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Old January 7th, 2012, 01:32 PM   #51 (permalink)
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I'm guessing you didn't actually read the entire thread? There is a lot of good information in here, so try to read it all before dismissing it, please.

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Old January 7th, 2012, 01:46 PM   #52 (permalink)
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Please don't assume anything. Nothing was dismissed. However I simply don't have the time to fully respond to everything right now
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Old January 7th, 2012, 02:03 PM   #53 (permalink)
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But you responded anyway
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Old January 7th, 2012, 02:08 PM   #54 (permalink)
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Yep, I'm obviously not where I'm supposed to be
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Old January 7th, 2012, 04:01 PM   #55 (permalink)
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Yep, I'm obviously not where I'm supposed to be
Are any of us really where we are supposed to be? Are we all just drifting through life ending up nowhere in particular or are we really at the place we need to be and just don't realize it?

I now return you to the regularly schedule thread...
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Old January 7th, 2012, 05:15 PM   #56 (permalink)
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I now return you to the regularly schedule thread...
Are you sure this is the regular thread or is the regular thread in another time space ¿?
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Old January 7th, 2012, 05:21 PM   #57 (permalink)
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I prefer Windows (b/c so many ppl use it and thus it keeps me in a job)
I have both. I prefer OS X BUT I also prefer that other people use windows so I can make more money


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Are you sure this is the regular thread or is the regular thread in another time space ¿?
OK now I'm just getting dizzy...
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Old January 7th, 2012, 09:25 PM   #58 (permalink)
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a comparable Mac will be considerably more than a PC of similar specification.
And then again the resale value of a Mac is considerably higher also, so it all washes out

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You can't build your own Apple machines, Hackingtosh's aside.
Don't forget about EFI-X

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mrspeedmaster, thank you for the informative posts. I can see where it can be advantageous in your particular scenario but you are stepping out of the realm of the average consumer which is kind of where the base of this discussion lies.
That's funny, I thought the base of this discussion was which platform was better. Mrspeedmaster shed some light on that and now you want to use a glass ceiling? I think mrspeedmaster did an excellent job of proving their point
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Old January 7th, 2012, 09:37 PM   #59 (permalink)
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That's funny, I thought the base of this discussion was which platform was better. Mrspeedmaster shed some light on that and now you want to use a glass ceiling? I think mrspeedmaster did an excellent job of proving their point

SamuraiBigEd's point was that we are talking about general consumer use. While Mrspeedmaster's example was valid for a very specific set of criteria, the application is impractical for the average consumer. I could easily cite specific examples of vertical market applications where a Mac couldn't even get their foot in the door ... POS systems or Enterprise ERP's off the top of my head, but that's hardly relevant to Joe and Jane Consumer looking for a home computer.

His example is equivalent to saying the Space Shuttle is a better vehicle because it actually works in space and can travel 17,000 mph but I wouldn't want to commute to work in it (unless, of course, I work in space. )
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Old January 7th, 2012, 10:03 PM   #60 (permalink)
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SamuraiBigEd's point was that we are talking about general consumer use.
Sorry but I respectfully disagree. The thread is "Mac VS PC what's better and why ?". It does NOT stipulate anywhere what is better for general consumers. You are assuming that. This is why I originally stated that the OP needed to be specific as to what is meant by 'better'. The term better will on its own be different to different people for many reasons, some of which won't have anything to do with the OS. If someone wants to learn how computers work then PC's are clearly better. If someone wants a virus free environment then Macs are better. I use both. I prefer Macs (many reasons). However I love seeing the hard core windows group, and I will never try to switch them into buying a Mac because truth be known windows users make me money. I can't make money on a Mac user unless they want to buy extra hardware. It's 6 of one and half dozen of another The fact that Mrspeedmaster's was correct shows the foundation of OS X. Like Mrspeedmaster's I use whatever platform provides me with the tools I need.
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Old January 7th, 2012, 10:06 PM   #61 (permalink)
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I'm an equal opportunity hater. I find Windows, OS X and Linux (I run all three, each for its own job) to be equally lacking on all accounts.

I hope Android grows up a little more and just replaces all of them.

I totally mean this.

Until then, get the right OS for you, and if there no right OS for you, get the one that floats your boat.

And I'm sorry - with BSD unix under the hood, OS X is far from being inferior to FP toys - although that was hilarious.
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Old January 7th, 2012, 10:09 PM   #62 (permalink)
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Why not have the best of both worlds. Since Apple started using Intel processors. we can now install all three OSes on Macs & PCs.

I do use all three!
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Old January 8th, 2012, 10:34 AM   #63 (permalink)
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Why not have the best of both worlds. Since Apple started using Intel processors. we can now install all three OSes on Macs & PCs.

I do use all three!
Yes indeed, with Parallels you dont even need to boot camp. Its not an OS thing for me though, as teh hardware is just so expensive to do that and legally you are obliged to pay for Windows ontop of that (unless apple sell MS licences with their devices?).

I only want Mac for one reason, to improve my support skills for our (work's) designer user base. I have a vmx of it but it wont boot in VMware player. I need to try and make one for myself.
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Old January 8th, 2012, 10:50 AM   #64 (permalink)
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So what if the Mac hardware seems expensive (to some)?

All of us are either on contract or paid full price to carry around what is effectively the hardware of an iPod Touch with celluar radio or two added on - one or two more chips and an antenna - for more than a doubling of the price of an iPod Touch. Sounds to me like counting coup on Mac expense is throwing stones in a glass house.

Like any consumer product, the price is just the price.

And price is not a reason to hate on it as containing a worthless OS.

OS X is a highly effective consumer port of NetBSD+FreeBSD+OpenBSD with a Mach microkernel on the bottom end and a nice consumer windowing system on the top end. When it first came out, my website (now defunct) showed how to run a Gnome desktop on it with all Linux apps (GNU apps actually, but most people think the GNU/Linux operating system is all just Linux) thanks to Fink, all at a hot key to switch between the two environments. (No virtual machine required.)

In addition to Parallels and VMWare, if interested in a good virtual machine without having to drop money -

https://www.virtualbox.org/

Universal virtual manager, good for owners of Mac, PC, Linux, Solaris.

It's important to run every operating system you can get because none of them get it right.

It's also important to just run the one that's right for you. And remember VirtualBox.
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Old January 8th, 2012, 11:11 AM   #65 (permalink)
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Woah there Nellie, hold your horses!

I dont hate on the OS because of the hardware prices. I think I wasn't clear in my post.

  • I hate the OS because I think the OS is crap (mainly restrictions - I had already mentioned this earlier, but I didnt reference this in my last post Apologies).
  • I hate the hardware as I think it is over priced
  • I hate Apple pricing as the cost includes the cost of a proprietory OS based on another, existing OS
  • I hate Apple as it's their way or the highway (restrictions again)


These things accumulate my "Hate" of Apple in general.

It all started when the iPod was released and it was seen as the best invention in recent years. Mainly that's society and their blindness coupled with Apple and their marketing "genius".

They claim to invent, create etc when there had been products on the market like that already. Tablets had been around for years. "facetime" already existed. Touch screens already existed. MP3 players already existed.

They rarely invent. I admit that they do often market something in such a way that people who had never been interested in this technology - suddenly are and that helps to revive certain "flopped" technology (tablets for example). I admit also from time to time they have imporved on existing ideas.

I don't hate apple products because I hate apple as a company. I hate/dislike apple products for their own individual reasons. This is then exacerbated by the company I hate for other reasons.

I Dislike the ipod for these reasons:

  • It is not and never has been the best MP3 player on the market.
  • It is one of the most expensive MP3 players on the market.
  • Its made by apple who (although its their prerogative) think its reasonable to charge the earth for a sub-par device
  • Everyone has one because they are oblivious to the above or simply dont care

If you add to this that apple (inadvertantly) "culture" their user base to argue/justify their product is the best, simply because its apple without any technical basis or knowledge of alternative products and their capabilities.

I actually makes me boil under the skin. I unfortunately use this (not quite blind hatred) to pre-judge people. I see someone with an apple product, I cant help thinking their an idiot. I know this isnt the case (not always anyway) but I can't help it.

In short, I feel just in blaming apple not only for forcing upon me an attitude of "I cant take any of your advice seriously, you've got an iSheep" but also for destroying what little faith in humanity and man kind I had left.




EDIT> In regards to virtual machines, VMware doesn't work on Mac but there is no need as parallels is good enough. As for PC / Linux, VMware player is Free for non-commerical use and is much more stable than Oracle's Virtual Box.

I'm actually looking at licences for both of these at work (Vmware Workstation and Virtualbox).

Where as Virtual box is £35, VMware Workstation is £105. For info, I am recommending the users to pay the extra £70
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Old January 8th, 2012, 11:57 AM   #66 (permalink)
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Yeah, ok, fair enough.

However my post wasn't directed at you exclusively, it simply contained elements sparked by reading a number of posts and was just directed at providing some info along with opinions.

As for the OS being crap, if I followed your argument, that's based on it being unsuitable for IT use. Agreed, Windows seems much better for that for most organizations.

But you listed Linux as your first OS choice. Linux is a kernel by Linus and unix apps from the GNU repository, as in GNU's Not Unix (recursive name). One of the first open source projects directed at bringing commercial unix out from under corporate control. Along the same lines, unix was brought much further along by the students at Berkeley, and became the Berkeley Systems Distribution. When Berkeley closed the BSD Lab and kicked it out of the nest, the system forked. OpenBSD (source of any open security you use today, like ssh), NetBSD (unix networking, as stolen by Microsoft to finally get TCP/IP to work) and FreeBSD (emphasis on portability). Those were fully elaborated unix distributions when GNU/Linux was in its infancy.

OS X is a fusion of those distributions along with some eye candy and apps. Hardly crap, but that's just my opinion as a long-time unix user.

Maybe I don't get out enough or maybe I'm just an equal opportunity hater. I've met Apple users who think they rule the planet, Windows users who think they've accomplished something because they've learned how to maintain a system with antiquated constructs and poorly implemented by Microsoft, and Linux users who seem to have never left mom's basement. Yeah, ok, I hate all of those, they're all of the same type. All attitude and no information.

The internet as you know it exists because of BSD. Not just a little - whole cloth.

I simply don't agree that the modern personal desktop version of the operating system that spawned the internet is crap.

PS - As for VMWare not working on a Mac, that's not entirely true. I have it installed on one of my lab Mac machines and last I checked, it was working fine.

http://www.vmware.com/products/fusion/overview.html

For the home user, I still recommend VirtualBox. Most people seem to just want to run Linux completely for free and it serves that purpose very, very well. Again, you can run Linux under a virtual machine on a Mac - or just build your own desktop from open sources, run OS X's native X11, and unix away to your heart's content.
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Old January 8th, 2012, 12:30 PM   #67 (permalink)
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I like linux as its fairly new to me and Im geeky. I like getting right down into it.

I still recommend VMware player for the home linux user / Windows user. Player itself doesnt work on mac but I wasnt aware of a different vmware product for mac. Thanks for the info.
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Old January 8th, 2012, 12:46 PM   #68 (permalink)
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I also have no problem with the computer (now that they run Intel processors) or OS itself, just the company and it's business practices, locked down ecosystem and patent-whoring policies.

While a subject for another thread as example I present Apple filing for a patent on Face Recognition on a smartphone!

On edit: The media reacts like this is something totally Apple.
Apple To Make Passwords Obsolete With New Face Recognition Patent - Forbes

Second edit: OK, I am forced to do a little back tracking on this one. After posting I went to the USPTO website and searched the application published on 12/29/2011 and it is another example of government inefficiency at work, the application was filed 6/29/2010 which could mean Android makers will once again be out of luck in a patent suit.

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Old January 8th, 2012, 01:46 PM   #69 (permalink)
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patent-whoring policies.
Damnit I was going to list that in my post. I know they all do it (sueing one another) but I think Apple do do it to an extreme. Its kind of off topic though.

This thread touts itself as the ultimate face off, but it never can be. Both OS's are constantly evolving, people like myself may inject things from a broader sense than the OS itself, and it is almost partly subjective. Added to which, there will be lots of these threads all over for years to come.
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Old January 8th, 2012, 11:45 PM   #70 (permalink)
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This quickly degraded to a "Mine's better than yours" approach. I've used and continue to use all three, and I find each has its merit in different situations - however, I find that I deal more with Windows users than any for various reasons (which, if I were to list, would start another round of name calling) and that is that.

AngelA's certainly entitled to his / her opinion, as is everyone else. But the problem in all threads like these manifests when regular non-inciting language is dropped for words like "light years behind" and such.

Sorry, that's not a discussion anymore, that's pedagogical vitriol thinly veneered as an opinion. And that is why these discussions invariably get closed.
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Old January 9th, 2012, 09:09 PM   #71 (permalink)
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I prefer linux, use windows (could never get my dialup modem to work in linux), and would like to someday try os x.

I do find the history of the subject to be ... fascinating though.
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Old January 9th, 2012, 09:39 PM   #72 (permalink)
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Believe it or not, MacOS is actually very fun to use - I've never had as easy of a job of joining to the domain as I did when I joined all 27 of the iMacs in the lab to the AD-server on campus - it was the fastest joining of multiple machines I'd ever done.

All the Mac purists were all up in arms about rEFIt when I discovered it, many of whom were saying "I can just use the Command button at boot to pick my OS - Yes, but Windows users won't know to do that, so rEFIt serves its purpose well enough.

Also, for hackintosh, MakeUseOf has a guide for how to build a fully functional hackintosh... and I have Tiger and Leopard in my cache of discs here with me
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Old January 9th, 2012, 09:57 PM   #73 (permalink)
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I would like to try a hackintosh at some point, right now I want to get my first Linux machine up and running.
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Old January 9th, 2012, 10:02 PM   #74 (permalink)
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That's easy lol - Linux is easy-peasy these days because of their own HAL that polls the hardware and then figures out which modules to load.

You want a really fast *nix box? Compile your own kernel and apps specifically for your hardware - so there is no guess work - it turns on, loads the modules it needs without polling, and poof- you're at a login in well under 30 seconds flat from power on.

Of course, that is not for the faint of heart lol....
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Old January 9th, 2012, 10:04 PM   #75 (permalink)
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Not quite up to that, I am more of a hardware guy. Maybe with some serious hand holding I could accomplish it.
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Old January 9th, 2012, 10:07 PM   #76 (permalink)
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^ A lot of linux is pretty easy, installing ubuntu 11.10 is much easier (IMO) than installing windows. Walks you though it, has options for how you want the disk (only ubuntu, dual boot, other)... Installing now (like to start each semester out fresh, and I have heard good things about unity's direction as of late...)

Definitely try it out



@ John - I don't know if this is a real feature, but it seems like I read about it with the new os x update... It was basically backups of each file that you create, so you can restore each variation of the file. Though, it may have been something I was imagining .. ? *shrug* I would like to try it out at somepoint though...
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Old January 9th, 2012, 10:11 PM   #77 (permalink)
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I would like to try a hackintosh at some point, right now I want to get my first Linux machine up and running.
Ahhh, the memories. You never forget your first Linux. My first desktop linux installation goes back to '98 when Red Hat (v5.2) was giving away hats ... which I still have, btw.
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Old January 9th, 2012, 10:37 PM   #78 (permalink)
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Ahhh, the memories. You never forget your first Linux. My first desktop linux installation goes back to '98 when Red Hat (v5.2) was giving away hats ... which I still have, btw.

That must explain the new red colors


Oh yeah, ubuntu 8.04 - during thanksgiving break. Wrecked my comp. I thought all the software in the software center was available to use (like in windows, the install file was there - just had to install it) - but it wasn't. Needed to DL it. And getting a dialup modem working is a major pain!

Fortunately that didn't deter me for too long - learned more about backups and installations that day than ever before, and probably ever after
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Old January 9th, 2012, 10:38 PM   #79 (permalink)
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I'm not too far behind you - I hit FC 2 when it first started making waves....

That's also back when Con Kalivas was writing his patches for the kernels - god I miss those optimized ck patches lol
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Old January 10th, 2012, 12:03 AM   #80 (permalink)
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I have Ubuntu running on my Evo 3D, I guess that was my last install. My first Linux was downloading to a bag full of floppies (still have, along with another OS source on microfiche) but I am not sure of the install date. Early or mid 90s maybe, before Slackware. I still run a RedHat 4 on one machine - quality never goes out of style.

That file versioning thing in OS X - I think you are referring to Time Machine? Pretty cool built in backup - right idea, anyway.
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Old January 10th, 2012, 01:29 AM   #81 (permalink)
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Yeah I've got ubuntu on my desire. Not so much an install than mounting an image in a loop device (the way I did it) but it comes with lxde and its much too windowsee for me.

Don't get me wrong, I love windows. It's my bread and butter. In the same way I don't want my android to look like an iPhone or blackberry, I don't want Linux looking like windows.

I've been trying very hard to get unity 2d running but so far, no luck
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Old January 10th, 2012, 01:57 AM   #82 (permalink)
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If not for an Ati Radeon HD2400 there wouldn't be Microsoft products anywhere near my laptop.
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Old January 10th, 2012, 10:13 AM   #83 (permalink)
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Yeah I've got ubuntu on my desire. Not so much an install than mounting an image in a loop device (the way I did it) but it comes with lxde and its much too windowsee for me.
That constitutes a virtual machine, I'm doing the same. I wrote the script floating around XDA allowing you to resize the image upward if you need that. And I like lxde for a small memory system, the image I started with didn't have it. I probably still have all the links to go thru building your own ARM image if you want to build your own image. I'm back on Jaunty Jackalope and I can offer nothing trying for Unity 2D but my hat's off when you get that working!

How is this on-topic?

If it is at all (and I apologize), it's because on Windows or OS X, if I have an extra machine and not extra cash, I'll install things like Open Office and GIMP and I wanted equivalents for Android. I eventually settled on Office Suite Pro and Photo Enhance Pro, but for a short time, using Ubuntu on my phone gave me desktop capabilities I was missing on Mac or Windows.
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Old January 10th, 2012, 01:50 PM   #84 (permalink)
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Just before we end the off-topicnicity of this conversation, do you happen to have a link to that thread for creating your own images please?

I paid for an installation guide app and was going to ask. didnt know there was a thread for that.
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Old January 10th, 2012, 02:00 PM   #85 (permalink)
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There are several helpful resources for this, all free on the web.

I've got them squirreled away on another machine, will send you a PM later with the links.
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Old January 10th, 2012, 02:04 PM   #86 (permalink)
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There are several helpful resources for this, all free on the web.

I've got them squirreled away on another machine, will send you a PM later with the links.
Thats brilliant, thanks. I would google it but to be honest, I dont even know what search terms I would use. Headless server is one thing I have learned it is sort of similar too.
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Old January 10th, 2012, 02:09 PM   #87 (permalink)
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off-topicnicity
Nice word!
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Old January 10th, 2012, 02:11 PM   #88 (permalink)
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Old January 10th, 2012, 04:17 PM   #89 (permalink)
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Nice word!
Feel free to use it. Its one of my own

It was between that or off-topiciciousness.

Also, antidisofftopicarianism (Keeping the topics off track since May 2010)
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Old January 10th, 2012, 09:21 PM   #90 (permalink)
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I resemble that last one! lmfao
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Old January 11th, 2012, 08:46 PM   #91 (permalink)
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You want a really fast *nix box? Compile your own kernel and apps specifically for your hardware - so there is no guess work - it turns on, loads the modules it needs without polling, and poof- you're at a login in well under 30 seconds flat from power on.

Of course, that is not for the faint of heart lol....
That is one of the great things I like about Linux.
I can build a small footprint server under 300megs.
I set up about 20 ubuntu servers running JeOS (Just enough OS) virtualized w/ XEN and I love it. I was able to copy whole servers/backup on usb sticks.
All I needed were apache, ffmpeg and a few command utilties.
Linux is very lean and fast...



Now to a different note.

I do not understand how SOME Linux users can hate on OSX yet embrace Windows.
If you are one of the Linux users who are fully committed in the GNU open-source model, I respect your religion. I totally understand embracing the GNU religion and distancing from the close-source model.
I, do, I respect that but if you embrace Windows (in the slightest) , it seems contradictory.

To me, Linux, BSD, OSX all all kissing cousins because we all use POSIX userland tools. The concepts are similar in nature. You have your bash shell, posix, similar dev tools -- perl, python.
You similar file-tree (/etc/, /var/,/usr/, /bin/).

Apple contributes quite a bit to open source (Apple - Open Source) and their contributions are more germane to Linux than what MS has to offer.
E.G. Changes to Apache, bonjoir, mdns, CUPs. They own CUPs and yet maintain it as completely open. Every Linux user benefits from CUPs if they use a printer (CUPS).
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Old January 11th, 2012, 11:34 PM   #92 (permalink)
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Thanks for a good post and some sanity - I think that a lot of people do forget that Apple is not all Evil Empire and Micro$oft is not all Big Brother and that Google is not all Secret Spy. They all contribute stuff in various ways, but I can see why anyone would choose either side of your point - embracing either of those two companies, MicroSoft or Apple - just because Apple contributes to these sources does not mean one can overlook other facets of the company that are not anywhere near open source. Add to the matter the fact that they OS is still closed source, as is developing on the platform, and yet they are using the same hardware as any PC manufacturer....

To someone who were to glance at the situation, it could just as easily look like the support of FOSS that Apples puts forward is but a smokescreen toe appease the masses....

I'm guessing I don't need to state the same holds for M$, b/c, well, it does. Lol.
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Old January 12th, 2012, 01:02 AM   #93 (permalink)
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How much open source code is Windows built from? I bet there's a little, ms are always being reported on for stealing stuff.

But osx is an open source base, sold. I don't agree with that.

It may be contradictory, but I'm allowed to be because 1) I am human and 2) I am a hypocrite

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Old January 12th, 2012, 08:54 AM   #94 (permalink)
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As a Windows-Mac convert in progress I'll add my $0.02

Hardware design:
Overall Apple builds a solid laptop, all aluminum construction just makes the laptop feel SOLID and it looks really nice. The keyboard and trackpad are nice bits of design and engineering as well. Compared to the Dell Latitudes/Inspiron and the HP Pavilion machines I have experience with, the Apple is just better from a build quality/design standpoint. The screen is second to none, especially in bright sunlight. I could sit on my deck in the summer (North side of the building) and be able to read text on the screen clearly, I couldn't do that with either of the other laptops at my disposal.

OS:
Windows has some things it does better but after using OS X Lion for the last few months (work-supplied Mac) I'm beginning to see the light. Some tasks are easier, some things just make sense. Daily I have multiple "desktops" in use, one with email one with web browser and one with chat client. In fact I'm using a 13" MBP with a Windows machine with dual 19" LCDs sitting right next to me. The Mac just "feels" faster (Mac is a 2.3 i5, the Dell is a 2.5 i5).

Yes, there are SOME things one can do that the other can't (goes both ways), but that's why I have RDC installed on the Mac, and the Dell computer still functioning as it's supposed to.

To the point of automation. Windows 7 has the Powershell now, I would imagine some of what a previous poster had scripted on a Mac could possibly be done with Powershell on a Windows 7 box. I haven't gotten into that yet but I probably will once I'm ACMT certified.

I won't speak to the cost perspective as I haven't shopped laptops or desktop parts in depth in the last year or so.
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Old January 12th, 2012, 10:09 AM   #95 (permalink)
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It's helpful to look at how, when and why the two companies embraced unix.

Apple did it upon Jobs' return, when they were at the point of maximum damage from the Skulley days. Internally, they had in the past looked at various OS alternatives to MacOS but those went nowhere. Jobs got that MacOS was beyond repair, and along with his NeXT experience, saw a bit of light. OS X was launched and the open part of it became the Darwin project. Interestingly, the BSD kernel was abandoned in favor of the Mach kernel, whose source code at the time was quite a mess.

The first open source I'm aware of in Windows was their TCP/IP improvements (back around 2000 or so when networking _really_ started to work well on Windows), stolen whole cloth from BSD without credit. This was strongly denied as re-engineered until someone leaked source and it still had the open source credits in it. Then there was the Microsoft attempt at the Korn shell. Upon its unveiling, an MS wonk stood up and explained how great it was. An old guy in the audience sang out that it violated a number of conventions, and the wonk argued that perhaps the old fart didn't know that ksh was well-known and that blah blah blah. The old fart simply answered, Yes, I know, my name is David Korn. There was a time when Microsoft had guns blazing for FOSS. But that was then.

The relationships of SuSE(*), Novell, Attachmate, WRQ and Microsoft are dizzying. In a day many of us never thought could come, Microsoft now owns Linux-related patents and to top that off, a small piece of your Android phone was paid to MS.

Apple initially embraced open source to survive. Microsoft did it gain a portion of control of a competitor.

Both seem to have succeeded admirably.



*Footnote - in the early dot com days, SuSE Linux was recognized and certified by the EU for telecommunications, and stories of their phone companies adopting SuSE right and left was a common occurrence on Slashdot. What a coincidence how that all ties to phones, money and control and how interesting things ended up playing out today. Yep - total coincidence. I also have bridges for sale.
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Old January 12th, 2012, 10:58 AM   #96 (permalink)
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Add to the matter the fact that they OS is still closed source, as is developing on the platform, and yet they are using the same hardware as any PC manufacturer....
One thing Apple no longer mentions, and they used to -

Darwin (operating system) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

GNU-Darwin Distribution | Free System Administration software downloads at SourceForge.net

We had rather high hopes for that at one point. Oh, well. I did get a good set of usable avatars out of it.

Homepage of Hexley the DarwinOS mascot

I snipped out the rest of your comment because I agreed with it.
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Old January 12th, 2012, 12:27 PM   #97 (permalink)
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All 3 are manufacturers of children's educational toys (electronic).

Fisher price and speak and spell go back certainly as far as when I was a child. Vtech, probably only the last 10 years





forgive my poor eye sight...but aint those mac books ?
 
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Old January 12th, 2012, 12:31 PM   #98 (permalink)
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not that i dislike apple products or anything but if you ask me, id say that apple products are fashon accessories, not hard core tech like windows or LG.
 
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Old January 12th, 2012, 12:55 PM   #99 (permalink)
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Can't overestimate the power of the killer app, in my opinion.

Mac started with a few, Word, Lotus, Paint, but before long, you got Office bundled on just about every new PC. That is a killer app suite. (Also runs well on a Mac after you pay extra.)

Then Microsoft bends over backwards to help developers, especially peripheral developers. The rise of killer apps supported on a wider range of hardware.

I don't think it's so much the operating system as the killer apps.
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Old January 12th, 2012, 04:13 PM   #100 (permalink)
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killer ap = VisiCalc!!!
anybody remember it??
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