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Old August 20th, 2010, 12:15 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Google data collection - can we fight it?

It shouldn't matter whether you have anything to hide, it just really creeped me out when I learned that search engines like Google record your every move, collect it into permanent, and highly personal files on all who use them, and then sell this information to targeted ad-producing slimeballs. This is why one the first things I did with Google Dolphin was to change my homepage from google.com to https://ssl.scroogle.org/. This site searches Google, and returns the same results, without revealing to Google YOUR actual IP address!

Now Google cannot use it's search engine to spy on me when I use Dolphin, but then I wondered if Dolphin has programming in it which can still phone home your searching habits to Google, even while you are using a different search engine! I would think that most tracking cookies are capable of this - does anybody have any first-hand knowledge?

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Old August 20th, 2010, 12:18 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I personally don't care if they know what I like, you know this happens with more than just Google. Companies like Walmart collect lots of data about you as well.
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Old August 20th, 2010, 12:23 PM   #3 (permalink)
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They don't collect who you are, just your general location and search habits. Eventually (I hope) they will actually be able to target ads that actually interest us, like for me I might care about a new tech magazine, new game releases, or an nvidia discount promo. I wouldn't care about Make-up, clothes, etc. This saves companies wasted advertising money and saves us from seeing crap we don't care about or want to see.

I've been using google services almost exclusively for the past 2 years and honestly have been really pleased with their services and trust them 100%.

If I live in Upstate NY (which I do) and watch Trans Siberian Orchestra on youtube a lot (which I do) and Google can pop up an ad somewhere showing that they are coming to Syracuse this winter (which they are) and give me a link to buy tickets (which I would) then hell yeah, they can monitor me all they want, haha..
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Old August 20th, 2010, 12:49 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Seems like everybody these days are collecting SOMETHING about you. It's the wave of the future. No more privacy. It's coming. It's here.

Sounds like a "dooms-dayer" don't it? Which I'm NOT.
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Old August 20th, 2010, 12:58 PM   #5 (permalink)
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It shouldn't matter whether you have anything to hide...
Thank you so much for saying that. I'm about sick of the argument that if one has nothing to hide, then having our information collected shouldn't be an issue. Or that people who don't have anything to hide but don't want their info collected are being paranoid or conspiracy theorist crazies.

Personally, I could care less about Google gathering my search habits for targeting adds, though I wish they'd share some of that revenue with me that they get from selling the data to other companies. As long as it stops with that. But there's the rub; it won't stop with just that and anyone who thinks otherwise is just fooling themselves.

Now, here's where I get to sound a little conspiracy theorist. Take for example you post on Facebook about having pneumonia. A few years later, you're looking for health insurance. Hold up, they may have found a preexisting condition... Ah, but that's alright, Obama's healthcare guarantees you insurance, right? ;-)

Okay, you're job hunting. Your potential employer pulls up your computer habits. "Hmmmm, looks like you spend a lot of time on this site called Android Forums. During the hours you're applying for. Yeah, don't call us, we'll call you."

Oh look, you blogged about your son's 8th grade field trip to Gettysburg! "Isn't that where patient Zero in the zombie apocalypse was from? And you Googled "biting fetish" back in 2013? Hell no, you can't enter the safe zone!"

Okay, silly examples, but still. Just a little bit of seemingly benign information collection can easily get out of control. But hey, you have nothing to hide.

Right?
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Old August 20th, 2010, 01:22 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Honestly, if it's that big of a deal, unsync your google account and stop using google services. No one is forcing you to use Google.
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Old August 20th, 2010, 01:28 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Honestly, if it's that big of a deal, unsync your google account and stop using google services. No one is forcing you to use Google.
agreed, if you do not like how google makes money then why on earth would you buy a phone with their software and rely on their services? as a consumer that's how you make your stand, stop buying from companies that do business in a way you do not like.

I'm sure apple, microsoft, palm, yahoo, bing etc would love to take your money too, there are alternatives.
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Old August 20th, 2010, 01:59 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Thank you so much for saying that. I'm about sick of the argument that if one has nothing to hide, then having our information collected shouldn't be an issue. Or that people who don't have anything to hide but don't want their info collected are being paranoid or conspiracy theorist crazies.

Personally, I could care less about Google gathering my search habits for targeting adds, though I wish they'd share some of that revenue with me that they get from selling the data to other companies. As long as it stops with that. But there's the rub; it won't stop with just that and anyone who thinks otherwise is just fooling themselves.

Now, here's where I get to sound a little conspiracy theorist. Take for example you post on Facebook about having pneumonia. A few years later, you're looking for health insurance. Hold up, they may have found a preexisting condition... Ah, but that's alright, Obama's healthcare guarantees you insurance, right? ;-)

Okay, you're job hunting. Your potential employer pulls up your computer habits. "Hmmmm, looks like you spend a lot of time on this site called Android Forums. During the hours you're applying for. Yeah, don't call us, we'll call you."

Oh look, you blogged about your son's 8th grade field trip to Gettysburg! "Isn't that where patient Zero in the zombie apocalypse was from? And you Googled "biting fetish" back in 2013? Hell no, you can't enter the safe zone!"

Okay, silly examples, but still. Just a little bit of seemingly benign information collection can easily get out of control. But hey, you have nothing to hide.

Right?
The information Google collects is completely anonymous, but "conspiracy theorists" like to make everyone thing that this is a huge problem, and our privacy is being compromised when it's doing the exact opposite. A lot of the technology being used to collect this type of data is, in fact, being used to protect our privacy. Being a web developer and having lots of experience with this type of technology, there is nothing to worry about when it comes to the data Google collects about or search habits. Plus, it's required by law that this technology also allow the user to disable collection of this data. Personally, I think this type of data collection is great. As someone posted earlier in this thread, Google products are a blast to use, and search has only become more accurate and usable over the last decade.

That being said, the examples you listed are exactly what you said, silly. All but one of those examples have to do with information you are voluntarily posting on the internet. There's a rule I go by with the web, and that's if you don't want certain information public, don't post it on the internet, period. If you don't trust privacy settings in your websites, blogs, or Facebook, then why do you put information on there?

Lastly, I'm not sure how a potential employer would discover our computer habits, but maybe I misunderstood your example.

*edit*
It's also a good idea to educate yourself about the reasons behind this, and what information is collected before making judgments on it. http://www.google.com/privacy.html
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Old August 20th, 2010, 07:48 PM   #9 (permalink)
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The more I post here, and the more posts I read here, the more I become sure that the Android community is one of ignoramuses and babies! When somebody posts a question asking for any positive solutions regarding an issue which he clearly indicates is an issue which for him matters, you should answer only if you think you have one!
#1 - It's about respect - if you want to be treated with respect, you need to give it!
#2 - It's about staying on topic - when the question is technical in nature, then the topic is not about anybody's busniness philosophy on the subject, even when the OP indicates he is unhappy with the business policies which are in play.
#3 - For all you Facebook and Twitter addicts, read Jessie's response - he said what I didn't have time to get into, mistakenly thinking that most of this crowd would have understood already why every sensible person should be concerned with how Google's business policies could damage their lives! Well, if it isn't cognitive, then maybe I wouldn't have to be too paranoid in presuming there are a few Google employees on snark-patrol in a forum like this!

Anyway, GOOGLE-DROID - the question was whether there is any part of Dolphin, or any other part of Android which in any way phones my tracks home for any commercial exploits? What I did not ask is just how personal it is (or not) - as Marlon Brando said in the Godfather "in business, eveything is personal!".
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Old August 20th, 2010, 08:00 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Time for the Tin Foil hats....




on a serious note, they only record you Ip location, nothing personal about you or your computer
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Old August 20th, 2010, 08:03 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Yo, Squintz, if you are a web developer, and you think Google tracking is great, well that isn't surprising. But you also said that this spying is used to "protect our privacy"? Would you care to elaborate on that claim?
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Old August 20th, 2010, 08:04 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I could care less what Google saves, sounds like some of you have something to hide
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Old August 20th, 2010, 08:09 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Time for the Tin Foil hats....




on a serious note, they only record you Ip location, nothing personal about you or your computer
On a funny note, I don't know what in hell those hats are supposed to be good for - but every single IP address has an account, name and address behind it, so what's your point that it only records the IP? Would it hurt too much for you to uphold intellectual honesty a little more on the implied notion that nobody ever does what they aren't supposed to do with the info which they could so easily get their hands on?
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Old August 20th, 2010, 08:17 PM   #14 (permalink)
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On a funny note, I don't know what in hell those hats are supposed to be good for - but every single IP address has an account, name and address behind it, so what's your point that it only records the IP? Would it hurt too much for you to uphold intellectual honesty a little more on the implied notion that nobody ever does what they aren't supposed to do with the info which they could so easily get their hands on?
I use to work as a web-host and yes every IP has a account behind it, but to be honest 99% of the time its the company/ISP of the clients IP, and you just DHCP into it, therefore if you trace an IP using most of the tools online and offline possible, you only get a rough location, and the details on the ISP the person is currently connected too...

With the cellphones, via Verizon, everytime you turn off yoru Mobile network and turn it back on its picks up a Different IP via the DHCP method, like write now I'm sat in Seattle WA, but my IP tells me i'm in connected in UTAH...

Normally I get Seattle, Portland, area IP but now and then It give's me from east coast or places like AZ, UT etc...

My point being I wouldn't worry too much about what Google records, as none of it is Personal Data from your life or your computer.

Yes in the right hand of a absolute genius they might be able to get some info, but I would be shocked if they got anything useful, unless of course your computer has be violated and has malware etc.. on it.
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Old August 20th, 2010, 08:17 PM   #15 (permalink)
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On a funny note, I don't know what in hell those hats are supposed to be good for - but every single IP address has an account, name and address behind it, so what's your point that it only records the IP? Would it hurt too much for you to uphold intellectual honesty a little more on the implied notion that nobody ever does what they aren't supposed to do with the info which they could so easily get their hands on?
Every time you visit a website, it records your IP address in its logs. And unless you're doing something illegal with your phone to an extent they would subpoena the records, it's meaningless that it's "tied to an account" (which, in reality, is moot to Google or anyone else since you get a new IP address every time you reconnect to 3G).

And just so you can sleep well at night:
Major Corporations Are Downloading Those 100 Million Facebook Profiles off BitTorrent
Google CEO Eric Schmidt Advises You Change Your Name To Escape Online Shame
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Old August 20th, 2010, 08:18 PM   #16 (permalink)
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agreed, if you do not like how google makes money then why on earth would you buy a phone with their software and rely on their services? as a consumer that's how you make your stand, stop buying from companies that do business in a way you do not like.

I'm sure apple, microsoft, palm, yahoo, bing etc would love to take your money too, there are alternatives.
More of the Google-Is-God-On-Snark-Patrol mentality!

The basic reasons that business needs to be regulated, and then needs to be much, much more tightly than they are:
#1 - When one business makes, and controls too much money, they become either impossible for most consumers to avoid, or they all (all 2 or 3 of them) become unacceptably hostile for most consumers.
#2 - September of 2008!
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Old August 20th, 2010, 08:25 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Every time you visit a website, it records your IP address in its logs. And unless you're doing something illegal with your phone to an extent they would subpoena the records, it's meaningless that it's "tied to an account" (which, in reality, is moot to Google or anyone else since you get a new IP address every time you reconnect to 3G).

And just so you can sleep well at night:
Major Corporations Are Downloading Those 100 Million Facebook Profiles off BitTorrent
Google CEO Eric Schmidt Advises You Change Your Name To Escape Online Shame
"Unless you're doing something illegal, it's meaningless" - right!!!
You are pitching the code of law, when I am asking for a discussion which is rooted in realism. Have you not the slightest clue what it took to bring down Wall Street in 2008? Are you not aware that there were enough business regs to fill at least a decent-sized library, and that powerful people still violated them? Laws don't protect anyone, only a lot of money can do that!

That 3G provides a dynamic IP (which I know my home broadband service does not), is an interesting bit which I wasn't aware of. If it's true, then how is Google able to collect your data anyway? The option to turn the data collection off can't be for imaginary purposes!
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Old August 20th, 2010, 08:27 PM   #18 (permalink)
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"Unless you're doing something illegal, it's meaningless" - right!!!
You are pitching the code of law, when I am asking for a discussion which is rooted in realism. Have you not the slightest clue what it took to bring down Wall Street in 2008? Are you not aware that there were enough business regs to fill at least a decent-sized library, and that powerful people still violated them? Laws don't protect anyone, only a lot of money can do that!
Except that this isn't anything new. Servers have always kept logs and tracking cookies have been around forever.

Also
http://www.google.com/support/forum/p/android/thread?tid=007ac6ba1f1c5fd6&hl=en
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Old August 20th, 2010, 08:38 PM   #19 (permalink)
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"Unless you're doing something illegal, it's meaningless" - right!!!
You are pitching the code of law, when I am asking for a discussion which is rooted in realism. Have you not the slightest clue what it took to bring down Wall Street in 2008? Are you not aware that there were enough business regs to fill at least a decent-sized library, and that powerful people still violated them? Laws don't protect anyone, only a lot of money can do that!

That 3G provides a dynamic IP (which I know my home broadband service does not), is an interesting bit which I wasn't aware of. If it's true, then how is Google able to collect your data anyway? The option to turn the data collection off can't be for imaginary purposes!
Which home broadband service are you on? As 99% of Cable, DSL ISP company work of DHCP IP's unless you ask for a Static IP, but there is usually an extra fee for this.
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Old August 20th, 2010, 08:43 PM   #20 (permalink)
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I use to work as a web-host and yes every IP has a account behind it, but to be honest 99% of the time its the company/ISP of the clients IP, and you just DHCP into it, therefore if you trace an IP using most of the tools online and offline possible, you only get a rough location, and the details on the ISP the person is currently connected too...

With the cellphones, via Verizon, everytime you turn off yoru Mobile network and turn it back on its picks up a Different IP via the DHCP method, like write now I'm sat in Seattle WA, but my IP tells me i'm in connected in UTAH...

Normally I get Seattle, Portland, area IP but now and then It give's me from east coast or places like AZ, UT etc...

My point being I wouldn't worry too much about what Google records, as none of it is Personal Data from your life or your computer.

Yes in the right hand of a absolute genius they might be able to get some info, but I would be shocked if they got anything useful, unless of course your computer has be violated and has malware etc.. on it.
Company networks aren't so likely to be used by anyone owning a home account, especially when sensitive information is being exchanged, and if I understand this correctly, my RoadRunner IP is unique from my neighbor's RoadRunner IP, and they never change.

As for any dynamism with a phone system, there are some people (yours truly) who cannot afford the landline too, and never saw a need for it until recently, so they never shut their phones off. Running the reboot process several times a day likely eat as much power as just leaving it on, but anyway...

On the facts - does Dolphin or Android, without the use of the Google search engine, actually record and send home your tracks?
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Old August 20th, 2010, 08:49 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Which home broadband service are you on? As 99% of Cable, DSL ISP company work of DHCP IP's unless you ask for a Static IP, but there is usually an extra fee for this.
RoadRunner.

Alright, I can't pretend that I know, but I know that forum operators can pretty effectively ban users based on their IP, which would make just about any manner of law enforcement easier if they were static. Therefore, it's surprising to hear that one would pay less for dynamic, or that most home users would even be offered that.
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Old August 20th, 2010, 08:55 PM   #22 (permalink)
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RoadRunner.

Alright, I can't pretend that I know, but I know that forum operators can pretty effectively ban users based on their IP, which would make just about any manner of law enforcement easier if they were static. Therefore, it's surprising to hear that one would pay less for dynamic, or that most home users would even be offered that.
Nah, law enforcement can subpoena the records of who had which IP at a given time.

Occasionally, the IP address is based on the MAC address so people don't think it's dynamic.
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Old August 20th, 2010, 08:58 PM   #23 (permalink)
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RoadRunner.

Alright, I can't pretend that I know, but I know that forum operators can pretty effectively ban users based on their IP, which would make just about any manner of law enforcement easier if they were static. Therefore, it's surprising to hear that one would pay less for dynamic, or that most home users would even be offered that.
Well I checked out Roadrunners site, and looks to me like they still use DHCP Dynamic IP's but yes if you leave you modem on, it stays the same, but if you ever reboot you modem and its off for more then around 2-5 mins of time before you power t back, you will get a new IP, and yes it will be different to you neighbors, but normally those IP just get recycled to other clients.

As for whether or not dolphin or android can collect data about your where abouts, i'm pretty sure all android phones and even those nasty Iphones can do this... Im really not sure what your worried about, its not like its recording any private data...

Why are you so worried?
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Old August 20th, 2010, 09:03 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Nah, law enforcement can subpoena the records of who had which IP at a given time.

Occasionally, the IP address is based on the MAC address so people don't think it's dynamic.
Alright, then it doesn't really seem as if my data is really all that useful, and still Google uses it somehow. I used to see ads so specifically titled that they not only knew what town I live in, but addressed me by my first name, so... And then somebody said the data collected is used to protect us, and he probably had 911 service in mind, but we don't need Google's involvement in that, do we?
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Old August 20th, 2010, 09:11 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Alright, then it doesn't really seem as if my data is really all that useful, and still Google uses it somehow. I used to see ads so specifically titled that they not only knew what town I live in, but addressed me by my first name, so... And then somebody said the data collected is used to protect us, and he probably had 911 service in mind, but we don't need Google's involvement in that, do we?
As far as I know, Google can only direct your name in their adverts if you are signed into your Google account...

I'm not sure how they use it to protect us, probably to make sure people aren't researching how to kill a president and such lol...

But what they do use it for is the the advertisement, thats a big part of what Google is, and its a great way to get certain adverts out to certain people at certain places.. Myself I don't see whats wrong with this.

But mainly don;t worry about it, its all non privatized data and nothing can tell a person who exactly who you are if they get hold of it, most they will find out id what ISP your on and what county/state server you are connecting to. After that they would have to attempt to get data from your ISP, which by the way knows everything about you as you told them when you signed up, the list could go on, but best not to worry about it, as its not a problem.
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Old August 20th, 2010, 09:34 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Except that this isn't anything new. Servers have always kept logs and tracking cookies have been around forever.

Also
Opt-out of data collection by Google on my handset? - Android Help
Hoo-boy, tracking cookies have been around forever? Even if they were, then that would make them OK, son? I remember a world with no computers in any houses. I will never forget the shock when the world's first malicious virus attack was reported. The internet was still just a dream, and when it finally launched after a decade and a half of data dissemination through bendy floppy disks which were bigger than CDs, each with a total capacity of 360K, commerce had absolutely nothing to do with it's beginnings! It was at least five, close to 10 years later that we first started hearing about cookies, and saw targeted ads. Maybe this just had to happen, but if you weren't there, you wouldn't understand the feeling of something good having been lost. Then again, I suppose you wonder how I could remember all this, and not be too old to worry about my own future!
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Old August 20th, 2010, 10:11 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Hoo-boy, tracking cookies have been around forever? Even if they were, then that would make them OK, son? I remember a world with no computers in any houses. I will never forget the shock when the world's first malicious virus attack was reported. The internet was still just a dream, and when it finally launched after a decade and a half of data dissemination through bendy floppy disks which were bigger than CDs, each with a total capacity of 360K, commerce had absolutely nothing to do with it's beginnings! It was at least five, close to 10 years later that we first started hearing about cookies, and saw targeted ads. Maybe this just had to happen, but if you weren't there, you wouldn't understand the feeling of something good having been lost. Then again, I suppose you wonder how I could remember all this, and not be too old to worry about my own future!
First of all, pulling the age card will do you no good. Do not refer to another human being as "son" unless they are related to you. It is disrespectful and condescending. There are also plenty of people who visit this forum that likely can match or beat the value of your age card.

Secondly, "Cookies" have been around since 1995, which easily qualifies them as "old hat" in terms of the Internet and mass consumption.

Thirdly, and most important : YOU HAVE A CHOICE. If you feel that your life, and the information revolving around it, are so important that the details of the aforementioned need to be safe and secure, then, by all means, stop opening yourself up to everyone. It is COMMON KNOWLEDGE that information about your browsing habits will be aggregated in an effort to refine a multitude of things ranging from simple searches to purchasing habits. The sacrifice of this freedom grants you the bounty that the Internet has to offer.

TLDR : Shit, or get off the pot.
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Old August 20th, 2010, 10:21 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Someone has a bug up their butt about Google and they found a place to grind their personal axe. Bravo.

How has this thread survived in the Inc forum? Isn't there a general Android or "I want something for nothing" forum where it can be moved?

If anyone is surprised that Google collects data as a part of their business model, then they aren't paying attention.
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Old August 20th, 2010, 10:36 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Since this is more of a general topic I'm going to move it to the Android Lounge.
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Old August 20th, 2010, 11:56 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Yo, Squintz, if you are a web developer, and you think Google tracking is great, well that isn't surprising. But you also said that this spying is used to "protect our privacy"? Would you care to elaborate on that claim?
What I said is that similar technology is used in privacy protection efforts. No one is "spying" on you, but from the tone if your posts, it sounds like you have something to hide. Again, read the google privacy policy... or the privacy policy of any website you surf. As a matter of fact, this very website its collecting pretty much the same data from you right now, lol. So just relax
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Old August 21st, 2010, 02:46 AM   #31 (permalink)
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When I search Google, the only thing they are "spying" is what I type to search dialog (to offer relevant searches, which helps mostly).
The only "spy" thing on Android Phone is collecting data when Wi-Fi positioning is turned on (this can be avoided by using GPS). I think this data are used to determine your position by comparing (and some calculations) nearby Wi-Fi APs, there's not other way how to do it. Many phones do it.
Of course, if you use Google, cookies are collected. Have you ever acessed other websites? Most webs collect more informations (mostly in Flashcookies or Silverlightcookies, which are not so easy to delete) than Google.
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Old August 21st, 2010, 02:51 AM   #32 (permalink)
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I think its really pointless to collect my search data to target ads..
almost everything I search is android related or p90x since I am doing that right now
So everytime I see an ad now it is to buy an android phone or p90x dvds...
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Old August 21st, 2010, 08:56 AM   #33 (permalink)
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First of all, pulling the age card will do you no good. Do not refer to another human being as "son" unless they are related to you. It is disrespectful and condescending. There are also plenty of people who visit this forum that likely can match or beat the value of your age card.

Secondly, "Cookies" have been around since 1995, which easily qualifies them as "old hat" in terms of the Internet and mass consumption.
Well, exCUUUUZZZe me, sensei sir - from one new member to another!!!

Using the word "son" would have been out of line without the "forever" card having gone into play, and then none of my involvement in this forum has done me much good. In a world where people are duped into believing that some weak card, such as the 3 is powerful, so it is with "forever"! When somebody vindicates something which is controversial (or just plain foul) on the notion that it's been around "forever" (that being long as a kid can remember), this reflects a very immature attitude. It needs to be addressed, in the interest of the future direction of this world, which we all must live in!

Oh, by the way, son, "since 1995" is not anywhere close to "forever"!

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Thirdly, and most important : YOU HAVE A CHOICE. If you feel that your life, and the information revolving around it, are so important that the details of the aforementioned need to be safe and secure, then, by all means, stop opening yourself up to everyone. It is COMMON KNOWLEDGE that information about your browsing habits will be aggregated in an effort to refine a multitude of things ranging from simple searches to purchasing habits. The sacrifice of this freedom grants you the bounty that the Internet has to offer.
That is just simple, unadulterated bullshit, and you know it! The average consumer knows what he wants, would sacrifice nothing other than the cost of his user account for the benefits which the Internet has to offer, and the only people who are poised to reap any "bounty" are the Google executives!

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TLDR : Shit, or get off the pot.
That is just plain disgusting!

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Someone has a bug up their butt about Google and they found a place to grind their personal axe. Bravo.<br />
<br />
How has this thread survived in the Inc forum? Isn't there a general Android or "I want something for nothing" forum where it can be moved?<br />
<br />
If anyone is surprised that Google collects data as a part of their business model, then they aren't paying attention.
Hey, lookie here, we got somebody with a bug up their ass against those who care more about a future NOT ruled completely by Google than Google's profits!
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Old August 21st, 2010, 09:29 AM   #34 (permalink)
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If you think that trolling in an Android forum will change Google's business practices, then knock yourself out.

It is easy to avoid Google if you are so inclined.
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Old August 21st, 2010, 09:51 AM   #35 (permalink)
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I dont care what info google gather.

I dont click adds i know what i want and how to get it and if by chance an interesting ad does pop up thats fine.

Android wouldnt be free if Google didnt make a business of collecting information.
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Old August 21st, 2010, 12:19 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Well, exCUUUUZZZe me, sensei sir - from one new member to another!!!

Using the word "son" would have been out of line without the "forever" card having gone into play, and then none of my involvement in this forum has done me much good. In a world where people are duped into believing that some weak card, such as the 3 is powerful, so it is with "forever"! When somebody vindicates something which is controversial (or just plain foul) on the notion that it's been around "forever" (that being long as a kid can remember), this reflects a very immature attitude. It needs to be addressed, in the interest of the future direction of this world, which we all must live in!

Oh, by the way, son, "since 1995" is not anywhere close to "forever"!



That is just simple, unadulterated bullshit, and you know it! The average consumer knows what he wants, would sacrifice nothing other than the cost of his user account for the benefits which the Internet has to offer, and the only people who are poised to reap any "bounty" are the Google executives!


That is just plain disgusting!



Hey, lookie here, we got somebody with a bug up their ass against those who care more about a future NOT ruled completely by Google than Google's profits!


Ok now your just being a jerk, I suggest you unplug your internet cable from your computer wrap it around the monitor, now power off your computer and sit everything in a round garbage can big enough. Then light it on fire and dance round naked....

After this don't ever go online again, as you seem to scared to be doing so, Tape up your windows and doors and live in your dream world of safe and security

But serious stop effing trolling now, this is getting ridiculous, if you think Google is the devil, tell them, A android phone board is probably not the best place...

Have a nice day
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Old August 21st, 2010, 01:27 PM   #37 (permalink)
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OP - no one's holding a gun to your head and telling you to use it. If you're paranoid about it then don't use it.

Simple answer.
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Old August 21st, 2010, 06:18 PM   #38 (permalink)
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If you're paranoid about it then don't use it.
This.

I'll also take this opportunity to remind everyone of the Forum Rules prohibiting disrespectful posts and personal attacks. Keep it clean and keep it civil, please.
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Old August 21st, 2010, 09:10 PM   #39 (permalink)
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It shouldn't matter whether you have anything to hide, .......................................search engines like Google record your every move, collect it into permanent, and highly personal files on all who use them, a........................
You are exactly correct. It saddens me to read all the replies that told you that your fears are without merit.

Seems that people such as yourself are in the vast minority of people, such as myself, that value privacy. Most people are brainwashed into just accepting that privacy does not exist. I find it funny that most of these same people uphold one of their pet laws, abortion, thru an argument that people have a fundamental right to privacy but get off that topic and they throw the right to privacy our the window.

A question to all, U.S. citizens, that say "if you've nothing to hide you've nothing to worry about", do you believe and would you exercise your 5th Amendment rights? Also, do you believe that Roe vs Wade was correct in its premise of privacy rights?
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Old August 21st, 2010, 09:33 PM   #40 (permalink)
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More of the Google-Is-God-On-Snark-Patrol mentality!

The basic reasons that business needs to be regulated, and then needs to be much, much more tightly than they are:
#1 - When one business makes, and controls too much money, they become either impossible for most consumers to avoid, or they all (all 2 or 3 of them) become unacceptably hostile for most consumers.
#2 - September of 2008!
So you want them regulated by who? The government? I'm patrolling for Google? Dude your going on ignore, you call android users ignorant, you obviously have an issue with Google but you use their services, and buy products using their software. Your like the people who complain about Walmart, want them to change their practices but shop their for everything.
I told you how to fight it, don't use/buy it, doesn't get any simpler.
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Old August 21st, 2010, 10:36 PM   #41 (permalink)
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You are exactly correct. It saddens me to read all the replies that told you that your fears are without merit.

Seems that people such as yourself are in the vast minority of people, such as myself, that value privacy. Most people are brainwashed into just accepting that privacy does not exist. I find it funny that most of these same people uphold one of their pet laws, abortion, thru an argument that people have a fundamental right to privacy but get off that topic and they throw the right to privacy our the window.

A question to all, U.S. citizens, that say "if you've nothing to hide you've nothing to worry about", do you believe and would you exercise your 5th Amendment rights? Also, do you believe that Roe vs Wade was correct in its premise of privacy rights?
I'm not here to say "you have nothing to worry about". It is very true that if that personal data is used incorrectly in the wrong hands, it can have very serious side effects.

However, you would have to take many measures to finding true privacy on the internet. Browse through a proxy (sort of iffy, since the proxy could log your info), never create an account for any site, create your own email server and etc. And data collection is something companies do, and is not exclusive to Google (but you probably already knew that). They generally use it to help the customer, or to help themselves by analyzing that info.

Sure its something I care about, and is sometimes troubling. But if I kept fretting over what Amazon would do with me buying a Linksys router a month ago, or that Wells Fargo knows I went to Burger King for lunch, it would surely drive me insane.
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Old August 22nd, 2010, 02:31 AM   #42 (permalink)
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You are exactly correct. It saddens me to read all the replies that told you that your fears are without merit.

Seems that people such as yourself are in the vast minority of people, such as myself, that value privacy. Most people are brainwashed into just accepting that privacy does not exist. I find it funny that most of these same people uphold one of their pet laws, abortion, thru an argument that people have a fundamental right to privacy but get off that topic and they throw the right to privacy our the window.

A question to all, U.S. citizens, that say "if you've nothing to hide you've nothing to worry about", do you believe and would you exercise your 5th Amendment rights? Also, do you believe that Roe vs Wade was correct in its premise of privacy rights?
I have to say that privacy on the internet died the day it was born. I don't really see how abortion issues relate to Google data collection. Abortion is deeply personal choice created by circumstances possibly beyond your control whereas the internet is by choice. Just because the technology has become ubiquitous doesn't mean you have to use it. It has already been posted by others that virtually every site you visit grabs a bit of data (personal or otherwise). My 5th amendment right pertains to me being accused of a crime, not looking up information. The general consensus around here is if you don't feel comfortable with it, don't use it. There are a lot of older folks, senior citizen range, that won't even use a computer because they can't understand, don't understand, or don't trust it and they get by just fine in this world (and are also the primary targets of scams and identity theft). In an ironic twist, if you want to prevent sites from mining data, Google it. You'll probably find your answer.
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Old August 22nd, 2010, 08:49 AM   #43 (permalink)
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You are exactly correct. It saddens me to read all the replies that told you that your fears are without merit.

Seems that people such as yourself are in the vast minority of people, such as myself, that value privacy. Most people are brainwashed into just accepting that privacy does not exist. I find it funny that most of these same people uphold one of their pet laws, abortion, thru an argument that people have a fundamental right to privacy but get off that topic and they throw the right to privacy our the window.

A question to all, U.S. citizens, that say "if you've nothing to hide you've nothing to worry about", do you believe and would you exercise your 5th Amendment rights? Also, do you believe that Roe vs Wade was correct in its premise of privacy rights?
Thanks for your support!

As for people like us being alone, at this point (and sadly a few days beyond my 30-day return period), it seems that it's more true in the Android community than elsewhere. Anyway, there would be a disproportionate percentage Google employees trolling any Google-Droid forum, and the rest who follow tend to be younger, and much dumber about the world (if not tech) than most iphone users.
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Old August 22nd, 2010, 10:52 AM   #44 (permalink)
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If you think that trolling in an Android forum will change Google's business practices, then knock yourself out.

It is easy to avoid Google if you are so inclined.
Trolling? Who the hell is trolling? This is my OP! Which, btw, was posed neither on troll (necessarily an oxymoron when applied to the OP member) nor rant, but questions and solutions for those who understand just how good this world can be at using your collected data (no matter who you are) against you.

The problem is that most readers in this forum either haven't the attention span to read the OP all the way through, or they respond only for the purpose of trolling. Had one of the mods here even read my OP, rather than respond to the tone of all the negative responses,
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Since this is more of a general topic I'm going to move it to the Android Lounge.
than this would not have been moved to "the lounge"!

Anyway, here's repeating the questions: Is there more than the Google site which is involved in user data collection? Dolphin, or the Android system? I need to know which level this is at.

If it's just the google site, I have already reset my homepage to ssl.scroogle.org, which does not collect your data - this is fairly easy for anyone to do in the Dolphin settings. If it's that simple, then great, but I still don't know that.

If data is transmitted back to Google at browser level, Dolphin is no longer the only browser available for Android, although Opera (which I can't stand anyway) is owned by Google. Firefox has always been the best browser for PCs, and has not been known to work for cyberspies. They have an Android app under development (testing versions are available at the Mozilla site, but it still may be awhile before it's ready for prime time). Anyone know of other browsers for Android which will run on HTC Inc?

If the data collection goes as high as the OS level, then there may not be much that I can do, other than throw the "do not collect my data" switch, for what it's worth. I took care of that first thing, but excuse me for not trusting a company which is already reputed for it's underhanded and hugely hypocritical ("don't be evil") business policies.

A shocking number of you responded as if the Google people (or anyone) has the absolute right to go behind my back and use ME, who paid for their product, to enrich themselves without my full, informed consent. They would track me everywhere I go, everything I do, and everything I say, if I weren't aware enough to take protective measures. If you believe this is their right, then maybe you could explain to me why it would truly be wrong of me to follow you around physically, spying on you from the shadows, and collecting enough information that I can mess with your mind (targeted ads from anonymous sources, or any con job, there's hardly a difference). What, there are laws against that?
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Old August 22nd, 2010, 01:47 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Trolling? Who the hell is trolling? ....A shocking number of you responded as if the Google people (or anyone) has the absolute right to go behind my back and use ME, who paid for their product, to enrich themselves without my full, informed consent. They would track me everywhere I go, everything I do, and everything I say, if I weren't aware enough to take protective measures. If you believe this is their right, then maybe you could explain to me why it would truly be wrong of me to follow you around physically, spying on you from the shadows, and collecting enough information that I can mess with your mind (targeted ads from anonymous sources, or any con job, there's hardly a difference). What, there are laws against that?
I do believe that you are trolling, whether you believe it or not.

Secondly, you didn't pay Google for their product. Android is FREE. You paid the manufacturer of the phone / carrier for a product and service, but Google got absolutely nothing from your purchase.

Thirdly, you CAN turn off the GPS, network tracking, so they can't track anywhere you go. Besides, who cares where you go? Are you somehow more special than the rest of us?

I'm scared that Google knows I went to the gym, or the Walmart, or to Burger King for lunch?

If anything, it's not google that I'm concerned about, it's 3rd party apps that potentially can exploit your information that I'm concerned about.

This is why I do not use 3rd party Facebook apps, or 3rd party RSS readers that require my gmail account login info.

Do you have an email account? If not with Google with what provider? Hotmail? Yahoo? Your own ISP hosted email? Someone somewhere always has some information about you, if you want to be on the internet.

Lastly, and this is the most important - using Google services is OPTIONAL. No one is telling you or anyone else that you HAVE to use their services. Most people are rational, intelligent human beings who can consider the pros and cons of using a service like Google, and decide if the Pros are worth the Cons to use.

Unlike what you presume, we are NOT blind to the ability of ISPs, search providers, websites, etc to collect data about us. We just choose to take reasonable precautions and use the service for the benefits they provide.

I am a paranoid person about security, this is why I have 4 facebook accounts (one real with no activity, one for just stupid FB apps so apps can't get data about me, one for casual acquaintances like people from the gym, and one with an alias for real use with friends / family to share / see photos, etc). I think I'm more paranoid than most people, but even for me, your stance is completely unreasonable and wrong.

If you're so paranoid, I suggest you follow the actions of this guy: The most isolated man on the planet. - By Monte Reel - Slate Magazine

Good luck being off the grid.
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Old August 22nd, 2010, 02:55 PM   #46 (permalink)
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The more I post here, and the more posts I read here, the more I become sure that the Android community is one of ignoramuses and babies!
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#1 - It's about respect - if you want to be treated with respect, you need to give it!
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Old August 23rd, 2010, 07:17 AM   #47 (permalink)
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I do believe that you are trolling, whether you believe it or not.

Secondly, you didn't pay Google for their product. Android is FREE. You paid the manufacturer of the phone / carrier for a product and service, but Google got absolutely nothing from your purchase.

Thirdly, you CAN turn off the GPS, network tracking, so they can't track anywhere you go. Besides, who cares where you go? Are you somehow more special than the rest of us?

I'm scared that Google knows I went to the gym, or the Walmart, or to Burger King for lunch?

If anything, it's not google that I'm concerned about, it's 3rd party apps that potentially can exploit your information that I'm concerned about.

This is why I do not use 3rd party Facebook apps, or 3rd party RSS readers that require my gmail account login info.

Do you have an email account? If not with Google with what provider? Hotmail? Yahoo? Your own ISP hosted email? Someone somewhere always has some information about you, if you want to be on the internet.

Lastly, and this is the most important - using Google services is OPTIONAL. No one is telling you or anyone else that you HAVE to use their services. Most people are rational, intelligent human beings who can consider the pros and cons of using a service like Google, and decide if the Pros are worth the Cons to use.

Unlike what you presume, we are NOT blind to the ability of ISPs, search providers, websites, etc to collect data about us. We just choose to take reasonable precautions and use the service for the benefits they provide.

I am a paranoid person about security, this is why I have 4 facebook accounts (one real with no activity, one for just stupid FB apps so apps can't get data about me, one for casual acquaintances like people from the gym, and one with an alias for real use with friends / family to share / see photos, etc). I think I'm more paranoid than most people, but even for me, your stance is completely unreasonable and wrong.

If you're so paranoid, I suggest you follow the actions of this guy: The most isolated man on the planet. - By Monte Reel - Slate Magazine

Good luck being off the grid.
Wow!

Ask the wrong question, and 100 Google-programmed trolls will descend on you, accusing YOU of trolling!!! Get f&cking real - I do have the right to be critical of Google without being called a troll for it! The hypocrisy on this forum is so thick, you could cut a billboard banner out of it, and paste on some annoying (and much too personal) ad!

You don't care if Google knows that you went to Burger King for lunch, or whether or not you go to a gym? You will when your insurance company denies you treatment coverage when you get ill, based on your dirt which they bought from Google! I suppose you even think it would be fair, being all your fault for eating french fries and whoppers when you just couldn't make time to eat better, not excercising enough, spending too much time trolling on forums, or spending too much time in your car so that your kids can get to their soccer games! You would think it's fair if you never lived outside of his mother's house, or has inherited enough money to hire servants, not forced to work at a desk for a living, leaving you unlimited time to spend in the gym, and in health food stores! Sure, it's fair alright, in that Burger King is also buying Google data, for use in perfecting the ad techniques which started, and now sustain your junk food addictions! Information is power - if it wasn't, then Google wouldn't be spending the money to log it all. It's the power to make someone's money, to take someone's money, or to deny someone money which is due, no matter how much money they already took as insurance premiums. This ain't hypothetical, it's being used like this in the world right now, and then I'm sure you have heard of how Google's half-baked info is used by ignoramus employers. If you aren't concerned with any of the above, then maybe you will change your mind when you get to experience some of it first-hand.

I have repeated my questions for the second time, and while there have been many responses, not one of my questions was answered. Plainly, there is a lot more interest in SUPPRESSING questions in this forum than in answering them!

I'm not paranoid at all, I just don't like being used in some sneaky, creepy fashion, and being known by ad-spewing bots by my first name (I have actually seen such ads before)! I doubt that my own career could easily be impacted by anyone who would use my online tracks against me, although there are some where I would definitely be sweating it.

I do believe I am truly wasting my time discussing personal security issues here - most of you, just like so many mindless, brainwashed "droids", have made it clear that you think sneaky, creepy online stalking is just perfectly OK! I have better things to do, and unfortunately more now that I'm stuck with Google spyware for my phone OS, but there are wiser people elsewhere who never lose their will to fry your Google circuits! I've had enough of this - good bye!
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Old August 23rd, 2010, 09:10 AM   #48 (permalink)
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The problem is that most readers in this forum either haven't the attention span to read the OP all the way through, or they respond only for the purpose of trolling. Had one of the mods here even read my OP, rather than respond to the tone of all the negative responses,

than this would not have been moved to "the lounge"!
Just to make things clear, I did read your original post and I moved it because it is a general Android question and not something specific to the Incredible.


As far as the rest of this thread goes,


Some of you really need to relax and realize that not everyone making a comment against Android, Google or the specific phone you carry is a troll. There are people with legitimate concerns about their privacy. While many will agree that true privacy is more or less a thing of the past, there are those that would like to remain as anonymous as they can while online. This doesn't make them the butt of every tinfoil hat joke you can think up.

Please remember the rules as well as the zero tolerance policy when posting. There is no reason at all for a majority of the comments made in this thread. A very interesting discussion could have come from this thread if most of you had not decided to call the OP and others trolls in every single post.
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Old August 23rd, 2010, 09:50 AM   #49 (permalink)
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Just to make things clear, I did read your original post and I moved it because it is a general Android question and not something specific to the Incredible.
This may be true, but the "lounge" environment invites trolls everywhere - people go there to sound off, not deal with questions! I do appreciate what you said just now, but it really didn't help the purpose of getting questions answered by moving this thread here.
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Old August 23rd, 2010, 11:54 AM   #50 (permalink)
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This thread has really run its course. There is nothing that can be said. This is painfully obvious to everyone but one or two individuals out there.
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