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Re: Comparing SSD's
You can install any programs you want on the Hdd just by pointing the install to Hdd. You can also still run any programs installed on the Hdd by running the exe and/or creating a shortcut on your desktop pointing to the exe in Hdd program files
I remember some people were talking about pagefiles and stuff....whats teh best thing to do with it?
Oh boy, that's a whole new can of worms you've opened.....
There's a good (and relatively easy-to-understand) article here. It was authored by one of the Win 7 development team so the info should be taken as reliable.
Iirc, when I installed Win 7 the scheduled defrag, pre-fetch and super-fetch were disabled by default. I disabled indexing on the system volume (C: ) myself.
As far as the pagefile goes, I moved mine off the SSD onto a surplus 500MB SATA drive. It's likely slightly slower there than on SSD, but processing images in Lightroom can swell it quite a bit so I trade ultimate performance for long-term reliability.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mehta23
I did notice that steam now asks me where to save the games.. :-D
If you install the Steam client to HDD then it will also place its game files there. Ditto for EA's Origin.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mehta23
I don't think this should be bad but my hdd isn't visible in the bios here
Is the platter drive selected as "bootable" in the BIOS? It won't show in the "Boot priority" menu unless it's selected as such. Also, don't add it if it's not got an OS installed. I've done that, tried to boot from it, and got the t-shirt with "Doh!" printed across the front.
My HDD still has Windows on it, and I can still boot from it, just using the menu from the second picture, so I guess it's bootable.
Edit: Managed to get Steam working from the HDD! Just had to be patient and wait for it to configure itself. How would one go about moving same games to my SSD? (Also, I have Assassin's Creed which I got from the Ubishop, so that might complicate things?)
Last edited by Mehta23; February 22nd, 2013 at 01:12 PM.
My HDD still has Windows on it, and I can still boot from it, just using the menu from the second picture, so I guess it's bootable.
Edit: Managed to get Steam working from the HDD! Just had to be patient and wait for it to configure itself. How would one go about moving same games to my SSD? (Also, I have Assassin's Creed which I got from the Ubishop, so that might complicate things?)
I plan to do clean installs of everything, tbh. Gonna reformat my Barracuda as well. Just out of curiosity - should I set the SATA (for SSD) to AHCI prior to installing OS?
How would one go about moving same games to my SSD?
You mean games currently installed on the mechanical drive? I believe it can be done by copying the installation folder to the SSD and symlinking that back to the original location, but that's way beyond my sphere.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYCHitman1
should I set the SATA (for SSD) to AHCI prior to installing OS?
I can. Older operating systems and not-so-old utilities can't understand AHCI. AHCI may offer a performance benefit, at least on paper. But it can also be the source of mysterious and troublesome problems. IJS
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Re: Comparing SSD's
Maybe it's the lazy way but Windows Easy Transfer saved me a ton of time.
Just powered through all the updates and still need to get video drivers rocking.
Dropbox isn't trying to let me point to my old dropbox location... Keeps telling write access denied, thought I already fixed all the share and ntfs permissions. Sure as sh*t don't need dropbox to sync on the ssd. Plus I have 20gigs in just that folder.
I'm sure I'll be up all night playing. I did immediately partition off 45gigs for a fresh win 8 dual boot, but I'll get my 7 enterprise straightened out before I delve into that.
You mean games currently installed on the mechanical drive? I believe it can be done by copying the installation folder to the SSD and symlinking that back to the original location, but that's way beyond my sphere.
Maybe, but in this context I'm pretty sure we're talking about, at the oldest, Windows 7 here.
Sure, I agree completely with that.
But just recently I was shocked when a recent, up-to-date disk utility completely failed to recognize any HD until I switched off AHCI. I also have a Windows 7 box that shipped in IDE mode, not AHCI for some reason. And because Windows 7 will not automagically load the AHCI driver at boot time if it hasn't been installed in AHCI mode, I'm stuck with it set like that.
My own research on the matter has turned up the fact that the only improvements that AHCI brings is support for hot-pluigging and NCQ, but other than that it's not an improvement over IDE mode. (Transfer rates remain the same.) It's also still buggy enough for Intel to recommend work-arounds.
If you have a SSD, you'll want to use AHCI if at all possible. But you'll also want to know enough to remember that IDE mode will work just fine if you have strange, unexplainable problems while in AHCI mode. Forewarned is forearmed.
Though a ton of my task bar shortcuts still work fine pointing to hdd...
I'm just going to do what you did, and use Windows Easy Transfer from my old HDD to the SSD. I'm way too lazy to go through all of that again. I'm leaving all my games off of the SSD though except Torchlight 2.
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Finally getting round to uninstalling duplicate programs on my HDD, managed to find a way to move my Rainmeter saves to my SSD, and cleaned out some folders on both drives.
Quite the productive couple of hours
Anyone else got round to doing some tweaks on their SSD? :P
A registry edit can fix that. Reboot, switch to ACHI in the BIOS, reboot again and you'll be running with AHCI.
I'm aware of the hack. In my case it's a case of too little return for what could be a lot of work if it goes wrong. As a rule I never recommend hacks to an audience that's not all-pro.
Quote:
I wonder if it's Intel themselves who are having the "bug" issues? AMD appear to have no concerns.
AHCI is Intel's product. And it's not a CPU issue, so an Intel/AMD comparison is beside the point. It's a BIOS and device driver issue. And IME it's not quite sorted yet. Certainly worth a try, but also worth learning the fallback options if there are problems. Nothing less, nothing more.
Quote:
For sure, as without it TRIM commands won't be passed to the SSD firmware.
Precisely!
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AHCI is Intel's product. And it's not a CPU issue, so an Intel/AMD comparison is beside the point.
I beg to differ. AHCI is a technical standarddefined by Intel. Mainboards with AMD chipsets use AMD-written drivers that comply with that standard, and I've never seen anything from AMD warning about issues with AHCI.
Otoh, I remember the trouble users had with X-25 SSDs becoming paperweights when a firmware update was performed in AHCI mode, even though it was supposedly supported. More recently, the latest Intel SSD Toolbox software no longer recognises an Intel SSD if an AMD driver is loaded; the previous version had no such issue. So it's fair to say that I don't view Intel as paragons of virtue.
Before you do, I wish you'd consider the difference between an individual thinking of AMD as only a CPU manufacturer, and the more complex realities of this matter. Remember that reality isn't a function of peoples' perceptions (or misperceptions, as the case may be) of that reality. I'm not really asking you to change that post, but I still think that it's important to eschew magical thinking when explaining how stuff works to others. IJS
Quote:
AHCI is a technical standarddefined by Intel.
Yes, I know. I thought I made that clear in my last post. A chain is only as good as it's weakest link, and even Intel doesn't advise using AHCI mode.
Quote:
Mainboards with AMD chipsets use AMD-written drivers that comply with that standard, and I've never seen anything from AMD warning about issues with AHCI.
While both Intel and AMD make chipsets for their own CPUs, it's not an exclusive thing. There are other chipset makers out there. And personally I wouldn't be so quick to assume that all device drivers must be written by the chipset maker. I also wouldn't be so naive as to believe that an absence of warning means that everything's hunky dory!
Let's look at some real world examples:
My older Gigabyte motherboard has an Award BIOS for the motherboard. But if you switch to AHCI mode, a separate option ROM loads. Yes, this option ROM has a copyright notice that says its firmware was written by AMD. But the Linux kernel driver for AHCI was written (or at least maintained) by a guy named Jeff Garzik, with Red Hat being the copyright holder, not AMD or Intel.
My newer, but not that new ASUS box has an ASUS motherboard (natch) with Award BIOS that handles AHCI in firmware itself. When I enable AHCI on it, I don't get an option ROM during bootup like I get with the other box, and like everyone gets with their video cards. This motherboard has the Award BIOS (the BIOS is not part of the chipset, BTW) providing BIOS support for AHCI.
This box is running Windows 7, and although I'm running Catalyst software to manage all chipset and AMD and Via drivers, the actual drivers that Windows uses have digital signatures from Microsoft. Ditto for my Intel-based laptop with Windows 7.
Those three boxes don't have RAID cards, but if they did (laptop excepted, of course), it would be the option ROM from the RAID card (and nothing else) that provides the firmware. And, as above, the software drivers would depend on the OS installed. That's how it works!
Quote:
Otoh, I remember the trouble users had with X-25 SSDs becoming paperweights when a firmware update was performed in AHCI mode, even though it was supposedly supported. More recently, the latest Intel SSD Toolbox software no longer recognises an Intel SSD if an AMD driver is loaded; the previous version had no such issue. So it's fair to say that I don't view Intel as paragons of virtue.
Maybe that's why my early generation Patriot SSD never worked properly, and bricked itself during a firmware upgrade. It has too many bad memories attached to it for me to use it as a paperweight, and it's too light to be a boat anchor, so...
The bottom line (still) is to learn about stuff like AHCI first, and don't forget that it's there and can be shut off if there are problems. MOF that's a pretty good rule of thumb for all sorts of situations, if I do say so myself.
You mean Windows indexing? I've never found a good use for Windows indexing, and since it does add overhead, I like to shut it off.
If you do a lot of searches, especially of file contents and metadata, you might benefit from using Windows indexing. If you want to get the best performance out of your shiny new SSD, keep it off.
Before you do, I wish you'd consider the difference between an individual thinking of AMD as only a CPU manufacturer, and the more complex realities of this matter.
Care to explain exactly where I'm considering CPU manufacturers? Nothing in my previous posts mentioned CPUs. I'm talking about the chipsets (you know, the things that determine how the bits and bytes move between the SSD and the rest of the system) and those are also manufactured by both AMD and Intel.
Quote:
I'm not really asking you to change that post, but I still think that it's important to eschew magical thinking when explaining how stuff works to others. IJS
Wow, do you make a habit of patronising everyone who offers an alternate viewpoint to your own? That Wiki link is, quite frankly, insulting.
Quote:
I thought I made that clear in my last post.
A "product" is far removed from a "technical standard". The former implies some degree of proprietorial control.
Quote:
While both Intel and AMD make chipsets for their own CPUs, it's not an exclusive thing. There are other chipset makers out there. And personally I wouldn't be so quick to assume that all device drivers must be written by the chipset maker.
No, but you're quick enough to read between the lines and assume things that I didn't write. For example, I'm well aware that AMD and Intel are not the only game in town. However I have an AM2 board with AMD chipsets and I use AMD drivers, which is why I used the example I did. It's called "illustrating the point".
Aside from nerdy fussing over brands and who said what how..
What the heck is with the lack of OCZ Vertex SSDs?
I know the Sammys are slightly faster but the Vertex 4 vs Samsung 840 Pro is almost a dead heat in terms of performance with the Vertex 4 going on sale for upwards of $60 less for the 256GB model (16GB more than the Samsung)!?
(Or at least it was in late December when I went to SSD)
I've been debating an SSD for my laptop, knowing that Android is optimized for solid-state disk access, but none of the recent x86 ports are capable of booting my older laptop chipset.. yet!
By the time I have something working on the laptop there will probably be a new controller out and I'll just retire this SSD in my computer over to the laptop and get the latest deal. ;P
Aside from nerdy fussing over brands and who said what how..
What the heck is with the lack of OCZ Vertex SSDs?
I know the Sammys are slightly faster but the Vertex 4 vs Samsung 840 Pro is almost a dead heat in terms of performance with the Vertex 4 going on sale for upwards of $60 less for the 256GB model (16GB more than the Samsung)!?
(Or at least it was in late December when I went to SSD)
I've been debating an SSD for my laptop, knowing that Android is optimized for solid-state disk access, but none of the recent x86 ports are capable of booting my older laptop chipset.. yet!
By the time I have something working on the laptop there will probably be a new controller out and I'll just retire this SSD in my computer over to the laptop and get the latest deal. ;P
I don't have anything against OCZ for SSD's. I actually recommended one to a friend of mine, which he did go ahead and purchase the OCZ Vector 128GB model about 3 weeks ago. I went with the Sammy 840 Pro because it was a sick deal that I couldn't pass up, plus it being king of the hill of the SSD market.
Care to explain exactly where I'm considering CPU manufacturers? Nothing in my previous posts mentioned CPUs.
Nothing mentioned CPUs, no; but did mention CPU manufacturers (which after all what you wrote just above):
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slug
I wonder if it's Intel themselves who are having the "bug" issues? AMD appear to have no concerns.
That was the start of the "Intel v. AMD" comparison.
Also, you did answer me me directly after I wrote "AHCI is Intel's product. And it's not a CPU issue, so an Intel/AMD comparison is beside the point." And in fact you disputed that:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slug
I beg to differ.
(emphasis mine) Fair enough?
Look, my only interest here is education. That includes bringing what looks like questionable logic to light, so it can be sorted out. If I was wrong about your motivations, you have my unabashed apologies. Likewise, if there might have been a little something to my caveat about questionable cause, I'm trusting you to have the higher angels to not "shoot the messenger" here.
What say we both just drop this in the interest of those who just want good answers, OK?
I don't have anything against OCZ for SSD's. I actually recommended one to a friend of mine, which he did go ahead and purchase the OCZ Vector 128GB model about 3 weeks ago. I went with the Sammy 840 Pro because it was a sick deal that I couldn't pass up, plus it being king of the hill of the SSD market.
What I'd like to know is the often huge disparity between read and write speeds, as much as 4:1 with the 840 line. Doesn't it seem suspicious that only the top of the line drives can write as fast as they read? And why doesn't anyone make a modestly sized SSD with the same specs as their largest (and costliest) ones?
Aside from nerdy fussing over brands and who said what how..
What the heck is with the lack of OCZ Vertex SSDs?
I know the Sammys are slightly faster but the Vertex 4 vs Samsung 840 Pro is almost a dead heat in terms of performance with the Vertex 4 going on sale for upwards of $60 less for the 256GB model (16GB more than the Samsung)!?
(Or at least it was in late December when I went to SSD)
I've been debating an SSD for my laptop, knowing that Android is optimized for solid-state disk access, but none of the recent x86 ports are capable of booting my older laptop chipset.. yet!
By the time I have something working on the laptop there will probably be a new controller out and I'll just retire this SSD in my computer over to the laptop and get the latest deal. ;P
I think the general feeling (true or not) is the OCZ drives lacked in reliability and were always expensive (in the past). All they used to have going for them was speed. This may not be as true any more.
Samsung are not cheap, but they had good reliability, barring some launch bugs. And with the 840 Pro they smoked the competition speed wise.
What I'd like to know is the often huge disparity between read and write speeds, as much as 4:1 with the 840 line. Doesn't it seem suspicious that only the top of the line drives can write as fast as they read? And why doesn't anyone make a modestly sized SSD with the same specs as their largest (and costliest) ones?
That's not an 840 line problem, or even Sammy specific, all SSD drives have nearly that ratio... I think (quick glance at benches here )
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alostpacket
I think the general feeling (true or not) is the OCZ drives lacked in reliability and were always expensive (in the past). All they used to have going for them was speed. This may not be as true any more.
Samsung are not cheap, but they had good reliability, barring some launch bugs. And with the 840 Pro they smoked the competition speed wise.
ALP, in my experience I have had awesome performance from OCZ's as has everyone I know running them. I have yet to see a failure and a good friend of mine who is a system builder has hundreds of them out with no issue. I have had a Vertex 3 and an Agility 2 in one system for about a year now and it still runs smooth as can be.
I tend to take what is seen online and in the magazines with a grain of salt and rely more on real world experience. A trend I have seen (with all products, not just computers) is when something goes wrong it is trumpeted from every corner but when things run smoothly you almost never hear about it. I have a new rule I live by because of this (brought on by a product we offer and are about to dump), if you are looking at any particular product and you find nothing negative at all said about it stay away from it! Somebody somewhere will always have something negative to say about any product.
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The SanDisk SSD I picked up has performed phenomially, Windows 7 loads up from cold boot in a snap, even before the logo starts loading. My resource intensive programs go on the SSD, while I shove less used/less power hungry programs on my HDD. It's been an awesome combination and I can't believe I haven't picked one up sooner.
ALP, in my experience I have had awesome performance from OCZ's as has everyone I know running them. I have yet to see a failure and a good friend of mine who is a system builder has hundreds of them out with no issue. I have had a Vertex 3 and an Agility 2 in one system for about a year now and it still runs smooth as can be.
I tend to take what is seen online and in the magazines with a grain of salt and rely more on real world experience. A trend I have seen (with all products, not just computers) is when something goes wrong it is trumpeted from every corner but when things run smoothly you almost never hear about it. I have a new rule I live by because of this (brought on by a product we offer and are about to dump), if you are looking at any particular product and you find nothing negative at all said about it stay away from it! Somebody somewhere will always have something negative to say about any product.
I totally agree!
I was just trying to explain what the general "internet consensus" used to be regarding OCZ: 'as only being good at speed'.
I'm not sure if that's the case nowadays. Frankly, to me, they all seem to have sorted out the controller issues.
Anyone know what IRST and ISCT are? Or if I should bother trying to enable them?
Also, LucidLogix? I understand it just allows you to utilise the iGPU on the CPU when also using a graphics card?
Honestly, it sounds like magic! (probably marketing magic!)
I'm not sure I believe all the claims they make, but it sounds like it is software based switching between discreet and integrated GPU, but also some type of optimization for the rending pipeline. They dont say specifically if both discreet and integrated are used simultaneously, but they give that impression on their site:
Anyone know what IRST and ISCT are? Or if I should bother trying to enable them?
Also, LucidLogix? I understand it just allows you to utilise the iGPU on the CPU when also using a graphics card?
I know that IRST is Intel Rapid Storage Technology. AFAIK, this is better used in a RAID set up, but it's the (Intel) driver used for AHCI or RAID. I think Windows has built-in drivers for either or though.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mehta23
1. 16GB is a lot, no? What do you use your PC for :-P?
2. If i have 8GB, is it worth moving it?
For the average person 8GB ram is plenty (6GB is the minimum I recommend for a system). If you are doing photo editing the more the better, in fact Photoshop will utilize as much ram as you can throw at it and they recommend you max your board out for best results. A good SSD scratch drive is beneficial as well for photo, video and audio editing.
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Re: Comparing SSD's
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