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Old February 3rd, 2012, 02:39 PM   #101 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Snedd View Post
Pixel tags are 1 pixel by 1 pixel transparent GIF images hidden in web pages, mobile ads, and emails that are used to track where you've been on the web and whether you're opening emails.

For example if a company sends you a marketing email it will have a 1x1 transparent GIF in it whose image URL is uniquely tagged to your email address. If you open the email (assuming your email client is set to automatically download images) your email client requests that unique image from their web server and then they know that your address is valid and you opened the email. Thats why they are small - low bandwidth.

Similarly with an ad server, the ad image will be generic, but you'll also be served a pixel tag which is unique. When your browser requests the pixel tag URL they know the ad was served successfully. If you then click on the ad and go to another site which also has pixel tags they know that you arrived at the site via the ad, and so on.
wow I didn't know that. Learnt something new today. Merci Snedd


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This is why I use Thunderbird which doesn't load those requests unless I allow it to =)
So...this TBird thing....can I use it on my Android phone?

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Old February 3rd, 2012, 02:55 PM   #102 (permalink)
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I've looked at Dashboard - says I have 50 apps. I don't.
Did you also notice that every Google service is listed there, along with the relevant privacy controls? It should be possible from there to "opt out" of whatever it is that you want to.
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Old February 3rd, 2012, 05:02 PM   #103 (permalink)
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Only opt out I've seen was from ads. I can't delete or opt out of Blogger or Picasa - I can just delete the pics and blogs. Not use it again. Believe me, I've crawled through that whole page.

They might be planning on adding opt-outs, but opt-outs ain't there yet.
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Old February 3rd, 2012, 05:45 PM   #104 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by zuben el genub View Post
Only opt out I've seen was from ads. I can't delete or opt out of Blogger or Picasa - I can just delete the pics and blogs. Not use it again. Believe me, I've crawled through that whole page.

They might be planning on adding opt-outs, but opt-outs ain't there yet.
They've never had opt-out. Ever. That hasn't changed.
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Old February 4th, 2012, 06:34 AM   #105 (permalink)
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Think it might have been in the browsers. There is one checkbox for ads on the phone.
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Old February 4th, 2012, 06:39 AM   #106 (permalink)
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I can't delete or opt out of Blogger or Picasa - I can just delete the pics and blogs.
As I said previously, in Picassa you can choose how galleries are shared. Isn't that an "opt out"?
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Old February 4th, 2012, 05:10 PM   #107 (permalink)
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Or you can just not upload anything to Picasa which would be the ultimate opt-out.
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Old February 4th, 2012, 05:32 PM   #108 (permalink)
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I have lots of stuff and more every day on Google services. I used to be a privacy nut but kind of got sick of hiding from ads and advertisers for no real good reason. I can count on one hand the times I've bought a product by clicking an online ad in the last 10 years. As long as Google employees aren't stalking me in the alley at night I couldn't care less what info they have.

If you need real privacy use The Onion Router.
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Old February 4th, 2012, 09:45 PM   #109 (permalink)
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I still haven't seen anyone other than zuben el genub say exactly what it was they objected to about the new policy. Zuben's objection was that Google is opting him into all of their services whether he uses them or not and is padding their numbers this way. I haven't seen anyone else here or elsewhere say anything they find objectionable. Everyone seems to hate this, but no one knows why. (Except for zuben el genub. I disagree with him, but at least he knows why he doesn't like the policy.)
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Old February 5th, 2012, 09:29 AM   #110 (permalink)
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Anyone remember portals? What happened to AOL, Yahoo and a few others?

The troubling thing about this locking in now, is that Google, Apple, and MS also distribute an OS. I'm not saying these companies would, but there could be all kinds of unwanted goodies in the OS.

One unwanted goody could be auto-registration of your product. Once registered, very difficult to change registration - phone totally locked to your account (by IMEI) making it difficult to give phone to family member or sell it even if you delete account. Phone has been registered once - can't reregister even with a factory reset.

Love/hate relationship with marketing for anyone with a brand - they love to see new users, but would also love to see new users NOT have any way to leave or change the brand - no matter how shoddy the brand gets.
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Old February 5th, 2012, 10:47 AM   #111 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by zuben el genub View Post
Anyone remember portals? What happened to AOL, Yahoo and a few others?

The troubling thing about this locking in now, is that Google, Apple, and MS also distribute an OS. I'm not saying these companies would, but there could be all kinds of unwanted goodies in the OS.

One unwanted goody could be auto-registration of your product. Once registered, very difficult to change registration - phone totally locked to your account (by IMEI) making it difficult to give phone to family member or sell it even if you delete account. Phone has been registered once - can't reregister even with a factory reset.

Love/hate relationship with marketing for anyone with a brand - they love to see new users, but would also love to see new users NOT have any way to leave or change the brand - no matter how shoddy the brand gets.
You can not lock a phone number to anything, the number portability law prevents that. You have the right to take your number with you when you leave and go elsewhere, I ported my ATT land line to Sprint years ago, it is my business number and I plan to take it with me if I ever leave Sprint.
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Old February 5th, 2012, 10:59 AM   #112 (permalink)
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I just sold my old Android phone to a friend, and he just popped in his SIM card, and all was good. What is this
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making it difficult to give phone to family member or sell it even if you delete account. Phone has been registered once - can't reregister even with a factory reset.
business?

Can you point out the part in the Google privacy policy that says you can't sell your phone?
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Old February 5th, 2012, 11:10 AM   #113 (permalink)
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I just sold my old Android phone to a friend, and he just popped in his SIM card, and all was good. What is this business?

Can you point out the part in the Google privacy policy that says you can't sell your phone?
I believe zuben el genub was postulating what *could* happen, not what was happening with the current state of mobile devices.

The carrier networks use the IEMI/ESN to authenticate the device on their networks and Google/Apple/MS use email account/password to verify access to their services. I'm not sure how tying those two bits of information permanently together could benefit either the carrier or the OS maker in any way?
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Old February 5th, 2012, 02:36 PM   #114 (permalink)
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I don't see how it'd benefit anybody. In this case, I was a T-Mobile user who sold my phone to another T-Mobile user. If I couldn't sell my phone, HTC would still not get my business (I went to Samsung). If I couldn't sell my phone, T-Mobile would still not get my business (I went to Verizon). If I couldn't sell my phone, I'd still be using Google (signed in with the same account on my new Galaxy Nexus Android phone). If I couldn't sell my phone, all it would mean is that it ends up in a landfill somewhere. So who benefits from my being stuck on a particular phone? Nobody.

And, more relevantly, where in the new Google privacy policy is there any mention or hint of someone's account being permanently tied to a phone? Nowhere. So this just sounds like unwarranted paranoia.
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Old February 5th, 2012, 04:20 PM   #115 (permalink)
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Locking IMEI to account would sell more phones and lock people into services if they want a discounted upgrade. Instead of giving old phone to your kid, you would have to buy him a new one. Could mean no more unlocked phones here.

The part about not being able to sell phone was speculation. Carriers can turn off a stolen phone. How far any law would go, or loopholes in this day and age are up in the air.

Congress is still pretty good with pork.

CIQ got onto some phones - did anyone see it coming? Who paid to put it on the phones?

If the provision about jailbreaking/rooting gets the kibosh, we will have lost control.

People need to learn to consider what if? Most of the comments on the privacy policy have been "I have nothing to hide" You might not have anything criminal to hide, but whatever could lead to identity theft should be hidden. The old proverb about "Give them an inch and they'll take a foot " is true. I don't think too much is immune from a dedicated hacker.

It isn't paranoia. Think about that case of decrypting a laptop. What do they do with info not needed to make a court case. Also about unscrupulous federal/state/city employees wanting to make a buck. Some AOL people got caught selling personal info. Criminals have paid store employees to put skimmers on credit terminals.

Taken with a grain of salt but possible:
How to spot a fake Facebook profile (infographic) | ZDNet
Any information is grist to marketing's mill.
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Old February 5th, 2012, 04:41 PM   #116 (permalink)
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Here you go:
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2012/02/what-actually-changed-google%27s-privacy-policy

Don't know about you, but I don't want Google's suggestions. It's more fun to hunt.

Besides - if I hunted for something like jaguar printed fabric, I'd get the car, the animal, or the football team.
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Old February 6th, 2012, 08:36 AM   #117 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by zuben el genub View Post
Here you go:
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2012/02/what-actually-changed-google%27s-privacy-policy

Don't know about you, but I don't want Google's suggestions. It's more fun to hunt.

Besides - if I hunted for something like jaguar printed fabric, I'd get the car, the animal, or the football team.
I completely and totally disagree. I don't want to hunt through stuff. If I'm looking for Jaguars and I'm a hardcore football fan, I want the team to come up first. It's the most relevant result for me. If I'm a tree hugging hippie, I want the animal to show up first. If I'm a gearhead, then the car should show up. Those are the results most relevant to me.

Personally, I don't see what the big deal is. Google is sharing data with itself. It's the same data they already have and have been collecting forever. They're not collecting anything new. They're not sharing anything with third parties. They're just telling themselves what they already know.
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Old February 6th, 2012, 09:01 AM   #118 (permalink)
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It's not about data sharing. It's about the search. If I entered jaguar fabric, I don't want the car, animal, or team.

Google apparently can't tell the difference between astronomy and astrology at times.

I just ran into the same on Market. Looking for a launcher for tablet. Tried entering every way I could think of, and got nothing but pages of skins for Go Launcher.

You had to hunt through all that to find an actual launcher app and not the skins.

I have nothing against Go Launcher - in fact I'm trying it. But having to search through skins to find the basic app was the pits. I finally found a review site that listed launchers for tablets and typed in the apps from the review.

If Google can't collect data right - it isn't much help.
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Old February 6th, 2012, 10:58 AM   #119 (permalink)
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It's not about data sharing. It's about the search. If I entered jaguar fabric, I don't want the car, animal, or team.

Google apparently can't tell the difference between astronomy and astrology at times.
As someone who used to work in the SEM and SEO field I can tell you that majority of the time this has nothing to do with Google. They set up an algorithm for search results and people who do SEO work very hard to get pages set up properly so that they appear at the top of the search results. If you are getting false results, it is usually the person that set up the page putting the wrong terms into their pages.

It isn't Google that can't tell the difference in astronomy and astrology it is the people who built the webpage. If they put terms that connect them to both or if they put in the exact phrases you are looking for (Google offers key word lists based on searches per month and on average) then the page is going to show up for you. If the one site on the web doesn't use the key words you used for your search then you may never find it. It all depends on who and how the SEO is done. It is a really big business for a reason.

The app market appears to function in many of the same ways. The terms the developer uses in their app listing combined with download numbers and reviews look to push apps to the top of the results.
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Old February 6th, 2012, 11:50 AM   #120 (permalink)
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To be completely fair to Google, there are many, many people out there who can't tell the difference between astronomy and astrology. I once mentioned in passing to someone that I enjoyed astronomy casually. I then endured a long tirade about how evil astronomy was because it was based on paganism and you're putting your faith in the stars and the location of stars has no influence on our lives and blah, blah, blah, blah. I tuned them out after about 2.5 seconds and felt I listened too long.

I've also heard people claim that astrology is legit because it's scientifically based and NASA has professional astrologers on staff. *Le sigh* Garbage in, garbage out applies to search.
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Old February 6th, 2012, 05:11 PM   #121 (permalink)
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Google could try the whole word. That would put astrol before astrom and you wouldn't have the garbage in between. You wouldn't have to know the difference. Predictive text keeps going until it can't get the word.

Market could use a file tree of some sort.

Launcher apps main folder, and skins for that app in a subfolder. And alphabetized!

If Google wants to make all this info public to those who want a public account they need to do better with sorting and labeling.

Can give another reason - there used to be a Red Hat society for women. It might still be around for all I know. Red Hat to me means Linux! Be wasting either the women's or the geek's time if there was no differentiation.
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Old February 7th, 2012, 03:54 AM   #122 (permalink)
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Google could try the whole word. That would put astrol before astrom and you wouldn't have the garbage in between. You wouldn't have to know the difference. Predictive text keeps going until it can't get the word.

Market could use a file tree of some sort.

Launcher apps main folder, and skins for that app in a subfolder. And alphabetized!

If Google wants to make all this info public to those who want a public account they need to do better with sorting and labeling.

Can give another reason - there used to be a Red Hat society for women. It might still be around for all I know. Red Hat to me means Linux! Be wasting either the women's or the geek's time if there was no differentiation.
I'm not sure you understood what I was saying. It wouldn't be Google wasting anyone's time. It would be the person inputting the keywords into the website. All Google does is gather the information and log the data from the website. If some red hat geek decided to base his site around the keywords "red" and "hat" and then decided to include the keyword "society" in the script it would his mistake that messed someone up, not Google's. It works the same way with every search engine out there. The keywords that someone inputs into the script are a part of what forces a page to show up in search result. If you ever want to see this open up firefox and go to any website. I'll give this site as an example. If I go to "view" in the menu bar and select "page source" from the drop down I see this in the meta information:

Quote:
<meta name="keywords" content="android forums, android forum, android, google android, android phone, android phones" />
<meta name="description" content="Android Forums is a community of Google Android enthusiasts who love their Android Enabled Phones!" />
This, along with many other things, tells Google that people searching for Android, android forums, google android and android phones that this is a site they will be interested in. Now there are plenty of other things that go into this obviously, but this is a part of it that is easy to see. If I do a Google search for Android Forum, the main page is right up there at the top.

Now, take a look at what the Samsung Galaxy Nexus forum shows:

Quote:
<meta name="keywords" content="Samsung,Galaxy,Nexus,Samsung Galaxy Nexus, android forums, android forum, android, google android, android phone, android phones" />
<meta name="description" content="Samsung Galaxy Nexus - " />
Again, this tells Google that this page is about Samsung, Galaxy, Nexus, Samsung Galaxy Nexus, Google, Android Phones and Android Forums.

If I do a search for "Samsung Galaxy Nexus" then the forum doesn't even show up on the first page of results, but if I add the word "forum" then we show up 5th in the search results.

If the guys that built this site made a mistake and threw the word apple or iphone on either of these pages then this site just might show up in searches for those keywords as well. That wouldn't be Google's fault. That would be the fault of the site designers or anyone that was optimizing the site for Google searches.
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Old February 7th, 2012, 08:42 AM   #123 (permalink)
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I did understand. The thing is - usually in any workplace, things get filed either in numerical or alphabetical order. Same for places with a lot of files. The phonebook is. Why should the search engines be any different? If most Office software regardless of maker or OS can sort that way, then coding it can't be too hard.

If the keywords were taken letter by letter like predictive text on a search, it wouldn't matter who input what. It's the search terms.

Maybe libraries are almost obsolete, but the Dewey Decimal System worked. So does sorting by alphabet.

You could still use keywords, but the results would come up in alphabetical order.
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Old February 7th, 2012, 09:01 AM   #124 (permalink)
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I did understand. The thing is - usually in any workplace, things get filed either in numerical or alphabetical order. Same for places with a lot of files. The phonebook is. Why should the search engines be any different? If most Office software regardless of maker or OS can sort that way, then coding it can't be too hard.

If the keywords were taken letter by letter like predictive text on a search, it wouldn't matter who input what. It's the search terms.

Maybe libraries are almost obsolete, but the Dewey Decimal System worked. So does sorting by alphabet.

You could still use keywords, but the results would come up in alphabetical order.
You do realize at that point that almost ever single site on the web would become AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAANDROID FORUMS or some such variation at that point to get a top ranking?

The whole idea in the beginning was to base everything on content, but then people started to understand that and pages started getting manipulated to beat the system. Do you remember the pages that used to have those really long blank areas at the bottom or the ones that had just a series of what appeared to be words in random order at the bottom? That is one of the ways that people used to manipulate the system to get higher page ranking. As this trend continued Google, along with other engines, started to modify the way things were done so the people couldn't take advantage. Once people caught onto that method things changed again and so on and so forth. Now, there is a pretty good system in place and believe it or not. You will still get some random pages or some content that isn't right because someone didn't do things the way that they should, but for the most part you end up getting the better pages on the subject you are looking for.
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Old February 7th, 2012, 09:55 AM   #125 (permalink)
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I did understand. The thing is - usually in any workplace, things get filed either in numerical or alphabetical order. Same for places with a lot of files. The phonebook is. Why should the search engines be any different? If most Office software regardless of maker or OS can sort that way, then coding it can't be too hard.

If the keywords were taken letter by letter like predictive text on a search, it wouldn't matter who input what. It's the search terms.

Maybe libraries are almost obsolete, but the Dewey Decimal System worked. So does sorting by alphabet.

You could still use keywords, but the results would come up in alphabetical order.
Yahoo's original plan was to index the web similar to what you describe. Didn't work out that well for them. The concept is sound enough, but the Internet is so vast and so big it doesn't work.
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Old February 7th, 2012, 10:12 AM   #126 (permalink)
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I did understand. The thing is - usually in any workplace, things get filed either in numerical or alphabetical order. Same for places with a lot of files. The phonebook is. Why should the search engines be any different? If most Office software regardless of maker or OS can sort that way, then coding it can't be too hard.

If the keywords were taken letter by letter like predictive text on a search, it wouldn't matter who input what. It's the search terms.

Maybe libraries are almost obsolete, but the Dewey Decimal System worked. So does sorting by alphabet.

You could still use keywords, but the results would come up in alphabetical order.
This has got to be the most ridiculous search suggestion I've ever seen. I'm not joking.
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Old February 7th, 2012, 10:49 AM   #127 (permalink)
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You do realize at that point that almost ever single site on the web would become AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAANDROID FORUMS or some such variation at that point to get a top ranking?
At a quick glance, I thought you were screaming due to your frustration with all of those As.
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Old February 8th, 2012, 04:25 PM   #128 (permalink)
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If the online wasn't enough:
Google paying users to track 100% of their Web usage via little black box
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Old February 8th, 2012, 06:09 PM   #129 (permalink)
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I really don't see any problem here. Google is asking for volunteers (and paying them) to learn how people actually use the internet. It like the Nielsen rating system used for TV. You don't participate if you don't want to.
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Old February 8th, 2012, 07:20 PM   #130 (permalink)
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Just interesting - haven't seen anyone else use a separate box for the internet.

I know you don't have to.

Just the fact that they are trying for non-Google users. There's still quite a few dial-up using AOL as a portal.
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Old February 9th, 2012, 09:11 AM   #131 (permalink)
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The thing that is disturbing is no one has mentioned sites that should be off-limits.
Your doctor has a website, and you schedule an appointment, you are dealing with a lawyer just about a will, or a government website for a title transfer on a house.

There should be no advertising need for these sites. Get an ad - go to Dr. XYZ, he's better?
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Old February 9th, 2012, 09:32 AM   #132 (permalink)
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The thing that is disturbing is no one has mentioned sites that should be off-limits.
Your doctor has a website, and you schedule an appointment, you are dealing with a lawyer just about a will, or a government website for a title transfer on a house.

There should be no advertising need for these sites. Get an ad - go to Dr. XYZ, he's better?
If you are exchanging information with your doctor, lawyer, bank, etc, it better be encrypted or you shouldn't be doing it. If you are exchanging that kind of information through unencrypted connections, Google is the least of your worries.

FWIW, your property title (in the U.S. anyway) is part of the public record and everyone has a right to know.
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Old February 9th, 2012, 12:29 PM   #133 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by zuben el genub View Post
The thing that is disturbing is no one has mentioned sites that should be off-limits.
Your doctor has a website, and you schedule an appointment, you are dealing with a lawyer just about a will, or a government website for a title transfer on a house.

There should be no advertising need for these sites. Get an ad - go to Dr. XYZ, he's better?
Not sure I'm following you here. Doctors and lawyers shouldn't be allowed to advertise?
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Old February 9th, 2012, 02:40 PM   #134 (permalink)
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The thing that is disturbing is no one has mentioned sites that should be off-limits.
Your doctor has a website, and you schedule an appointment, you are dealing with a lawyer just about a will, or a government website for a title transfer on a house.

There should be no advertising need for these sites. Get an ad - go to Dr. XYZ, he's better?
Why should any site be off limits in advertising?

When you visit your doctor's website, maybe a group for cancer awareness wants to remind you to get a colonoscopy or a woman get a breast exam.

You go to a lawyer and are reminded that you should have a will or that legal zoom has helped plenty of people do things without paying a lawyer.

Maybe the site about the title transfer wants to show you the current interest rates on homes or offers a suggestion about refinancing your house. Maybe since it is a government site they want to show you an ad reminding you to look at the sex offender database in your area. It could be that they want to remind you to vote in your next election.

Not all advertising is bad and not everyone advertising something is trying to get you to buy anything. Sometimes they are just offering a public service announcement. Would you rather get something about keeping you dog (the one you don't own) being happy and healthy with Brand D dog food? How about a reminder when you go to a legal site that you need to see your gynecologist? Do you want to see great recipe sites for vegans while you are eating a rack of ribs? None of those make any sense for you do they?
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Old February 9th, 2012, 05:12 PM   #135 (permalink)
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I'm not interested. I just want the site I visited. I might not be interested in buying a home. I'm not interested in public service. If anyone reminds me live for health care I don't want, they get told where to go. If I want my cats happy and healthy, I'll ask my vet.

I worked with radio advertising and read all the trades the office got. I dislike some methods.

No one in advertising admits their product is crap. If the ads had to carry a rating for truth and customer satisfaction by an independent organization, I might be interested. Will the ads be vetted? If ads are not vetted, you could get a sleazebag that isn't even licensed advertising medical services. How about plain ambulance chasers? You already might be getting spam from the idiots. Now the ad is on Google search - "if it's on the internet, it must be true"

But wouldn't your insurance company love to know how many times you checked Web MD? Or looked for certain info? Your question might not be public, but the url of the site might be. That's the part I don't want to see.
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Old February 9th, 2012, 05:28 PM   #136 (permalink)
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All these big companies have CIA written all over it. Apple, Google, Facebook.

Assange: 'iPhone, BlackBerry, Gmail users - you're all screwed' ? The Register
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Old February 9th, 2012, 06:02 PM   #137 (permalink)
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All these big companies have CIA written all over it. Apple, Google, Facebook.

Assange: 'iPhone, BlackBerry, Gmail users - you're all screwed' ? The Register
The CIA has far more information on you than any of those companies do.
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Old February 9th, 2012, 06:13 PM   #138 (permalink)
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I'm not interested. I just want the site I visited. I might not be interested in buying a home. I'm not interested in public service. If anyone reminds me live for health care I don't want, they get told where to go. If I want my cats happy and healthy, I'll ask my vet.

I worked with radio advertising and read all the trades the office got. I dislike some methods.

No one in advertising admits their product is crap. If the ads had to carry a rating for truth and customer satisfaction by an independent organization, I might be interested. Will the ads be vetted? If ads are not vetted, you could get a sleazebag that isn't even licensed advertising medical services. How about plain ambulance chasers? You already might be getting spam from the idiots. Now the ad is on Google search - "if it's on the internet, it must be true"

But wouldn't your insurance company love to know how many times you checked Web MD? Or looked for certain info? Your question might not be public, but the url of the site might be. That's the part I don't want to see.
So basically you don't want any ads at all?
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Old February 9th, 2012, 09:30 PM   #139 (permalink)
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So basically you don't want any ads at all?
That is the way I am reading it as well.

I often wonder what people believe the status of gmail, google calendar, google docs, maps, navigation, Android, google search, google voice, android market, google earth etc. not to mention all the people that Google employs would be right now if there was no revenue from advertising to fund these projects. Where would smartphone technology be at this moment if there was no revenue from ads to start off the huge development kick that Android helped create?

We wouldn't have to worry about this conversation that is for sure. Without any of the revenue for ads there wouldn't be Android as we know it. We certainly wouldn't be talking about any privacy policy changes because there would be no changes and probably no privacy policy to worry about. This forum wouldn't even exist because there wouldn't be Android phones to talk about and the ad revenue that keeps this site up and running while also making it completely free to the end user wouldn't be needed either.
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Old February 10th, 2012, 01:49 AM   #140 (permalink)
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That is the way I am reading it as well.

I often wonder what people believe the status of gmail, google calendar, google docs, maps, navigation, Android, google search, google voice, android market, google earth etc. not to mention all the people that Google employs would be right now if there was no revenue from advertising to fund these projects. Where would smartphone technology be at this moment if there was no revenue from ads to start off the huge development kick that Android helped create?

We wouldn't have to worry about this conversation that is for sure. Without any of the revenue for ads there wouldn't be Android as we know it. We certainly wouldn't be talking about any privacy policy changes because there would be no changes and probably no privacy policy to worry about. This forum wouldn't even exist because there wouldn't be Android phones to talk about and the ad revenue that keeps this site up and running while also making it completely free to the end user wouldn't be needed either.
Its that entitlement complex again. Everyone wants the best without paying for it. If people don't want ads, they can go use paid solutions for nearly everything except search... but they aren't, are they?
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Old February 10th, 2012, 08:27 AM   #141 (permalink)
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No ads unless they abide by truth in advertising. (not that "as seen on TV" nonsense.) I would pay for the OS on the phone, just like the older versions of Windows, except it isn't offered. I usually buy my apps.

Phone is rooted and most everything except market is gone. I've never used maps, live, don't need navigation or half the other services on Google anyway. I buy my phones outright.

I can avoid Google search, don't have to use Chrome, have a Flickr account, have other email accounts. I paid for Opera when it first came out.

Except for the phone I can actually avoid Google if I choose. If Palm had succeeded, I would have stayed with it.

If it weren't for the fact that only Apple and Android have the apps I do want (all paid) I'd be gone.

I really do have a phone account for my convenience. I simply don't have to answer it, or make the rest of the family lose calls since I have turned off the answering machine.

I see the phone as a large encyclopedia with all required info at a glance.
It's not a social or entertainment device. It's a PDA. I can't carry a bag full of nature guides anymore. That's why the phone is a plus.
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Old February 10th, 2012, 08:42 AM   #142 (permalink)
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No ads unless they abide by truth in advertising. (not that "as seen on TV" nonsense.) I would pay for the OS on the phone, just like the older versions of Windows, except it isn't offered. I usually buy my apps.

Phone is rooted and most everything except market is gone. I've never used maps, live, don't need navigation or half the other services on Google anyway. I buy my phones outright.

I can avoid Google search, don't have to use Chrome, have a Flickr account, have other email accounts.

Except for the phone I can actually avoid Google if I choose. If Palm had succeeded, I would have stayed with it.

If it weren't for the fact that only Apple and Android have the apps I do want (all paid) I'd be gone.

I really do have a phone account for my convenience. I simply don't have to answer it, or make the rest of the family lose calls since I have turned off the answering machine.

I see the phone as a large encyclopedia with all required info at a glance.
It's not a social or entertainment device. It's a PDA. I can't carry a bag full of nature guides anymore. That's why the phone is a plus.
What is truth? Someone asked Jesus that question 2,000 years ago and wasn't the first to ask it and wasn't the last either. There are obviously blatant lies in some advertising and there are laws against that. I can't say my product will make you lose X lbs in X weeks unless I can back it up somehow. I can say that my product is by far the greatest weight loss product on the face of the planet all day long. It might be nothing more than snake oil, but I can claim it's the greatest all day long and there's nothing illegal about it.

There's a local burger joint who's slogan is, "It just tastes better." Is that a true statement? Well, it depends on what you put it up against. Better than some foods for sure. Worse than others. It's not a falsifiable statement at all. It's complete and total hype.

Also, your use of your phone is completely different from the vast majority of people's usage of their phone. Perhaps you should look at an e-reader if all you're looking for is a portable way to carry tons of books around.
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Old February 10th, 2012, 08:45 AM   #143 (permalink)
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I'm afraid you will never get what you want in a society that thrives on open commerce. Android is simply one iteration of an advertising delivery vehicle that benefits both the user and the advertiser. Look at television networks or magazines and newspapers. Advertising pay for the lion's share of content and production. You can't get a version of Sports Illustrated with no ads, even if you were willing to pay $50 an issue. Neither could you view the current episode of The Big Bang Theory through an exclusive ad-free cable subscription for $500/month.

You can't ride on an ad-free bus or train by buying a premium ticket and you can't eliminate billboard advertising by driving only on toll roads. It's the nature of our society and the foundation of modern commerce. The only way to eliminate the daily barrage of advertising is to completely disconnect yourself from society.
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Old February 10th, 2012, 08:46 AM   #144 (permalink)
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We canned our landline for DSL. So we need phones. Ereaders tend to be proprietary. I had a Nook and traded it for a tablet. Half the books I would buy aren't in digital format anyway, except for Android and Apple.

Since we watch mostly PBS, there aren't many ads, and what there are are usually for support.
Yes, we subscribe. I get 2 Astronomy mags - they have ads, but mostly for astronomical equipment. No Viagra or Cialis. We watch sports, but there's a mute button on the controller. I'm collecting World Series games of the past - no ads. We don't do commercial TV or movies.

If you have read most of Shakespeare, most plots are covered, It's more like how many ways can we "shoot em up".

I have tried the ad-free version of some apps to see if I liked them. I've seen a couple of ads for dating sites that are just a tad off-color. Who vets these ads? What's to stop some of the sleaze companies from offering free ringtones and charging your cell bill $9.99 a month?
It's done by text spam now. Why not push type ads? Do you want your kids hitting this ad for a "subscription?"

I know I'm the odd man out. Always have been.
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Old February 11th, 2012, 05:03 AM   #145 (permalink)
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I also only watch paid channels so I see very little ads.
I used to buy lots of magazines but not any more.
And with apps, I use free apps but the ads in it never really registered in my mind.

However, as someone on the side of placing ads, optimized advertising is great.
Why spend money advertising to everyone when you know that what your selling will not interest that "everyone".
The only reason advertising is annoying right now is because it gets shoved in your face whether you like it or not.
But if it was properly optimized, it would become "useful information" and you might actually like it.

I think right now the internet is at a point where it is trying to come up with ap process that works, and if that means google needs info about stuff, then I am ok with it.
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Old February 11th, 2012, 07:10 AM   #146 (permalink)
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Ads are only good to announce new products. You can never get the information you really want from the BS copy. I might want to know how easy it might be to save messages as text, and what format. No one ever puts that in ad copy.

If Google uses info like Market, then it's still flawed. It will be flawed until they mark "uninstalled" against apps that were uninstalled. If you are looking for info before trying and you get nothing but "installed" - you get the impression that the app is great. Half the reviews are useless. "It's great/It sucks" reviews tell you nothing.
A listing of 100 installs 50 uninstalls might give you a clue that you need to dig further. You have to dig through forums like this to find the answer.

If I am interested in something, I usually subscribe to a newsletter. In the case of magazines, I'm not dropping subscriptions, so trying to get me to subscribe is preaching to the choir.

What's Google going to do about Amazon? If Amazon doesn't share the info about what you bought - doesn't do Google any good. Amazon does sell stuff that Google doesn't. Google doesn't do kitchen gadgets for example. Or automotive doodads. I don't want a mess of ads for something I only bought once and never will buy again.

Google won't be able to get rid of the sleazes. Someone will start screaming about their right to advertise to anyone and the whole mess will wind up in court.
If a court decides that just targeted ads are OK - that is a form of censorship and sets a precedence for censorship. If we want an open internet with all kinds of info, then we put up with the BS. I'd rather put up with all the BS and ignore it.
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Old March 6th, 2012, 07:38 AM   #147 (permalink)
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I generally don't have anything against advertising, since it's funding a lot of free services.

But, i am reacting when people say " I don't care, I am not doing anything illegal.. ".
What if the law changes? What if you live in a repressive country?

That is just my 5 cents. Do you think that I might need a tinfoilhat?
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Old March 6th, 2012, 08:36 AM   #148 (permalink)
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If you are exchanging information with your doctor, lawyer, bank, etc, it better be encrypted or you shouldn't be doing it. If you are exchanging that kind of information through unencrypted connections, Google is the least of your worries.

FWIW, your property title (in the U.S. anyway) is part of the public record and everyone has a right to know.
Been a while since I paid attention to this thread. Regarding the above, they don't need to know WHAT you're doing at that doctor's (or lawyer's) site in order to direct advertising for related sites, just that you were there. It has nothing to do with securing the information you transfer to them, a site hit alone can trigger the directed advertising.

FWIW, I never see the ads on pages, I use ABP in Firefox to block them, and it does a FINE job of it, too. I recently reinstalled my gaming machine, haven't installed ABP in FF on there yet and was absolutely astounded at the number of cookies the ads wanted to set (all DENIED of course).
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