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Openly Hostile Rant to Android Developers on Apps that Won't Shut Off or Stay Shut Off
You! That's right, You! The Android app developers.... I have a bone to pick with you......
What possible reason could there be for you to code your apps so that they switch on in the background when the phone is turned on and use up precious battery life?
Or, why would you code your apps to stay on after I, the user, have hit the back button because I no longer want your app to run?
I mean, REALLY!!! Yes, I own up to being a newbie Android user, and what I don't know could fill the Library of Congress. Still, this is common sense we're talking about here. I've done some industrial app development and Enter/Exit, On/Off are basic pieces of logic in the main loop of an program in any language.
The only reason that we phone users need task killer apps is because you developers insist on creating apps that don't know when the f**k to turn themselves off.
And, it seems to me like you, the app developers, are one of the main reason why these phones have such crappy battery life. I mean, my Samsung Instinct, as bad as it was, got 18 to 24 hours of life off of one charge. With the Hero, I'm lucky if I can get 10 hours, and that's even with configuring my email download to only three times per day!
This is not hard, people. You code the app to stay off until, I, the user, manually turn it on. AND, you also code it to turn off when I, the user, hit the back button.
Yes, I understand that there are certain apps that it is advantageous to keep running in the background. So, fine, make it so those keep running. BUT, there is no possible reason for apps like Flashlight, or BBC News, or Camera, or SprintTV to have to run all the time in the background!!
I am so tempted to just trash the lot of you. If I did, maybe I might not have as much functionality, but my teenager would be able to reach me late in the day because my phone battery would still have juice.
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Maybe you should read up on how Android actually works before you post a worthless rant.
Quoted for truth. OP, stop getting hysterical. That's not how processes running in the background of Android works. Yes, there are badly coded apps that can drain your battery by either keeping your screen on or constantly syncing. No, most don't do that. No, running processes don't "drain that precious battery life."
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeetakoyay
The only reason that we phone users need task killer apps is because you developers insist on creating apps that don't know when the f**k to turn themselves off.
You don't "need" task killers.
Quote:
I mean, my Samsung Instinct, as bad as it was, got 18 to 24 hours of life off of one charge. With the Hero, I'm lucky if I can get 10 hours, and that's even with configuring my email download to only three times per day!
That's nice. My N1, which has a screen and processor and GPU that consume battery faster than your Hero, can go on for 12 hours with 50% battery left.
I also hear that being condescending and insulting is a great way to get people to do what you're asking them to. Score!
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What possible reason could there be for you to code your apps so that they switch on in the background when the phone is turned on and use up precious battery life?
Not this dead horse again. Is there even anything left to beat?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeetakoyay
Yes, I own up to being a newbie Android user
That was obvious well before you stated it. Apps in the background do not use battery. Auto-killing apps that want to remain in the background, however, will.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeetakoyay
Still, this is common sense we're talking about here.
No, it's not. This is Android we're talking about. How it manages things is not "common sense" as demonstrated by countless n00bs.
Last edited by takeshi; June 29th, 2010 at 08:27 AM.
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not going to lie, sounds like he wants an iphone , you know something that cant do true multi-tasking; but still gets awful battery life (unless you turn off 3g)
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Well, there are some apps that keep turning on in my Moto Droid. Frankly, some of them I want off forever. There is no reason for them to be using the memory in my phone. Such as that stupid gallery. Or the corporate calendar. They don't need to be there at all. With all the stupid things using memory that turn them selves on, it slows my phone down when I use the apps I want to use. If I want the things running, I can turn them on.
And for preinstalled apps, if I could remove many of them that just are useless or I don't want, then I could put on apps I do want.
the amazon MP3 store is the one that bugs me the most...I downloaded a startup program to make sure it doesn't run at boot and/or turn off if it does start running. I don't use a task killer though, but that one does just bug me cuz I never use it nor do I want it on my phone to begin with.
Well, there are some apps that keep turning on in my Moto Droid. Frankly, some of them I want off forever. There is no reason for them to be using the memory in my phone. Such as that stupid gallery. Or the corporate calendar. They don't need to be there at all. With all the stupid things using memory that turn them selves on, it slows my phone down when I use the apps I want to use. If I want the things running, I can turn them on.
And for preinstalled apps, if I could remove many of them that just are useless or I don't want, then I could put on apps I do want.
Try Startup Auditor in the Market; it is very helpful for stopping some apps from starting.
I've had my phone since November and not once have I read anything anywhere that said I HAVE to download an app. Not once.
I happen to use a task killer (System Panel) and I kill everything running that I don't need and guess what? I regularly get 18-24 hours with moderate use. Your mileage may vary.
Most running processes don't use up battery life. They don't use CPU cycles. Good god, people are thick.
Most don't - some do. Using Startup Auditor, for example, I got my battery life from 4 hours to 10 hours. I don't have Moxier Mail, Sprint Navigation, etc. starting when I don't even use them or want them running.
You should be able to choose what apps are running on your phone. Saved state is nice and all, but sometimes you want to exit out of an app completely. I don't run apps on my computer if I know I won't need them for 2 or 3 days (or ever), so why should my phone be any different?
Quoted for truth. OP, stop getting hysterical. That's not how processes running in the background of Android works. Yes, there are badly coded apps that can drain your battery by either keeping your screen on or constantly syncing. No, most don't do that. No, running processes don't "drain that precious battery life."
You don't "need" task killers.
That's nice. My N1, which has a screen and processor and GPU that consume battery faster than your Hero, can go on for 12 hours with 50% battery left.
I also hear that being condescending and insulting is a great way to get people to do what you're asking them to. Score!
I will answer that now.
I've read few prints about the subject.
Others say you need a task killer to save battery and others say that if you knew how it works you would realize that you are mistaken.
And what's that? That the apps will open but when you need power the not so needed apps will automatically closed?
What a lot of rubbish.
PROVE: I run a little game and after a while it froze.
And I knew why!
Because of the apps opening for no reason.
So I run the killer, killed all the shit and the game continued for few more minutes until it froze again. Run the killer again and continued the game.
So for those who say that you don't need the task killers I disagree!!!!
You DO need the killers and the apps creators are idiots who expect the users to pay money for an app that won't leave the battery alone!!
If the apps stayed closed like in windows then this OS would be the best!
Unfortunately as I see it that's the only but BIG problem with android!!
Last edited by EarlyMon; May 1st, 2011 at 04:07 PM.
Reason: Invective removed
Most don't - some do. Using Startup Auditor, for example, I got my battery life from 4 hours to 10 hours. I don't have Moxier Mail, Sprint Navigation, etc. starting when I don't even use them or want them running.
You should be able to choose what apps are running on your phone. Saved state is nice and all, but sometimes you want to exit out of an app completely. I don't run apps on my computer if I know I won't need them for 2 or 3 days (or ever), so why should my phone be any different?
Do you run linux on your PC?
You are comparing windows memory management with linux...apples to oranges.
Killing a runaway task is sometimes needed - that's why the ability is built-in to Android Application management, you get to it via settings or a shortcut you can set.
Android is not like other operating systems. The apps are small and compact, and run in what we call the Dalvik Virtual Machine.
The apps do their heavy lifting by calling known, stable Linux services.
When you run a task killer, it's like a drug for the operating system - the more you do it, the more it needs it.
It severs the connection between the app and the services, confuses the Dalvik VM, and causes it to work harder.
Do it enough and your phone will end up needing a factory reset to untangle the Dalvik area.
Once apps are exited, they ought stop completely - if they don't it's the game's fault, not Android's - advise the game dev and request a fix for the problem.
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They don't always turn off. Especially the social ones. Doubletwist was forever turning itself on. If I want music, I'll buy it elsewhere and load it on the card. Since the carriers do make money if you use the app, are they just assuming that everyone wants movies or Facetwit?
Since you can't delete these apps, and they are really non-essential to communication like voice and text, could a carrier persuade a developer to have the app turn on randomly?
Last edited by zuben el genub; May 1st, 2011 at 04:56 PM.
Others say you need a task killer to save battery and others say that if you knew how it works you would realize that you are mistaken.
And what's that? That the apps will open but when you need power the not so needed apps will automatically closed?
What a lot of rubbish.
You've either misread or read faulty information. Background apps are not closed "when you need power". Power has nothing to do with it. Background apps do not use resources unless they're active in the background. That said, it is certainly possible to have active background apps that are using up resources that could be made available for foreground apps.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fytos
If the apps stayed closed like in windows then this OS would be the best
You clearly have no understanding of how Android works. Read again and rely on reputable resources such as the Google devs themselves. It's pointless to carry out discussions like this and it's precisely why there are endless task killer threads.
Mobile devices are not desktop devices and they should be designed to operate differently.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fytos
You DO need the killers and the apps creators are idiots who expect the users to pay money for an app that won't leave the battery alone!!
As always: tasker killers address symptoms, not problems. If you "need" a task killer then you're relying on a poorly coded app.
Battery life is an entirely separate topic. If you're relying on task killers to improve battery life then you're taking the wrong approach. It's not germane to this thread so refer to a battery life thread.
Last edited by takeshi; May 2nd, 2011 at 08:17 AM.
Have to say the OP has a point. All the reactions going on about learning how Android works and the subsequent (rather juvenile) "+1"s miss the point utterly. Users shouldn't have to understand how the system works - it just should. These are the sort of reactiins that mean that Android will suffer to truly hit mainstream.
I may use every app on my phone in the course of a day, I have golauncher, it has a task killer setting, there are so many references to apps that I ran, that I have to scroll up just to see them all! There has to be a better way to do things. In any case, task killers can screw up the phone, I use CPU tuner to configure my system to save the battery, and only use the task killer when I have to scroll.
Even holding a reference to an app, is too much, if you continually switch between apps, you will have a lot of them. The apps don't have to be actually running to eat up resources, if you use a lot of them. The developers should find a way to turn off their apps, just to give people a misguided peace of mind, even if it's not really needed, do it for the users!
Even holding a reference to an app, is too much, if you continually switch between apps, you will have a lot of them. The apps don't have to be actually running to eat up resources, if you use a lot of them. The developers should find a way to turn off their apps, just to give people a misguided peace of mind, even if it's not really needed, do it for the users!
Some do - some will give a dialog to quit the app, or it'll be under the Menu - there's quite a few of them, actually.
As you hit a memory limit, Android will close apps and ship them out of memory.
When you start managing Android like that, you're causing it to re-do its job control - and that will result in unnecessary processing.
If you use all of your apps all of the time, leaving the references parked the way Android allows and the devs foresaw will result in faster app starting and better overall efficiency.
Have to say the OP has a point. All the reactions going on about learning how Android works and the subsequent (rather juvenile) "+1"s miss the point utterly. Users shouldn't have to understand how the system works - it just should. These are the sort of reactiins that mean that Android will suffer to truly hit mainstream.
It does.
The OP is expecting a lot from a pocket PC that runs on a tiny little battery.
The phone works fine and the OP has no understanding of how it does so.
By the way, android phones have been slowly outselling iPhones for the last several months.
You point is moot.
When you have a chance, look at the battery and marvel that this tiny little nothing powers your portable computer.
And then read in the manual where it suggests leaving the phone plugged in whenever possible.
They don't always turn off. Especially the social ones. Doubletwist was forever turning itself on. If I want music, I'll buy it elsewhere and load it on the card. Since the carriers do make money if you use the app, are they just assuming that everyone wants movies or Facetwit?
Since you can't delete these apps, and they are really non-essential to communication like voice and text, could a carrier persuade a developer to have the app turn on randomly?
Yes.
That's why we root - to get rid of carrier apps, they're evil.
I say that because they are simply user apps that are tagged as system apps, meaning, you can't modify or delete them - unless you're rooted.
Just to explain a bit about what those apps are really doing when they look like they are turning themselves on all the time:
The Android OS has a list of "events" (called Intents) that it broadcasts when various things happen (such as Wi-Fi being enabled).
Apps are then allowed to "register" what's called a Broadcast Receiver to "listen" for the events.
When I say "listen" though, it's only in the metphorical sense, they dont do anything to actively listen or run. Instead, what happens is the Android OS will send out the event (called an Intent), and it will check a list of apps that have said they would like to be "woken up" and notified when that event occurs.
So in the example used above with doubleTwist, what is likely happening is that it registered for the WiFi-enabled Intent and is being woken up whenever your WiFi connects or re-connects.
This might seem like it could really use up resources, but in reality it doesnt. BroadcastReceivers are very simple tiny peices of code.
Going back to our doubleTwist example, what the code might look like:
Code:
if (WiFi==true)
{
checkToSeeIfMusicNeedsSyncing();
}
else
{
//shutdown
return;
}
And that's it. It would use probably something like 0.00001% of your battery.
But the features it enables, are almost limitless. It gives apps very good ways to help the user automate things, help be polite to a user and not use up their 3G connection, and so on and so fourth.
Now of course not all apps are polite, and the way Dalvik handles processes, threads and services can be pretty complicated for any non-programmer to follow. However, hopefully this explanation will at least shed some light on Broadcast Recievers.
Anyways, it might be time to add a new guide to my list and I'll see if I can explain all those things in simple terms.
The basic components are:
-Activities
-Services
-BroadcastRecivers
-Intents
-Processes
-Threads
And while 99% of the time a task killer will do more harm than good (especially in Froyo and above), I will admit that Google made a serious error with regards to user experience (UX) design in explaining this. From a new user perspective, it looks as if all apps are all behaving badly all the time (hence why we get these posts). While in reality, badly behaved apps are actually few and far between. But it can be hard to tell the difference.
Also a good thing for new users to be pointed towards is the "what's been using the battery" feature in Android.
Most running processes don't use up battery life. They don't use CPU cycles. Good god, people are thick.
I feel compelled to be "thick". When my Samsung Droid Charge running Gingerbread reports that an app I am NOT running (but quit - Pandora for example), is taking 5% of my battery and has been doing so for several hours, doesn't that mean it is "running" when it shouldn't be? I don't understand but it seems to me that if an app is using battery, it is also using CPU cycles - what don't I understand?
Thanks.
Madeline
I feel compelled to be "thick". When my Samsung Droid Charge running Gingerbread reports that an app I am NOT running (but quit - Pandora for example), is taking 5% of my battery and has been doing so for several hours, doesn't that mean it is "running" when it shouldn't be? I don't understand but it seems to me that if an app is using battery, it is also using CPU cycles - what don't I understand?
Thanks.
Madeline
Depends on where you look at it. I would assume that you were looking at the stock feature to see what apps are using up battery? Because if that shows Pandora as 5%, it doesn't mean that it is using up 5% of your battery. It means that it contributed to 5% of the used battery charge. For example, you see Pandora listed there as 10%, but you have only used up 20% of your total battery. That means Pandora used up 10% of the total battery used (equivalent to 2% of total battery used).
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Some apps do not have an exit button. If you only use the app maybe twice a month, that's rather egotistical to think that the app is that important.
There was a rather nice article written by someone from another Android forum about memory usage and task killers.
A reply to this noted that apps with large databases can cause problems with memory. I do have quite a few apps with large databases. Audubon for one, and astronomy for the other. I've noticed that they don't stop when exited at times. They don't get used like a messaging service or email does.
What's the sequence? for memory usage? I'm assuming the first thing Android will protect is system, then Google apps, after that, what?
I'd like to know as there are more apps in astronomy and nature guides I would like to buy. They all have huge databases.
I do use the task manager if I'm going to delete the app. Clear out data, force stop, and uninstall.
Android is not Windows. It will load the most used apps before you even call them, so they load up instantly when you open them.
They aren't using any battery at all, because they're frozen.
Task killers are evil, they do more harm then good.
I don't know who told you that they don't take battery, you probably think that they don't use any of the memory either!
Well ... I've read paragraphs on the subject from both sides. The ones that use killers and the ones that don't like abortions hahahahaha.
Let me tell you one thing ... when I did kill apps I could use some of the apps that without the use of the killers they would crash!
But that's only MY opinion.
I don't know who told you that they don't take battery, you probably think that they don't use any of the memory either!
Well ... I've read paragraphs on the subject from both sides. The ones that use killers and the ones that don't like abortions hahahahaha.
Let me tell you one thing ... when I did kill apps I could use some of the apps that without the use of the killers they would crash!
But that's only MY opinion.
They don't use any battery, because they're in a frozen state.
RAM is made to be used. Free ram = bad
And Android has it's own task killer, for emergency cases.
What's the sequence? for memory usage? I'm assuming the first thing Android will protect is system, then Google apps, after that, what?
Somebody with hands-on experience of writing Android apps, like alostpacket, will know for sure, but from memory it works the opposite way i.e. starts with the least-needed things like services with no running processes, then those with idle processes that aren't likely to be restarted, and so on.
I hope Alostpacket will chime in - that sounds awfully inefficient. It sounds like Audubon Birds would take precedence over messenging, and operating bits needed to get the phone to work.
I would like to find this out - if I have to start hunting for a new phone/tablet I'd rather have this info than how many themes and games it will run. I'd want the most efficient, not the sexiest.
Maybe you should read up on how Android actually works before you post a worthless rant.
The OP has a point though. Not everyone who owns a phone wants to become knowledgeable about its OS, just as most worker drones out there don't give a rat's a$$ about their Windows PC. All they wanna do is get stuff done. When I close my Excel app on my desktop, it CLOSES.
Android apps ought, unless they require background presence for some valid reason, have some option to automatically close completely when not being used. Personally, I find the "come back in where you left off" thing cumbersome in more instances than not. For example: when opening a Web browser, why must I see the page I last saw 6 hours ago? Why can't it start fresh... and not consume memory in the background for those six hours?
Actually, normal people wont even notice this happens until they start tinkering with task killer apps the idiots at cellphone shops keep pushing at them when they are buying their phones.
Actually, normal people wont even notice this happens until they start tinkering with task killer apps the idiots at cellphone shops keep pushing at them when they are buying their phones.
Not sure about that. I did a bit of a clean-up the past 24 hours, going through all my apps and emptying caches and closing etc. Phone sped up significantly. Yesterday it took like three minutes to boot; today, that was closer to 40 seconds.
RAM is dynamic. Sometimes an app needs only a few KB, other times it needs lotsa space to run properly. It can't have that if other apps are sitting in that space.
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They will run though, as the OS will clear out other unused apps to make room. And version by version, Android has been improved on memory usage. It may have warranted task killers in the past, but that need really died off around Gingerbread, janky apps notwithstanding. For those suspecting they have apps tying up their cpu (which is what causes lag, not RAM issues), there's always Watchdog Task Manager. It has user configurable profiles to alert you to when an app has crossed a threshold, with the option to kill it (at least in the pro version). This way, if there is an app that needs to be smacked down, you can target that one app without nuking the rest (which taxes your hardware to reopen, which burns battery).
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Most running processes don't use up battery life. They don't use CPU cycles. Good god, people are thick.
I found an LG phone's built-in useless Facebook app was certainly draining the battery in background. What was apparently happening the phone was online via 3G and the Facebook app was constantly trying to ping Facebook, which is not there, and it wouldn't take no for an answer. Only way I found to solve this was to root the phone and change the ROM.
I found an LG phone's built-in useless Facebook app was certainly draining the battery in background. What was apparently happening the phone was online via 3G and the Facebook app was constantly trying to ping Facebook, which is not there, and it wouldn't take no for an answer. Only way I found to solve this was to root the phone and change the ROM.
FB searching had TMO customers in an uproar about data usage. FB apparently isn't carrier, either. I bought 2 unlocked European phones, FB was included on both. One was Android, one was Symbian.
You can get a free app for FB - it doesn't need to be included on phone.
If you download from Market, you can at least check the permissions.
You can't do that if FB is built in.
I've also had apps that came with the phone turn on - and these apps needed registration to use them. I never registered, so app should not have run.
Openly Hostile Rant to Android Developers on Apps that Won't Shut Off or Stay Shut Off
