Hey guys. I'm trying to convince him that he needs to update his 8 year old desktop computer but he doesn't really want to spend the time building one or even know how to build one. I want to give a customized desktop computer as a Christmas present to my best friend of 17 years.
It has been about 6 years since I've built my last computer so I need a refresher of the components that I need. I'm not even sure what kind of budget I should allocate. My first thought was $1,500 but I don't know if that is unnecessarily high for someone who isn't trying to play games like Crysis and more simply WoW.
I was wondering if you guys recommend a good guide or if you can put one together for what I would need to build the computer.
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Last edited by Vihzel; December 9th, 2011 at 08:12 PM.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vihzel
Hey guys. I'm trying to convince him that he needs to update his 8 year old desktop computer but he doesn't really want to spend the time building one or even know how to build one. I want to give a customized desktop computer as a Christmas present to my best friend of 17 years.
It has been about 6 years since I've built my last computer so I need a refresher of the components that I need. I'm not even sure what kind of budget I should allocate. My first thought was $1,500 but I don't know if that is unnecessarily high for someone who isn't trying to play games like Crysis and more simply WoW.
I was wondering if you guys recommend a good guide or if you can put one together for what I would need to build the computer.
If you check out my build somewhere on here its about $1k (with only one GPU, but yeah it can run Crysis 2 )
Most motherboards these days come with onboard HD audio, and if he does not OC then all you' really need to look at is either a case with good cooling built in plus a CPU cooler, or else a good case and DIY cooling - fans are pretty cheap these days.
If his system is 8 years old, and he doesn't really mind, you might be better off buying a pre-built system as it will ahve the OS also. However, if you ahve access to a legitimate OS to install on there, then by all means build by hand.
DDR3 is the current spec for RAM, can be used in dual channel or triple channel mode.
CPUs - I'm only familiar with Intel, but you can get some really nice Sandy bridge CPUs for not too much - but it will require a compatible motherboard as well. If you don't mind sticknig him with older components (I'm guessing that you will) you can jump backward to pre Core iX days like a Core2Quad 9000 series. I don't recommend that.
PSU, GPU HDD - up in the air - a good SATA II SSD can be as little as $150, these days, the SATA 6Gbps v3 are more expensive - but they make a world of difference when it comes to booting a computer up. There's also hybrids, Velociraptors and regular 7200 RPM mechanical drives.
Optical - a BD-ROM + DV all + CD all is as cheap as $30 - BD burners are more expensive, around $100.
PSU - use eXtreme Power Supply Calculator to determine what you really need to have installed. I've got the Pro version paid for so I can gather your specs and give you a true output if some things won't go in the free version.
PS/2 is good. My new keyboard is USB, and to get enough bandwidth to get it working, the USB modem had to be temporarily disconnected. Now my broadband speed appears to be less fast. Lol
Lol, wth.. I can be this best friend of 17 years if you'd like
In all honesty, the newer model motherboards come with really specific assembly manuals so you really shouldn't get the assembly portion of it wrong. Of course, parts do short out or come DOA. I think your best bet is to look up DIY kits and just go that route. If not that, you can always go to places like ibuypower.com and have something built that way.
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The only thing I would recommend for a first time build is buy a mobo/cpu combo. This way you dont have to sit there figuring out how to attach the CPU, or worry about getting the correct mobo, or attaching a coolant sink/fan to the CPU -- those things can be tricky.
Otherwise everything just plugs in, and most components are designed only to fit a certain way, so it's hard to mess up.
Small form factor. And I seriously doubt that the dude that it's being built for give's a rat's a...er, a care about portability, since his current build is over 8 years old and he plays WoW and checks email, not goes to LAN parties and such.
@alp - it's not Vizhel's first build, just first build in 6 years - V's been around the block.
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Hey guys, I apologize for the absence. I'm not in too big of a hurry to get this assembled and I've been watching the Newegg videos for assembly so I've relearned a lot by watching them. It has definitely been a long time since I've built my last one but at least I'm not terrified to build another one like I was the first time. hehe
The thing most puzzling to me (and I assume was the same before) was the motherboard. Is a $250 motherboard better than a $100 motherboard?
Lol - price is not everything. Generally, you could say yes to this - but a lot of factors are also involved, and a $250 with a bunch of extra features (for example, a secondary southbridge type chipset) may actually run into problems in the long run, thereby making the $100 mobo a better choice in hindsight.
Since he doesn't need high end graphics, you're best bet would probably be to invest in an SSD fo a main system drive and regular mechanical drives (7200 rpm for best balance of price versus performance) for data drive(s), and a bit of RAM (4 GB doesn't even cut it anymore, go with 8 (2 * 4), or, since the current standard is DDR3, make full use of triple channel and do 6 or 12 (3 * 2 or 3 * 4). Since he seems to like to keep his computers for a long time, try to get the most current hardware at the most affordable price you can - that will keep him set for he next 8 years and in better shape than his current 8 year old beast.
Or, save some money and go with the X58 and older Core i7 CPUs, as they are a lot cheaper now, and they get tremendous performance compared to what he is currently using anyway....
He can still get a solid Z68 board for relatively cheap. My board was only $89.99 when I got it. I mean, Vizhel had all the intentions to spend a hefty amount of money to build a new rig for his pal. We would be saving him money regardless.
I put together a wish list cart for you Vizhel, send me a PM of your email so I can send it to you.
Last edited by NYCHitman1; December 16th, 2011 at 11:37 AM.
Oh thank you guys so much for your help! I am building one for myself now. My buddy got his pre-launch invite to Star Wars: The Old Republic today and started playing the game. He was complaining to me about how he has to have all of the settings at the lowest setting possible and he's still lagging all over the place. He asked his dad if he could get an updated one. His dad is now getting him a new desktop computer.
I now have a new budget of $1,500 for myself since I don't have to worry about building 2 computers since now I can just build one for myself.
That's a healthy amount, I sure we'll have lots of fun helping you spend that.
I sent him a nice wish list/cart for very slightly over $1,000. A lot of the parts have MIR's too, so he'll see a bit of cash back once he sends them in. Either way, the rig is a beast.
Case: Antec DF-85 ATX Full
Motherboard: GIGABYTE GA-Z68A-D3H-B3
GPU: EVGA 012-P3-2068-KR GeForce GTX 560 Ti (448 cores)
PSU: CORSAIR CMPSU-750TX 750W ATX12V v2.2
CPU: Intel Core i5-2500K
RAM: G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3 1600MHz
HDD: Seagate Barracuda ST31000524AS 1TB 7200 RPM
Thank you for that! I was wondering though if I need 750W PSU. Can I use a 650W PSU?
You could use the 650 model, but I put the 750 since it'll be good for future use and since it wasn't much more $ than the 650. Whichever you want to use is legit though.
It has a really polished, clean design and seems like plenty of airflow. It also has filters, which are great.
I'll work on my build with some of your recommendations and post on here to test for compatibility. Something I don't understand is the RAM timing. I know that has something to do with BIOS but that's all I know.
It has a really polished, clean design and seems like plenty of airflow. It also has filters, which are great.
I'll work on my build with some of your recommendations and post on here to test for compatibility. Something I don't understand is the RAM timing. I know that has something to do with BIOS but that's all I know.
Yeah, I like that case too. I was actually going to post it in the build, but I went with the Antec DF-35 since I have experience with Antec cases and they are top of the top in terms of airflow and build quality. The Antec case has removable filters too with a hot swap drive on the top for SSD. It's personal preference. Go with whatever you like.
The RAM timings basically just tell you how many clock cycles the memory module will delay in returning data sequenced by the CPU. Basically, it's a performance thing. I do know that the lower the scores, the better it is. You have to understand how RAM is classified though (DDR3 w/ x bus speed, etc..)
Last edited by NYCHitman1; December 17th, 2011 at 10:46 PM.
Although not really cheap, the ThermalTake Level 10 GT has an abundant amount of airflow, ready for liquid cooling, and has air filters as well. Also, a very well planned out cable management system, too.
I put the 750 since it'll be good for future use and since it wasn't much more $ than the 650. Whichever you want to use is legit though.
The 750W will be more efficient too. That's why I've got an 850W in my own case; the average load is right at the top of the efficiency graph. Corsair don't misrepresent their outputs either, so you get the stated wattage across the board and the regulation is excellent.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vihzel
I do like the components you put up there but I would really want this case:
It has a really polished, clean design and seems like plenty of airflow.
But... but.... it looks like an overgrown iDevice!
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The only thing I would recommend for a first time build is buy a mobo/cpu combo. This way you dont have to sit there figuring out how to attach the CPU, or worry about getting the correct mobo, or attaching a coolant sink/fan to the CPU -- those things can be tricky.
I built my own PC for the first time a few months ago, and closing up the processor enclosure was absolutely gut wrenching Those sandy bridge sockets take a LOT more force to close than I was expecting and by the little crunching sounds it was producing I was sure I had trashed both the processor and CPU.
I did some reading on the internet and apparently that's not uncommon for the sandybridge CPUs, so hopefully that will spare you a heart attack Vihzel
I did some reading on the internet and apparently that's not uncommon for the sandybridge CPUs, so hopefully that will spare you a heart attack Vihzel
lol thanks for telling me
I think it took me like 3 hours to build my first desktop computer because I was so overly cautious and nervous about everything. I would "ground" myself every time I even felt like I touched carpet. lol
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Lol - price is not everything. Generally, you could say yes to this - but a lot of factors are also involved, and a $250 with a bunch of extra features (for example, a secondary southbridge type chipset) may actually run into problems in the long run, thereby making the $100 mobo a better choice in hindsight.
Since he doesn't need high end graphics, you're best bet would probably be to invest in an SSD fo a main system drive and regular mechanical drives (7200 rpm for best balance of price versus performance) for data drive(s), and a bit of RAM (4 GB doesn't even cut it anymore, go with 8 (2 * 4), or, since the current standard is DDR3, make full use of triple channel and do 6 or 12 (3 * 2 or 3 * 4). Since he seems to like to keep his computers for a long time, try to get the most current hardware at the most affordable price you can - that will keep him set for he next 8 years and in better shape than his current 8 year old beast.
John, you really love those SSDs. I don't blame you.
OP: I'm already under the assumption that your friend will not really care what he gets, as long as its better than what he has. You could really cheap out and get a dual core processor for 100 or you could be a nice friend and get him a i5 processor.
As John mentioned a 250 dollar mobo may be made better and have some bells and whistles but honestly you aren't going to really notice a difference with a similarly spec'd motherboard in the mid 100 range. I am in firm belief that the higher mobo's are for enthusiasts looking to spit out every ounce of power from their systems via overclocking.
I would lay off a soundcard and get a motherboard with onboard, as mentioned. Onboard is generally good enough for sound quality.
There is no reason why you should have to spend more than 800 bucks and thats being generous if you shop around for the best deals (amazon, newegg, buy.com).
You could really just go with a 50 dollar case and 50 dollar psu, a 100 or so dollar mobo, a cheap 8800gtx or 9800 gtx or radeon equivalent for a 100. 250gig hard drive for what 60. Ram which is super cheap. I'd get him 4 or 6. The i5 or dual core processor. Call it a day.
John, you really love those SSDs. I don't blame you.
OP: I'm already under the assumption that your friend will not really care what he gets, as long as its better than what he has. You could really cheap out and get a dual core processor for 100 or you could be a nice friend and get him a i5 processor.
As John mentioned a 250 dollar mobo may be made better and have some bells and whistles but honestly you aren't going to really notice a difference with a similarly spec'd motherboard in the mid 100 range. I am in firm belief that the higher mobo's are for enthusiasts looking to spit out every ounce of power from their systems via overclocking.
I would lay off a soundcard and get a motherboard with onboard, as mentioned. Onboard is generally good enough for sound quality.
There is no reason why you should have to spend more than 800 bucks and thats being generous if you shop around for the best deals (amazon, newegg, buy.com).
You could really just go with a 50 dollar case and 50 dollar psu, a 100 or so dollar mobo, a cheap 8800gtx or 9800 gtx or radeon equivalent for a 100. 250gig hard drive for what 60. Ram which is super cheap. I'd get him 4 or 6. The i5 or dual core processor. Call it a day.
I believe he now switched it up and is building for himself (the friend got a new PC as a present or something of that sort). As far as the rest goes, I don't see much use in putting outdated hardware in the box. If he at least goes with minimum spec current gen pieces, he'll have that rig for the foreseeable future which I would think is rather important. Nobody wants to keep shelling out cash each time a new gen of hardware comes out.
1) You make the final decision on what goes in and what does not.
2) Future proofing is something to think about - after all, spending $800 every other year b/c of outdated hardware makes less sense than spending $1500 one year and holding on for 4 years.
The bottom line, though, is what you want. I myself did not want a cheap case, I myself wanted a motherboard that I could start OCing with at the drop of a hat, I myself wanted 12 GB of RAM, I myself wanted to make use of the 965X CPU I had bought 2 years ago rather than forking out money on a newer Sandy Bridge, and I myself wanted brand new storage drives but the same SSD I already had.
You know what's weird? Nobody's asked you what you intend to use the PC for.
Building a gamer's PC is totally different from a media server is totally different from a developer's box. I mean, if all you want to do is email, Facebook, and light web browsing, then an inexpensive AMD dual-core is already plenty.
So watcha gonna do with it? $1500 is a niiiiiice budget to play with.
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You know what's weird? Nobody's asked you what you intend to use the PC for.
Building a gamer's PC is totally different from a media server is totally different from a developer's box. I mean, if all you want to do is email, Facebook, and light web browsing, then an inexpensive AMD dual-core is already plenty.
So watcha gonna do with it? $1500 is a niiiiiice budget to play with.
I think we all just assumed it was going to be a gaming rig due to the budget he initially listed.
1: I'm with johnlgalt on the SSD. The improvement in overall system snappiness is significant. Even with most of your apps on a second regular HD. Doesn't matter what you're using the system for, an SSD will just make the experience better.
2: As for as onboard sound goes... if you do any significant amount of multiplayer gaming with voice comms, I highly recommend getting BOTH. Onboard sound plus a dedicated soundcard. Use the onboard sound with a headset for your voice comms, and the soundcard for the game. Zero feedback. Don't be one of those guys you can hardly/ever understand because he has a crappy voice comm setup. If you don't do a lot of voice comms, then go with what's already been recommended.
darkestred suggested a cheap PSU, I HIGHLY recommend not cheaping out there. I'm not suggesting a 1.5KW unit, but a $50 one just isn't going to cut it with high-end parts. I used to be a fan of Antec (and they still make a nice PSU), I've been using a Thermaltake in my current rig and am happy. I had a system failure that could not be 100% attributed to the PSU and they swapped it anyway (and upgraded it since the old one was out of stock). If you can, get a modular PSU, it'll help cut down on the clutter.
I'm not up to speed on the Intel parts, all of my personal desktops have been AMD rigs, and if you're not looking for huge speed for media creation/encoding AMD is a fine (less expensive in some cases) choice for gaming.
SSD, get it if you want to spend the money, but I've been VERY happy with my WD Black drives, and they're plenty fast. Example, I was always one of the first 4 people (if not the first overall) to load into maps on COD Black Ops, and I'm still one of the first to load into maps on MW3 (but that's more related to the connection between me and the player hosting the game).
As an alternative, here's what I would build (all prices from Newegg, not all include rebates):
AMD FX-8120 (3.1 Ghz 6-core) $209
Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD3 $155
Corsair Vengeance 8 GB (2x4 GB) CMZ8GX3M2A1600C8R $80 (I picked this kit for the lower CAS latency, makes up for lower clocks)
CoolerMaster HAF-922 $90 (with rebate)
CoolerMaster Hyper 212+ $30 (or the EVO for $15 more)
Thermaltake BlackWidow 850w PSU (W0391RU) $105 after rebate
EVGA GTX580 $490 with rebate
I'll let you decide on storage but these are the core parts. You could also go for a lower-end video card and pick up a second when you want more power, the MB will do SLI. FWIW, I can max the graphics on MW3 on a GTX470, I can also play BF3 on med. or high. with no artifacts or video lag. I've only ever used AMD and NVIDIA parts, never had an issue (except for a 7600GS in my dad's computer that popped some capacitors after 4 or 5 years) while some of the guys I game with have varying issues with their Intel rigs and ATI graphics.
My personal current rig is:
AMD Phenom II X4 955 BE
OCZ BE memory (8GB)
Asus Crosshair III Formula MB
EVGA GTX470
Thermaltake 850w modular PSU (might be the one I noted above)
CoolerMaster Cosmos case
CoolerMaster Hyper 212+ CPU cooler.
2x1TB and 1x2TB WD Black spinning HDDs
As I mentioned, this rig plays Crysis, BF3 and MW3 with no issues.
Last edited by mplevy; January 6th, 2012 at 11:00 AM.
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Excellent advice mplevy. If you're looking at AMD systems, the Phenom II X4 and X6 still pack a lot of power for the price. The X6 1100T even beats the new top end FX-8150 Zambezi in some benchmarks -- and in a lot of real-world cases until apps are recompiled and Windows is updated to support Bulldozer/Zambezi chips better.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mplevy
darkestred suggested a cheap PSU, I HIGHLY recommend not cheaping out there. I'm not suggesting a 1.5KW unit, but a $50 one just isn't going to cut it with high-end parts. I used to be a fan of Antec (and they still make a nice PSU), I've been using a Thermaltake in my current rig and am happy. I had a system failure that could not be 100% attributed to the PSU and they swapped it anyway (and upgraded it since the old one was out of stock). If you can, get a modular PSU, it'll help cut down on the clutter.
I'm not up to speed on the Intel parts, all of my personal desktops have been AMD rigs, and if you're not looking for huge speed for media creation/encoding AMD is a fine (less expensive in some cases) choice for gaming.
SSD, get it if you want to spend the money, but I've been VERY happy with my WD Black drives, and they're plenty fast. Example, I was always one of the first 4 people (if not the first overall) to load into maps on COD Black Ops, and I'm still one of the first to load into maps on MW3 (but that's more related to the connection between me and the player hosting the game).
As an alternative, here's what I would build (all prices from Newegg, not all include rebates):
AMD FX-8120 (3.1 Ghz 6-core) $209
Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD3 $155
Corsair Vengeance 8 GB (2x4 GB) CMZ8GX3M2A1600C8R $80 (I picked this kit for the lower CAS latency, makes up for lower clocks)
CoolerMaster HAF-922 $90 (with rebate)
CoolerMaster Hyper 212+ $30 (or the EVO for $15 more)
Thermaltake BlackWidow 850w PSU (W0391RU) $105 after rebate
EVGA GTX580 $490 with rebate
I'll let you decide on storage but these are the core parts. You could also go for a lower-end video card and pick up a second when you want more power, the MB will do SLI. FWIW, I can max the graphics on MW3 on a GTX470, I can also play BF3 on med. or high. with no artifacts or video lag. I've only ever used AMD and NVIDIA parts, never had an issue (except for a 7600GS in my dad's computer that popped some capacitors after 4 or 5 years) while some of the guys I game with have varying issues with their Intel rigs and ATI graphics.
My personal current rig is:
AMD Phenom II X4 955 BE
OCZ BE memory (8GB)
Asus Crosshair III Formula MB
EVGA GTX470
Thermaltake 850w modular PSU (might be the one I noted above)
CoolerMaster Cosmos case
CoolerMaster Hyper 212+ CPU cooler.
2x1TB and 1x2TB WD Black spinning HDDs
As I mentioned, this rig plays Crysis, BF3 and MW3 with no issues.
Not a bad build outside the AMD CPU. How easy was it to configure your PSU? I havent used a modular PSU and im curious about them.
Not a bad build outside the AMD CPU. How easy was it to configure your PSU? I havent used a modular PSU and im curious about them.
I built mine using one of the thermaltake modular PSUs and it was very easy. Each of the cables are labelled to let you know what component they are intened to power (PCI, SATA drives and so on) and they just clip in. I can't say I've ever tried installing a non-modular PSU to compare with though.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xyro
I built mine using one of the thermaltake modular PSUs and it was very easy. Each of the cables are labelled to let you know what component they are intened to power (PCI, SATA drives and so on) and they just clip in. I can't say I've ever tried installing a non-modular PSU to compare with though.
Im looking forward to the modular psu.. should make cable management a breeze in comparison
I'll need to add more pics of the new 560 Ti 448 Core Classified I just bought last week....
Yeah im planning on a 560 ti dual SLI setup but ive held off on pulling the trigger because the price difference between the 560 and the 560 ti is pretty big without a proportionate amount of performance gain. Especially in SLI
Coolermaster HAF 932 (Full)
Intel Core 2 Quad Q9450 @ 2.6GHz
4gb Corsair Dominator GT 1600Mhz
Corsair 850W PSU
2 X Nvidia GTX 285
3 X 500GB Western Digital Hard Drive
1 Blu-Ray Writer &
1 Blu-Ray (DVD writer etc...)
Followed nicely onto my Dell 23 inch SO2309W widescreen monitor.
I have it all hooked up to my TV and Hi-Fi around the house and networked and it works like a charm.
I don't play really play games, I just thought I had some spare cash, so over about 3 months I thought let me make a good build. After I built this, the I7 came out 2 or 3 months later. lol grrrrrr but for what it is, it is a very nice smooth sailing and pleasent build.
It cost me about £600 in total to build.
I would suggest either getting the combo (mobo, i7 and memory together), it could work out cheaper than paying for that seperatley, then all you need to worry about is a good graphics card and hard drive. Optical drives are cheap so you won't have to worry about that.
1 thing I would say is don't waste your time building a really high spec if its not going to be used, I only did this because I had spare change to do so, custom build it to his spec. :-)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pasqo83
My current build is
Coolermaster HAF 932 (Full)
Intel Core 2 Quad Q9450 @ 2.6GHz
4gb Corsair Dominator GT 1600Mhz
Corsair 850W PSU
2 X Nvidia GTX 285
3 X 500GB Western Digital Hard Drive
1 Blu-Ray Writer &
1 Blu-Ray (DVD writer etc...)
Followed nicely onto my Dell 23 inch SO2309W widescreen monitor.
I have it all hooked up to my TV and Hi-Fi around the house and networked and it works like a charm.
I don't play really play games, I just thought I had some spare cash, so over about 3 months I thought let me make a good build. After I built this, the I7 came out 2 or 3 months later. lol grrrrrr but for what it is, it is a very nice smooth sailing and pleasent build.
It cost me about £600 in total to build.
I would suggest either getting the combo (mobo, i7 and memory together), it could work out cheaper than paying for that seperatley, then all you need to worry about is a good graphics card and hard drive. Optical drives are cheap so you won't have to worry about that.
1 thing I would say is don't waste your time building a really high spec if its not going to be used, I only did this because I had spare change to do so, custom build it to his spec. :-)
I was looking at that coolermaster HAF as well... you like?
I was looking at that coolermaster HAF as well... you like?
Yeah i quite like it, its a monster, loads of room for upgrade, extra hard drive and optical drive space or memory card slots etc... it hides the cables really well. the blue lights at the front where you have the additional usb and firewire are bloody powerful though lol.. only downside is it attracts dirt quite quickly,
Im not sure if it was just mine or not though, i get this vibration noise, everywhere and I mean everywhere is nice and tight and even got to the point I used a spirit leveler to make sure it was sitting level where it was positioned, can't figure it out, nothing moves on the bar-stand! lol
I was going to do the whole water setup with it but it would of cost me another £300 quid for the setup so couldnt be bothered with it.. Again, another upgrade option.
My first option was a Coolermaster Cosmos S, just love the look and build of it, but it was bigger than the HAF so chose that, plus the fact I got the HAF for £60 at the time when it was selling for £130, I couldn't really say no to that now could I. lol..
I would get it, you won't be disappointed - have you got one at the moment or still in the looking stages?
Last edited by pasqo83; January 8th, 2012 at 12:16 PM.
That Thermaltake Lvl 10 case is sexy as hell. The cable management in there looks pretty darn good too. If there's anything that I could upgrade in the near future, it'll definitely be my case.
Last edited by NYCHitman1; January 8th, 2012 at 12:39 PM.
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