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Old July 27th, 2011, 07:02 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Angry Why do OEMs put UIs on the OS!

NOTE: This thread was created as some posts went OT from the original thread they were in.

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Also, why are we stuck with the launcher in that position. I'd like three items in the dock with the launcher in the middle...like it should be.
As for how you feel "It should be" - that's your opinion.

That's the nice thing about android. You don't like MotoBlur, download another launcher (I use Launcher Pro myself). With LP, I can configure all that to be how I think it should be without pushing my opinion on anyone else.

I happen to like the off white background on the settings menu MUCH better than the White on Black. That hurt my eyes. But, that's my opinion.

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Old July 27th, 2011, 10:13 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Wolfman, you missed my point. I asked why we are "stuck" with those things. What is their reasoning behind locking the launcher in that position and not giving an option to switch between white or black? I understand that it's my opinion...it was Motorola's opinion, however, to force those things on people. I'm not asking that everyone be stuck with what I like, just give us the f-ing option without having to download third-party launchers. How hard could it be?

ETA: As for "how it should be"...Vanilla Android is how it should be. Google made it that way, we should get it that way, then you can customize all you want. While you say that the nice thing about Android is the ability to download launchers, the bad thing about it is the fact that phone manufacturers rape it before they give it to us.
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Old July 27th, 2011, 11:36 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by thabends View Post
Wolfman, you missed my point. I asked why we are "stuck" with those things. What is their reasoning behind locking the launcher in that position and not giving an option to switch between white or black? I understand that it's my opinion...it was Motorola's opinion, however, to force those things on people. I'm not asking that everyone be stuck with what I like, just give us the f-ing option without having to download third-party launchers. How hard could it be?

ETA: As for "how it should be"...Vanilla Android is how it should be. Google made it that way, we should get it that way, then you can customize all you want. While you say that the nice thing about Android is the ability to download launchers, the bad thing about it is the fact that phone manufacturers rape it before they give it to us.
I agree with you. Does anyone know if we can let Motorola know about this annoying matter. So that if they are going to push out another update in Gingerbread for this phone, they would hopefully take this into consideration.
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Old July 27th, 2011, 11:48 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by thabends View Post

ETA: As for "how it should be"...Vanilla Android is how it should be. Google made it that way, we should get it that way, then you can customize all you want. While you say that the nice thing about Android is the ability to download launchers, the bad thing about it is the fact that phone manufacturers rape it before they give it to us.
That's why you have the Nexus phones line
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Old July 27th, 2011, 11:59 AM   #5 (permalink)
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thabends - You are the one that misses the bigger point.

Google intended this to be an OPEN system. Not only for users to customize, but for manufacturers to make it their way.
Unlike iPhones that are all cookie cutter.

Motorola is not FORCING anything on you. Besides the fact that you can download a 3rd party app as a choice... you also have the choice of OTHER BRANDS! No one put a gun to your head and said "If you want an Android, you have to buy a Motorola, you have to use it on AT&T and live what they set on it."

If you want an Android phone, you have a LOT of choices... Motorola, HTC, Samsung... Sprint, Verizon, AT&T, T-Mobile, Virgin, Metro PCS.... THAT'S the point. Google is not making a cookie cutter phone/OS like Apple does. If you prefer Motorola because of the hardware, then you choose to live with THEIR version of an Android phone, or customize it with a 3rd party app. Has Google ever came out with a guideline that says "To use our OS, all manufacturers have to comply with XYZ color scheme, XYZ menu design, XYZ Dock settings...."??? No. They have openly said that device manufacturers are free to customize the OS for their devices.

That's the joy of Android.... CHOICE... choice of what carrier to be on, choice of what brand of phone to buy, and choices of 3rd party apps to modify those phones if we don't like how the manufacturer set them up.

Most of us get that and don't threaten to punch someone at Motorola in the privates if we don't like what they did. (For the record, I prefer the offwhite background with black text menu's to the Black menu with White text. That's always hurt my eyes!! Perhaps you want to punch me in the privates for liking it??)

tatiana320 - Motorola is known for doing what they want, despite what the customer feedback is. So, I'm sure you could head over to the Motorola official support forums on their site and complain. But, I really doubt they are going to listen.
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Old July 27th, 2011, 12:24 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Dude, this is the "Why I hate the new Gingerbread OTA" thread. If you don't want to read about what people don't like about the update, then don't click on it. No one put a gun to your head and made you read it. Go start the "Why I love the new Gingerbread OTA" thread or QFT. You knew when you saw the title that opinions would be thrown around.
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Old July 27th, 2011, 12:35 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Dude, this is the "Why I hate the new Gingerbread OTA" thread. If you don't want to read about what people don't like about the update, then don't click on it. No one put a gun to your head and made you read it. Go start the "Why I love the new Gingerbread OTA" thread or QFT. You knew when you saw the title that opinions would be thrown around.
"Dude" - all I did was respond to your post trying to HELP you get around one of your problems. That's what happens here. This is not a "GB Haters Only Club" thread. People post what they hate about the update, and some of us actually try to help.

That's all I did. Instead of saying "Thanks for trying to help, but I don't want it, I just want to vent and whine." You went on a rant attacking Motorola for doing just what Google allows. If you didn't want me to address all the things that was wrong with your rant, then you shouldn't have responded.

I'll say it again. The great thing about Android is CHOICE. Yeah, there are things I don't like about the GB update. But, I choose to look for ways around it rather than just complaining. And, I choose to try to help others get around what they don't like.

If you want something more VANILLA, then get a Nexus.... It's your CHOICE.

I just hope that my response to your issues helps someone else with the same issues get around them.
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Old July 27th, 2011, 12:37 PM   #8 (permalink)
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You could maybe get in on the Soak test (are we allowed to acknowledge that those exist yet?) but from what I've seen it's not very likely that you'll be listened to there. Perhaps if you could get in on an earlier stage of development/testing your voice would be more audible to those who make the decisions.

For me the changes that Motorola has made to the OS are the worst things about this phone. The UI changes make it inferior, in my opinion, to stock Android. Motoblur is absolutely horrible. Attempts at single sign on are one thing but it's so integrated into the core of the OS that it negatively impacts performance in terms of speed and efficiency as well as battery life and connectivity.

For those of us who don't want to root our devices it's pretty disappointing that so much potential is laid to waste by delusional attempts at improvement. If the Atrix came loaded with stock Android it would be hands down the best phone on the market. The best any other phone would be able to hope for would be a distant second.
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Old July 27th, 2011, 12:42 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Robby, the Nexus S, since reports that it's coming to AT&T, is definitely tempting. I'm not sure the loss of the dual core CPU would negatively impact the experience of a user who's been using an Atrix for a while though.

More to the point, for most people who are not up for an upgrade the cost is a bit out of reach.

Where your point holds validity, for me at least, is when it comes time to renew. At that time I don't see myself going with a phone that isn't stock.

For now, we all bought a phone that we knew full well didn't have stock Android. That much is true, however the problems I see people having are mostly due to functionality that was present when they purchased the phone and has since been lost.
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Old July 27th, 2011, 12:46 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Robby, the Nexus S, since reports that it's coming to AT&T, is definitely tempting.
Yeah, I just wonder how "Vanilla" a Nexus on AT&T will be?? You know how much those guys in the big, blue Death Star LOVE to screw with the phones they sell!!!
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Old July 27th, 2011, 12:51 PM   #11 (permalink)
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True enough. One can certainly hope though, if only to show everyone that stock Android is a good idea. I fear that the phone having been out on other providers for the better part of a year may hurt it's sales, especially with AT&T's upgrade policy.

It would be very nice if AT&T would adopt something more like Verizon's upgrade policy wherein you can upgrade with the 2-year price (with commitment) after one year.
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Old July 27th, 2011, 12:58 PM   #12 (permalink)
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But, am I the only one that see's the irony in demanding that carriers and manufacturers conform to a standard (Vanilla/Stock Android OS) for a system that is about open standards?????

It's a double edged sword.... Either we want it standardized (Everything Generic/Vanilla/Stock OS), or we want it open to promote individuality, innovation, customization and choice.
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Old July 27th, 2011, 01:13 PM   #13 (permalink)
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You're not the only one. However one of the downsides to an open infrastructure is that it's opened to be screwed up. That doesn't (or shouldn't) diminish the ability/right of those who put down money for the products to demand that they work at least as advertised however.
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Old July 27th, 2011, 01:20 PM   #14 (permalink)
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But, the majority of the complaints in this thread have been about COSMETIC changes in the new version. Or, about stock apps being changed. How are COSMETIC changes, or applications that can be replaced by a FREE alternative preventing the device from working as advertised??

Not to mention, many of those that people are complaining about, others like the changes.

I don't recall seeing an advertisement saying that the Atrix was a generic Android, that it wasn't customized by Motorola.

Yes, there have been a few technical issues, and most of those seem limited, or easily resolved.

But, again, I maintain, Google encourages the manufacturers to customize the OS for their devices.

It's a double edged sword. But, unless Motorola broke a FUNCTION of the device, there is nothing about this update that keeps it from working "As Advertised."

No device, no manufacturer, no version of the OS is going to make EVERYONE 100% happy.


EDIT: Expanding on the "As Advertised" part.... Motorola has continually pushed their MotoBlur interface as an enhancement. So, them expanding on their version of their customization is actually "As Advertised", in my opinion.
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Old July 27th, 2011, 01:56 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I have moved the discussion to its own thread and made the title to reflect where this discussion was going.
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Old July 27th, 2011, 03:37 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WolfmanRobby View Post
But, the majority of the complaints in this thread have been about COSMETIC changes in the new version. Or, about stock apps being changed. How are COSMETIC changes, or applications that can be replaced by a FREE alternative preventing the device from working as advertised??

Not to mention, many of those that people are complaining about, others like the changes.

I don't recall seeing an advertisement saying that the Atrix was a generic Android, that it wasn't customized by Motorola.

Yes, there have been a few technical issues, and most of those seem limited, or easily resolved.

But, again, I maintain, Google encourages the manufacturers to customize the OS for their devices.

It's a double edged sword. But, unless Motorola broke a FUNCTION of the device, there is nothing about this update that keeps it from working "As Advertised."

No device, no manufacturer, no version of the OS is going to make EVERYONE 100% happy.


EDIT: Expanding on the "As Advertised" part.... Motorola has continually pushed their MotoBlur interface as an enhancement. So, them expanding on their version of their customization is actually "As Advertised", in my opinion.
I've followed this thread a bit and understand where you're coming from. And to a point I actually agree. Android was created open to offer a more customizable OS option vs the competition.

The argument that I have is how most manufacturers are changing the OS so much that it is affecting the overall Android experience. And it goes even further that they're locking the bootloader so even advanced users cannot (or makes if very hard to) change back to stock Android.

I spent a year on a Droid X and LOVED that phone. The build quality is exactly what I expect (good job on that one Moto), but Motoblur Froyo was pretty crappy (IMO). Several months back I went to Gingerbreadblur and as much as I dislike Motorola for locking their phones and will likely NEVER buy another product of theirs for the comments they made to the mod community, they really did a good job with it (Gingerblur).

In a perfect world I'd love to see manufacturers offer their version of their OS as a purchaseable ROM or app and only sell their phones based on the hardware they offer.

It's unfortunate that when shopping a new phone I have to look for the least of evils with how a manufacturer manipulates Android.
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Old July 27th, 2011, 03:48 PM   #17 (permalink)
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It's unfortunate that when shopping a new phone I have to look for the least of evils with how a manufacturer manipulates Android.
But, how much of that is Google's own fault for not only leaving the OS so open, but encouraging Manufacturers to "Make it their own"???

Also, remember, not everyone is a techie. Take my fiance. She does not want to spend hours, much less DAYS trying to make her phone look a certain way, or configuring things.

I would say that, 70% (Or much more) of the consumers want the out of box experience that companies like Motorola have given with their customization.

However, where they go wrong is in the LOCKING IT DOWN. I say to not only let the companies Like Motorola run wild, build their own interfaces... but to encourage that innovation. Let them make it more and more simple for Joe User, or for the people that were spoon fed on an iPhone to use. Just don't LOCK it down. Give us, the power users, the right to go back to stock, to tweak it and make it our own.
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Old July 27th, 2011, 08:50 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Because the stock UI sucks. And by UI, I'm not just talking about the launcher.

It's too basic for the average user and needs work (aka searching for the right app) to get fully functional. As noted previously, the Nexus line exists for the hair shirt crowd.
 
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Old July 28th, 2011, 09:33 AM   #19 (permalink)
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As for "how it should be"...Vanilla Android is how it should be. Google made it that way, we should get it that way, then you can customize all you want.
No, it's not. Android is designed for OEM's to customize. Your personal interpretation of how things "should be" isn't in line with reality. As stated above, if you want vanilla then make it a priority on your shopping list whether the device ships with vanilla or can be rooted and loaded with a custom ROM.

From http://source.android.com/about/philosophy.html, emphasis added:
Quote:
We created Android in response to our own experiences launching mobile apps. We wanted to make sure that there would always be an open platform available for carriers, OEMs, and developers to use to make their innovative ideas a reality. We wanted to make sure that there was no central point of failure, where one industry player could restrict or control the innovations of any other. The solution we chose was an open and open-source platform.
You can certainly disagree with an OEM on whether or not their UI qualifies as innovative but that doesn't change the intent behind Android.

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it was Motorola's opinion, however, to force those things on people. I'm not asking that everyone be stuck with what I like, just give us the f-ing option without having to download third-party launchers. How hard could it be?
However, I don't disagree with this point. I agree that the OEM's should offer choice to the users.

As for "How hard could it be?" those are famous last words of the ignorant. I'm not saying it's hard in this particular case but everything seems easy when you're blissfully unaware of the nitty gritty details involved.

See also: Top Gear and any time Jeremy Clarkson asks that question if you really need some examples.

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If the Atrix came loaded with stock Android it would be hands down the best phone on the market.
Best is always highly subjective, regardless of topic and UI's are no different. Never assume that your preferences are universal. I'm not a fan of Blur but that doesn't mean that no one prefers Blur. Don't get caught up in your own tunnel vision.

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Also, remember, not everyone is a techie.
Bingo. Forum enthusiasts always seems to overestimate the percentage of the overall Android users base that they make up. It's a tiny fraction.
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Old July 28th, 2011, 09:50 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Here's the real problem. Everyone refers to a "STOCK" Android.... IT DOES NOT EXIST !!!

Google puts out the source code, and each company builds their own flavor from it. Even the NEXUS is not really "STOCK" - they just compile it with very generic settings.

All of these 3rd party ROM's that claim to be "STOCK ANDROID" are just that developers interpretation of a generic Android OS.
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Old July 28th, 2011, 11:22 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Why do they put custom UIs on Android? Because they can. Let's see a carrier do that with Apple and see what happens to them.
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Old July 29th, 2011, 01:36 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Why not? If a manufacturer creates something that out of the box has some cool features that people like, what's wrong with that?

A friend got a Nexus S and I have an HTC Desire Z. I was showing him this widget I have on my phone and found that it's not on his. I took a closer look and found that the Desire Z comes with so much more built-in than the Nexus S. If anything, it makes some things more convenient for me which I don't mind. I won't have to download my own apps or widgets.
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Old July 29th, 2011, 07:54 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Why do they put custom UIs on Android? Because they can.
It's also how one manufacturer differentiates their product from others on the market. HTC's Sense UI is a prime example. The flip clock, the shiny widgets, the wallpaper, the arched lockscreen pull-down bar... an HTC device is immediately identifiable. Sense is also, like Motoblur and Touchwiz, an attempt to make Android more user-friendly. These approaches obviously succeed to a greater extent, as witnessed by the number of devices happily running with these UI overlays.
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Old July 29th, 2011, 10:54 PM   #24 (permalink)
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It's also how one manufacturer differentiates their product from others on the market. HTC's Sense UI is a prime example. The flip clock, the shiny widgets, the wallpaper, the arched lockscreen pull-down bar... an HTC device is immediately identifiable. Sense is also, like Motoblur and Touchwiz, an attempt to make Android more user-friendly. These approaches obviously succeed to a greater extent, as witnessed by the number of devices happily running with these UI overlays.
this seems rather obvious to me as the primary reason. Sense virtually defines HTC android phones from other android phone manufacturers. You have people who will for go all kinds of superior hardware, specs and peformance from other brands in order to maintain the Sense UI. I'm pretty sure Motorola and Samsung aspire to have the same UI brand distinction but have just fell short. And beyond that I dont think customers (not rooters and fanatics like us) or carriers want you to walk into their store and all 5-10 android phones they carrry look and function virtually identicle save a few minor (to the casual/typical buyer) details (screen size, buttons ect).
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Old July 29th, 2011, 11:24 PM   #25 (permalink)
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IMHO (minus the H)

They just need to make them removable/optional. Differentiation is great. Giving the user options is WIN.
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Old July 31st, 2011, 11:03 AM   #26 (permalink)
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"Why do OEMs put UIs on the OS?"

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Old July 31st, 2011, 12:35 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alostpacket View Post
IMHO (minus the H)

They just need to make them removable/optional. Differentiation is great. Giving the user options is WIN.
+1

At least the OEMs don't follow what the Verizon / Samsung Fascinate did and Bing up the phone...

This is also why I root so I can put AOSP ROMs on there.
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