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Old November 30th, 2013, 11:43 AM   #151 (permalink)
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I think Google's committed to ART. Let's wait it out and see if it's successful on the devices that have it, and I would bet they roll it out to all KitKat devices.

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Old November 30th, 2013, 12:06 PM   #152 (permalink)
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i would hope so. i just see this more likely scenario being they give up on it and say that 'Android doesn't need it'.

Sad part is until it happens either way, my Nexus products feel inferior to iOS products. i can't stand stuttery scrolling or crashing or lag. they don't do it as often as a low end device but enough apps and you definitely see the difference between a Samsung Galaxy S3 with ART enabled and a Nexus 7 with Dalvik only.

My 7 has the new launcher, and there is a big delay, followed by a short black screen, if i ask it to open a specific app like the Play Store or Gmail. 'OK Google, Open Play Store' results in a stuttery transition after it confirms, then after it says 'Opening App' and tries, it shows a blank screen for up to 4 seconds before it actually starts loading. on the Galaxy S3, it instantly comes up perfectly fluid like on an iPhone.
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Old November 30th, 2013, 12:49 PM   #153 (permalink)
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Maybe the N4 is different, but I never noticed lag on 4.2.2 or 4.3 before upgrading to KitKat. Maybe if you're actively looking for it. I say just enjoy your device and stop worrying yourself to death over how it compares to iOS.
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Old November 30th, 2013, 01:00 PM   #154 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickdalzell View Post
My 7 has the new launcher, and there is a big delay, followed by a short black screen, if i ask it to open a specific app like the Play Store or Gmail. 'OK Google, Open Play Store' results in a stuttery transition after it confirms, then after it says 'Opening App' and tries, it shows a blank screen for up to 4 seconds before it actually starts loading. on the Galaxy S3, it instantly comes up perfectly fluid like on an iPhone.
I just tried it on my Droid Maxx (OK Droid Open Play Store) and there was no lag. I could see for less than a second that the screen was black.

Have you tried clearing the Data Cache Partition on the phone with the "lag". This has been proven repeatedly to solve just about all "lag" complaints. (Cause ... it gets filled and then old junk has to be dynamically deleted on the fly to make room for new junk and that is where the delay comes in.)

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Old November 30th, 2013, 01:07 PM   #155 (permalink)
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Dalvik keeps getting full. i come from a life of iOS stuff so Android running with Dalvik always feels half put together. i want so badly to have the same fluid experience i get with iOS, and i do with my phone (finally) but i want it on my tablets too. that's not much to ask. but if i root my Nexus it ceases being a Nexus and no longer gets OTA updates. i run at most 200+ apps/games. i've examined the logcats. i know that Dalvik is inefficient for my use. the issue is worst on the Nexus 10 as it has the most stuff installed. it always reboots itself if it gets too full. i did a logcat to find out the source of the toast pop-ups about 'InternalStorageSpace 1.50MB left' since i know i had more than 12GB remaining, and found out it was the Dalvik cache getting full. soon as it hits 1MB left it will reboot itself.
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Old November 30th, 2013, 01:10 PM   #156 (permalink)
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I suspect you may have full ram, and not full dalvik
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Old November 30th, 2013, 01:22 PM   #157 (permalink)
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full ram is more an issue with me when i use Dalvik. the performance and stability has increased a lot on my GS3. i just want it to translate to my Nexus devices too. i just looked at the rooting tutorials, and to unlock the bootloader does require a wipe. i've never been successful in flashing any ROM on any device without wiping it first. it either goes into a boot loop or crash loop once the launcher appears.

I bought the Nexus products to use them without the need to root, so i always get the most up-to-date Android and i get a stock, pure experience. if i root them they cease being Nexus products and are unable to OTA update.
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Old November 30th, 2013, 01:56 PM   #158 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickdalzell View Post
full ram is more an issue with me when i use Dalvik. the performance and stability has increased a lot on my GS3. i just want it to translate to my Nexus devices too. i just looked at the rooting tutorials, and to unlock the bootloader does require a wipe. i've never been successful in flashing any ROM on any device without wiping it first. it either goes into a boot loop or crash loop once the launcher appears.

I bought the Nexus products to use them without the need to root, so i always get the most up-to-date Android and i get a stock, pure experience. if i root them they cease being Nexus products and are unable to OTA update.
Rooting doesn't prevent Nexus devices from getting updates. However changing the rom, kernel, recovery, bootloader or radio firmware will cause updates to fail and will require you to do some extra work to get them.
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Old November 30th, 2013, 02:17 PM   #159 (permalink)
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Merged thread in Android Lounge with its predecessor from the Nexus 5 forum. Hopefully some of the older posts will prove informative as well as the new ones.
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Old November 30th, 2013, 02:22 PM   #160 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MotoTriumphant View Post
Is it safe to use ART as my daily driver?
Safe, yes, but not all apps are supported - link quoted below.

Quote:
Originally Posted by davoid View Post
So does anyone know what happens if you backup apps using Titanium Backup while in ART and then try to restore those apps on a new rom which is using dalvik runtime (by default)?

I'm on ART at the moment and I'm wondering what form the TB backups are stored in if I back up any new updates or installations.

Should I swap back to dalvik (with the consequent time-consuming app updates on reboot) and do my TB backups in dalvik, then swap back to ART?

I am concerned about having a mix of two types of compiled app in my TB backup folder, where some apps will be incompatible with one runtime, and the rest of the apps incompatible with the other...

And what of my current TB backups (all made while in dalvik runtime)? Will they be incompatible if I stay in ART?
I think you already know the answer to this, so what's the new question -

Quote:
Originally Posted by davoid View Post
Would a Titanium backup of ART re-compiled apps be incompatible with a rom set to dalvic?

I'm just thinking that switching between the two frequently for testing would be incompatible with backing up recent updates to apps, as you would end up with a mix of ART- and dalvic-compatible apps in your titanium backup folder, meaning that at any one time, you would never have all your apps compatible depending on whether you were set to ART or dalvik.
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Please see Android 4.4 KitKat’s ART and App Compatibility – xda-developers and follow the links at the end.

Titanium Backup is NOT compatible at this time.
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Old November 30th, 2013, 04:45 PM   #161 (permalink)
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I wouldn't know what it does for an unsupported app. maybe i'm lucky but my GS3 has yet to random crash or lag or reboot itself at all since i enabled it. apps launch as fluid as an iPhone.

What concerns me with rooting a Nexus is that it involves unlocking the bootloader, a data wipe, and then installing a ROM that supports ART to get it. wouldn't that obviously break updates? i don't want to turn my Nexus into another average tablet where the point of a Nexus is ruined. But i also don't want to not have ART available given the obvious benefits to my Samsung phone. I really don't want to wait another few months and find out Google stopped trying to mess with ART.
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Old November 30th, 2013, 04:51 PM   #162 (permalink)
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The only hangup I've had with ART so far is that it takes about 5 seconds to open the Timely app. Other than that, perfectly and 100% fluid. Much more than can be said for my mom's iPhone 4 which is running iOS 7.
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Old November 30th, 2013, 05:06 PM   #163 (permalink)
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right now my iPad running iOS 7 is more fluid than my Nexus 7 and Nexus 10. Dalvik truly does hold them back. the Nexus 10 constantly has issues with the Dalvik heap getting too full.
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Old November 30th, 2013, 05:13 PM   #164 (permalink)
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Quote:
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right now my iPad running iOS 7 is more fluid than my Nexus 7 and Nexus 10. Dalvik truly does hold them back. the Nexus 10 constantly has issues with the Dalvik heap getting too full.
I've got the 2012 nexus 7 and honestly haven't had issues

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Old November 30th, 2013, 07:51 PM   #165 (permalink)
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doing things on my 2012 7 takes noticeably longer than it does on my S3. I suppose if you've never been spoiled by iOS smoothness you wouldn't notice.
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Old November 30th, 2013, 07:55 PM   #166 (permalink)
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Quote:
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doing things on my 2012 7 takes noticeably longer than it does on my S3. I suppose if you've never been spoiled by iOS smoothness you wouldn't notice.
Could be it. We'll call it blissful ignorance
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Old November 30th, 2013, 10:29 PM   #167 (permalink)
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Not really sure we need another iOS comparison thread and oh woe is Android.

In fact, I'm so sure that iOS is not part of the Dalvik vs ART discussion, I'm declaring the tangent done and out of bounds from here on.

Please use another thread for that, if one cannot be found, feel free to make one.

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Old December 1st, 2013, 06:29 PM   #168 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EarlyMon View Post
I think you already know the answer to this, so what's the new question -
After you posted that useful link, I checked which of my apps would be incompatible with ART, and indeed, Titanium Backup was one of them. However that situation changed with an update that made TB compatible with ART, so I suppose my question is...

Do apps that are restored from Titanium backups get recompiled into ART or dalvik format automatically by android upon their restoration? Because if so, I could happily backup new apps and updates from within ART knowing they would be compatible with any newly flashed rom that defaults to dalvik.
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Old December 1st, 2013, 06:47 PM   #169 (permalink)
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If you're running with Dalvik and doing a TB restore, you want to clear cache and Dalvik in any case and let them rebuild.

I'm not sure if TB backs up odex files or whatever ART uses. Sorry.
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Old December 13th, 2013, 09:40 PM   #170 (permalink)
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I've been using ART now on my galaxy s3 with no problems and it seems very stable and fast as I haven't been using any incompatible apps.

I've been using a custom rom (Temasek's Unofficial CM11) which has been receiving frequent updates and keeps getting better. I'm now running 4.4.2

Cyanogenmod however have said they are going to drop ART from their roms because:

Quote:
Too many inexperienced users are finding it in developer options, and despite not being developers, are attempting to use this as a daily driver feature, and are complaining it doesn't work
Thankfully Temasek says he will retain ART in his roms for the s3 but I'm assuming that that CM roms across all devices will be affected.

Personally I haven't had any problems so it seems a bit over the top. If people do their research they should be alright.
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Old December 21st, 2013, 12:02 AM   #171 (permalink)
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I've never had any problems whatsoever with ART (forced a nightly CM 11 to run on a Galaxy Tab 2 10.1 with ART enabled--huge performance boost over whatever was on it from the factory). what exactly does an app that isn't compatible do? crash, silent crash? reboot the phone/tablet? or just load slow? either i've yet to discover one in my uber huge list of installed apps and games, or i'm just lucky to have no app that is listed as not compatible. Also, if they want to remove Developer features because non-devs are using them, well, they're all experimental (hence developer options, accent on DEVELOPER), why not just remove all of them? Besides, on CM ROMs it pops up a huge warning dialog anyway, however i think rooting itself carries more risks than a runtime change. Also, i've noticed in the 4.4.2 update, none of the Nexii have gotten the option STILL, and the Nexus 10 still has no transparent bars. however, the 10 is no longer as crash happy, and toast alerts now claim there is 5-6GB left (dalvik partition again, i still have 10GB of internal left). still not as fast as the Galaxy Tab to load apps or boot from a power-off condition though.
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Old December 21st, 2013, 09:51 AM   #172 (permalink)
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Quote:
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toast alerts now claim there is 5-6GB left (dalvik partition again, i still have 10GB of internal left).
What are you using to measure the size of the dalvik?
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Old December 21st, 2013, 01:17 PM   #173 (permalink)
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That's unheard of for a Dalvik allocation.
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Old December 22nd, 2013, 01:15 AM   #174 (permalink)
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Only issues I've seen with apps on ART have been WhatsApp (resolved with ART changes made in 4.4.2), and Keepass2Android (won't load a database if using ART). The latter app simply closes.
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Old January 10th, 2014, 04:37 PM   #175 (permalink)
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I've been on ART in AOKP for like three weeks? or so? Of course it's on a gnex so it's on a dinosaur.
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Old January 11th, 2014, 06:02 AM   #176 (permalink)
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Quote:
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I've been on ART in AOKP for like three weeks? or so? Of course it's on a gnex so it's on a dinosaur.
So how is it on the gnex? I remember people saying that when it updated to Jelly Bean it was zippier than the S3 so it might be one of those devices that continually benefits from software improvements - although I appreciate it will eventually reach a hardware-constrained plateau. I know my S3 is amazing on kitkat+ART.
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Old January 16th, 2014, 10:38 AM   #177 (permalink)
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Only issues I've seen with apps on ART have been WhatsApp (resolved with ART changes made in 4.4.2), and Keepass2Android (won't load a database if using ART). The latter app simply closes.
I see you noted the WhatsApp problem with ART, which you said was resolved in KitKat 4.4.2.
Unfortunately I was unaware of the issue and tried to reinstall WhatsApp under ART. This resulted in a known problem in that it wouldn't reinstall even after reverting to Dalvik. The given solutions of factory reinstall or root are not attractive.
Do you know of any other way I can get Whatsapp back?
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Old January 21st, 2014, 11:05 PM   #178 (permalink)
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I converted to ART for a couple of hours on a Droid Maxx running 4.4.

It kept telling me that Google Play Services had stopped.

I reverted.

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Old January 22nd, 2014, 11:02 AM   #179 (permalink)
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Interesting post looking at ART and battery life impact

Meet ART, Part 3: Battery Life Benchmarks - Not Good, But Not Too Bad

My conclusions from that article: Not really much of an impact yet.
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Old January 22nd, 2014, 11:07 AM   #180 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rxpert83 View Post
Interesting post looking at ART and battery life impact

Meet ART, Part 3: Battery Life Benchmarks - Not Good, But Not Too Bad

My conclusions from that article: Not really much of an impact yet.
The Nexus 10 actually benchmarks a lot SLOWER with ART rather than Dalvik, interestingly.
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Old January 22nd, 2014, 12:04 PM   #181 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rxpert83 View Post
Interesting post looking at ART and battery life impact

Meet ART, Part 3: Battery Life Benchmarks - Not Good, But Not Too Bad

My conclusions from that article: Not really much of an impact yet.
Not surprising.



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The Nexus 10 actually benchmarks a lot SLOWER with ART rather than Dalvik, interestingly.
Probably says more about the benchmarks than ART.
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Old January 22nd, 2014, 02:22 PM   #182 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Not surprising.





Probably says more about the benchmarks than ART.
Some devices are faster under ART
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Old January 22nd, 2014, 02:31 PM   #183 (permalink)
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Wasn't the nexus 10 excluded from ART in the OTA?

Could be deeper things going on and Google had a reason for exclusion
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Old January 22nd, 2014, 02:35 PM   #184 (permalink)
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Some devices are faster under ART
According to benchmarks?

Do you believe them?
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Old January 22nd, 2014, 02:39 PM   #185 (permalink)
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According to benchmarks?

Do you believe them?
Depending on the source, yes and no. There's an inherent issue when the software running the benchmark is dependent on the resource that's changed. I have noticed VERY large changes in VERY specific apps in Dalvik vs ART on my One. One game app would take 30-40 seconds to load into a map on Dalvik, and 10-15 on ART.

However, in day to day use, I've noticed no real difference.
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Old January 22nd, 2014, 03:21 PM   #186 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by dibblebill View Post
Depending on the source, yes and no. There's an inherent issue when the software running the benchmark is dependent on the resource that's changed. I have noticed VERY large changes in VERY specific apps in Dalvik vs ART on my One. One game app would take 30-40 seconds to load into a map on Dalvik, and 10-15 on ART.

However, in day to day use, I've noticed no real difference.
Makes sense to me.

I'd expect faster loading for a lot of apps because it's skipping the compilation phase common to Java/Dalvik code.

How noticeable is going to be app and therefore user dependent.
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Old January 31st, 2014, 02:01 PM   #187 (permalink)
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Look like its getting closer!

Recent AOSP Commit Indicates ART Likely To Replace Dalvik In Upcoming Release Of Android

... but still not guaranteed
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The developers may have made the change to simplify testing or to make automated builds easier to manage. It's even possible that this will be reverted in the future. In other words, it's too early to be absolutely sure ART is moving into the #1 position, but it's looking pretty good.
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Old February 4th, 2014, 01:43 AM   #188 (permalink)
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Check out the informative and extremely well-written comments by DannyB2 -

http://phandroid.com/2014/02/03/art-vs-dalvik/

Really very well done!
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Old March 17th, 2014, 12:48 PM   #189 (permalink)
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Hello to all the helpful people on this forum. Can you someone help me with a strange problem? I've got a Nexus 5, rooted, running stock ROM, factory reset, all data erased - in other words, a clean phone.
However, I can't get the bloody thing to switch to ART runtime. Everytime I select it the phone reboots into Dalvik. Any ideas? Thanks heaps!
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Old March 17th, 2014, 12:54 PM   #190 (permalink)
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Hello to all the helpful people on this forum. Can you someone help me with a strange problem? I've got a Nexus 5, rooted, running stock ROM, factory reset, all data erased - in other words, a clean phone.
However, I can't get the bloody thing to switch to ART runtime. Everytime I select it the phone reboots into Dalvik. Any ideas? Thanks heaps!
How much free space do you have? ART needs quite a bit more storage space than Dalvik, so it *could* be that it runs out of space before it finishes building the ART cache.
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Old March 26th, 2014, 03:12 PM   #191 (permalink)
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Looks like the new HTC one has ART, so to answer a concern posted a few months ago, It looks like it will be widely available.
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Old June 19th, 2014, 09:59 AM   #192 (permalink)
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Dalvik Is Dead

Hey Nickdalzell, I have some good news for you. Next version of Android is supposed to be 100% ART. No more Dalvik.
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Old June 19th, 2014, 01:16 PM   #193 (permalink)
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I hate the "Dalvik is Dead" headline. So much.

1) It's not "dead". It won't be "dead" for at least 3+ years, until Dashboards | Android Developers stops showing any devices using anything but the "L" release of Android.

2) That ART is going to replace Dalvik isn't news. It was, back when 4.4 was released, but it isn't anymore. This has been known. That was the entire point of enabling ART as an option.


But I guess "Just Like We Thought ~9 Months Ago, It Looks Like ART Will Eventually Replace Dalvik As The Default Runtime On New Android Releases" doesn't have quite the same ring to it.
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Old June 23rd, 2014, 03:59 AM   #194 (permalink)
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Quote:
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I hate the "Dalvik is Dead" headline
I quite like it. Alliterative simplicity and strength. Might not be true but I like it. And it reminds me of Daleks.
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Old July 3rd, 2014, 11:12 PM   #195 (permalink)
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Your right ART is nothing new we've never seen before. But its only been developers to use. But at Google I/O its been announced it will be the regular runtime replacing dalvik. DALVIK IS DEAD! ART IS THE FUTURE!!!
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Old July 4th, 2014, 12:14 AM   #196 (permalink)
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Um...anybody's been able to use it.

I've been using it exclusively since it came out in November.
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Old August 9th, 2014, 09:54 PM   #197 (permalink)
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Nexus 4 android l developer preview do u need root to get it?
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Old August 10th, 2014, 02:13 PM   #198 (permalink)
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Nexus 4 android l developer preview do u need root to get it?
You'll need an unlocked boot loader and a custom recovery.

These are steps taken during the rooting process, but root permissions itself isnt required.
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Old August 11th, 2014, 05:30 PM   #199 (permalink)
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There is no official Developer Preview for the Nexus 4, only some hacked versions produced on XDA.
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