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Old June 18th, 2014, 01:46 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default jerk at work ticking me off!

He is trying to get our office to switch to macs. Apple sales people piss me off more and more everyday!! they are like: "the cheapest mac is much better than the most expensive PC and a must have tool for creative geniuses that need barriers lifted!"

The graphics cards in the 10 cheapest levels of macs can barely play a movie properly let alone video editing which is far more demanding.

It's not until you start dropping 1500$ for a imac you get a GT 750M which only an apple fan would call even half way decent.

I hate them all so much!! Remembering all the people over the years feeding BS about how macs are the best, only because they don't want to feel stupid for buying one.

I just built and donated a Desktop for a local charity, it cost me less than 800$, and I know it can outperform any mac sold in stores.

Then they try to use software as an excuse, "OSX has the best video editing software...!!" - All of the 'good' video editing programs used by real 'geniuses' were written for Windows first then ported to mac. Using imovie to put together clips of your kids birthday doesn't require a 1500+$ computer.

And they had 5400 RPM hard drives for years, even the cheap 500$ windows laptops come with 7200rpm, and they recently started putting tiny SSDs and people are like "OMG!! its so fast!"

And don't even get my started on the bootcamp argument, why the hell would you buy a mac if you need to install windows on it?

!!!! #vent

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Old June 18th, 2014, 02:26 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Old June 18th, 2014, 03:35 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I care for neither Apple or Windows
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Old June 18th, 2014, 04:41 PM   #4 (permalink)
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For my personal needs a Chromebook is just fine.
However, the lady needs to use Office for work so we got a new Win8 laptop. Hate the interface.
And as an aside, when faced with Mac OSX, I'm so lost.
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Old June 18th, 2014, 05:06 PM   #5 (permalink)
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The only difference between Mac & PC I saw besides the OS and quirks thereof in Photoshop, Illustrator and Pagemaker classes was the font size. Mac was smaller than PC and could throw off a layout.

I cross platformed with PC and Canon printer, while most incipient highpower type designer wannabes used the standard Mac and Epson. By the time you printed whatever you were doing, you couldn't tell the difference.

I'm not sure about Apple - but Linux is annoying me since I can't calibrate the monitor to my printer.
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Old June 18th, 2014, 05:25 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I care for neither Apple or Windows
Leaving Linux? From a business perspective its a nightmare to support compared to Windows or Mac...
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Old June 18th, 2014, 05:59 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by breadnatty08 View Post
For my personal needs a Chromebook is just fine.
However, the lady needs to use Office for work so we got a new Win8 laptop. Hate the interface.
And as an aside, when faced with Mac OSX, I'm so lost.
Using a Chromebook right meow.

When it comes to computer hardware, Mac's aren't the the cheapest thing. When it comes to Software... Well, Apple doesn't make the best of the best. That goes to the other people.

Video editing... That's debatable. Any pro video editor for windows is also written for mac. Sony Pictures uses Sony Vegas, and others large picture companies use this too, but I'm sure that many others use Adobe products, and possibly some use Final Cut.
I hear that the filing system on Mac is easier to use than a Windows. When I had a Mac I hated it because it was so confusing and different. But maybe for those who get used to it like it better. I don't know.

When it comes to speed, I think the lightweight OS makes up for the low end hardware.

I remember watching a video on youtube where this guy was upgrading the RAM his Mac Pro, and was so excited that he had faster RAM... At speeds of like 712 or something like that. I was literally laughing because most PC's have speeds of 1666 or something like that. Mine is at 1800 or something like that. It's funny because it wouldn't matter how much RAM you have, if it's slow... It's slow. Sometimes it's better to get faster rather than more. At the speeds the Mac runs at, it's just a joke.
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Old June 18th, 2014, 08:13 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Leaving Linux? From a business perspective its a nightmare to support compared to Windows or Mac...
I guess but I'm not a business and to be honest even if I was I would still use Linux. I just prefer it. I also find it much easier to fix issues in Linux than I did Windows. But honestly I have so fewer issue's with Linux than I ever did with Windows.
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Old June 18th, 2014, 08:37 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Leaving Linux? From a business perspective its a nightmare to support compared to Windows or Mac...
How so?
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Old June 18th, 2014, 10:24 PM   #10 (permalink)
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How so?
Linux is a very powerful OS with a lot of potential...which makes it infinitely easy to screw up. Custom RTUs are the same. I've had to support devices like that which are insanely customizable/powerful (for example Bristol Babcock, Eagle RTUs, and devices that implement Enron modbus). You can program them with extreme flexibility. The problem is that when the original programmer is fired or leaves the company no one knows how the damn thing works. Then they call my company with a problems. Since all of the devices behave differently they are very difficult to support. Linux is the same. It's great if you know what the hell you are doing. Put a person in charge who does not and you have an expensive disaster waiting to happen.
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Old June 18th, 2014, 10:41 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Linux is a very powerful OS with a lot of potential...which makes it infinitely easy to screw up. Custom RTUs are the same. I've had to support devices like that which are insanely customizable/powerful (for example Bristol Babcock, Eagle RTUs, and devices that implement Enron modbus). You can program them with extreme flexibility. The problem is that when the original programmer is fired or leaves the company no one knows how the damn thing works. Then they call my company with a problems. Since all of the devices behave differently they are very difficult to support. Linux is the same. It's great if you know what the hell you are doing. Put a person in charge who does not and you have an expensive disaster waiting to happen.
Seems like what would happen if you put someone in the driver's seat of some vehicle who doesn't know how to drive and let them go
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Old June 18th, 2014, 10:45 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Yeah...if Linux is a Ferrari than Microsoft Windows is a scooter and a mac is a segway. It reduces the threshold for screw ups. And the truth is a lot of people who call-in for support don't know what they are doing...but we have to help them nonetheless.
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Old June 19th, 2014, 05:54 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Yeah...if Linux is a Ferrari than Microsoft Windows is a scooter and a mac is a segway. It reduces the threshold for screw ups. And the truth is a lot of people who call-in for support don't know what they are doing...but we have to help them nonetheless.
Sounds like to me that Linux is not the problem its the lack of intelligence in the world
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Old June 19th, 2014, 07:42 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Linux is fine in business in the server centre. The problem is using it on the desktop because there's still plenty of standard business software that simply doesn't have Linux versions. Same issue with Macs unless you bootcamp.

There's a reason Microsoft are still making money, despite having failed at everything new they've tried over the last decade

Virtualisation and the increased prevelance of web-based end-user tools/interfaces are however, gradually making Linux desktops a little more viable.

The same changes would also make Macs more viable, if it wasn't for the fact that a big driver is that they work on really, really basic and hence cheap hardware - not something you're ever going to get from Apple.

Apple's a premium brand with premium prices. Companies don't give their sales guys Ferraris, why would they give their desk jockeys Macs?
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Old June 19th, 2014, 09:08 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Apple's new MacBook Pro blocks upgrades | bit-tech.net


I have one computer that has been constantly upgraded and updated since W98SE.
It's now a dual boot with Kubuntu and XP. XP is offline, totally.
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Old June 19th, 2014, 01:53 PM   #16 (permalink)
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there's still plenty of standard business software that simply doesn't have Linux versions
Could you elaborate please?
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Old June 19th, 2014, 04:56 PM   #17 (permalink)
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When I worked for Radio Marketing, we had special software written for billing. The writer used whatever MS calls its popular app for writing. It would NOT run on Linux or Apple.

I have embroidery digitizing software that does not run on anything but Windows and preferably XP. I have an offline box just for it.
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Old June 19th, 2014, 08:05 PM   #18 (permalink)
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There are plenty of windows only apps out there and who can blame them Microsofts business practices have made them rich.
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Old June 20th, 2014, 06:12 AM   #19 (permalink)
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It was more the coding from what I heard. If you used MS code it was easier to write and test. If that isn't so, then why did so many AV companies require IE to install?
FoxPro was one program used to write.

The company that wrote the software could more easily debug it by connecting and fixing through your computer remotely. You still need IE to do that.

Programs could be written differently - Eset used and probably still uses Winsock. No IE required. Which is why I use it. I ran a shell that didn't allow IE.

That's also why Mac and Linux have less viruses. Far easier to take advantage of Windows users.
More of them for one - but as greed really takes over, there will be more attacks on any OS.

I worked in a place that had POS software (commercially written, Wnidows only) They needed access to fix a problem, got it, fixed problem. However, user in the store forgot to turn off the store's end. Fortunately, it was only scads of push advertising rather than actual malware.
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Old June 20th, 2014, 06:31 AM   #20 (permalink)
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That's also why Mac and Linux have less viruses. Far easier to take advantage of Windows users
Actually, that's simply not true: there are regular competitions where people try to take control of computers running different O/S and it turns out there's little difference between how quickly they manage to break into Windows, Linux or Mac OS.

The reason there are more Windows viruses and Windows attacks is simply that there are more Windows computers: if you're going to invest time in creating a virus, you'd rather it could attack 90% of computers, not just 10%.

It's probably part of the reason there are - and will be - more attacks on 'droids.

If Macs or Linux became more prevalent, there'd be more viruses and attacks on them simply because it would be more economically viable.
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Old June 20th, 2014, 02:31 PM   #21 (permalink)
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The reason there are more Windows viruses and Windows attacks is simply that there are more Windows computers: if you're going to invest time in creating a virus, you'd rather it could attack 90% of computers, not just 10%.

It's probably part of the reason there are - and will be - more attacks on 'droids.

If Macs or Linux became more prevalent, there'd be more viruses and attacks on them simply because it would be more economically viable.
First off most of the 'viruses' on Android are due to bad apps in the store (or APKs out in the wild) Google doesn't review the source code of these thousands of apps and some slip through that do bad things. However most apps on Linux are open source, the source code is reviewed by a lot of people and the package maintainers take pride in maintaining their integrity. The few apps that are not open source are usually run by reputable businesses that would not want anything malicious to ruin their name.

As far as popularity, Linux itself is everywhere. A big majority of servers and embedded devices, and now even desktop is picking up some. It would make complete sense that a virus would try to target a server to simply infect files it's serving out and infect them. So yes I would there is definitely a market for them now but they just aren't that big of a thing, mostly because Linux is built on top of UNIX user based permissions from the ground up.

Also in my opinion the era or viruses and spyware is ending, things are going mobile and to the cloud. Windows has improved tremendously over the Win98 days (though still could use some work) and exploiting data from the web services people use makes a lot more sense. Even hacking a site without a lot of personal information could still lead to a list of accounts and passwords that they may use on other sites that they could exploit later.
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Old June 20th, 2014, 02:34 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Leaving Linux? From a business perspective its a nightmare to support compared to Windows or Mac...

Only if you don't know what you're doing.
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Old June 20th, 2014, 02:54 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Zegami,

I feel your pain as I work in radio and our company has seriously looked at switching between Mac/PC for years. However we do not have anyone acting like a jerk. We use MS Office and I know Windows and Office can be installed on a Mac but like what you said why get a Mac? For audio production work Mac was the go to choice however there are quite a bit of audio processing software packages that works well on a PC.

Anyway, we came to a conclusion based on a department's need. If a department head deemed an individual's work was best handled by a Mac they got a Mac and the same with a PC. Though some people see a Mac as a status symbol and others just can't make the transition between how a Windows based PC and a Mac' OS differ or work so they are stuck with a PC. No need to frustrate them or IT! We have an excellent IT department that builds our own PC's in batches of 10 or more this way we can control the hardware etc. for our needs.

Maybe this would be a compromise for your company? Determine by department head and individual what meets the workflow need.

Anyway, I do not have any other advice for the jerk except the Bible says a soft answer turns away wrath. Maybe that will help!

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Old June 20th, 2014, 04:32 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Only if you don't know what you're doing.
Yes I agree...but the reality is that a lot of people don't know what they are doing. Linux requires you to learn and be persistent enough to teach yourself. That's a rare quality. That's why Windows exists...for the lemmings. There are lot of them out there.
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Old June 20th, 2014, 04:41 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Zegami, is "the jerk" in any position of authority, or is he just one of the workers?

If the CEO is "the jerk", your company is going to run Macs, even if that's the reason it eventually fails. If he's just a worker who prefers Macs, there are MANY points you can make if it comes to some sort of meeting with those in charge.

Like a Mac is a PC built exclusively by Apple (and monopolies usually lead to only 1 thing - increased price), running an operating system you can't legally install on any other hardware. Windows is an operating system you can install on anything from a $300 piece of junk to a $10,000 server. (Yes, you can use Windows 8 as a server, although that's not the most efficient way to do it.) So with Windows, you can choose the hardware you need, not the hardware Apple wants to sell you. If one PC manufacturer doesn't have what you want, another one will. Or a clone builder will put together just the pieces you need. Why buy a pickup truck to drive to the train station every day?

Just about any software needed in just about any industry that's available on a Mac is available, either from that software house or some other one, for Windows. It used to be that Mac was the best computer for graphics and audio. It also used to be 1990. It's 2014, and button hooks aren't in fashion any more.

If the shop currently has Windows boxes, what's the cost of replacing them all with Macs powerful enough to do the jobs they;'re currently doing - and with hardware that's at least as good as what you have? (Apple sells some pretty cheap hardware - as long as it lasts longer than the warranty, they don't lose anything, you do.) What's the benefit to replacing everything with Macs? (Bean counters look at the cost/benefit ratio. If the benefit is "I prefer Macs" or "but it's a Mac", that ratio is going to be enormous, and they wouldn't waste the paper to poke fun at the proposal.)

But, if worse comes to worst, and the compny converts to Macs, either live with it or look for another job. It's not worth an ulcer or a heart attack. There are more important things to worry about - like which grass fertilizer to use this year.
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Old June 20th, 2014, 06:23 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Old June 20th, 2014, 08:17 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Yes I agree...but the reality is that a lot of people don't know what they are doing. Linux requires you to learn and be persistent enough to teach yourself. That's a rare quality. That's why Windows exists...for the lemmings. There are lot of them out there.


Unfortunately, I think you're 100% right. Its appalling that so many people are so unwilling to learn about something that they depend so heavily on (computers). The future, however, looks bright I think.
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Old June 20th, 2014, 09:38 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Unfortunately, I think you're 100% right. Its appalling that so many people are so unwilling to learn about something that they depend so heavily on (computers). The future, however, looks bright I think.
Let's hope so! (Side note, integrate much? )
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Old June 21st, 2014, 08:36 AM   #29 (permalink)
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Let's hope so! (Side note, integrate much? )

I used to quite a bit .
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Old June 23rd, 2014, 04:55 AM   #30 (permalink)
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As far as popularity, Linux itself is everywhere. A big majority of servers
You're quite right about there being lots of Linux servers - I should have clarified that I was talking about the desktop.

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It would make complete sense that a virus would try to target a server to simply infect files it's serving out and infect them
It would and there are many attacks on servers - particularly web servers. The UK government recently announced a plan to remove some 50% of their web servers because so many have been compromised. Seems many have been put up and then essentially left without maintenance or proper security checks.

Generally speaking though, servers are a tougher target because they're (usually) managed by (presumably) savvy tech teams who aren't going to open a doc from some dodgy e-mail or click on a link to some dodgy website. They also tend to be behind decent firewalls, have properly patched O/Ss and up-to-date AV.

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Originally Posted by cptnobvious999 View Post
So yes I would there is definitely a market for them now but they just aren't that big of a thing, mostly because Linux is built on top of UNIX user based permissions from the ground up.
That's true, but sadly it doesn't guarantee security - think of the recent issues around Heartbleed.
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Old June 23rd, 2014, 05:55 AM   #31 (permalink)
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The only true security system is one that is unplugged and physically locked away
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Old June 24th, 2014, 05:10 AM   #32 (permalink)
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.. and turned off with the battery removed
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