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Old November 30th, 2011, 12:07 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Discuss Carrier IQ and privacy?

Thought some might wanna discuss Carrier IQ and privacy. (See the news in the forum or Google 'Carrier IQ') This seems particularly evil, pre-installed malware.

Known to be on many Verizon and Sprint phones. I don't know about AT&T or T-Mobile. T-Mo has not responded on their support site. I just called T-Mo and had a good if uninformative discussion with a T-Mo tech support supervisor who had not yet heard of Carrier IQ. Promised to see if he could find out if T-Mo is using it and call or email back.

Anyone know of a list of carriers, manufacturers or phones models using Carrier IQ?

EDIT: Basic check to see if it's running on your phone...
Look under Menu > Settings > Applications > Running services. Check for 'IQ Agent Service'.

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Old November 30th, 2011, 01:03 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I just read about this at:
Researcher uncovers keylogging 'rootkit' in Android phones

Any developers able to confirm this carrier IQ is on more than just HTC devices?
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Old November 30th, 2011, 01:18 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krcossin View Post
I just read about this at:
Researcher uncovers keylogging 'rootkit' in Android phones

Any developers able to confirm this carrier IQ is on more than just HTC devices?

It is on my Sprint Samsung phone.

Following #CIQ on Twitter
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Old November 30th, 2011, 01:33 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Posting for first time so I can post a link... Seriously guys?
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Old November 30th, 2011, 01:33 PM   #5 (permalink)
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They released a 1-page PDF in response to the negative media buzz: LINK

The software is used in smartphones, tablets, and is claimed to be for optimizing user experience and overall quality. They claim it doesn't log keystrokes or track locations.

Now, regardless of whether or not they're blowing smoke, why can't we have the option to uninstall it if we wish? It's our hardware.
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Old November 30th, 2011, 01:46 PM   #6 (permalink)
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is it on the galaxy SII skyrocket???
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Old November 30th, 2011, 03:27 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Class action lawsuit anyone?
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Old November 30th, 2011, 04:01 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I tried looking for anything IQ in my Application, couldn't find anything obvious on my Moto Droid2Global. I would guess it is somewhere, I'm just not that developerish kind of root guy.
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Old November 30th, 2011, 05:15 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Ugh! How in the H E double hockey sticks is CIQ continuing to get away with this bs?

Carrier IQ Part #2 - YouTube
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Old November 30th, 2011, 05:16 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krcossin View Post
I tried looking for anything IQ in my Application, couldn't find anything obvious on my Moto Droid2Global. I would guess it is somewhere, I'm just not that developerish kind of root guy.
Look under Menu > Settings > Applications > Running services. On my phone it is listed as IQ Agent Service.
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Old November 30th, 2011, 05:40 PM   #11 (permalink)
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I have a hard time understanding how this level of detailed tracking without permission could be legal. Many thanks to Trevor Eckhart for exposing this.

I still have the DInc (while waiting for the SGN) and I didn't see any indication that CIQ was installed. Am I missing anything? If it doesn't already exist, we should start a list of which android devices have it and which don't.
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Old November 30th, 2011, 05:44 PM   #12 (permalink)
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TMO has this. Told them it sounded too much like CIQ and no thanks.



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Old November 30th, 2011, 05:55 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by momentoid View Post
Look under Menu > Settings > Applications > Running services. On my phone it is listed as IQ Agent Service.
Not listed there on my T-Mobile/HTC G2. I'll be able to check a T-Mo/LG G2x tomorrow. Hopefully not used on any T-Mo phones. So far as I know only Verizon and Sprint have been confirmed.

I assume unlocked phones not bought from a provider will be safe. I agree someone should start a sticky list of verified safe/unsafe phones and providers.
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Old November 30th, 2011, 07:44 PM   #14 (permalink)
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I'm looking over Google's privacy policy and this key term has a vague ending:

Quote:
Personal information

“Personal information” is information that you provide to us which personally identifies you, such as your name, email address or billing information, or other data which can be reasonably linked to such information by Google.
There's no mention of 3rd parties collecting and supplying user data to Google, or at least none that I can find. This is the real problem - not that Carrier IQ exists, but that it doesn't ask for consent of collecting personal user data, and that IS a real problem.
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Old November 30th, 2011, 08:00 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Is this BS app on the optimus v phone?.

Lee
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Old November 30th, 2011, 08:56 PM   #16 (permalink)
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I think it's only a matter of time before CarrierIQ is sued into oblivion and carriers face some heavy duty fines.

EDIT: AND BAM!

http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2011/11/30/phone-rootkit-carrier-iq-may-have-violated-wiretap-law-in-millions-of-cases/
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Old November 30th, 2011, 09:20 PM   #17 (permalink)
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This is why I rom.
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Old December 1st, 2011, 01:16 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snow_Fox View Post
This is why I rom.
So you are saying it's in or running on your phone? According to everything I read and watched, there's no way to get rid of it that anyone knows yet.
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Old December 1st, 2011, 02:11 AM   #19 (permalink)
 
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Default We're bugg(er)ed! All 140 million of us!

...because of a secret app, a spykit of software, a socalled rootkit, that is installed on all Android and Blackberry phones, that monitors and logs whatever you do, and every keystroke – including passwords – and then 'phones home' to upload all your data to the mothership.

And it's anybody's guess what happens after that with it!

Houston, we have a problem!

Researcher’s Video Shows Secret Software on Millions of Phones Logging Everything | Threat Level | Wired.com
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Old December 1st, 2011, 06:39 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hiwatt View Post
So you are saying it's in or running on your phone? According to everything I read and watched, there's no way to get rid of it that anyone knows yet.
I'm pretty sure that replacing the operating system ought to do it...
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Old December 1st, 2011, 08:37 AM   #21 (permalink)
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REPOST:
Is this software on your smartphone? Eckhart has created an Android app that can check, but it’s not available from the Android Market – you’ll have to sideload it directly from the developer’s own site. Eckhart notes that it’s found on HTC and Samsung Android phones. Samsung phones offer a hard-to-access way to turn it off, while HTC does not.

No one has listed which phones. The article says Samsung does have a way to turn it off, but doesn't say how. If this is going to be discussed, how about some more information on who is using it, which phones, and if there is an opt out, however convoluted, post it. Besides rooting and using Cyanogen Mod.

I don't see it under running apps on the SGS4G. However, phone is rooted and a lot of extra carrier junk got deleted. No custom ROM.

Is that download from the developer safe?
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Old December 1st, 2011, 08:38 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zorkie View Post
I'm looking over Google's privacy policy and this key term has a vague ending:



There's no mention of 3rd parties collecting and supplying user data to Google, or at least none that I can find. This is the real problem - not that Carrier IQ exists, but that it doesn't ask for consent of collecting personal user data, and that IS a real problem.
This is not really a Google issue. The software is added to the phone by the carrier, not Google.
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Old December 1st, 2011, 08:44 AM   #23 (permalink)
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The guy who found and reported on Carrier IQ has an app that supposedly detects it and is available here. The app does all kinds of logging as well. I have not been able to get the app to work quite right on my phone so I can't vouch for it. It does have a button that you can push to see if your phone has Carrier IQ on it though.

Edit: I got it to run on my phone. It did ask for SU rights (which I granted it), but I don't know for sure if it needs them in order to detect Carrier IQ. It's a logging app and I'm sure it would need them to do certain kinds of logging. I ran the detector on my phone (DInc2). I don't think it detected it, but I'm honestly not 100% sure. It's not very clear to me and I'd need to see a screen shot from a phone that is known to have the software to be sure. If you've got a phone that is known to have Carrier IQ on it and can run this tool and post a screenshot, I'd appreciate it.
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Old December 1st, 2011, 08:53 AM   #24 (permalink)
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there are a bunch of Apps on my Droid 3 called "Data Collection" that have permissions to everything on phone...
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Old December 1st, 2011, 09:42 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zuben el genub View Post
If this is going to be discussed, how about some more information on who is using it, which phones, and if there is an opt out, however convoluted, post it.
I agree someone should start a sticky list of verified safe/unsafe phones and providers. But I'm kinda new here and not sure how to or if I even could. I just started this thread because I thought it deserved some attention and discussion.
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Old December 1st, 2011, 09:50 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaycbrf4 View Post
there are a bunch of Apps on my Droid 3 called "Data Collection" that have permissions to everything on phone...
DX is in that same boat. Does this mean Verizon and Motorola have the passwords to my online banking accounts? If so no way that is legal.
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Old December 1st, 2011, 10:03 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Tested the app on my HTC Desire running Cyanogen rom, and nothing found according to the app.

All the files it was searching for wasn't there

Hopefully I am safe

Some would say what we got to hide

Well the reply to that is we have our privacy to hide
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Old December 1st, 2011, 10:03 AM   #28 (permalink)
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There's already a thread about this:
Android Discussion > Android Lounge - Discuss Carrier IQ and privacy?

Not everyone is screwed, just some.
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Old December 1st, 2011, 02:06 PM   #29 (permalink)
 
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[snip]
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Old December 1st, 2011, 02:12 PM   #30 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wayrad View Post
I'm pretty sure that replacing the operating system ought to do it...
"I'm pretty sure" means you're guessing.
And FYI, it's not "going to do it", my friend, because it has already done it:
they've already got your data and passwords!
You can't get the toothpaste back into the tube.
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Old December 1st, 2011, 02:15 PM   #31 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eyebeam View Post
Ugh! How in the H E double hockey sticks is CIQ continuing to get away with this bs?
Because we let them.
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Old December 1st, 2011, 02:54 PM   #32 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kycats View Post
I checked for both Carrier IQ services on my Atrix and found neither. I installed AnyCut from the Market and tried to create a shortcut for them under "Activities", but neither were present in the list. As far as I can tell, the Atrix is clean.
Yes, as far as you can tell...
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Old December 1st, 2011, 03:10 PM   #33 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IOWA View Post
I think it's only a matter of time before CarrierIQ is sued into oblivion and carriers face some heavy duty fines.

EDIT: AND BAM!

Phone 'Rootkit' Maker Carrier IQ May Have Violated Wiretap Law In Millions Of Cases - Forbes
That doesn't solve the problem. They have already done it. Your data and your passwords have already been leeched and are sitting on their servers! And who knows where else!

The damage has already been done. No way to undo that.
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Old December 1st, 2011, 03:13 PM   #34 (permalink)
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And now the U.S. Senate gets involved...

Sen. Al Franken (chairman of the Subcommittee on Privacy, Technology, and the Law) demands answers from Carrier IQ ↓

Sen. Franken demands answers from Carrier IQ, suggests phone snooping violates federal law
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Old December 1st, 2011, 03:54 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Been thinking about rooting, but thought no need atm. But now, I think I wanna root my phone just to get rid of the spyware. I mean, it's spyware (software spying on you without your knowledge). Would have been different if they would have at least told upfront!
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Old December 1st, 2011, 03:59 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sisu View Post
I mean, it's spyware (software spying on you without your knowledge). Would have been different if they would have at least told upfront!
I think this is the major issue here. Of course you don't get total privacy, but if they are tracking stuff, they should be up front about what they're tracking and how often, and how they store that stuff and for how long.

It's just like how, when you install Android apps from the Market, you get warned about what permissions the app has. You can still go ahead and install it anyway, but it's your informed choice.
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Old December 1st, 2011, 03:59 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hiwatt View Post
So you are saying it's in or running on your phone? According to everything I read and watched, there's no way to get rid of it that anyone knows yet.
Yes, the second thing TrevE (Trevor Eckhart) did after posting his findings was posting a way to remove it. The third thing he did was make an app that can detect it and remove it (if you donate $1 to him for the removing feature, I donated the $1 just for him finding the damn thing). Most, if not all, Evo 3D ROMs (TrevE is a Evo 3D dev) have CIQ disabled or outright removed, thanks to TrevE. I tried his detection / removal app on my Acer Iconia A500. While CIQ was not installed (not surprised, as the A500 is not something I bought through a carrier), it did detect and disable Google's appusage logs. So I imagine it'd work for anything with CIQ installed, not just the Evo 3D.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rovers View Post
"I'm pretty sure" means you're guessing.
And FYI, it's not "going to do it", my friend, because it has already done it:
they've already got your data and passwords!
You can't get the toothpaste back into the tube.
No, but you can disable the loggers and change your passwords. So throw the toothpaste out and get a new tube.
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Old December 1st, 2011, 04:03 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crashdamage View Post
I agree someone should start a sticky list of verified safe/unsafe phones and providers. But I'm kinda new here and not sure how to or if I even could. I just started this thread because I thought it deserved some attention and discussion.
If you want to start a thread that lists CIQ enabled devices, you can do so and request that it be made a sticky. The site staff will discuss if it warrants a sticky and will sticky it if it does. If it does not, it just stays in normal area. You can always link to the thread in your own signature, too.
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Old December 1st, 2011, 04:56 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A.Nonymous View Post
This is not really a Google issue. The software is added to the phone by the carrier, not Google.
You're right. And Sprint's Privacy Policy seems wide-open for data mining.
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Old December 1st, 2011, 05:41 PM   #40 (permalink)
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If you want to start a thread that lists CIQ enabled devices, you can do so and request that it be made a sticky. The site staff will discuss if it warrants a sticky and will sticky it if it does. If it does not, it just stays in normal area. You can always link to the thread in your own signature, too.
It seems the only two carriers that have it are Sprint and ATT.
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Old December 1st, 2011, 06:30 PM   #41 (permalink)
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It seems the only two carriers that have it are Sprint and ATT.
I assume that includes Virgin Mobile, Boost Mobile and other Sprint-owned carriers too
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Old December 1st, 2011, 06:59 PM   #42 (permalink)
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T-Mobile has confessed that at least some of their phones have it or will in future models. And it has been found on several Verizon models. We should assume at least the 4 national US carriers are all guilty.

Probably the only ways to be safe are to:
1. Buy unlocked generic phones (NOT purchased from a provider) such as a world model unlocked Nexus or
2. Root and install a custom ROM.

One thing is sure...if you have a phone, computer or most any electronic device that connects to anything, Big Brother is watching. Or a security camera is. Or someone is video recording with a phone.

Makes me wonder if it's so pervasive that it's futile to fight it. Maybe better to quit worrying and just be careful what you do and how you do it.
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Old December 1st, 2011, 07:06 PM   #43 (permalink)
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When some carriers so eagerly say they don't use Carrier IQ, it doesn't mean they aren't using some other logging method. I am sure Carrier IQ isn't the only application out there.
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Old December 1st, 2011, 07:10 PM   #44 (permalink)
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Look under Menu > Settings > Applications > Running services. On my phone it is listed as IQ Agent Service.
Not present on my Galaxy S, but then it has CM7.
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Old December 1st, 2011, 07:28 PM   #45 (permalink)
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...because of a secret app, a spykit of software, a socalled rootkit, that is installed on all Android and Blackberry phones, that monitors and logs whatever you do, and every keystroke – including passwords – and then 'phones home' to upload all your data to the mothership.
Not all Android phones, things like CyanogenMod and other custom ROMs are completely open source code. That means that there are NO secret keyloggers, spykits, secret apps, backdoors etc. Because they would be obvious from looking at the source code of the ROM. If the user installs proprietary third-party apps though, they could very easily have spying and tracking processes.

If one has a device with proprietary closed source manufacturer's and/or carrier's software and customisations on it, well there can be anything going on here, including keyloggers, secret spykits, etc.
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Old December 1st, 2011, 08:00 PM   #46 (permalink)
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Under Menu > Settings > Applications > Running services there is an app named IQ Agent Service which has the longest running time and cannot be stopped.

Also, I've noticed that under Menu > Settings > Applications > Manage applications > Menu > Filter > All, there is an app named Keytracer which has all kinds of Permissions. Wondering if this is part of the IQ Agent service, part of Swype, or part of Android.

Could users who do not have Swype installed please confirm this either way. Thanks.
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Old December 1st, 2011, 08:58 PM   #47 (permalink)
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Just buy your phones from Canada: Rogers, Telus, Bell, Virgin, Fido and Videotron confirm that Carrier IQ is not present on their devices | MobileSyrup.com
 
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Old December 1st, 2011, 09:07 PM   #48 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by momentoid View Post
Under Menu > Settings > Applications > Running services there is an app named IQ Agent Service which has the longest running time and cannot be stopped.

Also, I've noticed that under Menu > Settings > Applications > Manage applications > Menu > Filter > All, there is an app named Keytracer which has all kinds of Permissions. Wondering if this is part of the IQ Agent service, part of Swype, or part of Android.

Could users who do not have Swype installed please confirm this either way. Thanks.
Like IQ Agent, Keytracer is NOT present on my phone. I don't have Swype installed because I didn't like it. The processes running on my phone are, ADW Launcher, Settings, Maps, Skype, DSP Manager, Google Services, Voice Notify and Android Keyboard, there is nothing that I wouldn't expect to be present. My phone in addition to having having CM7, also has the official Google software installed, like Gmail, Market, Gtalk, Maps, Goggles, Calendar. But there are no unexpected or suspicious things present AFAICT.

Seems to me, the way to get rid of this IQ Agent tracking and spying thing, is to have an open source ROM like CM7. There are NO secret and/or clandestine things going on in the background, because they're open source.

Just be careful about what apps and games one installs. Like does one trust that Justin Bieber wallpaper app not to be spying on you, look at those permissions carefully.
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Old December 1st, 2011, 09:46 PM   #49 (permalink)
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When some carriers so eagerly say they don't use Carrier IQ, it doesn't mean they aren't using some other logging method. I am sure Carrier IQ isn't the only application out there.
Before smart phones and fancy "apps", ALL wireless carriers collected (and they still do) just about anything you do with your phone.
Phone calls - you get detailed billing that shows EVERY number you call, or that calls you, it can determine which calls were answered on call waiting, and 3r party calls.
Txt and SMS, yep all that stuff to, who what when and where.
Data, yes, they track that also so they know how to bill you.

other things you may not know about. they can tell if you pulled the battery out of your phone to end a call or if the battery actually died. This method was brought about by the high number of users trying to beat the system and saying their call dropped, when all they did was pull the battery. they would call the carrier and complain that their call dropped, then they were given credit for the call that dropped, this is FRAUD and people were caught and it eventually stopped the problem. ut that was back when removing a battery was easy

they can find out the signal strength you had at the time of a dropped call (of course this has to be manually setup for troubleshooting by the RF engineering group to collect the info on a case by case basis at the request of a customer).

when you call your bank or credit card company and enter your account # and pin code, that info is available also and its NOT encrypted through ANY phone system
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Old December 1st, 2011, 10:29 PM   #50 (permalink)
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I think it's only a matter of time before CarrierIQ is sued into oblivion and carriers face some heavy duty fines.
I’d rather that gets turned around, that is, CarrierIQ face fines and the carriers are sued into oblivion -- after all, the carriers sought and bought the services offered by CIQ. CIQ is merely the gun here, but the carriers are the trigger-pullers.
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