Something I don't like about mac is that in order to make things more "user friendly", they often limit the uses of particular utilities.
And B2L, I can see being excited for a new computer. Hell, I'd be excited if I was getting a macbook too, though I'm not. So, I'm not excited.
What kind of school are you going to? I know that a lot of art schools require macs...
I'm going to a school that specializes in entertainment, and art. I'm actually going to school to earn my Bachelor's degree in mobile development. It's pretty awesome because i haven't found a school with a similar program, and i fully believe that mobile technology is the future. Plus there is a huge need for developers of all sorts, so i figured it would be a good way to support my future family. Sure i could teach myself, but I might as well get a degree, and learn pretty much anything and everything I can. Which is awesome because there are so many different coding languages to learn.
So yes I am definitely excited, not only for a new Mac, but going to school for what I'm interested in.
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I'm sure games would certainly benefit from being run from an SSD. Especially large FPSs that access data from a drive frequently. they'll load much quicker as well. My thinking is keep the OS, plus applications and games on the SSD for best performance, basically anything that's in "Program Files".
With those things which don't really benefit from a fast SSD, like MP3s, photos, movies, "Documents" etc, put them on the slower cheaper large capacity mechanical HDD.
I'm going to disagree here.
SSD's are arguably horrible for gaming and more of a "luxury" than anything for people who want a faster boot up.
At still over 100$ for about 60 gigs.. Your going to have 30 gigs or less after OS installation which means you can have maybe 3 ish games on it at any time.
From there your not going to get much of a "performance" difference.. Most of the advantage you would see is in the loading screen. and even then.. Some games are just horrible on load no matter what you do.
Now, being totally fair.. most people who get solid state drives aren't expecting a major bump in terms of performance in terms of FPS or anything else. It is more about quicker boot times.
A nice feature to have, but something I really can't justify for myself or my gaming rig. Lots of people can't live without them, but honestly I prefer mechanical keyboards or higher quality headphones and am waiting till i can get more bang per buck with an SSD.
If my netbook horrible boot times, I'd consider it just because class to class I want to turn my laptop on an use it asap.. But, honestly the thing works fine.
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Of course. That still doesn't change the fact that it's safer for whatever reason.i also think its much faster, smoother and user friendly than Windows will ever be, but that's personal preference
It is only safer until enough people begin using them.
Windows is the biggest target because it is the most frequently used. If enough people begin using OSX, it will become a target and it will be exploited.
Whether you believe it or not, there has been some major opportunities for Mac users to be seriously exploited in the past.. The only reason we hear about the after the patch unlike windows, is because there are so few mac users (historically speaking, although this may very well be changing) that no one bothered to write malware for a mac.
Any computer is built on system on top of system, and systems can be broken.
Also.. I've seen what I would call "similar" performance between OSX and win7 honestly. When you have a decent pc rig vs a decent mac rig there is really a non-existent difference for the most part.
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Last edited by Snow_Fox; November 3rd, 2011 at 11:36 AM.
Now, being totally fair.. most people who get solid state drives aren't expecting a major bump in terms of performance in terms of FPS or anything else. It is more about quicker boot times.
Compare using Photoshop CS or Lightroom from an SSD vs a mechanical and you'll change that opinion. After more RAM an SSD is probably the next most effective productivity boost.
Compare using Photoshop CS or Lightroom from an SSD vs a mechanical and you'll change that opinion. After more RAM an SSD is probably the next most effective productivity boost.
In all fairness, I was speaking with the assumption that anyone who has a dire enough need for those particular programs would be capable of doing the research required to know the cost/benefit ratio of a SSD for their given needs.
I was speaking, if not strictly, than for the most part in regards to performance boost for gaming and general purposes as oppose to specialized things such as Photoshopping.
I figure if someone can afford the cash (or it is being paid for them by their work) for a serious version of photo shop, they will probably already have some knowledge of what it takes to run that program effectively.
And even then, unless someone is seriously using it on a regular basis.. the SSD's still carry quite a cost which would make me (and I would like to think most budget bang to buck consumers who don't shop whops) a bit nervous.
About application loading times with SSD vs mechanical HDD. Earlier in this thread I made references to my Fujitsu UH900 UMPC which has a 128GB SSD. Before I had this machine, I had a Sony Vaio P UMPC. They both have very similar hardware except for one thing, the Sony had a mechanical HDD.
Applications took so much longer to load on the older Sony than they do now on my current Fujitsu, both running Windows 7 and the same applications, specifically Chrome, IE, Open or Libre Office, Gimp, Audacity and Skype.
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Last edited by mikedt; November 4th, 2011 at 01:50 AM.
I was speaking, if not strictly, than for the most part in regards to performance boost for gaming and general purposes as oppose to specialized things such as Photoshopping.
I know, I'm just pointing out that there's a tangible productivity benefit to be had from an SSD. Stuff just happens quicker so over the course of a day you get more done, whether processing large digitial images or browsing a forum like AF. Cost is still an issue, but my 80GB drive has Win7 x64 and all my programs on it and it's not yet at 33% capacity. SSDs also are intrinsically more reliable due to lack of mechanical parts and more economical in power draw, so additional purchase cost can be offset against those to some extent.
Incidentally, all my games are installed on a pair of striped WD Raptors and my local data storage is a Samsung F3, so I still believe in the merits of spinning platters too.
Well, I just received my Macbook Pro yesterday, and I thought I would post some first impressions. I've been a Windows user my whole life, and let me start off by saying it is definitely a different/weird experience to switch OS's. I know a lot of the pros/cons have to do with much better hardware than my older PC. (But I am trying as much as possible not to base it off of that.)
Pros:
- I absolutely love the multi touch track pad, it's great and makes things much easier than using a track pad with windows.
- Multitasking in OSX is awesome, I love how easy it is to switch between different apps, and how quick everything is. While I was installing the full Adobe master collection last night, I was able to do whatever I wanted without lag, or other problems.
- Surprisingly enough games run great, and a ton of my Steam games allowed me to download it for Mac without having to repurchase them.
- Very easy OS to get used to, after only playing with it for a night I feel pretty competent in using the OS.
- Most commands are similar, for example using ctrl commands for Windows, are almost exactly the same as using the command button for Mac's.
Cons:
- I'm not a big fan of the layout of everything, I don't like how there is a main bar at the top for everything because it can be confusing. It's also very simple, and ugly looking in my opinion. Does anyone know if it's customizable?
- Using a two finger click, instead of being able to right click. (This can be extremely frustrating.)
- Typically when using a track pad I like to use two fingers, but this can cause problems with the Mac since doing a two finger swipe left or right on a mac will go either back or forward on a page.
- It's confusing finding where certain things are stored. Half of the time after it saves a picture, or a file I wonder where it went.
- I don't like the installation process of applications, such as dragging and dropping into the folder after something has been installed. (I might just be confused on this, but this part hasn't seemed the most user friendly.)
- In order to download an update for iPhoto I had to add a credit card to the app store, I don't really plan on purchasing apps from there, and there really should be an option to update your current apps without having to add a card. If I want to buy something that costs, I want the option to add it, not just keep it on file all of the time.
Other than that I really enjoy it, I've never had Adobe applications such as Photoshop run so smoothly, or operate without any problems on my PC. Overall I seem to prefer Windows, but that might change in the future after using it a lot more.
I know a lot of the pros/cons have to do with much better hardware than my older PC. (But I am trying as much as possible not to base it off of that.)
- I love how easy it is to switch between different apps, and how quick everything is. While I was installing the full Adobe master collection last night, I was able to do whatever I wanted without lag, or other problems.
- Surprisingly enough games run great, and a ton of my Steam games allowed me to download it for Mac without having to repurchase them.
Are these Pro's Simply for a mac book and NOT comparing it to your windows PC. If its the former, I'll allow it
Because it is very easy to switch apps on PC and if the specs are good, it won't lag when doing things... Same with Games.
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Are these Pro's Simply for a mac book and NOT comparing it to your windows PC. If its the former, I'll allow it
Because it is very easy to switch apps on PC and if the specs are good, it won't lag when doing things... Same with Games.
The reason I had said something about games is because I have heard a lot of people say that games run terrible on Mac's, so I wasn't expecting anything great. I really wasn't trying to compare those pro's with PC's I have used, but it's kind of hard not to since that's all I have used. :/
When I made made the Windows-Mac switch a few years ago, I remember some of the same frustrations that you're mentioning ... but at least for me, it was mostly just a matter of getting acquainted with a different set of paradigms. Now I much prefer the single menubar at the top of the screen, and I think the app install/removal process is infinitely better than in Windows.
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When I made made the Windows-Mac switch a few years ago, I remember some of the same frustrations that you're mentioning ... but at least for me, it was mostly just a matter of getting acquainted with a different set of paradigms. Now I much prefer the single menubar at the top of the screen, and I think the app install/removal process is infinitely better than in Windows.
I'm hoping that's the case, I figure it's just a matter of getting used to.
If I need a new gfx card for my win PC, I just go & buy one & put it in.
New hard disk Sir - not a prob, some shiny new faster memory, for sure - how much do you need?
Software - 90% of what is needed most is PC only, you have to "make do" with mac related software choice.
Software licensing for business, it's a no brainer with Win PC will win this one, and so the work user base becomes the home user base - I use a Win PC at work, so I will get what I know for home - a win PC.
This is ALL wrong. This only affects 5% of the population. And most computers sold are laptops now, so no one puts in a new graphics card.
Software - MOST people who buy a computer do nothing more than: send email, browse the web, download photos/movies, listen to music. And Apple is best at all of those when it comes to what ships with the computer.
In the end it's all about PERCEIVED price. Because it's been shown that Macs require less money when you factor in OS upgrades, repairs, viruses, etc.
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I've owned both, I owned a MacBook Pro from the early 2000's, and Ive owned Compaq, Gateway, and now a custom rig I built. Personally I love the fact of having control over my system. Even comparing Mac systems of friends, I feel like they're not really "customizable" like they are on a Windows. Being in IT, of course I am quite Bias for Windows systems, and yeah they can be a PITA, but so can a Mac when you dont know how to use it.
I wonder how Mac's would do in an "Enterprise" environment, with everything made for Windows like it is, would Mac just play along with the big boy servers... or would it turn into a Cluster****?
This is ALL wrong. This only affects 5% of the population. And most computers sold are laptops now, so no one puts in a new graphics card.
Most ordinary people don't even do this sort of thing with desktops, upgrading a graphic card is a geek thing. To many people a computer is just an appliance, a tool for getting work done. Not much different to a washing machine. When the computer eventually breaks down, they'll either pay someone to repair it or just buy a new one.
In fact this where a Mac is better than a PC for non-geek users. Macs are pretty much usable straight away, rather than questions like 'What does "Norton 360 Trial" mean?' or 'What does "Trial Expired" mean when I try and open Word?'. Followed by disbelief, when one tells them they have to pay money for the apps that came with their new PC. This is true, I've seen it happen a few times.
Here's another thing that often happens when buying computer. In my home city of Bristol, in the City Centre there are basically two places to buy a computer, one is Apple and the other is Currys.
With Currys one is often faced with a SA who knows little or nothing about computers and probably knows more about gas cookers than PCs. But they're always eager to sell you their extended warranties, or another SA that tells lies, fear, BS and hard upsell(BTW SonyStyle stores are just horrible for this). Or the Apple Stores where the SAs actually know their products, they don't sell gas cookers and things, and are not constantly trying to sell you extended warranties and other upsell.
Last edited by mikedt; November 11th, 2011 at 09:51 PM.
Most ordinary people don't even do this sort of thing with desktops, upgrading a graphic card is a geek thing. To many people a computer is just an appliance, a tool for getting work done. Not much different to a washing machine. When the computer eventually breaks down, they'll either pay someone to repair it or just buy a new one.
I don't think even many geeks do this. By the time someone is ready to buy the latest and greatest video card, they're probably looking to buy the latest and greatest mobo with it, too, which will need the latest/greatest CPU.
At that point, you're just buying a new machine, anyhow. The PSU, chassis, HDD, and DVD drive are probably the only things that don't get changed out every 6 months.
In my opinion, price is the leading factor. I've come across a good number of people who claim to hate Macs and Apple products when they don't have the money. The minute they can afford it, there's always some ridiculous excuse bashing other products.
The other reason in my opinion is the new OS factor. Most working people deal with Microsoft at work for the most part and as such, it's probably an easier choice to deal with at home.
I personally don't use Apple products. I've come across a number of people who have raved on about the Mac's ability to work with Photoshop and other multimedia platforms though I have never had any issues running them on Windows.
Cost is cited as the main reason a lot of the time. For me, it's a big factor but over and above that, I don't like 'The Apple Way' locking in their users with their walled gardens (Obviously not so much with OS X.) and similar corporate policies. Similarly, I don't particularly care for the way Microsoft do things on a corporate level. With them, I also find their products to be inferior which is probably not an accusation I could level at Apple. Their products would be awesome if they were more open. Given all that, I use Linux.
Cost is cited as the main reason a lot of the time. For me, it's a big factor but over and above that, I don't like 'The Apple Way' locking in their users with their walled gardens (Obviously not so much with OS X.)
OS X could well go that way though in future versions, Apple would love that, one can only have approved software from the App Store. I believe Windows 8 on ARM tablets could be like that as well, that's what I've read, walled garden MS approved applications only.
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^ Don't like the sound of that.
I'd buy a mac if they were on par with pricing for other pcs. I really thought about getting a mac mini bundle I saw, included tons of stuff (speakers, monitor, keyboard, mouse, loads of software and hardware for audio recording [some $600 savings]) But I didn't have the funds at the time. And now the product is sold out.
But as it is, the price is the main reason I haven't bought a mac.
iphones and ipods only sell well because they are hipster products, trendy. they can find 100 kids to buy a little mp3 player easier than they can get 1 or 2 to buy a boring laptop.
I don't dislike Apple or the Mac, I just don't really want one. These days Apple is just a brand of PC. Yes, they have their own operating system which is a contrast compared to every other PC maker out there. I just don't find that hugely attractive. Sometimes I have to use Macs at work, with various iterations of Apple's 12 year old OSX operating system. Again, I don't dislike using these machines, I just don't want one.
I prefer Windows and have for many years. Some people hated Vista - I loved it and was happy to get off XP in 2006 when the Vista betas started to hit. I haven't had an XP system since then, don't miss it. Today, Windows 7 64 Enterprise and the software available for it do everything I need. Could I accomplish roughly the same thing on a Mac? Probably? Do I want to? No, not really.
I'll comment on viruses just for fun. I've had a computer virus just a number of times and I've been computing since the late 1980s. I haven't had a virus of any type infect any PC I work on since at least 2005. You might ask how I can remember - I'm an IT Sys Admin - we tend to be a little anal about these things.
I still have my first Gen PPC Mini Mac, which I bought in '05 just so I could get to know Macs in general. Since I believe I'm a techie/geekie type of guy!
TBH, I haven't had a lick of problems with it and been using it as part of my HDTV setup, using a wireless keyboard & mouse (non-mac). I did upgrade the ram after buying it.
I also believe price is a leading factor in why more people don't go the Apple way for computers. I would love to get me another Mac but, again, price is the issue when you can get more hardware buying a regular PC.
I'm also a Linux guy, so I put it on all my machines!
Seems odd to me that Apple can dominate sales in MP3 players, smart phones and tablet computers but when it comes to PC sales, they aren't even close. I think price is the main issue. Most people try to go cheap with their computers for some odd reason. Fear of a new OS is probably another which is odd seeing as how these people are using Apple products daily anyways. Thoughts?
Good question. And Jerofld is near spot on with this:
Quote:
Macs don't sell well because people have brand recognition of Windows. They think they need Windows to run anything they need to run. And, depending on your needs, this may actually be correct, but I'd wager that 80% of the PC owning population would be just as fine on a Mac as they would on a Windows machine.
The first new Computer I ever had (actually belonged to my wife, and she got it in the divorce) was a Mac and it was sweet. After the divorce I could not afford to buy anything so my PC picks were what others threw out. And at the time I was finding lots of PCs sitting curb side.
Started with Windows 3.1 and then a few years later moved up to 95. But they were still nothing compared to the Mac.
In time 98 came out and I really started seeing just how full of security holes windows was. Began longing for that Mac once again. BUT!!! there was no way I could afford one. Macs Prices were just beyond my range. So I spoke to a friend who owns a PC store and he told me about Linux.
Now back then Linux was ruff and a pain to use in about every way, but I tried it, and found promise. Today, Linux has Matured and there are many Distros out there that are marvels of art and science.
My I Pad 2 is now as close to a Mac as I care to get. The IP2 is a great little device and I like it as much as my Android tablet, but I am so use to Linux now that anything else feel alien.
So after that mountainous mole hill, my point is. A great part for many of us not using Mac is Price.
And why Macs cost so much is a story for another day.
Personally, I use Windows because of Marketshare. If I had my choice? I'd run a flavor of Linux that could run .exe's natively and with the same level of performance as Windows.
Like it or not, because of hardware availability and compatibility, A Windows machine dollar for dollar will always out perform a Mac.
That is your opinion. And for you that statement is true. And that's great. But it is not true for all.
Best value for the dollar depends on the needs or wants of the consumer.
For me the Market Share of windows is a huge reason of why I avoid it. It is true that you can do a great deal more with windows than the others because of its market share (more programs available for it and all). But for some that comes with a huge fail, being viruses and malware. 99%of all viruses and malware are written for windows because of it market saturation. But for those who just want to get on line and do email or brows or other simple things like being part of this forum, those malware issues can be a huge pain. Antivirus software and anti malware can be costly and is hit and miss at best. Microsoft Security Essentials is said to be a good free service but still it does not catch everything.
Linux or Mac are an opt out of that mess. Mac is a expensive opt where Linux is not and Linux runs on most hardware these days.
For me, I would rather use a OS that has to worry about less than 1% of the malware presence on the net than one that has to worry about 99% of it.
No antimalwar programs hogging up system resources means my PC's runs smoother and longer on a particular install than any windows install I have ever had.
It all boiles down to what a person wants to do with their hardware. as to what OS is best for them.
Last edited by androidfonefan; April 16th, 2012 at 05:34 AM.
That is you opinion. And for you that statement is true. And that's great. But it is not true for all.
Best value for the dollar depends on the needs or wants of the consumer.
For me the Market Share of windows is a huge reason of why I avoid it. It is true that you can do a great deal more with windows than the others because of its market share (more programs available for it and all). But for some that comes with a huge fail, being viruses and malware. 99%of all viruses and malware are written for windows because of it market saturation. But for those who just want to get on line and do email or brows or other simple things like being part of this forum, those malware issues can be a huge pain. Antivirus software and anti malware can be costly and is hit and miss at best. Microsoft Security Essentials is said to be a good free service but still it does not catch everything.
Linux or Mac are an opt out of that mess. Mac is a expensive opt where Linux is not and Linux runs on most hardware these days.
For me, I would rather use a OS that has to worry about less than 1% of the malware presence on the net than one that has to worry about 99% of it.
No antimalwar programs hogging up system resources means my PC's runs smoother and longer on a particular install than any windows install I have ever had.
It all boiles down to what a person wants to do with their hardware. as to what OS is best for them.
I'm sorry, this is simply not true.
Most of Mac Malware is generally swept under the rug, but it does exist and it effects about the same percentage of users because it's done through social engineering.
If I were to go for security through obscurity, I would vote for Linux, but that leaves you unable to do so many things which is the primary reason Linux isn't my main Operating System on my PC.
I personally wish Linux would hit the mainstream and garner the attention of all the big corporations that develop productivity software and games, but this is not the case for today.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IOWA
I'm sorry, this is simply not true.
Most of Mac Malware is generally swept under the rug, but it does exist and it effects about the same percentage of users because it's done through social engineering.
If I were to go for security through obscurity, I would vote for Linux, but that leaves you unable to do so many things which is the primary reason Linux isn't my main Operating System on my PC.
I personally wish Linux would hit the mainstream and garner the attention of all the big corporations that develop productivity software and games, but this is not the case for today.
Thanks for your post.
beat me to flashback...
Also, as to not feel left out, a variant of Zeus has appeared in the Mac world
(as far as linux games, you mean the card games aren't enough... )
(as far as linux games, you mean the card games aren't enough... )
I quite enjoy the Gnome Games and similar, don't play much else. Multi-gigabyte 3D shoot 'em ups don't really do much for me. My middle school students seem to like them though, especially at the internet bars.
Last edited by mikedt; April 14th, 2012 at 02:57 AM.
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Most of Mac Malware is generally swept under the rug, but it does exist and it effects about the same percentage of users because it's done through social engineering.
If I were to go for security through obscurity, I would vote for Linux, but that leaves you unable to do so many things which is the primary reason Linux isn't my main Operating System on my PC.
I personally wish Linux would hit the mainstream and garner the attention of all the big corporations that develop productivity software and games, but this is not the case for today.
Thanks for your post.
Here you see, your post proves my point.
For you, were it not for these conditions you would use OS (insert here), these are your preferences, for your needs.
I think the biggest single factor that influences all decisions is PRICE.
This mostly.
It's also due to familiarity. Tried weaning the mom on Hackint0sh and Kubuntu (on an extra PC). She couldn't get used to it and kept asking for Windows (had 2 PC's connected to the monitor, one dual-boot OS X and Linux, the other on Windows). I think the newer generation who grew up on iPods, iPhones and iPads might be more inclined to use Macs. I do believe we're seeing bigger marketshare for Macs now compared to before.
Personally, couldn't get used to OS X, either. Guess I'm just really used to Windows. I can easily switch to Linux (I like KDE) but the fam requires Windows.
Seems odd to me that Apple can dominate sales in MP3 players, smart phones and tablet computers but when it comes to PC sales, they aren't even close. I think price is the main issue. Most people try to go cheap with their computers for some odd reason. Fear of a new OS is probably another which is odd seeing as how these people are using Apple products daily anyways. Thoughts?
There are LOTS of reasons for that. The main is that the Mac is a status symbol, plain and simple. From a functionality and software compatibility
standpoint, it is like "Windows for dummies, for twice the price".
1) The biggest point is Price. Build a Windows PC for $500 using the exact same level of hardware as found in a $1200 Mac. $800-1000 gets you to the level of a $2500 Mac. It is just dumb to overspend for the exact same hardware products.
This doesn't mean people are CHEAP as you call it, it is just having a brain. Personally I cannot understand how people could be so dumb to continue spending $1200 for a computer when they can have the same power and more compatibility (like mentioned below) for a third or half the price.
It is like a guy puts a pretty paintjob on a Mustang and charges an extra $100,000 versus a $50,000 Mustang, smart people would see right through the added paint and buy the $50,000 Mustang. Yet some would buy the overpriced Mustang as a status symbol, even though both have the same base power and performance.
2) Gaming: Very few games that have high graphics demands are created for Mac simply because it doesn't have the fan base, pure GPU capabilities, or upgradability as Windows based systems.
3) Hardware Upgrades: With Windows, take the old video card out, put the new one of YOUR choice in, install drivers (if not already installed) and within minutes you are ready to go. With a Mac, you have to double check the Hardware Compatibility Lists, make sure you get an EXACT match to whats on that list, and HOPE the new part works. Many times it will not because it is not an opfficial Apple product, which means you need to return or sell that new part, then go through Apple and pay double or triple for the exact same part that has their approval sticker on it, and some special chip embedded in the part that allows it to work in a Mac.
4) Software: this is similar to windows versus android, people want Program X because they are familiar with it so they try to find their familiar software on the new platform. Same thing goes for a Mac, people have 20+ years with familiar Windows point and double click, right click, scroll, etc, so they see no need to get a Mac with one button, no right click, no scroll wheel on the mouse.
5) Smartphones/tablets: Apple is actually losing that battle to Android based setups, for the same reason as mentioned above. you can get an Android for half the price, same or better performance, better support, and more/better apps available by the community instead of being locked into what Apple wants you to have, and charge you for it
The list can go on and on, but in the end it is just dumb to buy a Mac unless it is absolutely required for work, or you have extra cash to blow. For me, I will build my own systems for less than half the price of a Mac and get the same or better performance.
There are LOTS of reasons for that. The main is that the Mac is a status symbol, plain and simple. From a functionality and software compatibility
standpoint, it is like "Windows for dummies, for twice the price".
Macs are certainly a status symbol in China. They love the glowing Apple logo. Sometimes they'll put Apple stickers on Lenovos and things.
Quote:
Originally Posted by talikarni
1) The biggest point is Price. Build a Windows PC for $500 using the exact same level of hardware as found in a $1200 Mac. $800-1000 gets you to the level of a $2500 Mac. It is just dumb to overspend for the exact same hardware products.
You're talking about tower PCs of course, we don't all need these. Plus most people don't build PCs anyway, that's rather a geek thing. Most people just go out and buy a PC. Although building a PC is certainly a good education into how these things work, I've done it myself in the past. Plus you can build and customize exactly what you require, if that's your desire. To most ordinary people a computer is just an appliance, a tool for getting work done, they're not geeks.
Also one can't really build an all-in-one PC, like an iMac, which take up much less space than tower systems. One certainly can't build laptops either. There are many premium Windows laptops which are similarly priced to the Apple ones, e.g. Sony Vaio.
Quote:
Originally Posted by talikarni
2) Gaming: Very few games that have high graphics demands are created for Mac simply because it doesn't have the fan base, pure GPU capabilities, or upgradability as Windows based systems.
If one plays Windows games, would seem rather silly to buy a Mac. Correct tools for the job. Anyway it's only tower desktop PCs that are upgradeable, can't really upgrade the GPU or whatever in an all-in-one system, laptop or netbook though. I used to be really into gaming at one time, not now though.
The only problem I have with OS X, is that it doesn't support Mongolian Script, so I use Windows 7 for this. Same reason why I don't use Linux for work or my studies. But if I'm browsing forums, reading the news, playing music, watching movies, OS X, Windows or Linux are OK.
Quote:
Originally Posted by talikarni
3) Hardware Upgrades: With Windows, take the old video card out, put the new one of YOUR choice in, install drivers (if not already installed) and within minutes you are ready to go. With a Mac, you have to double check the Hardware Compatibility Lists, make sure you get an EXACT match to whats on that list, and HOPE the new part works. Many times it will not because it is not an opfficial Apple product, which means you need to return or sell that new part, then go through Apple and pay double or triple for the exact same part that has their approval sticker on it, and some special chip embedded in the part that allows it to work in a Mac.
Again this is rather a geek thing IMO. Many ordinary people, e.g. my sister wouldn't even know what a video card is, any more than she would know what a pump in her washing machine does. She knows how to use a computer for work, that's it. If her PC breaks down, she'll either pay a tech to fix it, or just buy a new one, just like if her washing machine broke down. Her PC is just an appliance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by talikarni
4) Software: this is similar to windows versus android, people want Program X because they are familiar with it so they try to find their familiar software on the new platform. Same thing goes for a Mac, people have 20+ years with familiar Windows point and double click, right click, scroll, etc, so they see no need to get a Mac with one button, no right click, no scroll wheel on the mouse.
When was the last time you actually saw or used a Mac? One button mice, no right click, etc. that's all history.
MS Office on a Mac works pretty much the same way as Windows, except for the ribbon interface, I know a few people don't really like the ribbon interface anyway, including myself. Chrome and Firefox work very much the same way, Windows or Mac.
Quote:
Originally Posted by talikarni
I will build my own systems for less than half the price of a Mac and get the same or better performance.
Again this is a geek thing, we're not all geeks. I used to be really geeky, but not so much these days. As I posted above, one can't really build an all-in-one PC or a laptop anyway.
Last edited by mikedt; April 21st, 2012 at 05:12 AM.
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Good catch. People started using Logitech mice, two buttons and a scroll wheel, on their Macs over a decade ago. Shortly after that, Apple stopped including one button mice. Last Apple mouse WifelyMon bought was a four button job with a scroll dodad, four years ago, for the Mac mini serving as the HTPC (home theater PC).
The Mac mini, at the time, was the exact same price as the only two Windows minis in existence with the exact same hardware configurations. Yes, you could build a bigger one for less, but for an uncluttered living room, people use the mini form factor that uses laptop components, pricier at the time than desktop counterparts. Except the mini included an IR remote, saving a $15 add-on for the Windows counterpart. Plus being guaranteed to work with the built-in media-only interface.
Lots of people buy Macs because they have shopped around, know exactly what they're doing, and aren’t idiots or iSheep.
Use the right tool for the job, live and let live.
PS - watched some classic Doctor Who last night, used Remote Droid on my phone to control the HTPC, easy peasy. Remote Droid works great for Macs and Windows.
Mac vs Windows? Android wins.
Last edited by EarlyMon; April 21st, 2012 at 09:06 AM.
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I've been a Windows guy for 15 years, the company I support uses Windows. The company I support is also venturing into the Mac world and has given me one to learn on. My HP laptop needs replacing (2-1/2 years old, HDD diags are fine, reinstalled OS and still random BSODs), it's being replaced with a Mac. I have an AppleTV, so with ML I'll be able to AirPlay my Mac to my TV when I want to have a larger screen and still have the portability of a 13" MBP.
I'll still use Windows at home, I'm a gamer and build my own gaming desktops, but for my portable needs it'll be MBP and my Acer tablet.
I think the reason more don't sell is the price of admission. These computers are not cheap but the all-aluminum construction, trackpad and screen are MILES ahead of many of the laptops I've seen.
There may be hardware issues with your HP
Atop but before you toss it out because of the BSOD try downloading the ISO for Ultimate Linux 3.2 and run it live from the DVD and see if it works well on the hardware. I can tell you from personal experience that some devices that baulk at windows after a time will run Linux for several years before the hardware finally gives out.
It would be a shame to shelf a laptop without trying another OS. You may not be able to run all your needed windows software on it, but there are a great many web related thing you can do. Email, web searches, watching videos, on and on. And it will save the ware on your new Mac.
Considering the VERY random and infrequent nature of the faults, running a Live CD to see if it fails there won't be very much help.
To be honest, for the last 8 months I've been looking for an excuse to replace the thing. It was kind of an impulse purchase, I bought it a month after the Core i5 chips were released (it's a C2D) and I've never really been 100% pleased with the performance of the machine, though it serves well for the most part.
Seems odd to me that Apple can dominate sales in MP3 players, smart phones and tablet computers but when it comes to PC sales, they aren't even close. I think price is the main issue. Most people try to go cheap with their computers for some odd reason. Fear of a new OS is probably another which is odd seeing as how these people are using Apple products daily anyways. Thoughts?
I own an iMAC, but just use it for music. Why I do not own more comes down to cost. I do not want to spend twice the price of a PC for product that will be obsolete in 3 years and I do not want to buy MAC versions for all my software. In addition, I am offended by Apples warranty service, which seems to revolve around its customers paying even more money for something that should be free.
As to their domination of Music products, they are dominating with 10 year old technology, not sound. Most android phones sound better than an iPOD or the iPhone and are a lot easier to do file manipulation.
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Last edited by EarlyMon; April 25th, 2012 at 01:16 PM.
Reason: Error corrected
Its like buying anything else: do your research. Problem is most of the world is too busy to care. They (the consumer) want everything yesterday and have no patients to learn, they just want it to work. The danger is lack of knowledge, eg; throwing out a perfectly good laptop just because of a dead HDD. Therefore they spend more money than they have to.
That is not quite true...the technology changes so fast that whatever you bought 2 or 3 years ago is obsolete today. I had a 5 year old top flight XP machine a couple of years ago that refused to play my latest photo software and would not allow updates of other software or drivers...too slow and too limited and too little memory.
IMHO, buy a mid range machine with a lot of memory at a low price and then replace it with a new one in 3-4 years. You will be happier and richer than spending a fortune on a machine that will be obsolete before the extended warranty quits and then fighting with it for the last year or so of its useful life..
Like it or not, nowadays people who buy low-end Windows machines see them as thoroughly disposable commodities. I'm sure we've all encountered people who have borked their copy of Windows, decided that their computer was physically broken as a result, and just tossed the whole thing out. It's kind of a sad statement on our consumer society, on the user-unfriendliness of windows, and on the technological ignorance of much of the populace ... all at once.
Considering the VERY random and infrequent nature of the faults, running a Live CD to see if it fails there won't be very much help.
To be honest, for the last 8 months I've been looking for an excuse to replace the thing. It was kind of an impulse purchase, I bought it a month after the Core i5 chips were released (it's a C2D) and I've never really been 100% pleased with the performance of the machine, though it serves well for the most part.
You could always do a dual boot install and keep the windows installation, this would allow you to try Ultimate Linux on the device to see if it resolves issues without losing any of your windows stuff. UL makes this real easy.
I understand wanting that excuse for a new toy. I do it all the time and my bank acct don't like it none but hay.
I only suggest this because I have a tendency to try everything on a PC before shelving it as useless.
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I have to say Macs, Ipads, Iphones can go burn in hell. This trendy thing is because many people are not very smart the way they use technology and conform to the "shiny" look. When I am in the market for a computer - be it desktop or laptop - I look at the hardware that is being sold not how shiny the damn box is. If hardware is good and the price is good usually a good candidate for me except when it comes down to Chrome books which are absolutely stupid. No internet no work no cloud of course.
And if you think I am a hater - I am not I just fail to see what is so special about the Unix system which cannot be done on Linux which is free and it supports a much wider range of systems. Oh and yea I do not see why I have to pay thousands of dollars more for crappier hardware which has a shiny box and a half eaten apple logo on the front of it.
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