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Great. Just found this post on Android forums today.
As the owner of an original 1981 HP 12C, still working perfectly after 29 years, I'm very happy to hear about the HP 12C look alike calculator for Android with RPN functionality.
I will download it shortly.
And thanks to Ed Falk for being a developer who takes the time to monitor these forums and learn from the users (and potential users) of his app. Good on ya Ed!
I'll give running them across the top a try, see how it looks.
The other calculator apps have lots of space between the keys, whereas I ran the keys right next to each other to make them bigger. Do any users of the iPhone calculator apps have any comments on how the smaller keys are to use? I have to admit it looks better that way, but I'm worried about usability.
I guess it depends on where you want RPNCalc Pro to head. With the programming addition, I guess your heading for as close to 100% compatibility for a real HP-12C as you can get? I guess in that case making it look physically exactly the same as the real thing might be a benefit (case colours/key shape etc etc). Am not sure how technically the key press works, but I guess you could display the keys smaller, but still have a bigger "footprint" around them. Conversely if you wanted to keep the RPNCalc Pro "look" then maybe it doesn't matter so much.
At least one of the iphone developers has "lite" versions of the voyager based calcs that exclude programming, so I don't think its that confusing. They just have stepped pricing. I guess you'd then have 3 versions - RPNCalc to give a taste (free), RPNCalc Pro & perhaps RPNCalc Pro+ (w/programming).
I downloaded RPNcalcPro about a week ago. Love it. Just like my HP-12C calculator, with a few nice additions (more registers, screen feedback of what is in some registers, a backspace key, etc.)
My only feedback is that for my large fingers, and the display on a Motorola Cliq, 2.5" x 1.9" screen, the buttons are a little small. Or, more particularly to the problem, it is too easy to touch an adjacent button rather than the one you were aiming for.
From another frustrated Android user who can't buy apps on the Market - what about selling via Handango? The have a growing Android app base, and are quite easy to use. I have used them in the past for Pocket PC apps.
So, has there been any progress in selling outside of the Market? The inability to buy apps on the the Market is a major drawback to owning an Andorid phone.
Am a new HTC Eris owner, but a longtime 12C user, including, occasionally, the programming feature. Just downloaded your app, and oooh, I like it already!
Will be interesting to see Eds latest updates with programming etc. A month ago he was aiming for "within the month" so he might be close to an update!
biggest issue to me is how the add/subtract works (different than normal calculators). once you get used to it it is impossible to use a normal calculator.
Ya. My 11c spoiled me. I *cannot* use a four-banger without running the numbers two or three times to 'get it right.'
Will be interesting to see Eds latest updates with programming etc. A month ago he was aiming for "within the month" so he might be close to an update!
OK, progress update: programming mode works. I still need to add "save/load" functions for programs. Mostly it needs more testing -- it's always a bad idea to release a calculator with any bugs in it.
RPNCalcPro is a great app. Can you give us the ability to long press a key as an alternative to using the shift key? I appreciate the effort, Ed.
Adding long keypress for 'f' keys would be very easy to do. Problem is, the calculator has both 'f' and 'g' keys, and I don't think there would be any way to differentiate them with long press.
How many people would want this feature, and would you prefer 'f' or 'g'?
to Falk, re your earlier questions, i would prefer long press to relate to the f function and landscape mode, i am planning to get the new HTC desire and think this would be great on this slightly larger screen
For the last month, I've been running all the examples in the HP12 manual, and any time I find a difference in behavior, I have to stop, figure out why the difference was there, and fix it. Some of the differences have been devilishly subtle. For instance, some of the HP12 programs depend on the stack being only 4 levels, so I had to modify RpnCalcPro to have a 4-level stack while in run mode, but a 16-level stack in normal mode. There are also subtleties involving when stack lift is enabled and when the last-x value is stored. These things all make a difference.
So I had a thought this morning: If anybody would like to send me their favorite HP12 programs, along with instructions on running them, the inputs they expect, and the outputs they should generate, I'll try them out on RpnCalcPro and make sure they work as expected.
Anyway, it will be on the market Real Soon Now.
The Following User Says Thank You to falk For This Useful Post:
For the last month, I've been running all the examples in the HP12 manual, and any time I find a difference in behavior, I have to stop, figure out why the difference was there, and fix it. Some of the differences have been devilishly subtle. For instance, some of the HP12 programs depend on the stack being only 4 levels, so I had to modify RpnCalcPro to have a 4-level stack while in run mode, but a 16-level stack in normal mode. There are also subtleties involving when stack lift is enabled and when the last-x value is stored. These things all make a difference.
So I had a thought this morning: If anybody would like to send me their favorite HP12 programs, along with instructions on running them, the inputs they expect, and the outputs they should generate, I'll try them out on RpnCalcPro and make sure they work as expected.
Anyway, it will be on the market Real Soon Now.
Sounds great!
As an example Program, here is one from the hpmuseum forum. Don't ask me what it is (I have no idea), but it has the listing & expected results. Called the 'Lambert W' calculation.
If you follow the thread thru, the 3rd from bottom is the final version of it. Looks like a pretty complicated thing, so if it works you must have done something right!
The MacPorts version of Nonpareil still got them. It is not all that difficult to patch the 0.78 voyager code into 0.79 Nonpareil. I don't know what kind of license problems there where - once it's open source there is no point in kicking up a fuss any more.
Sadly the Macports version sometimes has display problems - unrelated from the patching done.
Martin
Last edited by krischik; April 8th, 2010 at 02:09 AM.
Reason: Spell checker made the post rather funny.
The MacPorts version of Nonpareil still got them. It is not all that difficult to patch the 0.78 voyager code into 0.79 Nonpareil. I don't know what kind of incense problems there where - there is no point in kicking up a fuss any more.
Sadly the Macports version sometimes has display problems - unrelated from the patching done.
Martin
I was able to find a 0.78 version that I was able to compile for ubuntu, so its great to be able to see it in action!
As an example Program, here is one from the hpmuseum forum. Don't ask me what it is (I have no idea), but it has the listing & expected results. Called the 'Lambert W' calculation.
I have a question: is that source code in some standard notation? It's not the "05 - 43 11" format an actual HP12 would display. Is there a reference for this notation anywhere?
I have a question: is that source code in some standard notation? It's not the "05 - 43 11" format an actual HP12 would display. Is there a reference for this notation anywhere?
The instructions are displayed as a step number, a hyphen, and then pairs of digits representing the row and column on the keyboard of each key pressed. So your example is the "g" key (row 4, column 3) followed by the "n" key (row 1, column 1) and results in the "12x" operation. The exception are the digit keys, which just show up as themselves. You'll find this in the Programming section of the owner's manual.
The usual format for listings are the keys themselves, e.g., "[STO] [3]" and "[g] [x<=y]" It might be useful to give your emulator a configuration item to display it the "authentic" way or the "human-readable" way.
If you ever do apps for the rest of the 10C family, I'd give certain unmentionable parts of my body for an 11C, 15C and 16C.
The instructions are displayed as a step number, a hyphen, and then pairs of digits representing the row and column on the keyboard..
Yeah, that's how the real HP12 displays it, but follow palmhead's link above. People on that forum are showing code like "06 ENTER" and "10 RCL 1", which is incredibly close to the format I was already using in RpnCalcPro.
I'm wondering if that's some sort of standard notation, in which case I'll use it myself.
Quote:
If you ever do apps for the rest of the 10C family, I'd give certain unmentionable parts of my body for an 11C, 15C and 16C.
--Mark
Yeah, I'd like to do a 15C next. Dunno about the 16C though; I used to have one and I hated it. The user interface was just not quite right.
I guess the notation is just something that makes sense when keying in proggies. The Programming section of the HP-12c manual kinda does the same thing by displaying the keystrokes, as well as what you'd see on the Hp-12c screen.
Looks like RPNCalc Pro has been released with programming! Looks great! Also has copy & pasting.
It basically is a full 12C now! :-)
Yep, we're live. If you downloaded 1.7, you should immediately upgrade because it used the wrong format for storing programs. You'll also need to install the OI File Manager to save and restore the programs.
Yep, we're live. If you downloaded 1.7, you should immediately upgrade because it used the wrong format for storing programs. You'll also need to install the OI File Manager to save and restore the programs.
Yep, we're live. If you downloaded 1.7, you should immediately upgrade because it used the wrong format for storing programs. You'll also need to install the OI File Manager to save and restore the programs.
Anyway, give me your feedback on the new calculator. Until it's had a little more testing, I'm not ready to call it hp12-compatible.
-ed falk
Having been thru this process making your original financial calc a "HP-12c" equivalent, do you think it would be easier making the scientific one a "HP-15c" like?
Having been thru this process making your original financial calc a "HP-12c" equivalent, do you think it would be easier making the scientific one a "HP-15c" like?
I'm giving it some thought. Because the hp15 can handle complex numbers, it means re-writing pretty much all the code. I was able to create the programmable calculator by building on top of the basic scientific calculator and build the financial calculator by building on top of that (love those object-oriented programming techniques.) I wouldn't be able to do that for the hp15. On the other hand, recycling the existing code for complex numbers won't be too hard.
I'll have to give it some thought. It's more likely that I'll tweak the existing calculator to give hp11 capabilities, and come back for hp15.
I'm hampered by the fact that to properly write an emulator, you absolutely must have an original device on hand to validate against. My hp15 was stolen years ago and they're selling for something like $250 on eBay.
I'm hampered by the fact that to properly write an emulator, you absolutely must have an original device on hand to validate against. My hp15 was stolen years ago and they're selling for something like $250 on eBay.
The HP15 from Nonpareil should do - as it is a microcode Emulator and should behave just like the original.
Martin
Last edited by krischik; April 17th, 2010 at 03:04 AM.
Reason: word missing
I'm giving it some thought. Because the hp15 can handle complex numbers, it means re-writing pretty much all the code. I was able to create the programmable calculator by building on top of the basic scientific calculator and build the financial calculator by building on top of that (love those object-oriented programming techniques.) I wouldn't be able to do that for the hp15. On the other hand, recycling the existing code for complex numbers won't be too hard.
I'll have to give it some thought. It's more likely that I'll tweak the existing calculator to give hp11 capabilities, and come back for hp15.
I'm hampered by the fact that to properly write an emulator, you absolutely must have an original device on hand to validate against. My hp15 was stolen years ago and they're selling for something like $250 on eBay.
Yeah going for the 11c first makes alot of sense. Especially since its replicating alot of the stuff you currently have in your own scientific calc, and using alot of the new stuff in the financial calc. OO does rock.
The nonpareil emulator is pretty awesome for "real" testing.
I really love this app. I really wish the interface was more visually like an HP12c. More photorealistic. I think a whole lot more people searching the market for RPN would see their old 12c in software form and snatch it up. It would also help me visually as the contrast between the buttons and the calc face is better on the real calc.
Just bought and downloaded RPN Calc Pro V1.7 and feel like a young man again. I've had the 12c since the late 80's; case chewed up, case scratched up but still works fine. Now I don't have to carry it with me everywhere I go.
Hi all; I'm the author of RpnCalcPro. It doesn't have the same layout as the HP12C (I intended to use it in portrait mode), but it has all the same functions except for programmability. It's $5 at present. More info at RpnCalc Pro
I've gotten some feedback from people asking that I make they layout exactly like an HP12 in landscape mode, so I'm working on it. It's a little tricky because an android screen is much smaller than a real HP12, so squeezing it all in is rather difficult. I have it working now for the Archos, and with a little tweaking, I can get it to fit on G1 and Droid. Look for the new layout soon.
Since I have a number of interested people here, I'd like to do a quick user survey:
Do you use the programming functionality of the HP12? I haven't seen a need to add it to the calculator app, but I might if there's a demand.
Do you find the HP12's n,i,PV,PMT,FV functions ambiguous? That is, do you have trouble knowing if the key will enter a value, or compute it? (I added a "Find" key to my calculator to remove the ambiguity, but maybe it's not needed.)
Also: the cash-flow calculations (Cf0, Cfi, etc.) Do you ever use these? Do you edit the stored values? Do you change the Ni values?
Other differences between the android app and the real thing: I have 20 memories, whereas I think the real one only has 10. The stack has 16 levels instead of 4. Statistics have their own registers rather than being stored in the main memory registers. I'm going to guess this doesn't cause anybody problems.
In general, I'm interested in whatever feedback you might have.
-ed falk
I definitely use the cash flow valuations for the calc, as well as the npv and irr functions. I also like using the n, i, pmt etc buttons for calculations! would love to see them! thanks
Can the area of the screen that responds to touch for a key be actually bigger than the graphic that represents the key? For example the area of the key graphic and the orange color alternate functions shown above the key could all be included in the screen area that activates the key press.
Please emulate the original HP 12C as closely as possible with ALL the features that the HP 12C has. The latest update as an iPhone app has added many new features which are great. I use the basic functions as well as the financial functions. I use the loan amortizaztion features of the 12C the most but I also use the cash flow, IRR, NPV features occassionally but they are definately important to me.
You've probably already looked that the latest Apple app. I consider the app to be superior to the actual calculator. Having to give up having the iPhone HP 12C app due to moving over to an Andriod phone is something I will miss a great deal.
I'll purchase your Android HP 12C app when, and if, you are able to emulate or improve on the HP 12C.
Moving away from the iPhone due to AT&T's bandwith issues in my Houston market.
Looks like another 12C app on the Market. MxCalc 12c. Its very expensive compared to other apps on the market.
Alot of 3gr's other android apps on the market are actually web apps, although this one at 1.70MB might actually be a genuine app. Can't really tell without buying it. The side effect of a webapp (amongst other things) is its dreadfully slow, which for a calculator makes the whole idea kinda pointless!?
Given the excellence of RPNCalc Pro, I'm not sure I'm going to buy it. Anyone had a look at it? Is it a real app & not a web app?
Device(s): Samsung Galaxy S GT-I9000 and Asus TF201 Prime w/ICS
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Don't want to hijack the thread....but I couldn't pass over the HP Emulator title.
I'm a long time HP and RPN fan and I'm wondering if anyone knows if there is an HP-41C, CV, or CX emulator for Android.
There is one for a PC, but I'd really like to have one on my SGS.
Is there one ???
Oh, by the way, programming mode is on the way. Look for it within the month. I'm thinking of selling two different versions, with programming and without. But maybe that will create too much confusion.
I have just found this forum. Great discusssion. I have been a HP12C addict since 1990 or so. I live in Canada and interest rates here are quoted as semi-annual compounding. We cannot use the "12./." function key but we have a programme that we can install in the 12C that allows us to just enter the annual interest rate, push R/S and it will convert to the correct monthly rate and automatically input that result into the "i" key. Obviously the programming feature will be very attractive to Canadian 12C users.
Hi all; I just thought I'd check in with an update. The calculator is now called RpnCalc Financial and the documentation is at RpnCalc Financial.
You'll find it to be completely compatible with the classic HP12. Currently, it supports all the functions of an HP 12C and is fully programmable. If you install OI File Manager, you can also save and restore programs. In fact, the programs are hand-editable if you like. Just copy them from sdcard, modify them, and put them back.
It's the top-rated financial calculator on the Android Market. In fact, go to the finance applications and you'll find it there on the first page.
Thanks to everybody for their requests and feedback while it was under development.
For all you HP calculator veterans, check out the newly launched ClassicRPN and suite of HP calculators. Professional and classey. RPN-12C - Android Apps and Tests - AndroidPIT $6.99
Hp 12c
Nonpareil
- They contain nothing Mac specific.
