danaj

I am having trouble deciding what to do with my life. I have gone back to school and I have been having trouble deciding my major. First I wanted to study Anthropology, but then decided it was impractical, as I did want to actually be able to support myself.
I decided to pursue Nursing, which I would be able to support myself with, but I realize that I really don't like dealing with people all that much, or their bodily fluids.
Well now time is running out, I have taken the pre requisite courses for the majority of programs. I have decided that I would like to work in IT. However, I cannot decide between System Administration, or Computer Programming. I figured that many of you here may have experience in these jobs, and could tell me your experiences and opinions. Thanks.

RubiconDude

Programmer. That skill might change in the future, but it's never going to go away.

Not in games though. As a permie, there's too much work, too much to learn, too little money. There can be successes, but the average is pretty crap when compared to "enterprise" programming.

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dan330

do you have experience in either fields?

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danaj

Nope, I am choosing my major. I am good at math. Also, if there is ever a tech problem that my friends or family have they always call me to solve it. Most of the time I fix it with info that anyone can get from a quick goggles search. So I just want help deciding which way to go in school.

dan330

i see....

have you done any coding? do you think you could site in front of a screen.. writing code... developing new stuff for software?

or do you prefer to fix ... issues?

danaj

I cave never done any coding. I don't know if I could because I have never done it. I guess that is why I want to know others experiences so I can make a decision.

Sprawsum

I really can't say since you really don't have any experience in both. Some people even when already working, found the job that is best for them, some opposite of their current job. Lawyer to artist for example.

But I'll vote programmer in this case. You will always have work as a programmer.

dan330

i agree.. programming is a good career field... but it takes a type of person to code....more $$

networks sys admin... the work is more flexible career.. fixing stuff... as long as you can understand technology.. .

DaSchmarotzer

Why don't you try out programming? If you don't have fun whilst learning VB.NET (it's all free for students), then you shouldn't go into programming (in my humble opinion ). I seriously had tons of fun learning that (I had no experience and I did it just for fun).

I sadly lost everything I had done, the first programs, first games, web browser, etc.

Get Visual Studio Express (or professional!) here for free.

Last edited by DaSchmarotzer; December 16th, 2011 at 08:21 PM.

pool_shark

I would say programming. I think you have more choices that way.

I'm a system admin, and although I have worked on several different OS's (Solaris, AIX, Hp-ux, Linux, openvms, svr4, and vmware next year), programmers have more options. Companies always make some form of in house code because it saves money over buying packages.

9to5cynic

I would try a bit of programming on your own to see if you like it. It's kind of one of those things were you like it or not (obviously, those are the two choices :P).

If you like programming, then I go that way. SysAdmin isn't bad either. If you really can't decide, then you could make a program that will decide for you :P

danaj

Lol.

JohnLaird

If you want to try programming I would recommend C# as a starting language. It does not have the same potential for raw speed that C++ does and you are locked into Windows but it is a lot easier to get something done fast. There isn't nearly as much as learning curve as C++ and you can get to GUI programming (forms, dialog boxes and such) very quickly (more instant gratification). Try it out and see where it takes you.

My experience (after being on the job about 3 months) has been this...
1) Most of the time you will be modifying someone else's code to either fix it or add new features. You rarely get to write a program from the ground up, which means you need not only good programming skills, but good problem solving skills to figure out just what the hell the other coder(s) were trying to do and why.
2) You'll need the flexibility to multitask and work on several projects at once (with different priority levels).
3) You won't get your choice of software. If the old code base was compiled with Visual Studio 6.0 and your boss insists on it, you'll be using Visual Studio 6.0.
4) Learning and researching will have to be something you enjoy. You'll constantly be learning new toolkits, new systems, new languages. Nobody is going to want to spoon-feed you information, you'll have to figure things out on your own most of the time.

That said, I like my job...good times and bad times though.

lunatic59

Both are problem solving fields. The difference is that programmers are most time insulated from the weekly (okay, daily) emergencies of the enterprise. They are specialists for the most part. SysAdmins (of which I am several ... Domain admin, SQL admin, Web Admin, Etc.) are generalists who have to cobble together bits and pieces and make it work. Some days I feel part Rube Goldberg, part Thomas Edison and part Dr. Seuss.

Also Programmers pretty much sit and work on a regular schedule where other areas of IT, especially working with infrastructure, travel around and are at the whim of the fates. Be prepared to get called in on weekends when a server goes down or a switch croaks or some jacka$$ CEO locks himself out of his own account and blames you for the draconian security he made you implement in the first place.

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woodstorm

Truer words have never been spoken. Bravo!

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A.Nonymous

This is gospel truth if it was ever spoken.

If you don't like working with people, then SysAdmin is not what you want to be. The job is probably 70-80% people skills and 20-30% computer skills. I used to work with a guy who as a complete and total hack as a computer tech. His clients loved him, worshipped the ground he walked on and sang his praises at the top of their lungs. He had a job with the company as long as he wanted one.

You also have to deal with a lot of user stupidity. We currently have one client who decided he wanted to encrypt the hard drive on his laptop. Problem is the hard drive has become corrupted and he didn't back up the encryption key. Further complicating the problem is that he is a big wig at one of our clients. To make it even worse our boss is not computer savvy at all and doesn't understand why we need a complex encryption key and why we can't just type in a password and decrypt the entire drive.

pool_shark

I disagree. I rarely speak to our customers, I prefer to communicate via email. Even still, most of my work consists of server builds, upgrades, patches, cloning, expanding/adding file systems, audits, and documentation.

A.Nonymous

Regardless of how you're communicating, you still have to manage the client just as much as the computer systems. We've got a client currently that would really benefit from an Exchange server. Their hosted solution sucks balls and they offer horrible customer service. They've got several virtual servers going. We gave them pricing for extra ram, hard drives, etc.... that it would take to give them an Exchange server. They came back and said that they wanted an Exchange server, but didn't want to add any extra hardware. We can't get through their heads that they can't get Exchange without adding hardware.

dan330

Option 1: give them a quote to do it right with a new server...

Option 2:give them a quote to do it their way.. on an old server they have...

Option Fix: then give them a quote to redo it after the doing it the wrong way.. which should come out to more than doing it the correct way in the first place. more than option 1 + 2...

explain to them, that your company gave them the options.. and explained the issues..

obviously ..Option Fix would make your company the most profit and labor.

Snow_Fox

I was in it for programming.

It is a love it is a passion and a way of life.

Some people say "you never stop learning it sucks!" But, if you look at the positives of learning.. You stay sharp and it keeps you on your toes. It is a beautiful field.

Oh well.. Maybe one day I'll finish school x.x

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lunatic59

In a perfect world where everyone was intelligent and reasonable, perhaps. In the real world ~60% would wake up and realize they need to re-think their postition. That's not saying they would end up doing option 1, it just means they'd understand each option.

~20% Would try and pick items from both proposals a la carte in an effort to bring costs down.

~15% would simply not understand why they couldn't at least try it their way first and then 'upgrade' if it didn't work for only the cost difference between option 1 and 2.

~5% would proceed with option 2 and then become angry with you for it working poorly or not working at all.

It would be great if the bottom 20% or problem companies could simply be dropped, but sales has quotas and once contracts are signed, there are obligations.

This is the kind of things system engineers deal with daily.

pool_shark

I think you missed my point. My point wasn't that I email more than calling, it was that I do more tech work than deal with customers, whereas you said dealing with customers was the bulk of the work.

7runx

Currently going for my Associates in computer Science and am about to take my CCNA Final

Most employers are looking for Network administrators that also have knowledge in Desktop help. If you have vast knowledge in computers and networking. Its the field to go into! Its way more exciting. Who wants to sit at a computer and look at code for 8 hours a day? Not this guy. I would rather be out in the field.

erikiksaz

I agree with the others. Give programming a try first before jumping in head-first. You may love it...or, you may hate it.

I know for a fact that I did not want to pursue one of my hobbies as my full time career. Once you get into it full-time, it is hard to distinguish between what you used to love and what you are now just doing for the money. It kills the fun. At least for me.

A.Nonymous

I think your job is the exception. Most sysadmins have to deal with the people who actually use their systems. In any event, the job involves a lot of people skills.

We've given them a quote to do it right. The virtual host simply doesn't have the resources to run another server, much less an Exchange server. It just doesn't. We have to add more hardware to the server. Otherwise, all the servers on that virtual host will woefully underperform and they will be extremely unahppy. **le sigh** The sad part is if we did it their way and it failed (which it would), they would completely blame us. That's how the world works unfortunately.

Martimus

I've only been in technology for about 30 years so I may not be the most qualified to answer your question...

I started my career as a programmer... wrote several million lines of code back in the days before Visual programming systems came about. After about 6 years in that field I felt myself burning out... so I moved into System Administration. I actually enjoyed that though back then I was managing old Dec VAX computer systems. Incredible hardware platforms but since DEC broke up there's not a lot of demand for VAX admins anymore. From there I "re-invented myself" and became a Network Engineer. I ultimately became a Manager and then a Director before deciding it was time to re-invent myself again. Now I design and architect large scale data networks. A long time ago a mentor of mine told me that it's good to re-invent yourself every now again. Helps to keep the job skills fresh...

If you decide to go into technology, don't limit yourself to one specific field. Learn different aspects of the field and continue to develop your skills. In the long run, you'll be happy you did...

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Last edited by Martimus; December 19th, 2011 at 12:37 AM.

SUroot

There's a lot of money in programming right now. Particularly c# and java for what I'm seeing on the it job sites I use. Which makes sense given the growing trend.of applications running thin rather than fat client.

One thing I would warn though, particularly with system administration... its alright studying IT, but unless you have a natural aptitude or ambition for it, you may never be exceptional. I see many people even with mcsa/e and they just haven't got a clue in reality.

The fact it was between nursing and IT concerns me that you're not as interested in IT as I would expect you to be, so do think hard about this before making a decision.

I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but people get laughed at (in my country at least) when they do not possess the logic and methodical approach needed along side the knowledge.

I'm not saying you dont have this. I don't know you.. but I'm just warning you that you need it if you want to be good at it.

If you have it and are genuinely interested, go for it I say

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alostpacket

This is pretty spot on except that programmers do have some evil schedules too sometimes. It's not like IT, where you're really at the mercy of the situation. But they call the days/weeks/months leading up to a software launch the "death march" for a reason This is especially true in games.

Also both IT and programming are fighting off-shoring so it's important to be the best that you can. Also neither career will let you ever stop learning like being a lawyer or some such. You dont go to school and then you're done. You will need to incessantly improve your skillset, learning new technologies/etc to remain relevant.

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Last edited by alostpacket; December 19th, 2011 at 11:00 AM. Reason: brushing up on the edit button

lunatic59

This ... Actually, by the time you get out of school, the technology you learned as cutting edge in your first class is most likely obsolete by graduation. You have to have a mind like a sponge, a memory like a camera, the stamina of Rocky Balboa and the metabolism of a hummingbird on crack.

(having a liver like a sponge comes in handy, too, when it's time to decompress.)

alostpacket

So true. Just gotta watch out at those office holiday parties. If you're thinking of dancing on the table.... it's time to head home! errr right...


Anyways, I find it very cool and interesting we all basically said the same thing/gave similar advice

SUroot

I have a pretty bad memory on the whole. I just write shit down and organise my bookmarks well

A.Nonymous

I'll agree with the outsourcing thing. I work for a local outsourcing company. It's cheaper to outsource than it is to hire internal people. I would say the real threat to sysadmins right now is the cloud. More and more companies are moving to Google Docs, Office Live 365, hosted Exchange and other ASPs. Currently, there are limitations to those services and there can be big advantages to having your servers in house. I see a lot of those advantages disappearing. Office in the cloud doesn't have the features that Office installed on your computer does. Five years from now, that'll change. If everything is out in the cloud, why have anyone work on your local stuff at all?

I'll second this as well. I work with guys who have their MCSE and got 90-100% on all their tests without even trying. If you want arcane knowledge about Exchange, they are who you should look for. If you want someone who can actually fix your computer, you're better off looking elsewhere. If there is a problem, they reach for the shelf and throw every possible solution at the problem without even bothering to think about what the issue could be. Consequently it takes them two or three times longer and sometimes more to solve the problem. They can study material and regurgitate it on the test, but they just don't have the critical thinking skills to figure out the problem. If they see a solution, they don't even bother to think if the solution will actually work or not, they just try it. Critical thinking and pure instincts are a must.

Martimus

The challenge with cloud is that it's still a somewhat nebulous subject. Ask 10 people what they think cloud computing is and you'll likely get 10 different answers.

Hosting services in the cloud has numerous inherent advantages since upgrades and maintenance become somebody elses problem. It also creates new issues since now IT departments are no longer in control of pieces of their SLA's. If the corporate MOE connection to the Internet goes down or the providers server farm goes down, your employees now have to wait for a third party vendor to resolve their issues before you get your email, virtual server, or application server back.

And, on a more positive note, it means network guys like me get more work... since we now need to architect larger bandwidth solutions with higher levels of resiliency, and multiple fallback solutions in the event of a failure.

Personally I both envy and pity the folks just starting their careers in networking. It's going to be interesting to see how technology has to change in order to accommodate the eventuality of cloud-based computing.

A.Nonymous

I agree that all of those things are big questions now. But five to ten years from now I don't think they will be. Just 10 years ago, the idea of doing cloud computing was science fiction. Sure, there were high speed data lines, but they were expensive and no one had them except universities and big businesses. Now, I've got clients who can get 40-50 mbps for $100-200 a month or less. Tether those together (which is a possibility here though none of our clients do it) and you've got 100 mbp redundant Internet that has virtually 99.9% uptime. Most clients I've got relying on the cloud have failover firewalls and failover Internet solutions. As the technology develops I see the need for both of those diminishing somewhat. Even if it doesn't, if you don't need a server at all and you just need a couple of firewall and a pair of modems, you're still out less money and less IT costs.

I agree with you completely that the cloud has limitations today that don't make it very practical for every business. I see a lot of that changing though. I've got one client where I can reboot the server in the middle of the workday and no one at all notices. They do 90% of their work in a hosted app. It takes email down when I bump the server and someone sometimes notices that and says something. Usually I can get away it. I can see a lot of companies moving that way in the next 5-10 years.

richphitzwell

Disclaimer ...didnt read responses. With that said a programmer is more advanced yet is outsourced to pick a country first. An admin is more personal and onsite but every company will require bs knowledge to get past hr. For instance do you use winxp version xxx when in reality you know far mor than that particular build but may take a minute to learn exactly what that particular build is and isnt.

SUroot

I think its hard to call one out of two almost completely different disciplines more advanced. In fact, I take offense to that.

A.Nonymous

The disciplines are definitely related. I'm a sysadmin. I was asked the other day to debug a program for a client. This is a program that a 3rd party vendor requires this client to use and now it's broken and the 3rd party offers no support for it despite requiring it's use. Good times. It's been 10 years since I've done any VB coding and I find that my lack of experience in this area is hurting me at the moment.

SUroot

They're relayed but completely different. Same as road sweeping or collecting the bins (trash) are related. Same ball park but different teams

edge

Take some programming classes and get your feet wet. Some can't stand it, some love it.

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johnlgalt

Everybody's got some great advice, and I really cannot add to it, but I can highlight Lunatic's and SURoot's posts - they hit the crux of the different matters you should be contemplating in your future career choice.

Also, don't rule out Martimus' post -the need to reinvent yourself every so often, even if reinventing simply means taking on a new hat or learning a new development language t code - you gotta keep abreast of things, b/c the times, they are a'changin.

Also, consider your current position carefully - do you like it when people come to you asking about tech stuff, especially for help with their computers? Do you ever get fed up, particularly if it is the same user with the same problem repeatedly? You'll run into this issue as an admin - you need a high level of patience.

Then again, as a programmer, you might be put in a position where you inherit someone else's codebase that you have to maintain - and if it was cobblepot patched together then you'll need the same (or even greater amounts) of same said patience in order to work your way through the code and figure out not only what the coder intended but how you can fix it without crashing the app(s).

FWIW - I've done Tier I and II end user / desktop support for a number of years, and I've dabbled at coding for almost as many - Fixing my own code is easy enough - but looking at others' code, and in particular people who half-ass code, is frustrating beyond belief. I've worked under 3 different SysAdmins, and watched what they had to go through all day (under two of them I was actually taking on a load of their work as well, sort of in between in-training and junior admin) and both sets of jobs required the utmost patience - but by far the harder was dealing with people face to face. Some people just don't get anything logical, and they're also usually a pay-grade (or three) higher than you.

Since I'm good in Math, I decided to reinvent myself - I went back to school, obtained a Comp Sci Baccalaureate, and am now finishing my Master's in Biotechnology (and I complete a second baccalaureate in Mathematics during the first year of my Masters), and I plan to tie it all together with a Ph. D. in Bioinformatics. I wanted the math degree, but the CS degree was more suitable for job purposes, as I had no plan to do a Masters, but then I changed focus and shifted gears and realized that as long as the economy is tanked, I might as well continue on in school. So, here I ma having completed 3 semesters of my 2 year Master's program.

Have fun!

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A.Nonymous

Agreed. I've got one user who keeps downloading every program on the Internet that says "Click here!!!". Then she calls me and wonders where all the crap programs came from and how to get them off. Every couple of weeks I have to go uninstall all the crap off her system. I've now denied her admin privileges on her workstation although I expect phone calls and complaints about that.

I second this as well. I can read my own code. After all, it's brilliantly written by an exception mind. Other people's code often looks like monkey scribblings to me. It's even worse when people can't be bothered to comment their code making it all the more difficult to untangle.

I'm wishing there was a like button. Truer words have ne'er been spoken. I go back to the people I mentioned earlier who want an Exchange server, but don't want to pay for it. You really shouldn't have to explain to fully grown adults with successful careers that you cannot get something for nothing.

A.Nonymous

I don't know. I'd say it's more like a defensive end and a quarterback. Same team, same sport, different set of skills. Put the QB on the defensive line and he's probably better than the average schmuck you can pull of the street. He's still a professional athlete. He's got pro football experience. He's still going to suck compared to every other defensive end because it's not his specialty. Same thing if you put the DE under center. He's more athletic than the average guy. He knows the playbook. He knows the guys he's playing with. He's not going to be as skilled as someone who plays the position every day.

SUroot

haha. I'm happy with that analogy.

EdenObscured

/\ lol so true.

I seem to do alot of systems admin work (data center is at the warehouse and its right by my house so Im always the first responder) while still getting paid desktop support salary.

Going on 3 years in IT. Close to being burnt out. Though the week vacation I took this week is helping. Also, be prepared to not being able to take vacation whenever you want. It has be approved by all the mangers above and make sure all your co workers know what to do when you're gone and its never technically a vacation because you will be called and emailed when you're away.

Anywho, Im glad I am no longer working in retail though.

Last edited by EdenObscured; December 22nd, 2011 at 06:34 PM.

EdenObscured

I agree. I already sit in front of a LCD screen long enough in the day. I dont want to kill my brain coding 10 hours a day. Now Those as400 programmers, they seem to have fun and have bankers hours

Alittle background on myself.

I went through the CCNA and CCNP academy back in 03 -05 while getting my associates in Networking. When I transferred to a 4 year university, my classses were more manager based. When I graduated in 08. I couldnt find a IT job for 8 months. Finally got picked up doing Desktop Support and been doing it ever since. Though I regret not taking the CCNA and CCNP exam while it was fresh in my brain. I think studying it for a few months will bring me back up to speed but I have no lab to test anything on and at work there is no down time for me to touch the switches or router. Its set it and forget it.


I am going to hunker down next year and study for the CCNA and get that and Network+ certs out of the way.

EdenObscured

System Admin/Desktop support - You will need lots of patience. You will need thick skin. The challenges and rewards are excellent though.

darkestred

Agreed. System admin in what respects? Hardware related? Because there are security admins which are basic glorified data entry.

I would stick away from programming unless its something you really like and can deal with looking through lines of code all while stepping through each line if there are errors.

I'd go with desktop/security anaylst type roles. Do not become an admin unless its overseeing networks or firewalls etc.

EdenObscured

Infrastructure/Servers.


Since I am still green. I just do a variety of things (desktop/server) so a generalist is nice for learning. I have yet to make up my mind if I want to specialize in servers or networking....

I did turn down a Sharepoint admin postiton a few months ago. Can of worms right there. The dude who took the job is tearing his hair out.

Mayhem

This.

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jamesblocker

System administration is concerned with maintaining computer systems in a large organization. A system administrator is supposed to provide technical support and troubleshoot hardware and software problems which means he should have a sound knowledge of operating systems. This job does not involve too much programming, unlike your other option, that of computer programming. A computer programmer is mainly concerned with coding, i.e., writing, debugging, testing computer programs. A strong sense of logic is required if your aim is to become a computer programmer. Now you need to decide what you want to be! I would suggest you look at colleges like CollegeAmerica. It has courses in both the fields you’re interested in. Check up the accreditation, read CollegeAmerica reviews, student testimonials, and do a similar study of other colleges as well so you have wider variety to choose from.