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Yes, I force close apps/services with ____ 101 45.09%
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Old July 7th, 2010, 03:36 PM   #151 (permalink)
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I must admit that forums such as this need to be more publicly advertised I have been using android since the G1 and I have always used task killers and have constantly come across problems with task killer restarting apps I such as clock and weather as well as blanking out my screen for 2-3 seconds when using auto kill feature I have since unistalled ATK and can say I have had no problems since.

LOL yea I agree we should be back on the front page. We were put there for a day but was moved back. I have no control over it so maybe the mods will move it back.

Glad to hear your success with not using a task killer. It does lesson the stress of being worried all the time about apps running. It really does make a difference.

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Old July 14th, 2010, 05:18 PM   #152 (permalink)
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Because of all the back and forth whether to use a task killer or not, I decided to just see how the battery life would do, based on my normal usage.

I'm happy to say that I was able to get 32 hours (16 hours overnight standby, while I was sleeping) out of my phone with 14-15% left to spare. My 2 gmail accounts are set to automatic push and my other email address pushes popmail through every 4 hours. I have friendstream set to update every 4 hours.

For what I use my phone for, I'm extremely satisfied with the battery life, without having to use a task killer. I did however download an app called JuiceDefender (supposed to help battery life). I can't really tell if it's extending the life of my battery, but it hasn't seemed to hurt it, so I'm leaving it on there.
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Old August 1st, 2010, 04:25 PM   #153 (permalink)
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Thumbs down Random Apps showing in memory...

I'm 4 hours into my phone, and I noticed that there are random apps starting that I didn't even run. Amazon MP3, Yahoo, Ect. I installed yahoo but didn;t start it once.

There loads of them starting out of no where.

Why?
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Old August 1st, 2010, 04:35 PM   #154 (permalink)
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if you don't need them, use titanium backup to uninstall.
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Old August 1st, 2010, 04:56 PM   #155 (permalink)
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if you don't need them, use titanium backup to uninstall.
Titanium backup can't uninstall my Amazon mp3, so I'm not sure about that.
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Old August 1st, 2010, 05:29 PM   #156 (permalink)
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I forgot, you also need Root access for privileges to uninstall all software.

I was able to remove Amazon Mp3 with Titanium backup
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Old August 1st, 2010, 05:47 PM   #157 (permalink)
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I forgot, you also need Root access for privileges to uninstall all software.

I was able to remove Amazon Mp3 with Titanium backup
Beats me then, I'm rooted and on the 2.2 stock ROM. When I try to uninstall it via Titanium, it says it cannot find the .apk file.
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Old August 1st, 2010, 05:58 PM   #158 (permalink)
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Try re-installing Titanium. I had issues after my incremental upgrade, but they went away after I re-installed.
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Old August 1st, 2010, 06:14 PM   #159 (permalink)
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I actually just got to it uninstall. I removed the update and force closed it, and Titanium got rid of it. Thanks for the suggestion though!
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Old August 1st, 2010, 06:30 PM   #160 (permalink)
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Wait wait, if I install something, I can't remove it?

I'm not rooted, I don't know if they rooted 2.2 yet. I wanted to follow that picture guide, but scared too right now, don't know if the root will stick.
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Old August 1st, 2010, 06:31 PM   #161 (permalink)
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Sometimes Android will pre-cache applications. It happens. They don't consume processing cycles, you'll be fine.
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Old August 1st, 2010, 07:28 PM   #162 (permalink)
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stock apps. they are not running just sitting in a "ready" state. they are not using any precious resources.

go here to read up in how android handles memory....

http://androidforums.com/tips-tricks-evo-4g/85554-task-killers-must-read-new-android-users.html





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I'm 4 hours into my phone, and I noticed that there are random apps starting that I didn't even run. Amazon MP3, Yahoo, Ect. I installed yahoo but didn;t start it once.

There loads of them starting out of no where.

Why?
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Old August 1st, 2010, 07:31 PM   #163 (permalink)
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Yep.
Amazon MP3 has been started on my phone for about 24 hours now(last reboot) and has used 0sec of processor according to system panel.

So just because it is loaded, doesn't mean it is doing anything. I used ATK for a long time after I got my phone. But notice my phone is more stable now that I got rid of it.

I do use system panel (love the app), and can use it to kill a crappy app if one goes crazy.
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Old August 1st, 2010, 08:21 PM   #164 (permalink)
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Wait wait, if I install something, I can't remove it?

I'm not rooted, I don't know if they rooted 2.2 yet. I wanted to follow that picture guide, but scared too right now, don't know if the root will stick.
No, you just need root for removing pre-installed bloat.
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Old August 3rd, 2010, 02:40 PM   #165 (permalink)
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Default Anyone else notice the large amount of apps are preloaded w/ froyo? Cant kill most, any input?

Ive gone into the few apps I can actually turn off the load on startup option and they also continue to load. To name a few that are loading to see if you guys may be able to help me stop them from loading (These did not load w/ 2.1)

Amazon MP3
Easy tether (no option to stop at startup but it didn't start up in 2.1)
FM Radio (no option to stop at startup but it didn't start up in 2.1)
Footprint
Gmail (Disabled sync it but it still starts up)
Google Search
Google partner search
Hi AIM (Disabled startup but it still starts up)
HTC Messsage uploader
LED Desire Light (no way to disable on startup it appears but no idea why it'd start up all the sudden)
Market
Music
My uploads
Open sense plugin manager
Pandora
PDA net
Nascar
football crap
etc.
etc.
etc.

Dave
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Old August 3rd, 2010, 02:50 PM   #166 (permalink)
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98% of those started for me on 2.1.

It's not 2.2.

And wtf is Hi Aim? I've NEVER seen that on my phone.
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Old August 3rd, 2010, 03:25 PM   #167 (permalink)
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I had the same problem. If you see A lot of apps that your not using in the task list, you can do a long hold and choose to ignore and you'll never see it again in the task list till you actually use it.
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Old August 3rd, 2010, 07:49 PM   #168 (permalink)
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I still don't understand why Android insists on pre-caching apps that are never run. If it's going to pre-cache in order to maybe save startup time later, you'd think they would save a list of most commonly used apps on YOUR phone, and load those. Otherwise, the pre-caching is just totally useless. Just seems like a stupid way to do things, to decide for you what you might be wanting to run later, without looking at your individual usage patterns.
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Old August 3rd, 2010, 07:57 PM   #169 (permalink)
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I still don't understand why Android insists on pre-caching apps that are never run. If it's going to pre-cache in order to maybe save startup time later, you'd think they would save a list of most commonly used apps on YOUR phone, and load those. Otherwise, the pre-caching is just totally useless. Just seems like a stupid way to do things, to decide for you what you might be wanting to run later, without looking at your individual usage patterns.
Thank you. Android may handle apps that are in an inactive state just fine, but they are still consuming memory. Maybe not much, and it may not take much processor time to clear cached memory and fill it with active memory that other apps need, but it still seems stupid for these useless trash apps to run at all. If I never use them, they don't need to be there.

I'd much rather have commonly used applications being pre-cached. This is how OS's are supposed to work.
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Old August 3rd, 2010, 08:00 PM   #170 (permalink)
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98% of those started for me on 2.1.

It's not 2.2.

And wtf is Hi Aim? I've NEVER seen that on my phone.
Hi Aim's a 3rd party... Aim chat client.
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Old August 3rd, 2010, 08:07 PM   #171 (permalink)
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stock apps. they are not running just sitting in a "ready" state. they are not using any precious resources.

go here to read up in how android handles memory....

http://androidforums.com/tips-tricks-evo-4g/85554-task-killers-must-read-new-android-users.html
I wouldn't say that apps sitting there in memory not doing anything useful aren't using precious resources. RAM is precious

What if you have 40megs of RAM free, open up a music streaming app which caches to RAM and the OS has to decide what to kill? Sure it wouldn't (or shouldn't) be noticable to the user, but still, the fact that the OS had to kill something that shouldn't have been there in the first place wastes cycles... Sure it's an edge case, but it's still a valid one.

With today's phones, it might not be much of a problem, but that's not to say it can't happen. So is there an absolute answer for this whole memory management issue that keeps popping up? I'd say no. People asking why Android chooses to pre-cache useless apps in the first place is a good question.
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Old August 4th, 2010, 12:03 AM   #172 (permalink)
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I wouldn't say that apps sitting there in memory not doing anything useful aren't using precious resources. RAM is precious
Unused ram is wasted ram. It costs you exactly the same (battery-wise) for the ram to hold all zeros as it does a mixture of zeroes and ones.

The idea that ram should be 'free' is a throwback to the days of poor memory management, and very low memory systems where a single application would require the entirety of your system's ram simply to launch.

Quote:
What if you have 40megs of RAM free, open up a music streaming app which caches to RAM and the OS has to decide what to kill? Sure it wouldn't (or shouldn't) be noticable to the user, but still, the fact that the OS had to kill something that shouldn't have been there in the first place wastes cycles... Sure it's an edge case, but it's still a valid one.
The apps that are being cached are each only a few hundred kilobytes in size, you're just not going to notice Android doing it's thing in the background except when you go to use one of the pre-cached apps and it starts up instantly.
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Old August 4th, 2010, 01:34 PM   #173 (permalink)
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you're just not going to notice Android doing it's thing in the background except when you go to use one of the pre-cached apps and it starts up instantly.
Except that it caches apps I never go to use, so it's no help at all. Cache the apps I use, please.
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Old August 4th, 2010, 01:52 PM   #174 (permalink)
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RAM is precious
No, it isn't.

The reason some of y'all are panicing about "Apps I don't run" loading is most likely because these apps are getting notifications (Android Intents) from the system as the system boots, and are necessary for the proper functioning of that particular app- just because you might not use it, doesn't mean no-one does anywhere (and those who do probably want them to run properly )

But in the end, it has negligible impact on these handsets; it's just not worth worrying about.
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Old August 4th, 2010, 01:54 PM   #175 (permalink)
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Unused ram is wasted ram. It costs you exactly the same (battery-wise) for the ram to hold all zeros as it does a mixture of zeroes and ones.

The idea that ram should be 'free' is a throwback to the days of poor memory management, and very low memory systems where a single application would require the entirety of your system's ram simply to launch.



The apps that are being cached are each only a few hundred kilobytes in size, you're just not going to notice Android doing it's thing in the background except when you go to use one of the pre-cached apps and it starts up instantly.
Again, from personal experience on my EVO. When there are tons of apps loaded, the phone is less responsive. You can choose not to use a task killer, but I choose to based on my own experience with my phone.

Memory management itself isn't black and white. You can't just say it's good to have free RAM or not. Unused RAM is wasted RAM? I disagree, unused RAM is RAM that can be accessed quicker than deciding what to kill in order to free up memory. Free memory space has its uses.
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Old August 4th, 2010, 02:00 PM   #176 (permalink)
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No, it isn't.

The reason some of y'all are panicing about "Apps I don't run" loading is most likely because these apps are getting notifications (Android Intents) from the system as the system boots, and are necessary for the proper functioning of that particular app- just because you might not use it, doesn't mean no-one does anywhere (and those who do probably want them to run properly )

But in the end, it has negligible impact on these handsets; it's just not worth worrying about.
I've always used task killers for myself because in my experience, they help with responsiveness. I've never said people should use task killers just to free up memory for memory's sake. People should always know what they're killing. If people are using certain apps, then using a task killer to kill those apps is obviously counter intuitive.

If you don't know what tasks you should kill, then you shouldn't use a task killer. Anyway, this argument has been beaten to death by both sides. You have valid reasons for not using one as do I for using one.
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Old August 4th, 2010, 02:01 PM   #177 (permalink)
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unused RAM is RAM that can be accessed quicker than deciding what to kill in order to free up memory. Free memory space has its uses.
People have been working on Unix' memory-allocation schemes for decades.

You should be aware that trying to find free pages for new stuff is nearly the same operation as "deleting" old pages; if the LRU (least-recently used) counter indicates the page is free to use, and "stale", it gets reused.

You're gaining very little by "freeing up RAM".
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Old August 4th, 2010, 02:07 PM   #178 (permalink)
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I've never said people should use task killers just to free up memory for memory's sake.
The problem is there's others who keep wondering "where their RAM went"; this is who these threads are really for.
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Old August 4th, 2010, 02:19 PM   #179 (permalink)
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People have been working on Unix' memory-allocation schemes for decades.

You should be aware that trying to find free pages for new stuff is nearly the same operation as "deleting" old pages; if the LRU (least-recently used) counter indicates the page is free to use, and "stale", it gets reused.

You're gaining very little by "freeing up RAM".
As I mentioned previously, the user shouldn't see much of a difference if at all, for memory operations such as the ones you and I mentioned. I was merely responding to a post giving a black and white answer memory management.
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Old August 4th, 2010, 02:23 PM   #180 (permalink)
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The problem is there's others who keep wondering "where their RAM went"; this is who these threads are really for.
...and they're usually talking about ROM
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Old August 5th, 2010, 01:48 AM   #181 (permalink)
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I've had an Evo since it was released and after a few days I started using Advanced Task Killer.

It has never caused an issue for me (aside from me not realizing at first that the clock would be automatically killed, thus preventing me from using it as an alarm - but that's what ignore lists are for). It's improved my battery life significantly since I started using it.

I think that task killers wouldn't be necessary if Android had a Palm / WebOS style way of viewing the apps that are running any closing out what you don't want. I have to say, as someone who works in IT, it seems pretty stupid that they didn't put in a way to actually CLOSE applications...

I think, perhaps, the reason for the "task killers break your phone!" claims are that people use crappy software that's poorly written instead of taking the time to find the right software - we see this on Windows all the time.
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Old August 5th, 2010, 09:44 AM   #182 (permalink)
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Or maybe folks really just don't understand Android.
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Old August 5th, 2010, 11:59 AM   #183 (permalink)
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Umm....I have to say...none of these articles are convincing. TK have built in safety features that make sure you don't turn off anything important that will mess your phone off. At least with Advanced Task Killer.

So if you're only pretty much killing Apps and not processes then go wild.

There are apps that do just randomly start up in 2.2, but they usually aren't taking up any resources. Just preloaded I guess But there are some you may open and not close so using a task killer is great imo. So if you're going to kill that one you might as well kill up the other ones too.

+1 for Task Killer.
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Old August 5th, 2010, 12:11 PM   #184 (permalink)
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So if you're only pretty much killing Apps and not processes then go wild.
?! An app IS a process.
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Old August 5th, 2010, 05:07 PM   #185 (permalink)
 
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LOL, run a base station, and sniff the packets going into and out of the htc evo. A lot of the apps that are "just cached" actually use the radio and power to update themselves. Even when you never used them. The really funny thing is that the apps hide behind android processes to hide the fact they are using cpu, radio, and power. So please just run a base station and do a packet sniff.
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Old August 6th, 2010, 01:24 AM   #186 (permalink)
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The really funny thing is that the apps hide behind android processes to hide the fact they are using cpu, radio, and power.
?!
"Hide"? That's how the things work, ya know. Apps don't provide those services.
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Old August 6th, 2010, 11:13 AM   #187 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by kencrudup View Post
?! An app IS a process.
*sigh* I meant an actual process that's running for the OS's sake in which killing it would make the OS become unstable and requiring a soft reset.
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Old August 7th, 2010, 12:52 AM   #188 (permalink)
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admitedlly a lot of this stuff is over my head, but i have a few pretty simple questions. I too have all the preloaded apps that i don't us being listed as running, but i just occasionally go through and clear the memory for them (i never use them). My battery life is pretty bad, not gonna lie. I did most of the things in the battery thread. My question is: does downloading and installing apps hurt your battery even if they aren't running? I have tons of games i would love to have on my phone, but i'm obviously not going to be playing them all the time. Will just "having" these apps affect my battery life? performance?

also, i don't want to take the time to read those articles, but what are the risks of using a tka. (just list the problems) Thanks!
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Old August 7th, 2010, 10:29 AM   #189 (permalink)
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Anyone have positive or negative results with Startup Cleaner?
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Old August 7th, 2010, 10:32 AM   #190 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RiverOfIce View Post
LOL, run a base station, and sniff the packets going into and out of the htc evo. A lot of the apps that are "just cached" actually use the radio and power to update themselves. Even when you never used them. The really funny thing is that the apps hide behind android processes to hide the fact they are using cpu, radio, and power. So please just run a base station and do a packet sniff.
"base station" can you elaborate?
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Old August 7th, 2010, 06:05 PM   #191 (permalink)
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New to android, but have a question. I understand pre-caching. But doesn't it take up cpu cycles to find the programs that android wants to cache and load them into memory? I would think so. And cpu cycles take up battery, period!! So, if the phone is using cpu cycles to pre-cache programs that people don't use, then I think that is not good. Even if it's only .01% of the battery, thats battery power I want for something I choose to use on the phone. Even minute, every bit of battery counts.

I don't think its about just "having lots of free memory". I thinks its more about a phone and OS doing something useless that the operator doesn't want it to do.
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Old August 9th, 2010, 04:33 PM   #192 (permalink)
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Default Poll: Do you force close apps (with stock or market task killers)

I wanted to see a poll:

Who here actually force closes apps that they are not using in foreground or background?

If you do, what do you use? why?

I personally do not, otherwise i find myself checking periodically for apps that autostart, and since i rarely feel lag I dont feel a need to force close services/apps.
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Old August 9th, 2010, 04:37 PM   #193 (permalink)
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When I got my phone from the sprint store, they made me install ATK right then and there. I regularly checked the task list and killed stuff because the store claimed it would help with battery life.

Then I applied the "20 tips to save battery life" tips and did see decent battery life.

Then I stopped task killing and noticed my battery life didn't get worse. So I stopped using ATK.

Then I rooted. And got a kernel that could throttle CPU. I installed setCPU and saw amazing battery life savings when my phone was idle.

Battery life is no longer an issue to me. I also have settled down on a usage pattern for my phone and checking what apps are in memory is simply not something I bother with. Even if every single app is open, I won't care because it doesn't adversely affect my usage.
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Old August 10th, 2010, 02:13 PM   #194 (permalink)
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Default Will they have something like Advance Task Killer for the update?

I didn't have much battery problems before the update. After the update I didn't play with my phone much and didn't open a lot of apps, my battery wasn't that bad still. But yesterday, I played with my phone for a while, then I recharge it, but the battery still died quickly. I am guessing it's because there is no Advance Task Killer for the update, at least there isn't one that works as far as I know. So I am just wondering is it possible to have something like a task killer for this phone after the update eventually? Advance Task Killer is very efficient to have for this device.


Lol, I don't see where's the harm, or where it's been well documented. They told me when I uninstall the Task Killer my phone will be a lot faster, but I didn't notice anything, as a matter of fact it's still the same speed. If you don't want it, that's fine. But I think it will be very useful to me.
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Old August 10th, 2010, 02:22 PM   #195 (permalink)
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Really? Do we need another thread about task killers?

Bottom line is that you do not need any task killer for Android. It's been well documented that "task killers" do more harm than good. There are many ways to improve battery life on Evo - most have to do with using less widgets, disabling background updates, etc. Using task killer isn't one of them.
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Old August 10th, 2010, 03:21 PM   #196 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by killeronly001 View Post
Lol, I don't see where's the harm, or where it's been well documented.
Seriously? 192-post sticky right on top of this page not visible enough?

You may also want to read this: FAQ: Why You Shouldn’t Be Using a Task Killer with Android

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Originally Posted by killeronly001 View Post
They told me when I uninstall the Task Killer my phone will be a lot faster, but I didn't notice anything, as a matter of fact it's still the same speed.
Well, stop listening to "they", and start reading up on this topic and educating yourself, as opposed to starting new threads.
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Old August 11th, 2010, 09:21 AM   #197 (permalink)
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My Evo has been acting up since I upgraded to the Andriod 2.2. My task killer stopped working so I just now uninstalled it I'm going to see if my battery life last longer.

also has anybody been getting a "Sorry" message saying that the process com.htc.bg has stopped unexpectedly. Please Try again?
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Old August 11th, 2010, 08:05 PM   #198 (permalink)
 
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A software engineer from Android said NOT TO USE A TASK KILLER. Any phone running anything below Android 2.0 needs a task killer. You can read the articles for yourselves.

Android Developers Blog: Multitasking the Android Way

Google and Cyanogen comments imply task killer/manager apps are pointless | andrew | Androinica

FAQ: Why You Shouldn’t Be Using a Task Killer with Android Geek For Me – Sprint Evo 4g & CDMA Hero
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Old August 11th, 2010, 08:08 PM   #199 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slick1020 View Post
A software engineer said NOT TO USE A TASK KILLER.
Several of us have!
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Old August 11th, 2010, 08:09 PM   #200 (permalink)
 
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LOL, if people knew what they were doing they could just force stop an app opposed to using a task killer. This tells me a vast majority of people using a task killer do not understand Android and people do not know what they are doing.
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