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Old June 10th, 2010, 03:25 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Once, twice, three times a lady! ... Wiped

I've read more times than I can count about some of you wiping the data partition or system partition "more than once". Are you guys paranoid, nuts, or has your OCD reached new levels??? You guys act as if it's like erasing a chalkboard, whereas the first time doesn't get all of the chalk off of the board. Or using an eraser on paper. When you wipe, it's GONE!!! I mean, it's your world and you can do whatever you want. But some of y'all preach it like it's the gospel truth ... and sorry, I'm just not buying it.

Maybe CwM and SPR should read: "Kinda wipe data". Yea ... that's the ticket!

Just sayin'...

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Old June 10th, 2010, 03:29 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I have never, ever ever wiped more than once.
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Old June 10th, 2010, 03:30 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Well, except for that one time, in band camp....
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Old June 10th, 2010, 03:31 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I have never, ever ever wiped more than once.
Are we still talking about your DROID?
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Old June 10th, 2010, 03:32 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Yes, on my DROID.

Elsewhere I wipe as the situation calls for....tyvm.

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Old June 10th, 2010, 03:33 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Ive always wiped data.... multiple times

The way i see it, it is like reformating the data partition. On a computer if you do a crappy wipe you will have remainders of files and data still on the drive, even if it isnt a complete file, it is still there..

When you vacuum the floor do you only do one pass over dirty areas?
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Old June 10th, 2010, 03:33 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Wipe once, disinfect later!
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Old June 10th, 2010, 03:34 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Wiping is overrated.
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Old June 10th, 2010, 03:39 PM   #9 (permalink)
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I use a pinecone, so once is PLENTY.
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Old June 10th, 2010, 03:40 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Ive always wiped data.... multiple times

The way i see it, it is like reformating the data partition. On a computer if you do a crappy wipe you will have remainders of files and data still on the drive, even if it isnt a complete file, it is still there..

When you vacuum the floor do you only do one pass over dirty areas?
Equating the removal of directory information of files on magnetic media to vacuuming your floor is like trying to equate rolling down a hill on gravity power to breaking the speed of sound with a MiG 29....sorry, not buying that analogy at all.

Even formatting leaves those same file parts on your drive. Try performing a full format of your SDCard on your system and see how long it takes, as opposed to a 'quick' format, which simply removes the FAT headers that point to each of the files on your card.

Same holds true of your Memory. A full format will take a lot longer than a quick format, and regardless of which one you do, you aren't getting any more of a benefit (from performing it multiple times). If our recovery systems perform a full format on the partitions they are wiping, then it gets fully wiped the first time - this isn't mechanical storage, where if you bump your phone it skips over a certain section of the medium. In contrast, if it is performing a quick format, then, again, all it is doing is wiping that FAT - and wiping it 1 time or 100 times will never remove any more information off the medium, b/c those file fragments will still be there after 100 wipes. Or 1000. Or 1 million.

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Wipe once, disinfect later!
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Wiping is overrated.
Wiping more than once is over-rated.
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Old June 10th, 2010, 03:50 PM   #11 (permalink)
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When you vacuum the floor do you only do one pass over dirty areas?
That's EXACTLY like the chalkboard analogy I used. Free yourself from this OCD behavior!!! At least have enough pride not to mention it in public.
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Old June 10th, 2010, 03:51 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I use a pinecone, so once is PLENTY.
So what prison did you serve your sentence?
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Old June 10th, 2010, 03:59 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I think it's when Pete came out w/ BBeast v1.0. And CM came out w/ 5.0.7, that wiping once just wasn't taking. Most of us had trouble installing these ROMs unless we wiped 3x. I have no idea why, I don't know the particulars like you guys, but I know I couldn't get my ROM to run right (if at all), if I didn't. It was only for like those ROMs, though.
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Old June 10th, 2010, 04:30 PM   #14 (permalink)
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so what prison did you serve your sentence?
brew os
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Old June 10th, 2010, 04:37 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I think it's when Pete came out w/ BBeast v1.0. And CM came out w/ 5.0.7, that wiping once just wasn't taking. Most of us had trouble installing these ROMs unless we wiped 3x. I have no idea why, I don't know the particulars like you guys, but I know I couldn't get my ROM to run right (if at all), if I didn't. It was only for like those ROMs, though.

I remember that as well... Whenever you wipe by formatting (quick) you tend to leave fragments behind. The fragments left behind are constantly changed and not the same from one wipe to another. So by wiping multiple times you are removing more fragments each time.
Thats why when we use the format option in windows we have the options for Quick or Normal.... as well as other third party formatting applications have options for multiple passes, for both "hard disks" and "flash drives"... the government has a minimum number of passes required before it is considered wiped... I could be wrong but i believe that applies to both hard and flash disks.

as for me, ill always wipe more then 1 time...and im proud to admit it.
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Old June 10th, 2010, 04:45 PM   #16 (permalink)
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I've read more times than I can count about some of you wiping the data partition or system partition "more than once". Are you guys paranoid, nuts, or has your OCD reached new levels??? You guys act as if it's like erasing a chalkboard, whereas the first time doesn't get all of the chalk off of the board. Or using an eraser on paper. When you wipe, it's GONE!!! I mean, it's your world and you can do whatever you want. But some of y'all preach it like it's the gospel truth ... and sorry, I'm just not buying it.

Maybe CwM and SPR should read: "Kinda wipe data". Yea ... that's the ticket!

Just sayin'...
That's what I've been saying ever since I got into this... Buuuuut, I think I have been proved wrong. I had problems flashing anything! Everytime I tried to flash it would force me into a boot loop. Even with wiping everything I would get stuck in boot loop, so I tried wiping everything multiple times, and it finally worked.

Maaaaaybe its like when you wipe, but you get some dingle berries left over.
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Old June 10th, 2010, 05:08 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I remember that as well... Whenever you wipe by formatting (quick) you tend to leave fragments behind. The fragments left behind are constantly changed and not the same from one wipe to another. So by wiping multiple times you are removing more fragments each time.
Thats why when we use the format option in windows we have the options for Quick or Normal.... as well as other third party formatting applications have options for multiple passes, for both "hard disks" and "flash drives"... the government has a minimum number of passes required before it is considered wiped... I could be wrong but i believe that applies to both hard and flash disks.

as for me, ill always wipe more then 1 time...and im proud to admit it.
A quick format and a regular format both do the exact same thing in a data erasure sense. The only difference is that a regular format also checks the disk for errors, whereas in a quick format this step is bypassed. Neither actually 'erase' any data in like what you would think of for a chalkboard, vacuuming, or any of that other nonsense (lol....not comparable to rolling down hills either)

Essentially what it does is tells the system/index file/whatever that all of the disk/card/stick/whatever is available for writing. The data isn't truly gone until new data is written overtop of it, and even then, can sometimes be recovered by skilled data forensics specialists (can you say child porn cases?). I can't really think of a good analogy that would fit...When you wipe you are eliminating the index or table of contents essentially. If you rip it out once, ripping it out again isn't going to change the fact that there is still a whole novel in the book...

I would say wiping more than once is pointless, but hey, i've seen stranger things.

Hope this helps some... (but probably doesnt)
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Old June 10th, 2010, 05:32 PM   #18 (permalink)
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i think the reason developers were saying wipe twice or 3 times is because people were simply not following instructions. if the rom called for a wipe people would disregard it and think "well maybe this time it will be ok" so instead the developer put wipe 3 times so maybe people would take the hint that it was important to do a data wipe.

just a thought.
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Old June 10th, 2010, 05:42 PM   #19 (permalink)
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i think the reason developers were saying wipe twice or 3 times is because people were simply not following instructions. if the rom called for a wipe people would disregard it and think "well maybe this time it will be ok" so instead the developer put wipe 3 times so maybe people would take the hint that it was important to do a data wipe.

just a thought.

That would make sense. I often tell my users to reboot their computers 3 times because I know if I just ask them if they rebooted the answer is ALWAYS yes....
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Old June 10th, 2010, 08:39 PM   #20 (permalink)
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A quick format and a regular format both do the exact same thing in a data erasure sense. The only difference is that a regular format also checks the disk for errors, whereas in a quick format this step is bypassed. Neither actually 'erase' any data in like what you would think of for a chalkboard, vacuuming, or any of that other nonsense (lol....not comparable to rolling down hills either)

Essentially what it does is tells the system/index file/whatever that all of the disk/card/stick/whatever is available for writing. The data isn't truly gone until new data is written overtop of it, and even then, can sometimes be recovered by skilled data forensics specialists (can you say child porn cases?). I can't really think of a good analogy that would fit...When you wipe you are eliminating the index or table of contents essentially. If you rip it out once, ripping it out again isn't going to change the fact that there is still a whole novel in the book...

I would say wiping more than once is pointless, but hey, i've seen stranger things.

Hope this helps some... (but probably doesnt)
That is essentially what I was trying to say earlier, but yours is so much more eloquent.
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Old June 10th, 2010, 09:27 PM   #21 (permalink)
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I am relieved, and delighted, at the amount of agreeable posters. Thanks guys. For a minute there, I was like ... WTFork?!
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Old June 10th, 2010, 09:45 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackberrywidow View Post
A quick format and a regular format both do the exact same thing in a data erasure sense. The only difference is that a regular format also checks the disk for errors, whereas in a quick format this step is bypassed. Neither actually 'erase' any data in like what you would think of for a chalkboard, vacuuming, or any of that other nonsense (lol....not comparable to rolling down hills either)

Essentially what it does is tells the system/index file/whatever that all of the disk/card/stick/whatever is available for writing. The data isn't truly gone until new data is written overtop of it, and even then, can sometimes be recovered by skilled data forensics specialists (can you say child porn cases?). I can't really think of a good analogy that would fit...When you wipe you are eliminating the index or table of contents essentially. If you rip it out once, ripping it out again isn't going to change the fact that there is still a whole novel in the book...

I would say wiping more than once is pointless, but hey, i've seen stranger things.

Hope this helps some... (but probably doesnt)
Another simple analogy...formatting is like erasing the addresses of your relatives in your address book - that won't get rid of the relatives associated w/the entries, no matter how hard you erase. (If only it was that easy...)
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Old June 10th, 2010, 09:59 PM   #23 (permalink)
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for wiping magnetic media--i sort of understand if you have sensitive data.

no one has ever, to my knowledge, successfully recovered a complete hard drive that has been turned to zeros.

now, if you're really paranoid, you can have it turn to random (or a pattern of) zeros and ones. 7 passes worth.
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Old June 10th, 2010, 11:58 PM   #24 (permalink)
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imagine sweeping a floor
you do one sweep across, get most of the stuff... oh wait there's still a few pieces of lint.
do a second sweep ur good it's perfectly clean.

hell man, the only reason I do 2 wipes is because sometimes the ROM developers specifically say we should do at least 2 wipes. I figure they know better than me, and even if it's unnecessary, it's not like I'm going to regret spending the time to do the second wipe for the rest of my life or anything o.O
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Old June 11th, 2010, 12:08 AM   #25 (permalink)
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I'm one of the advocates of wiping multiple times. Now, do I have some sort of scientific proof that it is beneficial to do so??? No I don't.

However, If I'm wrong and formatting data, cache along with formatting the boot, system, data, and cache partitions multiple times doesn't provide any benefits what so ever...what do you lose? 45-50 seconds maybe......it certainly isn't going to hurt anything

I'm just trying to save myself and others from those "stupid little glitches" we have all run across. Maybe just formatting data is enough...maybe formatting all the partitions even once is not necessary...

I leave the choice to every person who is actually hitting the buttons
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Old June 11th, 2010, 12:55 AM   #26 (permalink)
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I would think that you wouldn't need to wipe more than once. But I know when the ROMs came out that devs told us to wipe 3 times, you had to wipe 3x to get it to work. I know b/c that information was not readily available when I first flashed. Didn't work just wiping once. Was told to do it 3x and success.

Also, it brings to mind something like Metamorph. Often, I've had to redo an installation b/c it didn't do everything the first time.

And there's Titanium Backup, which for me almost never restores everything on the first shot.

Regardless, this sounds like a potential geek war in the making, so I'm def sticking around just in case. lol
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Old June 11th, 2010, 02:20 AM   #27 (permalink)
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I do it three times.
I have read it several places - I also agree that a wipe is a wipe, but with the issues I sometimes have with my phone and ROMming, I do it as a self assurance. Just makes me feel better, IDK, LOL.
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Old June 11th, 2010, 07:45 AM   #28 (permalink)
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I do it as a self assurance. Just makes me feel better, IDK, LOL.
OCD. Awesome!

Hey! I have it too. Just not when it comes to formating partitions.
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Old June 11th, 2010, 09:52 AM   #29 (permalink)
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I do it three times.
I have read it several places - I also agree that a wipe is a wipe, but with the issues I sometimes have with my phone and ROMming, I do it as a self assurance. Just makes me feel better, IDK, LOL.
Nick
I do the same thing, Nick. There are enough anecdotal reports of chronic problems being solved by formatting multiple times before installing a ROM, that I consider the additional peace of mind well worth it. And Clockwork makes formatting all the partitions so easy, it only take a few seconds to accomplish each wipe. If that makes me OCD or even silly, so be it! I never seem to experience all the problems that others, who didn't format multiple times, report when they switch ROMs.
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Old June 11th, 2010, 01:43 PM   #30 (permalink)
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I do the same thing, Nick. There are enough anecdotal reports of chronic problems being solved by formatting multiple times before installing a ROM, that I consider the additional peace of mind well worth it. And Clockwork makes formatting all the partitions so easy, it only take a few seconds to accomplish each wipe. If that makes me OCD or even silly, so be it! I never seem to experience all the problems that others, who didn't format multiple times, report when they switch ROMs.
Yup, and as someone had mentioned, developers were encouraging multiple wipes.

After going through this post last night, I had to change ROMs.
I was going to do a single wipe - but couldn't do it.
My fingers just did it on their own.
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Old June 11th, 2010, 01:57 PM   #31 (permalink)
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i don't believe formatting multiple times does anything. i have never formatted more than once and never had problems. but i always format for any ROM upgrade, no matter how small or how much it is said you can apply it over the old one. i think that's why things usually go smoothly for me. with Ti backup, complete wipes are no big deal, so might as well do it every time.
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Old June 11th, 2010, 02:00 PM   #32 (permalink)
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I only ever format each partition once. More power to the people who want to do it more but from my experience its completely unnecessary
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Old June 11th, 2010, 02:08 PM   #33 (permalink)
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one pass, call it a day.
I have more important things to focus my OCD on, like getting everyone to call it CDO, alphabetical order, as it should be!!!
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Old June 11th, 2010, 02:50 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Having recently recovered from a wiped SD Card, I can say that wiping multiple times increases the likelyhood you'll go down an extra line and then start yelling, "NO!, NO!, NO!...SHI^!"
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Old June 11th, 2010, 03:24 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Having recently recovered from a wiped SD Card, I can say that wiping multiple times increases the likelyhood you'll go down an extra line and then start yelling, "NO!, NO!, NO!...SHI^!"
.....

I just started a backup of my card because of your post...
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Old June 11th, 2010, 03:32 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Default Re: Once, twice, three times a lady! ... Wiped

I have always only done one wipe, even when Pete and cyan said multible wipes were required, and I never had any trouble with installing roms.
So unless u just like the extra work, only wipe once.

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Old June 11th, 2010, 05:18 PM   #37 (permalink)
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I never seem to experience all the problems that others, who didn't format multiple times, report when they switch ROMs.
You've had more issues than I have had. So there!
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Old June 11th, 2010, 05:27 PM   #38 (permalink)
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You've had more issues than I have had. So there!
Ummmmmmmmmm, I don't see how that can be true, since I haven't had ANY problems since I started multiple-wiping all my partitions. In fact, I think you've had a lot more ROM issues than I recently.
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Old June 11th, 2010, 05:53 PM   #39 (permalink)
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one pass, call it a day.
I have more important things to focus my OCD on, like getting everyone to call it CDO, alphabetical order, as it should be!!!
I think that caters better to the dyslexic crowd.
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Old June 11th, 2010, 06:13 PM   #40 (permalink)
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Having recently recovered from a wiped SD Card, I can say that wiping multiple times increases the likelyhood you'll go down an extra line and then start yelling, "NO!, NO!, NO!...SHI^!"

Ha! that same thing happened to me....classic
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Old June 11th, 2010, 08:12 PM   #41 (permalink)
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Ummmmmmmmmm, I don't see how that can be true, since I haven't had ANY problems since I started multiple-wiping all partitions.
Add superstitious to the list.
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Old June 13th, 2010, 12:54 PM   #42 (permalink)
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Where's my geek war? Ok, let's add a lil fuel to the fire...

So why is it that the ROMs didn't take w/ one wipe but did w/ multiple? Huh? Huh?! HUH?!

Go get 'em, tigers.
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Old June 13th, 2010, 01:00 PM   #43 (permalink)
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Where's my geek war? Ok, let's add a lil fuel to the fire...

So why is it that the ROMs didn't take w/ one wipe but did w/ multiple? Huh? Huh?! HUH?!

Go get 'em, tigers.
Haha! I don't know that this is an issue that anyone will get that excited about.

Sorry you didn't get the fight you were looking for.
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Old June 13th, 2010, 01:03 PM   #44 (permalink)
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Default Re: Once, twice, three times a lady! ... Wiped

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Where's my geek war? Ok, let's add a lil fuel to the fire...

So why is it that the ROMs didn't take w/ one wipe but did w/ multiple? Huh? Huh?! HUH?!

Go get 'em, tigers.
They have always worked on mine. Ok, for instance I was browsing another site, and on the instructions it says wipe twice (kinda feel like I'm talking about something I do in the bathroom ) before installing the b.b. froyo that I know a lot of people here are running. Now, I know I only wiped once, and mine installed and is working just fine. I have NEVER wiped more than once, and I have never had any problems with installing or running other roms. It goes to make me wonder if they told everyone that just to see how many would actually do it. And yet, some people take it as a must do now.. I don't get it, it don't make sense to me.

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Old June 13th, 2010, 01:10 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Haha! I don't know that this is an issue that anyone will get that excited about.

Sorry you didn't get the fight you were looking for.
It's so much easier on Playstation. lol I figured gamers n techies would be of the same ilk. I guess it's like those math equations they used to make us do. "Some flims are flams. Some flams are flems. All flems are flums..."
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Old June 13th, 2010, 01:13 PM   #46 (permalink)
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Default Re: Once, twice, three times a lady! ... Wiped

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Quote:
Haha! I don't know that this is an issue that anyone will get that excited about.

Sorry you didn't get the fight you were looking for.
It's so much easier on Playstation. lol I figured gamers n techies would be of the same ilk. I guess it's like those math equations they used to make us do. "Some flims are flams. Some flams are flems. All flems are flums..."
Lol, I'm a gamer so I guess being argumentative comes natural to me..

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Old June 13th, 2010, 01:13 PM   #47 (permalink)
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Hey! I'm just trying to teach you a little something, whilst freeing you of your OCD and/or superstitious ways. Just leading the horse to water ... so to speak.

Anyone trying to even pose an argument based on wiping a partition more than once is just being obstinate. Meanwhile you have no technical or factual argument to stand upon. When's the last time you deleted a file from your PC and the old file was still kinda there?
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Old June 13th, 2010, 01:15 PM   #48 (permalink)
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Default Re: Once, twice, three times a lady! ... Wiped

Quote:
Hey! I'm just trying to teach you a little something, whilst freeing you of your OCD and/or superstitious ways. Just leading the horse to water ... so to speak.

Anyone trying to even pose an argument based on wiping a partition more than once is just being obstinate. Meanwhile you have no technical or factual argument to stand upon. When's the last time you deleted a file from your PC and the old file was still kinda there?
Good point.
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Old June 13th, 2010, 01:23 PM   #49 (permalink)
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Hey! I'm just trying to teach you a little something, whilst freeing you of your OCD and/or superstitious ways. Just leading the horse to water ... so to speak.

Anyone trying to even pose an argument based on wiping a partition more than once is just being obstinate. Meanwhile you have no technical or factual argument to stand upon. When's the last time you deleted a file from your PC and the old file was still kinda there?
I really don't know anything about tech stuff, but don't we have to defrag computers b/c of this?

I was only mostly joking about the geek war.
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Old June 13th, 2010, 02:18 PM   #50 (permalink)
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Hey! I'm just trying to teach you a little something, whilst freeing you of your OCD and/or superstitious ways. Just leading the horse to water ... so to speak.

Anyone trying to even pose an argument based on wiping a partition more than once is just being obstinate. Meanwhile you have no technical or factual argument to stand upon. When's the last time you deleted a file from your PC and the old file was still kinda there?
It has NOTHING to do with being superstitious! Oh crap! It's past 3:00pm and I forgot to turn my left sock inside out! BRB!
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