zuben el genub

Rooted the phone - maps, latitude are frozen. GPS off. (Simply don't use it.) Only location is by cell tower.
Will Google try to make me restore the junk?

tylerdurden123

Maybe because Apple's products work like new for 10+ years, when Windows and Android will be trash in a year or two. And because Steve Jobs says they don't track you and never will. I do know he is now dead, but I trust Apple products over all others because they don't break, or get hacked. When I bought my Android phone, I wasn't expecting this, that is all. And I think Verizon is going to have a hail storm on their hands because anyone with an android phone is having these changes forced upon them.

Oh and not to mention the apps that Apple exceeds Android with

Last edited by Slug; January 30th, 2012 at 02:52 PM.

lunatic59

I think you are sadly mistaken. Apple tracks as much if not more user data than Google.

Apple's iPhones and Google's Androids Send Cellphone Location - WSJ.com

BBC News - iPhone tracks users' movements

South Koreans sue Apple over iPhone user data - Philly.com

Germany chimes in on Apple iPhone user data

Other than games, there are very few Apple apps that don't have Android versions or equivalents. The converse is also true.


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tylerdurden123

Try creating music on an Android. Being a music producer, Apple's apps far exceed any of Android's... You have Fruity Loops, a Moog Synthesizer, etc. etc.

Kicksilver

I don't.

So makes no difference to me.

Android is totally wireless, that's the advantage.

Last edited by Kicksilver; January 30th, 2012 at 12:14 PM.

lunatic59

Sorry, but you cannot continually make gross over generalizations without being called on it. While there are many iOS apps that have more features or slicker UI than their Android counterparts, the converse is also true. It is rather pointless to argue about it. If you find iOS apps to be suited for your needs and Android lacking, then your device path should be obvious.

You example made me giggle, however. "Fruity Loops" is now known as FL Studio and what you are specifically referring to is the mobile edition for iPhone. You might be surprised to know that an Android version is in the works. What I found even more comical is that there is no native OS X version for the studio app. If you want to run it on Apple Products you must use Boot Camp to run Windows Vista/7 or run it in a virtual machine.

If we can get past the hyperbole and discuss facts and features (keeping it civil for everyone's benefit), that would be of interest.

appreviews

Don't take this as Apple hate simply because i'm not praising them, but their privacy policies are really no different.

Google didn't so much change their privacy policy as merged all the different policies they had to have users agree to into one service, or at least that's the aim. If you think you didn't or won't agree to a similar policy when you get an iPhone you either didn't read it or might be in for a surprise. BTW you will also have to agree to Googles user agreement if you plan on using the maps function of iPhone since it's provided by Google Maps.

as for apple products lasing 10 years, my iPhone lasted less than 1 year and got terrible signal compared to my incredible S in this relatively rural area when it did work, which is what originally convinced me to switch to Android.

iPhone is a series of phones Android is a platform, yes there are crap android phones that can be picked up on the cheap and will act slow and clunky, but there are also phones that are designed to perform can compete with the likes of the iPhone.

aysiu

Do you own any Apple products? This sounds a lot like "the grass is greener..." wishful thinking. I have an iPod, two Macbook Pros, and an iPad. I assure you what you are saying is not true. But if buying an Apple product makes you happy, you should buy one.

A.Nonymous

If they do, you may have a gripe. If they don't, it's a non-issue.

tcat007

To be expected, Apple bashing in an Android forum... I'd hate to see what is said over at the Apple forums! Only reason I quite using Apple (20 years ago) was their poor reliability, and high cost. I must say their screens and graphics software are probably the best (or at least use to be), but Windows/Android has definitely caught up... at a much better price point.

Nodders

To be fair, this thread was starting by someone who had an issue with the privacy policy (which is fair enough), the precise details of which are unstated (which suggests they don't know what they are), and then in the next post or two starts noting that apple apps are way better than android in their opinion. If thats the case then it is pretty stupid to be leaving android because of a knee-jerk reaction to a change in privacy policy rather than because they brought into the wrong system. It's fair enough to prefer apple products over andxroid, or vice versa (without hearing the tired accusation of apple/android bashing)- we are of course allowed our own opinions, but the little notes to invoke response, without any supporting discussion or debate suggests a pretty obvious troll.

aysiu

I haven't seen any Apple bashing here. People have basically just said Apple isn't any better than Android/Google, not that it's so much worse. The only bashing here has been on Android/Google by the OP.

See this is Android/Google bashing: Can you find me equivalent Apple bashing quotations in this thread? One person referred to Apple as evil. Pretty much all the other statements are "Apple isn't any better" and not "Apple is far inferior" or whatnot.

Last edited by aysiu; January 30th, 2012 at 02:46 PM.

Slug

Sorry that you only just joined AF, to promptly leave the Android community so soon.

Merging this topic into the existing thread in The Lounge/Google, where it is on-topic.

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Last edited by Slug; January 30th, 2012 at 03:00 PM.

aysiu

I'm far more concerned about quality of service than "privacy," since Google won't know anything more about me in March than it does now.

I don't like "smart" predictions. If I'm looking for something, I want to search for it and find it. I don't want Google trying to predict "Are you really looking for this?" or completing my search for me or giving me results they think are more personally relevant while obscuring results I may actually be looking for. This already happens with their stupid "instant search," which appears to be in full effect, even though I've turned it off in my Google search settings.

If I usually order pizza every Friday night, I don't want Google thinking I'm interested in only pizza places and then hiding Chinese food nearby when I search for restaurants, for example.

A.Nonymous

I get what Google is trying to do, but it's the execution of it I'm not sure of. Ideally, if you want to order pizza, you might be interested in not just pizza places, but in the pizza places that your friends recommend and think are awesome so those might show up first. But I can also see where you don't care what your friends think. You just want pizza places.

tylerdurden123

All Verizon had to do to keep mine and my family's business was to move my upgrade up 6 months, but they wouldn't so I'm just cancelling my service and not paying them another dime. I have quit using all Google services.

If you have a contract with an Android phone these changes apply to you and are being forced onto you no matter what. Verizon wouldn't upgrade me six months early so I could get a non-android phone, so now I'm cancelling my account with them and not giving me another dime.

Just wait till the government decides that it must obtain (steal) all of this information from Google for national security purposes.

Last edited by Slug; January 31st, 2012 at 08:38 AM.

freeze13

All google has done is to be more upfront about what they all ready do. Everyday of your life someone is collecting info about you from what TV show you watch to what soda you buy with your snickers bar. You want to free of that move to a deserted island.

IOWA

So now your quitting a company because you want free/early upgrades? No offense, but that's childish and insanely unreasonable.

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blacktip

Here is my perspective on this issue, that I havent seen posted yet.

Lets look at this issue and compare it with the other things that are going on in the internet world rigth now. Such as sopa, acta, pipa, megaupload, anonymous etc.

It is the US govt that is trying to gets those laws passed, so they are able to easily close down websites (around the world) if those websites 'violate' copyrights. They wouldnt even have to go to court for that.
What did happen last week? Megaupload was taken down, without the laws even being active already. Can you imagine...

To me its kinda strange they can close websites even outside the US, dont you think?
Anyway, in some ways this looks quite simular to the NDAA that Obama singned into law beginning this year. Which allows for 'suspected terrorists' (read: anyone who is a threat to 'national security') to be arrested and put in jail without trial for indefinite time.

So if google, apple, twitter, facebook or whatever company is keeping track of your personal data, it will become easily for the FBI to recognize you as a suspected terrorist.
As the google policy says quite clearly, they wont give the data to third parties except under the following circumstances:
* meet any applicable law, regulation, legal process or enforceable governmental request.
* enforce applicable Terms of Service, including investigation of potential violations.

Here is an article from 'Russia Today' stating: 'FBI would like to follow you on Facebook and Twitter'

To follow up on this: Brits were denied access to the US last week over some tweets.

Sorry, I cant post any links. But you can still look it up on google if you dare.

IOWA

The scary part of that law, is what they've determined to be a threat. For instance, food stockpiling (having over x amount of days of food in your possession) is considered a threat. Growing large gardens and bartering is considered a threat. Owning a large firearms cache is considered a threat. I'm really disliking this trend.

A.Nonymous

Nothing I've read about this disturbs me in the least. Certainly not to the point where I would cancel any of my Google services. Google has all of this information about me already. They've been collecting it for years and have been transparent about collecting it. I've never been able to opt out. All that is changing is they're collecting all this information under one umbrella. To me that isn't disturbing. I'd still like an explanation from someone as to what has changed that they find so outrageous.

Slug

Tbh I don't see the problem. I've read the policy document thoroughly several times and see nothing there that is different to how things are now; it's simply stated explictly rather than implied. It's also very easy to tailor exactly what information you choose to share if you take some time to explore the various options in the Google Dashboard and your Profile settings.

Regardless of the above, the policy change is Google's not Verizon's. The latter provide a mobile network service, nothing more.

I think you'll find that the above has been there in Google's policy since the very beginning. It's nothing to do with SOPA, ACTA or anything else, simply a legal requirement. You'll find similar in the T&C you agreed to when you joined Android Forums, and every UK ISP I've used for the past 20 years has had the same thing in their privacy policies.

There are a couple of topics in the Politics & Current Affairs section discussing SOPA and ACTA which may be of interest to you, namely ACTA has been signed and SOPA internet censorship bill.

Last edited by Slug; January 31st, 2012 at 09:28 AM.

SamuraiBigEd

Most of the complaints I am seeing are based on what other people have written about it elsewhere and not from the privacy policy itself. Personally I see no problem with it if they are going to share the info between Google services only, it does create a better user experience. If they abuse it then the issue begins but I have seen nothing in the policy that even hints at that possibility.

I started a Picasa account back when it was brand new and promptly deleted everything after reading the EULA, they basically had the right to use your images any way they wanted with no compensation to you. I went to Flickr which has a photographer friendly EULA and privacy policy and haven't looked back but Picasa later adjusted their policy to be like Flickr's and I am considering it again because of the user experience and customization Google is currently purporting to offer with these changes.

I like the fact that all my Google accounts will be linked and can work in conjunction to provide a better user experience, and I will add the caveat again as long as they keep it on the level.

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OfTheDamned

I'm not sure if people are overlooking it or just haven't mentioned it, but Google is an advertising company first and everything else second. All the products that we enjoy are funded by their extremely successful advertising business. They have tracked your trends and the things you do for a long time to advertise to you in each and every product they offer. This is nothing new and it hasn't changed since day one. The main difference is that they are now sharing the information across all of their products. So now, the upcoming football game in your calendar may spark an ad for a football ticket broker. This ad may carry over to your web browser, your gmail account, ticket sales locations to show up in Google maps or your mobile web browser. They are trying to be more accurate with their advertising. The way I see it, the only thing this really does is make them better at advertising towards you based on the things you like. If you hate the ballet it does no good for them to advertise the new ballet that is coming to your town. This makes them better at what they do and gives companies more of a reason to advertise with them. This in turn brings in more revenue which allows them to develop more things that we all may enjoy using.

Now before anyone says that they don't want advertising, remember that everything you use on a regular basis is provided to you for free. The only thing you pay for is the service from the wireless carrier of your choice and the hardware provided by the manufacturer. It is no different than playing Angry Birds with ads instead of paying extra money for it.

As far as turning your information over to a federal agency, that policy has been there for quite a while. It is no different than the FBI having a watched book list.

Trust me, I am an extremely private person and none of this concerns me in the least.

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zuben el genub

Regardless of what Google is doing with privacy - they need to do something about a couple of issues that are not mentioned.

I cannot sign out of Market or email on the phone. Google assuming one user is a pain. Which means I can't hide email addy. This bothers me as it's the main email. We don't subscribe to the ISP's. I haven't had spam in it, as I have throwaway account for that. When you buy an Android phone, this is never mentioned by the carrier.

I would prefer that Google just use the mailing name and NOT the actual email.

Just use Zuben instead of Zubenelgenub@nonsense.com.
If I'm signed in - Google knows the addy.

Last edited by zuben el genub; January 31st, 2012 at 11:34 AM.

A.Nonymous

What change(s) do you object to?

A.Nonymous

Every mobile device is exactly the same. From WP7, to iOS, to BB for that matter, none of them allow multiple user accounts. All of them assume one device, one user. Not saying it's not a pain to do things that way, but it's that way across the board. Google's not doing anything any different than anyone else.

SolidOrange

Official response from Google:

Google Public Policy Blog: Changing our privacy policies, not our privacy controls

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zuben el genub

Then fix it so we can sign out. Google can keep the other services running in the background and pick up when logged it. The browser can do it.

I think I could sign out on the Nokia, but that wasn't an USA distributed phone. I couldn't get rid of OVI, but at least I could hide it in a folder somewhere.

A.Nonymous

It's the same across every smart phone though. iOS requires an iTunes account. WP7 requires a Windows Phone 7 account. BB might not require an account. I'm not sure. Perhaps that is what you should consider if that is a big deal for you. All smartphones that I'm familiar with are this way.

zuben el genub

What makes phones and tablets exempt? I can have a windows computer and log out of every site. I can turn of MS security and install my own. I can log out of Google. I can log out of market on the PC. Judging from your reply it's all phone OS.

I see a lot of parents giving the kid the phone to entertain them.

Light users could share a phone. Buy one phone with a large enough plan and use it like a landline. A tablet would be even more likely to be shared. This would include wifi only tablets - no carrier involved.

There shouldn't be any difference between devices. Especially with cloud computing. Some might not want devices in sync.

A.Nonymous

Then you should either ditch the smartphone or look at a Blackberry.

SamuraiBigEd

Tablets can have multiple accounts, my wife and I are both logged in on our Transformer and can access our information as well as make market purchases on our respective accounts (meaning my credit card, typical woman).

Danatrix

This Google privacy issue is what caused me to join the Android forums, because I'm interested in knowing other people's opinion about what's happening. At the same time, I'm happy I found the site, because if I decide to keep my phone, I have a great place to come to, so I can learn more about Droids. I've only had my phone for 2.5 weeks, and have 30 days to return the phone, and to be honest, I'm feeling really stuck on what to do.

I'm reading all these comments here, and most of you seem fairly calm, but if you go to youtube and watch all the Google privacy videos, you'll come across hundreds and hundreds of nasty comments and fearful people. Many are saying that they'll be deleting all Google related accounts by the end of February, and I was thinking of doing the same, but if I do, I won't be having much fun on the web anymore. On top of that, if I take back my phone that I'm falling in love with more and more each day, then I might as well just turn off the Internet all together.

So, as I'm writing this, I took a few minutes and went on a search, and found an article called "Google defends its new privacy policy in letter to congress" by Meghan Kelly. It's a really good article and I suggest you guys look it up and have a read. I wish I knew what the heck to do, or at least a way to feel safer. I used to be a Straightalk user at only $45 a month, and had absolutely no worries, although the Internet was super slow. Now having a taste of the Droid?? Yeah, like I wanna go back to Straighttalk (NOT!)

Those people on youtube make me paranoid. Gahh! But I have to read and keep myself updated and safe either way. I'm not reading anything positive and reassuring yet, but it was nice reading this thread of "calmer" people. Too bad no one can make up my mind for me, but I really could use some advice right now. Sorry I rambled on so long.

SamuraiBigEd

Glad you joined us Danatrix!

The letter you referred to can also be found in the link in SolidOrange's post New Google Privacy Policy.

I think what is going on with this issue is everybody is already paranoid about SOPA, PIPA and ACTA so they are blowing Google's privacy policy change way out of proportion. If you read it there doesn't appear to be anything out of the ordinary, I saw no indication that they are going to create accounts for you or any of the other things I hear people complaining about. Quite the contrary, they intend to use the info to custom tailor your user experience and you still have a large amount of control in what they can do as evidenced here http://www.google.com/intl/en/privacy/tools.html.

Leaving Android and Google is a bit premature, stick things out, I'm sure you will be pleased you did.

Last edited by SamuraiBigEd; February 1st, 2012 at 12:21 AM.

Danatrix

Thanks, SamuraiBigEd! Being a newbie, I can't post any links, but I see it's being posted a lot and being discussed everywhere! Funny, I just came from the link you last posted about privacytools. It's now going on 2am, and I'm wide awake, trying to find as much info as I can to keep myself safe. You're probably right about these people blowing this way out of proportion, because I'm not reading the things they're saying on Google's end. I'm probably gonna need 100 more people to say that to me to make me feel safe and secure, though. Well, I'll settle for 99.

98. I'm trying. I really am. LOL!

A.Nonymous

What is it about the new policy you find troubling?

Slug

Will one do?

I know (and respect) just how much OTD values her privacy, so this statement won't have been made without a great deal of consideration of the facts.

zuben el genub

It's started:
Microsoft slams Google's privacy policy in newspaper ad - Neowin.net

Google has fired back:
Google fires back against Microsoft's privacy ad - Neowin.net

Also:

Google to discuss new privacy policy, you are not invited - Neowin.net

What annoys me the most about this is assumption. All marketing arms of companies think customers will drool at the latest.

If you don't want spam - you can't really give an opinion. I worked in marketing - couldn't answer a survey.(not that I would)

This is the "how are we doing" "what do you think" variety

Last edited by zuben el genub; February 1st, 2012 at 05:10 PM.

A.Nonymous

I'm still waiting for one person anywhere to tell me what is in this new policy that is so objectionable. So far I've seen people from Twitter, FB, G+, various blogs, news outlets, etc.... all bashing the policy and not a single person has said what is so objectionable.

OfTheDamned

That is because most of them don't know either.


Straight from Google's....errr...mouth:

Most people really have no idea whatsoever about Google's Privacy Policy, what has changed or even if anything has really changed. Most are just angry about the fact that it has changed (which is odd since so many voted for it when Obama talked about it). The only thing that they have really done is to consolidate everything into one policy instead of the multitude that they had before. The main reason that some are upset has to do with the fact that they never read the privacy policy for any of Google's stuff before this. Now they are upset about a supposed "change". I am sure the folks at Google are sitting around saying, "WTF?!?! We tried to make it easier!!!!!!"

I view all this ridiculousness the same way I viewed the outcry over Android "Fragmentation" and iPhone's "Antenna Gate". It is a bunch of people sitting around with nothing to do and making a mountain out of a golf divot.

Last edited by OfTheDamned; February 1st, 2012 at 06:12 PM. Reason: typos

zuben el genub

I haven't seen an explanation yet of how to unlink all the services. I might not want to drop Blogger, but I don't want it included to where it would show up if I had a public account. I might just want that one service private.

You can't delete a single service now. Were I selling my pictures, I would prefer to delete Picasa totally to go to a paid site for photographers, but keep Blog, Mail, Calendar. I don't think not letting someone delete one service is fair. All I can delete is the whole account.

Also how will Google deal with one person that has a public account, and those that use a private account posting a comment on a public page.

SamuraiBigEd

Here is a link to the privacy tools web page Privacy tools ? Google which explains in full the control you have over your accounts.

As far as a private account posting on a public page you are making the post in a public forum and as such it is public information that can be searched and read by anyone.

zuben el genub

I've read that. I can't delete or unsubscribe to Blogger itself - I can only delete just the content. Google is still counting me as a Blogger user.

That was the gripe. You can only delete the posts in an account - not a service. I do want Mail and Market.

SamuraiBigEd

I am sure if enough complain something may be done about that but that has been the case with many of the internet based accounts for years, you can't delete the account itself only the data.

A.Nonymous

How does this affect you though? I have never used Blogger in my life. Yet I'm counted as a Blogger user I guess. How does this really affect me though? I don't see how it does in my case. Your case is different. How?

Slug

I can't comment on Blogger as I've never used the service, but Picassa I do:

Or you could simply change how the Picassa albums in question are shared. The "Only me" option makes the images within such folders completely private, for example.

zuben el genub

It's padding statistics. If I were investing, I wouldn't care for it. I saw a rumor that Google was adding Gmail users to G+ to compete with Facebook. I'm taking the rumor with a grain of salt (until I see some kind of reliable backup), but if true, it would be false statistics. I would like to see a prospectus after the policy, especially now that FB has gone public. At least one quote on the news last night was FB wanting to be everything to everyone and keep you on its pages.

I've looked at Dashboard - says I have 50 apps. I don't. A lot got one glance and were deleted immediately. Reflect what I have honestly or don't post the total.

A.Nonymous

I agree that it's padding statistics. Every company does this though. How many users are on Twitter? How many of them are just spammers? Yet Twitter counts them. FB does the same. It's not unusual. I do wish I could delete those apps off the dashboard though. Google is convinced I purchased one of them. I didn't. I would like to, but now I can't because Google is convinced I did. Yet when I try to download, the download fails because I've never purchased the app. So Google knows I bought it, but also knows I didn't buy it so now I can neither buy it, nor download it. Ugh.

Anyway, Google padding the stats is what every single company out there does. It's not unusual. It's standard business practices. And apparently I do have a Blogger account, I made one post back in 2009 and haven't used it since and had forgotten.

Shinji01

Like mentioned, I dont do anything illegal so I am ok with whatever google maybe doing with my info, and hope it gets put to good use for better services.

That said, the e-mails did freak me out a bit because I thought it was anoher one of thoses identity theft mails that steal you password etc.
Couldn't they have advertised that such mails will pop up prior to the actual sending???