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Old March 3rd, 2013, 02:40 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Lease a rip-off or not?

So I am dying to get a 2013, but the only way I can afford the payments is if I lease.

I plan to buy car at end of lease, with the understanding I will still be able to get payments in the 250 range at that time.

2013 Camry SE is car I have eye on, lease deals are usually around 200 to 219 a month. I have a 5,000 trade-in and I'm looking at a fully loaded SE sitting at around 28,000.

I'd be interested to hear anything info, advice, whatever that anyone could spare.....

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Old March 4th, 2013, 08:30 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Having done two leases for my wife prior to buying the last car, it didn't work for us. Both times we wanted to buy out at the end and both times it was too pricey. We were left then left with no vehicle equity and an expired lease. So for me, I'll stay away from leasing.
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Old March 4th, 2013, 08:49 AM   #3 (permalink)
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I plan to buy car at end of lease
We all say this when we lease a car, but after the 2 or 3 years is up it's very very tempting to get the newer model that is out at the time you turn your lease in for darn near the same amount you were paying. Trust me...been there done that 4 times.

If you truly plan to buy it out right at the end then I say go ahead.
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Old March 4th, 2013, 08:57 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Lease a rip-off or not?

There are some benefits to leasing, but generally the idea is to only lease the car if you don't plan keeping it at the end. Leasing is good if you constantly like to have new cars, you lease vehicles that maintain their value (high residual), and take good care of it. One benefit of continuing leasing is that your vehicle will always be under warranty as long as you pick the right length.
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Old March 4th, 2013, 12:25 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I did alot of research prior leasing and here are the things I came accross. Look for deals, local lease companies have good deals sometimes on various cars, if you are willing to look at different cars its a good idea to lease. I'm not sure about Toyota but Honda gives you $1500 for scratches and dents at the end of the lease, so if your bumper is scratched and side is dented (moderately) you are not going to have to pay for it. There are companies who are going to charge you for every scratch in and outside of the car.

If you are looking to buy a car after lease, make sure you negotiate the price of the car first and then the lease. Also if you have cash you can finish lease, buy it off and resell it for more what you paid at the end.

There is a thing such as one time payment lease, but I wouldn't recommend it. Also you are paying $500 in bank fees when you lease. Its not a bad idea to lease if you want to lift your credit history as well.

Generally speaking some people lease cars and do 25k miles a year on it. At the end of the term they roll back the miles. This makes it a terrific deal, but its risky. Its a federal crime. If you get into accident, they write your miles and you are stuck. You are not going to be able to get service at the dealership.
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Old March 5th, 2013, 08:09 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Same in the UK, it's a crime to alter the miles. But not if you have to replace the Speedo/Odo, and document the change (keep receipts). The changed mileage should show on the next MOT (annual safety check).
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Old March 8th, 2013, 06:10 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Lease a rip-off or not?

How did this turn into a discussion of fraud?! Lol
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Old March 9th, 2013, 01:22 PM   #8 (permalink)
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How did this turn into a discussion of fraud?! Lol
It's all your fault!

As far as leasing, it really only makes sense for people looking to get the new model every couple of years. You can come out ahead buying at the end but you can also get taken to the cleaners if it is a popular model.

As far as the lower payments, they also come with major restrictions like mileage limits.

My stepfather was a very well known and respected attorney, I can't give all the particulars of what he said but in a nutshell he said any benefit to leasing can also be had from buying and then some, he is totally opposed to leasing under any circumstance. The reason the dealerships want to push people into a lease is they make more money than off a purchase.
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Old March 11th, 2013, 07:39 AM   #9 (permalink)
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yes but lease is very convenient if you need a reliable car and you make decent amount of money as well.
if you make $500+ a day and you job depends on reliable vehicle, why bother financing. When car is going to give you troubles after a while and you lose crazy amount of money sitting without a job, lease is not a bad option.
I've seen great lease deals such as.
http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/hot-deals/1202770/
http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/hot-deals/1188213/
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Old March 11th, 2013, 09:40 AM   #10 (permalink)
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In all honesty, I'm not sure it's a sound idea financially to pay for 8 years on the car (3 years on lease, 5 years - or maybe less if you can - to buy it out). Why not look at something more affordable that you can get the payments into your affordability range? Do you NEED all the options that $30,000 vehicle has on it?

Sure, you WANT a new car, maybe scale down the features to make it affordable. I did that, I dropped from Limited to Premium (2011 Subaru Outback) and it put the vehicle in my price range (saved $3,000 in the process).
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Old March 11th, 2013, 10:18 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Going back to the mileage fraud: a friend of mine, years ago, opened up a speedo in order to 'fix' the mileage and found a note saying "Oh no, not again".

Re leasing: I'd really like a new car, but I would never buy one: the depreciation is just way too painful!

I recently got a 2.5 year old beemer with 16K on the clock and 6 months to run on the original warranty (plenty of time to find any issues) and saved about a quarter to a third on the price when new. Admittedly, it took some time to find the bargain I was looking for but then a colleague had to wait almost as long when he bought one new.

I also only buy what I can afford to buy outright - no loans or leases. I just hate to pay out money month after month when I can save up and get interest on my savings rather than pay interest on a loan/lease.
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Old March 11th, 2013, 09:08 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Default Re: Lease a rip-off or not?

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In all honesty, I'm not sure it's a sound idea financially to pay for 8 years on the car (3 years on lease, 5 years - or maybe less if you can - to buy it out). Why not look at something more affordable that you can get the payments into your affordability range? Do you NEED all the options that $30,000 vehicle has on it?

Sure, you WANT a new car, maybe scale down the features to make it affordable. I did that, I dropped from Limited to Premium (2011 Subaru Outback) and it put the vehicle in my price range (saved $3,000 in the process).
Of course I NEED all that!

I'm being greedy, I'll be honest. But I wants what I wants





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Going back to the mileage fraud: a friend of mine, years ago, opened up a speedo in order to 'fix' the mileage and found a note saying "Oh no, not again".

Re leasing: I'd really like a new car, but I would never buy one: the depreciation is just way too painful!

I recently got a 2.5 year old beemer with 16K on the clock and 6 months to run on the original warranty (plenty of time to find any issues) and saved about a quarter to a third on the price when new. Admittedly, it took some time to find the bargain I was looking for but then a colleague had to wait almost as long when he bought one new.

I also only buy what I can afford to buy outright - no loans or leases. I just hate to pay out money month after month when I can save up and get interest on my savings rather than pay interest on a loan/lease.
I've bought my last 3 cars outright. There is even a chance I may buy my dream car outright.

But if not, I WILL have me a new car, with less than 10 miles (or so) on the odometer. Fresh as today's milk
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Old March 12th, 2013, 07:37 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Champagne tastes on a beer budget.

I've been through this. Years ago I REALLY wanted a particular vehicle. In the end it was just too much money and I really had no NEED for the vehicle, saved myself initial cost and gas money by buying something more sensible.

Maybe some costs can be cut by losing some option packages that aren't a necessity. Yes, pushbutton start is nice, I kinda wish I had it myself, but to get it on an Outback requires upgrading to the Limited and then adding another $3,000 option package on top of that. Just not worth it for not having to rotate the key to start the engine. Bluetooth connectivity would have been nice, but I have a headset that works perfectly and nobody else in the car can hear the conversation.

I've heard it before, emotions should take a back seat (no pun intended) in vehicle purchasing. What you WANT is most likely going to be more than what you NEED and what you can afford. I would LOVE to have a Corvette, I certainly can't afford it though...

On the depreciation front. It totally depends on the vehicle. Granted, I had a decent down payment, but my Subaru is only 18 months old and I'm not upside-down on the value, the OP likely won't be either with a $5,000 down payment. It might have been mentioned in this thread (I read it SOMEWHERE), if you absolutely plan on buying out, negotiate price NOW. Even if you plan on leasing, talk them down some. Also, when you buy out at the end, remember that you will NOT be able to get a new-car interest rate on that loan, it'll be a used-car rate.
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Old March 12th, 2013, 07:41 AM   #14 (permalink)
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IMO any time you don't pay cash for a car you've got ripped off.
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Old March 12th, 2013, 11:58 AM   #15 (permalink)
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But if not, I WILL have me a new car, with less than 10 miles (or so) on the odometer. Fresh as today's milk


Good for you.

Somebody has to buy 'em new so cheapskates like myself can get 'em used
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Old March 12th, 2013, 12:25 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Good for you.

Somebody has to buy 'em new so cheapskates like myself can get 'em used
That's what I'm saying. You lose like 20% of the value in the first year and like 40-50% in the first 5 years if I remember correctly. You are sick of your car after 5 years and I sneak in and buy it for half of what you paid. Works for me.
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Old March 12th, 2013, 04:55 PM   #17 (permalink)
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coming back to lease. Sandy passed by NYC, about 100,000 were total lost. My friend leased and he got a new car a week later at rge same rate. Many who had financed had to go to war with their insurance companies for months.

I really hate like my rear bumper looks like lumber jack had fun with it with his axe. During my lease I don't care that much, its all covered by $1500 scratch and dent.

If you get into medium serious accident and car starts giving you issues after repairs, you don't care if you leased.

I really don't see point of leasing if you live in country side, have your own driveway and parking is not an issue. Oh, and don't forget that you need to drive to pick up your mail or to get can of soda. No point to lease.
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Old March 12th, 2013, 05:28 PM   #18 (permalink)
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coming back to lease. Sandy passed by NYC, about 100,000 were total lost. My friend leased and he got a new car a week later at rge same rate. Many who had financed had to go to war with their insurance companies for months.

I really hate like my rear bumper looks like lumber jack had fun with it with his axe. During my lease I don't care that much, its all covered by $1500 scratch and dent.

If you get into medium serious accident and car starts giving you issues after repairs, you don't care if you leased.

I really don't see point of leasing if you live in country side, have your own driveway and parking is not an issue. Oh, and don't forget that you need to drive to pick up your mail or to get can of soda. No point to lease.
If those in Sandy had gone my route of paying for the car outright then the insurance company would simply pony up on the perfectly legit claim (what you don't have full coverage?) and you'd go buy something else.
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Old March 12th, 2013, 09:03 PM   #19 (permalink)
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If those in Sandy had gone my route of paying for the car outright then the insurance company would simply pony up on the perfectly legit claim (what you don't have full coverage?) and you'd go buy something else.
FYI I have 2 cars and one is financed another one is leased. Financed car is going to get run to the ground by my parents. The leased one is getting its 4 banger engine to 7-8k rpm all the time. I never warm it up. I don't care if I don't change the oil on time or it's going to be changed a little later. etc.


insurance try to cheat you everyway they can. You are lucky if you had geico who handled it nicely. My friend's insurance told him they didnt know the odometer reading so they offered a lot less for the car. You still lose tax and other dealership fees that you pay for the car, insurance does not cover it.
What if you don't have the money to pay out right the way?

Bottom line is you can wear a casio on your hand, some choose to wear Rolex, Omega, TAG. If you have enough money, why not.

I hope you realize there are people who don't even know how to put in a washing liquid into the car. This kind of people are getting taken for a ride by the mechanics all the time. Lease is convenient to them.
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Old March 12th, 2013, 11:18 PM   #20 (permalink)
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I was offered 0.9% financing for 36 months on my Y2K Mustang. Since my investment account was making well over 10% it was a no-brainer. By keeping my capital invested and earning money, I made far more profit (even after taxes) from the investment fund than I paid in interest.

I've also leased a car that I really couldn't afford, and ended up paying dearly for my excesses.

The bottom line is that you can use financing and leasing to get you in a car that's otherwise beyond your means. But if you're not careful, that can end in repossession and lawsuits. If you want to be financially smart, you can take advantage of very low interest rate offers to save you money in the end. And if you have to ask about how to do it, paying cash might be for you.
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Old March 13th, 2013, 02:13 AM   #21 (permalink)
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I was offered 0.9% financing for 36 months on my Y2K Mustang. Since my investment account was making well over 10% it was a no-brainer. By keeping my capital invested and earning money, I made far more profit (even after taxes) from the investment fund than I paid in interest.

I've also leased a car that I really couldn't afford, and ended up paying dearly for my excesses.

The bottom line is that you can use financing and leasing to get you in a car that's otherwise beyond your means. But if you're not careful, that can end in repossession and lawsuits. If you want to be financially smart, you can take advantage of very low interest rate offers to save you money in the end. And if you have to ask about how to do it, paying cash might be for you.

exactly correct. Thats why rich businessman who can afford to buy home for cash stil get the mortgages and loans. They use the cash to make even more money from the investments.

Lease sounds nice when it comes to luxury cars, prices are so relatively low because of high residual value of the vehicles.

It's not the bedt idea to buy car for cash, unless you really know how its done. Trick is to scan for dealerships who are in finamcial troubles.
more on it here if anyone is interested http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/finance/1001920/

Leasing a car for $200 bucks a month is not the worst financial decision that you can make. Big plus is rise of your credit history.

Idea of lease is to pay as little as possible upfront. There are one time payment lease option, but its not wise at all. If car gets stolen or total loss by let's say something like Sandy, all your money are gone.

also, what if you are not satisfied with the car you got? there are options to upgrdae your lease, in worst case scenario you are stuck with it for 3 yrs or whatever is your lease term.
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Old March 13th, 2013, 07:32 AM   #22 (permalink)
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The problem is still that you're buying a car beyond your means. Why? Leasing is, from a purely mathematical perspective, the most expensive way to get a car. Financing is the second most expensive way to get a car. The cheapest is to buy a quality used car somewhere and pay cash for it.
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Old March 13th, 2013, 08:34 AM   #23 (permalink)
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The problem is still that you're buying a car beyond your means. Why? Leasing is, from a purely mathematical perspective, the most expensive way to get a car. Financing is the second most expensive way to get a car. The cheapest is to buy a quality used car somewhere and pay cash for it.
it is more expensive to lease a car, but it has nothing to do with getting a car beyond your means. If your rent+bills +lease+insurance is less than 1/3 of your monthly salary and you don't have any extra money spend. You can easily afford it.
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Old March 13th, 2013, 08:54 AM   #24 (permalink)
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it is more expensive to lease a car, but it has nothing to do with getting a car beyond your means. If your rent+bills +lease+insurance is less than 1/3 of your monthly salary and you don't have any extra money spend. You can easily afford it.
Being able to afford it doesn't mean you should though. But set aside whether you should or not and let's discuss whether you really can afford it. The fact is you can't. The average lease payment (per Edmunds) is $412 a month. Let's say you lease a car from now 'til doomsday. Now, you will always have newer (1-3 yr old) cars while I'm driving cars that are 4+ years old. But I'm taking that $412 a month and investing it instead. So you're giving a car company $412 a month while I'm putting $412 a month into the stock market. The market averages 10% long term so in just a 30 yr period I have $901,773.45. You have nothing. There are some growth stock funds out there that average 12%. If I get just 2% more on my investment I end up with $1,348,670.13. So you have a string of newer cars and I have nearly $1.5 mil. What if I'm half wrong? I've still got half a million dollars. If you're like 99% of Americans, you can't afford the new/leased car.

Now, maybe you are filthy rich and you are already a millionaire. In that case you're better off paying cash for the car just to avoid the finance and leasing charges. You still take a huge butt kicking on depreciation, but if you're a millionaire you can afford it.
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Old March 13th, 2013, 12:10 PM   #25 (permalink)
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and all you are going to have to do is take your 1mil to your wooden casket. You are compairing walking to leasing car. Its like compairing living in the box and savings every penny to enjoying life at your possible means.

You are not reading a thing I posted. There was a deal on Honda Accord SE. Total payment add up to $5500 for 3 years. You'd have to own a $21,000 car for over 11
years just to get the overall price per month to
match this deal. How is it bad? no tire changes, no brake jobs. Now how much is it goinh to cost after 11 years with 130k miles on it. Probably not more than 5k. Add the number of money you had to spend on all maintenances, parts, repairs etc.
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Old March 13th, 2013, 12:23 PM   #26 (permalink)
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and all you are going to have to do is take your 1mil to your wooden casket. You are compairing walking to leasing car. Its like compairing living in the box and savings every penny to enjoying life at your possible means.

You are not reading a thing I posted. There was a deal on Honda Accord SE. Total payment add up to $5500 for 3 years. You'd have to own a $21,000 car for over 11
years just to get the overall price per month to
match this deal. How is it bad? no tire changes, no brake jobs.
No, I'm comparing paying cash for a car vs leasing. I'm comparing paying $5-10k for a good quality used car vs leasing a car. I paid $7k for my car about 3.5 yrs ago for example. If you leased a car at the same time your lease would be up and you'd be getting a new car. Meanwhile, my car continues to truck along costing me nothing in payments. In another 3 yrs I will still have my car that I paid $7k for while you'll be $11k and still be looking for another car.

In short, you're tying up your money making payments to other people while I am stashing my money away where it works for me.
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Old March 13th, 2013, 12:52 PM   #27 (permalink)
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No, I'm comparing paying cash for a car vs leasing. I'm comparing paying $5-10k for a good quality used car vs leasing a car. I paid $7k for my car about 3.5 yrs ago for example. If you leased a car at the same time your lease would be up and you'd be getting a new car. Meanwhile, my car continues to truck along costing me nothing in payments. In another 3 yrs I will still have my car that I paid $7k for while you'll be $11k and still be looking for another car.

In short, you're tying up your money making payments to other people while I am stashing my money away where it works for me.

What was the last time you have seen good quality car for 5k? How much valuable time you are going to spend searching for a nice car for 5k.
We are not talking about some car enthusiasts here, we are talking about married person with kids who has to make money, take care of kids, his health, career and have social life.
You paid 7.5k for your car. how much money have you put into it already? How much does it worth now? How much time and effort you are going to have to put into trying to sell it? in 3 years your used car value has dropped value dramatically, its not so great on gas and you have spend losts of money on parts and some necessary maintance.

assume you spent 7k on your beater in 3 years it only cost 4k. You have bought new tires, brakes, changed starter, battery, candles, few things are not working properly and you spend some money on necessary repairs. You are still a winner in financial point of view if your beater did not give you any serious issues along the way.

Meanwhile I paid $5500 to drive new car off the lot for 3yrs. I don't care about repairs, tires etc. Not to mention my MPG is much better, so I save in gas.

Please take your million dollar math elsewhere.
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Old March 13th, 2013, 01:09 PM   #28 (permalink)
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I had to go check what I actually paid for it. I pulled up my ebay invoice and found I paid $6500 for it. According to Kelley Blue Book it is worth $7k in good condition. So, after 3.5 yrs KBB claims I could sell it for a profit. Realistically I could get at least $6k out of it locally I think. This is the HUGE advantage of used cars. At a certain point there value stops going down significantly.

Maintenance on my car has been minimum. You are spending $5500 over 3 years on a car. I'm spending $0. If I end up having to spend more than $5500 in repairs then I have a freaking lemon and why in the world am I sticking with it? Also, at the end of the 3 years you have spend $5500 and now have nothing. At the end of the 3 years I still have my $7500 car. Even if I did spend $5500 in maintenance (which would be insane) I can still sell my car and get some of that back. You have nothing.

It is a fact that leasing a car is the most expensive way to own a car. That's not my assertion, that's Consumer Reports and Edmunds saying that.
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Old March 13th, 2013, 01:26 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Also, if I was going to buy a car today, I'd probably buy something like this one - Honda : Civic Hybrid Sedan 4-Door in Honda | eBay Motors

It's 8 yrs old, has low miles on it and it's a Civic so it's got a good reliability record. They're asking $10k for it. I would offer then $8k myself. Took me about 30 seconds to find it on ebay.
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Old March 13th, 2013, 02:33 PM   #30 (permalink)
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My first car was a great car. It was a used 1992 Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera S. I paid $1800 for it, plus $600 on tires, alignment, and brakes. It only had 92,000 miles on it and no real reliabilty issues. Even the interior was like-new. Just gotta know how to look.

I see no issue with financing my Volkswagen Jetta TDI. Brand new, had 34 miles on it from test drives. It should last me about 350,000 miles or so. But most importantly, I really enjoy that car. I loved the Olds, but I can afford the TDI and its financing, and Ilike it, so its worth it to me.

I refused to lease it, though. Why pay out that much money for something I don't own? Its wasted. A bit more and I can keep the car in 6 years. :-)
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Old March 13th, 2013, 08:57 PM   #31 (permalink)
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All this talk is making me want to upgrade. I've had my car for 3 yrs I could sell it for what I paid for, tack another $2-3k on it and buy a pretty nice car for $10k. Can't bring myself to sell a perfectly good vehicle though. Oh well.
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Old March 15th, 2013, 12:03 AM   #32 (permalink)
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That's what I'm saying. You lose like 20% of the value in the first year and like 40-50% in the first 5 years if I remember correctly. You are sick of your car after 5 years and I sneak in and buy it for half of what you paid. Works for me.
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FYI I have 2 cars and one is financed another one is leased. Financed car is going to get run to the ground by my parents. The leased one is getting its 4 banger engine to 7-8k rpm all the time. I never warm it up. I don't care if I don't change the oil on time or it's going to be changed a little later. etc.
Are you joking? This will make me reconsider before ever purchasing a previously leased car.
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Old March 15th, 2013, 10:58 AM   #33 (permalink)
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Default Re: Lease a rip-off or not?

Everyone is making really good points and arguments here. I really appreciate all the opinions and good solid info.

Fact is that I have a 08 carry with 165k on it that I bought outright for 5,5k plus my 14 year old camry (it was a 98)

I have that new car urge and don't want a 400 dollar payment. 209 is right up my alley, and unless I'm miraculously making 6 figures at the end of 3 years I'm buying the car at end of lease, no question about that.

Of course, I may have a settlement coming in, in which case I will fork over the 30k upfront (after I haggle the crap out of the dealer) and with warranties and service agreements not worry about anything for at least the first 100k

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Old March 15th, 2013, 11:18 AM   #34 (permalink)
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Compare the Costs: Buying vs. Leasing vs. Buying a Used Car

Edmunds actually does a really in-depth breakdown of the numbers. Compares buying a new car vs leasing a new car vs buying a 3 yr old used car. Costs almost $16k more to own/operate a leased car over a 3 yr old car. If you're doing $16k of maint on your car over a 5 yr period you've got a lemon.
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Old March 15th, 2013, 07:15 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Everyone is making really good points and arguments here. I really appreciate all the opinions and good solid info.

Fact is that I have a 08 carry with 165k on it that I bought outright for 5,5k plus my 14 year old camry (it was a 98)

I have that new car urge and don't want a 400 dollar payment. 209 is right up my alley, and unless I'm miraculously making 6 figures at the end of 3 years I'm buying the car at end of lease, no question about that.

Of course, I may have a settlement coming in, in which case I will fork over the 30k upfront (after I haggle the crap out of the dealer) and with warranties and service agreements not worry about anything for at least the first 100k

One thing I like about leasing, is if you do the standard 36 month, 36,000 mile lease then the car is covered under warranty. After the warranty period runs out then it's someone else's problem. That being said, you can always buy an extended warranty for up to 100,000 miles.
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Compare the Costs: Buying vs. Leasing vs. Buying a Used Car

Edmunds actually does a really in-depth breakdown of the numbers. Compares buying a new car vs leasing a new car vs buying a 3 yr old used car. Costs almost $16k more to own/operate a leased car over a 3 yr old car. If you're doing $16k of maint on your car over a 5 yr period you've got a lemon.
I like to buy three or four year cars, as they are still newish and not as expensive as buying a new car. However I'll always buy an extended warranty as I learned not doing so is more expensive in the long run.
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Old March 15th, 2013, 11:07 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by A.Nonymous View Post
Compare the Costs: Buying vs. Leasing vs. Buying a Used Car

Edmunds actually does a really in-depth breakdown of the numbers. Compares buying a new car vs leasing a new car vs buying a 3 yr old used car. Costs almost $16k more to own/operate a leased car over a 3 yr old car. If you're doing $16k of maint on your car over a 5 yr period you've got a lemon.
That is true about the lemon, possibility of that is pretty high now days if you live someone around east coast, because there are many flooded cars around.
Maybe I'm missing something from their site, but where are they getting the lease numbers from.
I did not exactly got the best lease deal but here it is.

they have on $30000 car for 1 year.
Down Payment
$1,364
Monthly payment $433 per month $4,763
Insurance
$2,581
Maintenance & repairs $194
Taxes and DMV Fees $1,357
TOTAL $8,895


You can lease a $43000 car for this money. here is the reference.Acura MDX - $379.26 a month + Acquisition Fee + Tax
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Old March 16th, 2013, 08:15 AM   #37 (permalink)
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other thing is used cars market is extremely overpriced right now. Thanks to financial crisis, cash for clunkers and few other things. When its going to go down you are no longer going to get that much money for used cars.

It actually makes sanse to buy a new car right now, bexause used market is a rip off for sure
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Old March 16th, 2013, 08:24 AM   #38 (permalink)
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Also, if I was going to buy a car today, I'd probably buy something like this one - Honda : Civic Hybrid Sedan 4-Door in Honda | eBay Motors

It's 8 yrs old, has low miles on it and it's a Civic so it's got a good reliability record. They're asking $10k for it. I would offer then $8k myself. Took me about 30 seconds to find it on ebay.

You are arguing about lease and used without realizing that used cars are extremely overpriced right now.
My good friend got 2005 honda Odyssey EXL with 70k miles in 2009 for $12000. Car lasted well until he got into car accident. Car was repaired but issues started to pop up. He had to change his engine mounts later one, for some reason a set of the mounts is about $700 plus the labor,(http://www.partsgeek.com/gbproducts/WC/18373-01100598.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=ff&utm_ content=YN&utm_campaign=PartsGeek+Google+Base&utm_ term=2005-2007+Honda+Odyssey+Engine+Mount+Genuine+W0133-1855453+Rear+05-07+Honda+Engine+Mount+2006+06&fp=pp&gbm=a&gclid=CM CoxsGqgbYCFbGPPAodLFgAIA here is the reference, one mount is $500) that was just one issue with the car.
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Old March 16th, 2013, 09:18 AM   #39 (permalink)
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You are arguing about lease and used without realizing that used cars are extremely overpriced right now.
My good friend got 2005 honda Odyssey EXL with 70k miles in 2009 for $12000. Car lasted well until he got into car accident. Car was repaired but issues started to pop up. He had to change his engine mounts later one, for some reason a set of the mounts is about $700 plus the labor,(2005-2007 Honda Odyssey Engine Mount - Engine Mechanical - Genuine, Rear 05-07 Odyssey Engine Mount - 18373-01100598 - PartsGeek here is the reference, one mount is $500) that was just one issue with the car.
So, you are saying that if he got in the same accident with a brand new car he wouldn't have any problems with his engine mounts? That is a ridiculously silly argument.
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Old March 16th, 2013, 12:06 PM   #40 (permalink)
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So, you are saying that if he got in the same accident with a brand new car he wouldn't have any problems with his engine mounts? That is a ridiculously silly argument.

here is the thing, car was running fine, a little bit of shaking at stops. It was probably time to change them anyway. If it was a new car it would most likely to be covered by factory warranty. Even if not I don't think it would break down transmission for few years while car would be leased.

He also lost few thousand at selling it because it was in a structural damage. Plus the costs of extra repairs. He leases his car right not, no issues so far.
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Old March 16th, 2013, 12:36 PM   #41 (permalink)
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here is the thing, car was running fine, a little bit of shaking at stops. It was probably time to change them anyway. If it was a new car it would most likely to be covered by factory warranty. Even if not I don't think it would break down transmission for few years while car would be leased.

He also lost few thousand at selling it because it was in a structural damage. Plus the costs of extra repairs. He leases his car right not, no issues so far.
No issues with the car, but he's still paying far, far, far more in lease payments. He spends $700 in car repairs vs $4k plus (your number, not mine) in payments). Plus, he got something out of selling it while with a lease you get nothing.
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Old March 16th, 2013, 02:34 PM   #42 (permalink)
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No issues with the car, but he's still paying far, far, far more in lease payments. He spends $700 in car repairs vs $4k plus (your number, not mine) in payments). Plus, he got something out of selling it while with a lease you get nothing.

lease is for convenient not mpney savings that is true. I'm just trying to point out that it's not that much of a difference as much as you are trying to point out. lease is more expensive thats obvious, but sometimes you save valuable time and few bucks on repairs.
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Old March 16th, 2013, 03:48 PM   #43 (permalink)
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lease is for convenient not mpney savings that is true. I'm just trying to point out that it's not that much of a difference as much as you are trying to point out. lease is more expensive thats obvious, but sometimes you save valuable time and few bucks on repairs.
It really is a whole lot more though. You don't save time 'cuz you're going to go look for cars anyway. You're not going to go into the lot and lease the first car you lay eyes on. You're going to go around to different lots, drive different cars, research models online, etc..... It's the exact same thing you'd do if you bought a car. So the time savings just isn't there at all. What you pay in repairs is less than what you pay in payments.

For example, let's say I buy a used car for $10k and you lease a new car for $4k a year like you mentioned. Let's say we both ditch our cars after three years and are in the market for something new. Right off the bat, I'm paying less. You're paying $12k in payments and I'm paying $10k. (We're not even factoring in fees and other costs that are going to make your cost higher.) But you pay nothing for maintenance on your car and if your car breaks down you pay nothing so maybe it all evens out.

You've got to do an oil change every 3 months. Let's say I'm spending $100 every three months on an oil change. This is, of course, an absurd price to pay for an oil change, but I'm getting hose and don't realize it. So I pay $400 a year in oil changes. Let's also say that during that three year period I end up paying for a major repair to the tune of $1,000. So I paid $1200 over three years in overpriced oil changes, plus $1k in a major repair bill and now after three years you are out $12k and I'm out $12,200. So, the costs of owning them both are virtually the same right? Wrong. Because we've left out one thing. I own my car. After three years you have nothing and are in the market for another vehicle. After three years I sell my car and am in the market for another vehicle. Even if my car lost half it's value (which is as absurd as the $100 oil changes), I am left with $5k in cash and my car cost me $7200 to operate compared to $12000 for you. Your car cost ~40% more to operate and you are left with nothing. My car cost 40% less and I have $5k in my pocket that I can use for another vehicle. This is assuming high maintenance costs and a low re-sale value on my car. The reality is the difference is probably more.

It's a free country. If you want to lease cars your whole life you certainly can. Personally, I think it's kind of foolish because you are flushing away money that you could be investing/saving. Over the course of a lifetime that money really, really adds up. That's why I said I hope you like the car. Over the course of your lifetime it will cost you close to a million dollars to lease a car / buy a new car. To me it's not worth it. I'd rather have a million in my pocket when I retire. Even if I'm half wrong, I'd rather have half a million in my pocket.
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Old March 16th, 2013, 04:34 PM   #44 (permalink)
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It really is a whole lot more though. You don't save time 'cuz you're going to go look for cars anyway. You're not going to go into the lot and lease the first car you lay eyes on. You're going to go around to different lots, drive different cars, research models online, etc..... It's the exact same thing you'd do if you bought a car. So the time savings just isn't there at all. What you pay in repairs is less than what you pay in payments.

For example, let's say I buy a used car for $10k and you lease a new car for $4k a year like you mentioned. Let's say we both ditch our cars after three years and are in the market for something new. Right off the bat, I'm paying less. You're paying $12k in payments and I'm paying $10k. (We're not even factoring in fees and other costs that are going to make your cost higher.) But you pay nothing for maintenance on your car and if your car breaks down you pay nothing so maybe it all evens out.

You've got to do an oil change every 3 months. Let's say I'm spending $100 every three months on an oil change. This is, of course, an absurd price to pay for an oil change, but I'm getting hose and don't realize it. So I pay $400 a year in oil changes. Let's also say that during that three year period I end up paying for a major repair to the tune of $1,000. So I paid $1200 over three years in overpriced oil changes, plus $1k in a major repair bill and now after three years you are out $12k and I'm out $12,200. So, the costs of owning them both are virtually the same right? Wrong. Because we've left out one thing. I own my car. After three years you have nothing and are in the market for another vehicle. After three years I sell my car and am in the market for another vehicle. Even if my car lost half it's value (which is as absurd as the $100 oil changes), I am left with $5k in cash and my car cost me $7200 to operate compared to $12000 for you. Your car cost ~40% more to operate and you are left with nothing. My car cost 40% less and I have $5k in my pocket that I can use for another vehicle. This is assuming high maintenance costs and a low re-sale value on my car. The reality is the difference is probably more.

It's a free country. If you want to lease cars your whole life you certainly can. Personally, I think it's kind of foolish because you are flushing away money that you could be investing/saving. Over the course of a lifetime that money really, really adds up. That's why I said I hope you like the car. Over the course of your lifetime it will cost you close to a million dollars to lease a car / buy a new car. To me it's not worth it. I'd rather have a million in my pocket when I retire. Even if I'm half wrong, I'd rather have half a million in my pocket.
I did not go around lots looking for cars, I mailed 10 (roughly speaking) dealerships around town, wrote them what I want, I ended up at pretty big dealership, 3 hours later I had my brand new car.

I'm looking for a used car right now I've already spent hours and hours online, few days going around dealerships, few days visiting private parties. I know what you are going to tell me "lease another one", sorry can't I need to send that car overseas. So most of cars either crap, or have been in some serious accident, or sellers just want way too much for it. I'm already ready to give up that idea because it's taking too much time that I don't have.

I save enough money every month (I cook, I cook lunch, I don't even have cable TV in my home, I only buy things on sale and do not wear expensive clothing, I take bicycle to work) and I can afford to buy far better car than my Honda Accord. I choose to lease it
a)I and my girlfriend wanted to build credit history
b)neither of us were really good drivers and we decided that we can get something else after 3 years.
c) I work 6 days a week +overtimes, she does too, we simply do not have time to repair our car, our wasted time costs money. I agree even new car can break down, but probability of that is very low.
d)it's great on gas and we got insurance quote lower for new car than for used one. Go figure why. So we save on gas and insurance.
e)It's mostly driven by my girlfriend who is a manager of about 30 people. I wanted here to look presentable without breaking our budget.

I like the car it's simple, spacious, good on gas. If there will be something better on the market in 3 years just because gas is going to hit $5 per gallon really soon and there will be new technologies.

Convenience.
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Old March 16th, 2013, 05:24 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Your "convenience" is costing you a million bucks over the course of your lifetime. For me, that's not even close to being worth it. Personally I don't think it's "more convenient" myself, but even if it is, is it a million bucks worth of convenient? You're going to trade being a millionaire for "convenience"? To me that's ridiculous. Few millionaires drive new cars. Just pointing that out.
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Old March 16th, 2013, 08:15 PM   #46 (permalink)
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Default Re: Lease a rip-off or not?

Quote:
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That is true about the lemon, possibility of that is pretty high now days if you live someone around east coast, because there are many flooded cars around.
Maybe I'm missing something from their site, but where are they getting the lease numbers from.
I did not exactly got the best lease deal but here it is.

they have on $30000 car for 1 year.
Down Payment
$1,364
Monthly payment $433 per month $4,763
Insurance
$2,581
Maintenance & repairs $194
Taxes and DMV Fees $1,357
TOTAL $8,895


You can lease a $43000 car for this money. here is the reference.Acura MDX - $379.26 a month + Acquisition Fee + Tax
Agreed, I'm looking at payments of around 220 for a 28k vehicle that I will be buying at the end of three years.

There will be ZERO maintenance fees and my trade in is my down payment. While yes, I am ending up with nothing st end of 3 years, I will be negotiating to buy a used car that I know EXACTLY what and where it has been and how it has been maintained.

I'll take that





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Your "convenience" is costing you a million bucks over the course of your lifetime. For me, that's not even close to being worth it. Personally I don't think it's "more convenient" myself, but even if it is, is it a million bucks worth of convenient? You're going to trade being a millionaire for "convenience"? To me that's ridiculous. Few millionaires drive new cars. Just pointing that out.
So if i don't lease I'll be a millionaire.

Frankly I find that entire line of reasoning absurd. WAY too many 'what ifs' and 'maybes' in that line of thinking.

But to each their own
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Old March 16th, 2013, 08:30 PM   #47 (permalink)
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Agreed, I'm looking at payments of around 220 for a 28k vehicle that I will be buying at the end of three years.

There will be ZERO maintenance fees and my trade in is my down payment. While yes, I am ending up with nothing st end of 3 years, I will be negotiating to buy a used car that I know EXACTLY what and where it has been and how it has been maintained.

I'll take that
The only thing that differs in the equation is the payment. Your payment may well be $50 a month less for a different model of car. You'll still pay the DMV fees and insurance. Yes, the numbers will differ for different models. The principle is the same though. Leasing is a very, very expensive way to operate a vehicle.

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So if i don't lease I'll be a millionaire.

Frankly I find that entire line of reasoning absurd. WAY too many 'what ifs' and 'maybes' in that line of thinking.

But to each their own
No, if you don't lease and take the money that you would've spent in payments and invest it you'd be a millionaire. You're welcome to poke holes in my math. I used 10% interest (what the market averages) compounded annually over 30 years. If you use your $376 payment, you'd have $822,977.71. Feel free to double check my math. Like I said, what if I'm half wrong? You'd still have $400k. There are expensive and there are inexpensive ways to do things. Leasing/buying new are far more expensive than buying used.

Again, it's your money. Do with it what you will. I just think people should recognize what kind of cash they are giving up just to drive a new car. Personally, I don't think it's worth giving up a million dollars in order to always have a new/newer car. That's just me. Your mileage may vary. If you think it's worth it, knock yourself out. I am not filthy rich. Maybe you are. Maybe you can afford it. Personally, I can't.
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Old March 16th, 2013, 09:49 PM   #48 (permalink)
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The only thing that differs in the equation is the payment. Your payment may well be $50 a month less for a different model of car. You'll still pay the DMV fees and insurance. Yes, the numbers will differ for different models. The principle is the same though. Leasing is a very, very expensive way to operate a vehicle.



No, if you don't lease and take the money that you would've spent in payments and invest it you'd be a millionaire. You're welcome to poke holes in my math. I used 10% interest (what the market averages) compounded annually over 30 years. If you use your $376 payment, you'd have $822,977.71. Feel free to double check my math. Like I said, what if I'm half wrong? You'd still have $400k. There are expensive and there are inexpensive ways to do things. Leasing/buying new are far more expensive than buying used.

Again, it's your money. Do with it what you will. I just think people should recognize what kind of cash they are giving up just to drive a new car. Personally, I don't think it's worth giving up a million dollars in order to always have a new/newer car. That's just me. Your mileage may vary. If you think it's worth it, knock yourself out. I am not filthy rich. Maybe you are. Maybe you can afford it. Personally, I can't.

there was a cool Top Gear episode where Jeremy said you can get an S class vs new budget nissan for £8000. Next episode is making fun of Jeremy who's used S class starter broke and he had to pay £1500 to fix it :-)
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Old March 16th, 2013, 10:37 PM   #49 (permalink)
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there was a cool Top Gear episode where Jeremy said you can get an S class vs new budget nissan for £8000. Next episode is making fun of Jeremy who's used S class starter broke and he had to pay £1500 to fix it :-)

That's still less than what you would be paying in lease payments.
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Old March 31st, 2013, 09:11 AM   #50 (permalink)
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I just ran into another beneficial of leasing to certain people. If you are visiting US for 2-3 years for job purpuses and you need a car, lease is a good option. Your head is not going to hurt at the time when you are leaving US.
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