Device(s): HTC One X (Orange UK) - SGS2 (giffgaff) - HTC Desire (SIMless)
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Will the Incredible S & Desire S ever be rooted?
Hello lovely people...
I have heard a lot about the 'signed bootloader' of the new HTC devices such as the Incredible S and Desire S, as many of you know this means it cannot be rooted... This is annoying because these new phones are nicer that the Desire and other older HTCs that can be rooted due to the unsigned bootloader but what puts me off the new ones is that you cannot root them!
Have they made the bootloader signed now just so you canot root and modify the phone?
Also I know there is not an excellent dev community like there is with the Desire but that can begin to happen once it can be rooted... So my question is will these devices ever be able to be rooted by someone finding out how to get past the bootloader?
Also I know Sony Ericsson devices also have signed bootloaders but they offer a tool to unlock it if you wish to modify and root it. Will HTC ever do that? Because the inability to root really puts me off these new phones that are oherwise very nice.
What does everybody think?
__________________ Devices:
- HTC One X (Stock on Orange UK)
- Samsung Galaxy S II (Running D4 ROM on giffgaff)
- HTC Desire (Running GingerVILLAIN, with no SIM )
Last edited by ajh94; May 4th, 2011 at 03:31 AM.
Reason: Add Additional Information...
The most they have got so far is temporary root, but as soon as the phone is restarted then it just resets its self to normal. As SU root said where theres a will theres a way.
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what htc have done is what killed dev production for the x10
it will backfire when sales flood to the likes of SE and Samsung. sammys have been notoriously easy to root and SE have learned from their mistake and watching how big the desire/n1 has got due to rooting.
HTC's loss, ill go where the noise is and the best devs are at the time.
its the community that makes this device worthwhile not so much the people that made it.
theyll learn and within a year of devices that under-perform to their expectations and suddenly make it "a little" easier to root
Thing is, even Mr-corporate-lockdown-motorola-you-cant-do-that has even turncoated it to unlocking their bootloaders (going forward) after seeing HTC's success and many petitions.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SUroot
Thing is, even Mr-corporate-lockdown-motorola-you-cant-do-that has even turncoated it to unlocking their bootloaders (going forward) after seeing HTC's success and many petitions.
HTC are backwards.
As I say, I'm seriously considering the SG2 as my next phone. When I bought my Desire, Sense was by far superior to the others like touchwiz and stock. But now, I love Gingerbread. TouchWiz 4 seems pretty stalk now anyway, and if it got CM7 etc it would be sweeeeeet.
Anyone would think HTC have a roadmap of releasing regular updated phones that run on newer software and forcing people to upgrade their handset rather than running new software.
Although they have been nice with the Desire in giving updates up to 2.3 but who knows if they'll do the same with updates for the locked phones.
If they are locked people will just have to like it or go out and buy a newer handset.
On the other hand HTC may find people won't but thier newer handsets, but instead settle on the original desire.
Two fold avantage there cheaper to buy & easy to get root
On the other hand HTC may find people won't but thier newer handsets, but instead settle on the original desire.
Two fold avantage there cheaper to buy & easy to get root
People are more than willing to go out and buy a new overpriced handset for a few extra features every year.
Just look at the iPhone.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kibbster
People are more than willing to go out and buy a new overpriced handset for a few extra features every year.
Just look at the iPhone.
this is true, thats why they wont bother with htc (atleast the dev community will lose faith in them) and move to other manufactures like SE, LG, Moto, Samsung. hell, ZTE will love this shizzle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anoniemouse
On the other hand HTC may find people won't but thier newer handsets, but instead settle on the original desire.
Two fold avantage there cheaper to buy & easy to get root
They can solve that one by stopping production of the Desire...
No, I don't get it either - they don't offer warranty support for rooted phones, so it doesn't cost them anything if we mess our phones up modding them. But making the handsets less attractive can only cost sales.
The only motivation I've been able to think of is that it might serve their biggest customers, i.e. the networks, if they make it harder to remove their crapware or add features the networks don't want (of course you can debrand a Desire without rooting, but I guess if you can sell a story to the execs that would serve the purpose).
But yeah, a handset's dev community is more important to me than the brand, so let's see how long it takes them to realise their mistake...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hadron
They can solve that one by stopping production of the Desire...
No, I don't get it either - they don't offer warranty support for rooted phones, so it doesn't cost them anything if we mess our phones up modding them. But making the handsets less attractive can only cost sales.
The only motivation I've been able to think of is that it might serve their biggest customers, i.e. the networks, if they make it harder to remove their crapware or add features the networks don't want (of course you can debrand a Desire without rooting, but I guess if you can sell a story to the execs that would serve the purpose).
But yeah, a handset's dev community is more important to me than the brand, so let's see how long it takes them to realise their mistake...
i actually think you might be on to something there. maybe it is to keep branding. i know people are pushing manufacturers to put an end to rooting/bootloader cracking because its easier to rip apps
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You are all right... They want to stop you from doing it but they don't realise that for so many people thats what keeps the phone interesting and makes it good!! As said before rooting is what made them popular and they are making a mistake with this, all the other brands are going to do better now i think and have the better dev communities. Lets just hope HTC realise third mistake soon and do something about it because HTC devices to me are much less attractive now whereas the Desire was and still is perfect for me. Its clear everyone agrees with me, they need to realise their mistake and do something about it before too many people switch to other brands.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hadron
I believe that the SE bootloader unlocking is only supposed to be on unbranded hansets (fine by me, as that's the only sort I buy).
Correct. Unbranded sim-free only.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rastaman-FB
i actually think you might be on to something there. maybe it is to keep branding. i know people are pushing manufacturers to put an end to rooting/bootloader cracking because its easier to rip apps
But surely HTC of all know that Android and HTC themselves are now popular enough for them to set the rules. Apple insist on networks not being allowed to clog up the iPhone with all their network rubbish. It is understandable why the networks give in to this even though they don't want to - because the iPhone is key to their success. They can't afford to lose it.
But things are different now and Android is now huge too. The likes of O2 and Vodafone probably couldn't afford to lose HTC devices either. In other words, I don't know what HTC have to lose. They are the ones in control really.
And if they must lock them, do a Sony Ericsson. Most rooters tend to buy unlocked anyway I would say, and the networks are pretty much all useless at sending out updates anyway. They could at least unlock the sim free devices surely?
I really don't get it. HTC have never been that big a company. They didn't really become huge with windows phones. Then Android came along, and in the short 2 year period they supported the platform, they achieved something incredible. As announced last month... "HTC is the world's third most valuable smartphone maker". Their best selling phone ever, the desire, was a success for many reasons, one of which is undoubtedly the strong dev community and option to root.
They achieve all that, and then they do a complete U-turn. This, at a time when competition amongst Android devices is at an all time high?
PS: You are in with HTC... can't you give them a little nudge
Device(s): HTC Desire (GalnetMIUI ICS, S-OFF), HTC Sensation, Orange San Francisco (CM7), Nexus S (ICS 4.0.3),
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I was so looking forward to the HTC Sensation as my new phone this summer. Needless to say I'm a bit gutted that HTC seem to be taking a big step backwards by locking things up. While the custom ROM users are fairly small in numbers compared to the overall userbase of a handset, the rooting community tends to have a loud voice and a phone that's root-friendly gets a lot of attention on tech websites and message boards. Non-root users see the phone more as a result of the root community, which ultimately increases brand awareness and makes it popular.
HTC were the leaders last year and the original Desire benefited from an active ROM developer community. Samsung seem to have filled the gap by not making rooting too hard, and backing it up with some really good hardware. Sony Ericsson, in my opinion, looks like it could be on it's way up after the mistakes made with updating the X10, and I'm excited to see how their root-friendly attitude will be realised.
So for me, my summer phone will be either a Samsung GSII or an Xperia Arc. I so wanted HTC to carry on where the Desire left off......
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Last edited by Eris Ed; May 4th, 2011 at 03:11 PM.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by williamj1
Correct. Unbranded sim-free only.
But surely HTC of all know that Android and HTC themselves are now popular enough for them to set the rules. Apple insist on networks not being allowed to clog up the iPhone with all their network rubbish. It is understandable why the networks give in to this even though they don't want to - because the iPhone is key to their success. They can't afford to lose it.
But things are different now and Android is now huge too. The likes of O2 and Vodafone probably couldn't afford to lose HTC devices either. In other words, I don't know what HTC have to lose. They are the ones in control really.
And if they must lock them, do a Sony Ericsson. Most rooters tend to buy unlocked anyway I would say, and the networks are pretty much all useless at sending out updates anyway. They could at least unlock the sim free devices surely?
I really don't get it. HTC have never been that big a company. They didn't really become huge with windows phones. Then Android came along, and in the short 2 year period they supported the platform, they achieved something incredible. As announced last month... "HTC is the world's third most valuable smartphone maker". Their best selling phone ever, the desire, was a success for many reasons, one of which is undoubtedly the strong dev community and option to root.
They achieve all that, and then they do a complete U-turn. This, at a time when competition amongst Android devices is at an all time high?
PS: You are in with HTC... can't you give them a little nudge
while i agree with some of your points i dont agree with others
HTC was huge, who do you think made the original XDA?
before blackberry came along and along time afterwards it was a coporate signature to own one as PDA's were massively important to the financial industry.
HTC fronted that with many of their devices and opened the doors to touch screen technology in a way that other manufacturers were not able to do successfully.
HTC had a different approach to apple and always allowed branding. HTC have multiple products which aim and target many groups where as apple has one.
its in HTC's interest to listen to the carriers as essentially that carrier might bid on a different handset to go on their portfolio.
carriers do not put all devices on portfolio. when iphone was o2 exclusive did you see any htc devices on their network? no, even though HTC brought the XDA which was o2's flagship pda in 2001
basically its a catch 22 as they cannot really win. they will lose customers imo for locking it down too tight and therefore sales on newer devices will force carriers to put other manufacturers devices on portfolio and htc will lose out.
but then if they dont then carriers will threaten to not use them and put other devices on portfolio again.
this is only my opinion but i cant afford to buy outright so my phones are branded. ill go where i can root, end of story. i like to have my phone how I want it and not how HTC or my carrier wants it
PS im not in with HTC as i wouldnt be writing this. im not in with anything to do with them, its all personal opinion from my part and i dont want any connection with them
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rastaman-FB
this is only my opinion but i cant afford to buy outright so my phones are branded. ill go where i can root, end of story. i like to have my phone how I want it and not how HTC or my carrier wants it
Agreed. I've made the decision to save and get a SIM free phone next time, but rooting is important to me and will be a major factor in which handset I choose.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rastaman-FB
basically its a catch 22 as they cannot really win. they will lose customers imo for locking it down too tight and therefore sales on newer devices will force carriers to put other manufacturers devices on portfolio and htc will lose out.
but then if they dont then carriers will threaten to not use them and put other devices on portfolio again.
But surely that isn't the case anymore? If you look at O2's Android portfolio, the big contenders are HTC, Samsung and Sony Ericsson. Samsung remain unlockable. Sony Ericsson are beginning to do so. All the other devices are doing it, so what is left for O2 to switch to instead of HTC?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rastaman-FB
this is only my opinion but i cant afford to buy outright so my phones are branded. ill go where i can root, end of story. i like to have my phone how I want it and not how HTC or my carrier wants it
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LG, moto, ZTE to name a few.
imo if HTC offer more flexibility to the carriers then they are more likely to get more devices on a carriers portfolio
it makes business sense but in android i think its dangerous.
HTC are very good at making comebacks though, they will learn from it and become best once again i believe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rastaman-FB
LG, moto, ZTE to name a few.
imo if HTC offer more flexibility to the carriers then they are more likely to get more devices on a carriers portfolio
it makes business sense but in android i think its dangerous.
HTC are very good at making comebacks though, they will learn from it and become best once again i believe
True, but frustrating for the loyal users. I think many of us on here were expecting the Desire S to be our likely successor. When it turned out to be a big let down, I think we all turned to the Sensation for hope. But now, it looks like the GS2 may take over. Once we switch, they may struggle to get us all back
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Reading what you have all written I really wish HTC continued on the success of the Desire but its true they are going downhill and its a shame because if they were just as rootable as the others are i would choose HTC hands down cos i love HTC phones. I also always buy unbranded but what they are doing is very disappointing as i am one of the many people who think rooting and the strong dev community is incredibly important. I'm not sure any phone will ever get the truly amazing dev community the Desire has... But lets hope so and lets hope its a HTC and they realise what we all think and change their ways pretty soon. Buy whatever happens I am very happy with my Desire for now and if i could have say a Desire S I wouldnt, I know they are better but rooting means alot to me and to all of you by the looks of things
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Quote:
Originally Posted by williamj1
Once we switch, they may struggle to get us all back
Over the last few weeks I've seen that people are far more willing to switch than I thought - die-hard Desire fans switching to samsung, for example. If HTC come up with something attractive in the future I see no reason why people wont go back.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by williamj1
True, but frustrating for the loyal users. I think many of us on here were expecting the Desire S to be our likely successor. When it turned out to be a big let down, I think we all turned to the Sensation for hope. But now, it looks like the GS2 may take over. Once we switch, they may struggle to get us all back
I strongly agree! you are dead right. HTC set a new standard with smartphones and got all of us loving HTC devices but now they are stopping us from rooting which is a disappointing and also the new phones announced at MWC the Desire S and Incredible S were very disappointing spec in comparison to all the newer phones out these days such as the SGSII, They are making more than 1 bad move and i think they need to sort it because as you said they are gonna loose all of us and it may be difficult to get us back.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eris Ed
Over the last few weeks I've seen that people are far more willing to switch than I thought - die-hard Desire fans switching to samsung, for example. If HTC come up with something attractive in the future I see no reason why people wont go back.
im sure that is the case but people may be wary now from this
HTC Desire is still wonderful device because of the strong dev community. I don't have to worry about the latest OS software with it (I've got Android v2.3.4 on it next to Nexus S! ).
My next phone search follows the root and custom ROMs. Probably Samsung SGS2 will be the winner.
Curiously, SE Arc still has no proper custom ROMs even though it is rooted...
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I agree Usta - Rooting and ROMs is HUGE for me I can't believe i ever lived with my Desire unrooted lol. But anyhow i have a year till I can upgrade so thats a perfect oppertunity to let HTC put things right and see what happens in the world of phones. Amd as you said the Desire is still great and I love it so im happpy for now :P
But yeah, a handset's dev community is more important to me than the brand,
I've said it time and time again...this is the ONLY reason NOKIA is still doing well with their older symbian phones...I mean software comparison to android or even iOS, symbian is far FAR behind...
but in terms of the community and what they do...cooking firmwares and all the nifty lil things they did...well hell..I think its one of the biggest..
I think its one of the reasons Nokia will STILL producing new firmwares for the 5800...because the community were cooking some of the C6 ones an porting them over...so nokia started to do their own...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deanshep85
I've said it time and time again...this is the ONLY reason NOKIA is still doing well with their older symbian phones...I mean software comparison to android or even iOS, symbian is far FAR behind...
but in terms of the community and what they do...cooking firmwares and all the nifty lil things they did...well hell..I think its one of the biggest..
I think its one of the reasons Nokia will STILL producing new firmwares for the 5800...because the community were cooking some of the C6 ones an porting them over...so nokia started to do their own...
never ceased to amaze me over there
nokia is failing harder than you think and recently axing thousands of jobs in the uk because of poor sales
Tbh the only reason I rooted in the first place was to overcome the Desire's shortcomings. Now the new devices don't have these issues I won't be bothered about it so I'd happily buy a Sensation even if it couldn't be rooted. Wouldn't buy a DS or IS, though - don't like the designs
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yeah to be honest i did root to fix the internal memory issue but i do love flashing ROMs, overlocking, using custom kernels and not having HTC Sense anymore is great :P
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rastaman-FB
this is only my opinion but i cant afford to buy outright so my phones are branded. ill go where i can root, end of story. i like to have my phone how I want it and not how HTC or my carrier wants it
That's not exactly true. If you do a contract / upgrade through the CarphoneWarehouse then you'll get an unbranded phone / sim-free phone.
I actually dodged a bullet when I got my Desire because I was going to get it direct from O2 initially. O2 wanted £80 for the handset on my chosen tarrif, whereas at the CarphoneWarehouse it was free....so I got it from them. I wasn't aware of the differences between branded / un-branded at the time. I thought it was all just down to which sim you could use.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BurnCK
That's not exactly true. If you do a contract / upgrade through the CarphoneWarehouse then you'll get an unbranded phone / sim-free phone.
I actually dodged a bullet when I got my Desire because I was going to get it direct from O2 initially. O2 wanted £80 for the handset on my chosen tarrif, whereas at the CarphoneWarehouse it was free....so I got it from them. I wasn't aware of the differences between branded / un-branded at the time. I thought it was all just down to which sim you could use.
i get better deals from o2 than i do from CPW so its not really an option
Has anyone on this forum actually contacted HTC regarding this?
Maybe if several people sent their technical team a link to this thread, they would consider changing it... Probably a shot in the dark, but could be worth it - otherwise we're all just wishing for something and discussing it here, rather than letting HTC know!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJjay
Has anyone on this forum actually contacted HTC regarding this?
Maybe if several people sent their technical team a link to this thread, they would consider changing it... Probably a shot in the dark, but could be worth it - otherwise we're all just wishing for something and discussing it here, rather than letting HTC know!
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One scenario that would satisfy both parties is that after a few months of lock down with their singed Hboot etc, allowing the operators to suck their cherries, HTC might oooops completely by accident release the hack to the dev community allowing them to do the business. That is if they haveney cracked it by then themselves.
The HTC Desire is one of the latest high end phone by HTC bringing a huge 3.7" inch high quality AMOLED screen for crystal clear viewing, powered by a 1 GHz Qualcomm Snapdragon processor and runs on, you guessed it, Android.
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Will the Incredible S & Desire S ever be rooted?
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