Police,To PROTECT & SERVE OR SOMETHING ELSE?

[alex51]

Does anyone else feel it disturbing that those sworn to protect and serve are the very people most apt to violate your civil & constitutional rights? I see an alarmingly high % of police who badger,intimidate and out right lie to make an arrest.Military type attire,over zealous and way too aggressive behaviors.
Could it be because the economy has taken a dump so they fear layoffs so they try to prove their worth by increasing the amount of arrest,tickets,like a revenue generator?
I personally have lost a great deal of respect for police in my community which has a population of less than 6,000, in the middle of nowhere, so I can only imagine what it's like in larger cities.Odd though, the few thefts,break ins etc.never get solved or even heard of again after they're reported in the weekly newspaper.It's a bit unusual that we have 14 pd.officers now,we had 6 for the 1st 20 or so yr's living here and if the truth be known there was much more serious crime going on then than now.My best advice is know your rights and know who & what you're voting for.

 

[OstrichSaK]

Cool, next time you're being victimized don't dial 911. Fix it yourself. Might want to get a gun.

 

[mpw]

If you see an officer doing something out of order then complain; people don't complain enough in my experience, and without the complaints the authorities won't act to improve the quality of officers.

Of course there has to be quality people willing to do the job, and that's becoming a problem, as people seem to be dumbing down in general, and those quality candidates don't want to work in communities that don't want to help themselves. I don't blame them either, I wouldn't join the force in my area, 'cause the present crop of officers have destroyed all the respect that the community had in the uniform, people don't feel they can trust the Police, so they become the enemy, and only get called upon reluctantly at the last minute.

 

[tommy_ed]

in my experience, evertime you NEED a police officer, they do nothing to help you. A good friend of mine had an ATV stolen from him and knew who stole it. The sheriff came out and he told him who the guy was, the ATV was sitting in his yard for god sakes. The sheriff refused to even go talk to the guy, just took a report and left. Another couple of friends were assaulted by a bunch of guys in town, one of them was being beaten pretty badly and the other managed to get away and run to the speedway (where city cops seem to congregate for some reason), explained that his friend was being assaulted by four guys and he needed help... one of the cops says "sounds like you better get a baseball bat!" they never even walked down the street.... police are overpaid meter maids. they would rather fine the average joe going ten mph over the limit on his way to work than actually solve a crime or help someone. It's pathetic and very annoying.

 

[Crude]

I don't think it's right when a cop violates the rights of innocent civilians. I don't care if their job is on three line, they made a choice and they did so with specialized training. That said I'd rather they err on the side of being too lenient with criminals. The problem with my local police force is that our local government is intent on using police to subsidize income and not for actual crime investigation.

Because there are some many cases of bad officers lately it's time they keep cameras on their person.

YouTube - Cato Institute - Cops on Camera

 

[OstrichSaK]

in my experience, evertime you NEED a police officer, they do nothing to help you. A good friend of mine had an ATV stolen from him and knew who stole it. The sheriff came out and he told him who the guy was, the ATV was sitting in his yard for god sakes. The sheriff refused to even go talk to the guy, just took a report and left. Another couple of friends were assaulted by a bunch of guys in town, one of them was being beaten pretty badly and the other managed to get away and run to the speedway (where city cops seem to congregate for some reason), explained that his friend was being assaulted by four guys and he needed help... one of the cops says "sounds like you better get a baseball bat!" they never even walked down the street.... police are overpaid meter maids. they would rather fine the average joe going ten mph over the limit on his way to work than actually solve a crime or help someone. It's pathetic and very annoying.

Your opinion of police officers is VERY narrow minded and serves only to prove your own ignorance. There are PLENTY of Law Enforcement Officers out there who simply refuse to do traffic stops for speeding and petty crimes but are the first one on the scene of a bank robbery in progress or assault in progress. These generally aren't the same police officers you see who pull people over for going 6mph over and being dicks because they were picked on in high school. More then likely you have never seen a 'good cop' and you should really be thankful that you haven't had to. Don't like being harassed by cops when you get pulled over? Don't speed. It always amazes me how people break the law then bitch when they get punished for it like it's somehow the cop's fault they broke the law.

 

[OstrichSaK]

I don't think it's right when a cop violates the rights of innocent civilians.

I couldn't agree more.

That said I'd rather they err on the side of being too lenient with criminals.

This I don't understand. Please elaborate on why you think that police officers should handle CRIMINALS with kid gloves and be overly nice. Seems like a recipe for disaster to me.

The problem with my local police force is that our local government is intent on using police to subsidize income and not for actual crime investigation.

That sounds like an issue that should he taken up with voting if your local government is corrupt. The problem is that most people's expectations of what it is cops are supposed to do is misunderstood.

Because there are some many cases of bad officers lately it's time they keep cameras on their person.

YouTube - Cato Institute - Cops on Camera

I agree that if a law enforcement officer is doing his duty in a public setting he/she shouldn't be worried about being filmed. It is public domain after all and if my wife is walking the streets and has a 'wardrobe malfunction' of some sort and someone captures it on film guess what.. it occurred in public and if it ends up on the internet and I have little to no recourse.

The new trend towards making filming an officer of the law illegal even when in a public setting is unsettling and should be fought by voting citizens at every level. Seems rather unfair when they can film us but we can't film them. Why is that? How is it fair for them but not civilians? That just seems wrong to me but it's happening and most people are quick to roll over and allow it. Whatever reason government entities use to record the civilian population also applies in the reverse and is just as valid.

 

[Familyguy1]

So is it illegal for me to have a hidden video/audio camera in my car? Is it also illegal for me to have a radar detector in my car?

With todays technologies, every law enforcement officer needs to have a small camera attached to their person that automatically uploads the feed to a server(so no one can tamper with the video).

I am really surprised at how much we do not have CCTV cameras like other countries do, This can help with the lowering of crime. I have a security system(audio/video) in my house. For me it has been a Godsend. One time two robbers broke into our house when we were gone on a trip. We came home, called the police and reported it and gave them the video and audio and a week later the two were caught in the middle of another home invasion. They gave us the video back of course, but there are a lot of reasonable and necessary places where CCTVs would be of great help.

It seems now that there are buildings that have cameras that are not even turned on. Why? I just dont get it, to make it look like there is a camera? To provide a false sense of security?

CCTV has helped Britain a lot with catching numerous incidents on tape. Go onto Youtube and type in CCTV incidents and you will get thousands.

Some say that Britain is now like a NightWatchmen state, but the US could take from their example and install cameras where it is highly needed.

 

[Isthmus]

I don't know. Most cops are decent people, but at the end of the day they are primarily people. The nature of their jobs gives them (especially patrolmen) a lot of leeway, which a great many take advantage of and treat as a perk of the job, whether it is legal or not. I'm not making a value judgment, it just is what it is.

For example, there are a couple of delis near my house that are popular with the precincts in the area and the local prison staff. At any time of the day, you will find cop cars illegally parked, double parked, blocking crosswalks or parked at hydrants, while their occupants go eat. Who do the locals get to complain to? around town, especially around jails, courthouses and precincts, it is once again the same, cops parking illegally on sidewalks, medians and the like. The city turns a blind eye and no one enforces it because those doing the enforcing are the ones breaking the law.

In the great scheme of things this is minor stuff, but it does quickly get out of hand when a lot of people are abusing it. As I said though most cops are decent people.

 

[tommy_ed]

Your opinion of police officers is VERY narrow minded and serves only to prove your own ignorance. There are PLENTY of Law Enforcement Officers out there who simply refuse to do traffic stops for speeding and petty crimes but are the first one on the scene of a bank robbery in progress or assault in progress. These generally aren't the same police officers you see who pull people over for going 6mph over and being dicks because they were picked on in high school. More then likely you have never seen a 'good cop' and you should really be thankful that you haven't had to. Don't like being harassed by cops when you get pulled over? Don't speed. It always amazes me how people break the law then bitch when they get punished for it like it's somehow the cop's fault they broke the law.

Ignorant is thinking a cop who refuses to pull anyone over for traffic infractions still has a job. I havent got a ticket in over two years, so I'm not saying that because I'm bitter or anything. So you're saying there are two different types of officers, one dept. that watches traffic, and others that drive around doing nothing until someone robs a bank? I wonder if their pay grades are different? I've met plenty of cool cops but rarely do I come accross one that goes out of his/her way to help someone. I once was on the side of the highway with a flat tire, trying to change it with the little car jack. A cop pulls in behind me. Doesn't offer to help, doesn't say anything to me, just starts looking all through my car. Protect and serve? My ass....

 

[mkzbdroid]

Your opinion of police officers is VERY narrow minded and serves only to prove your own ignorance. There are PLENTY of Law Enforcement Officers out there who simply refuse to do traffic stops for speeding and petty crimes but are the first one on the scene of a bank robbery in progress or assault in progress. These generally aren't the same police officers you see who pull people over for going 6mph over and being dicks because they were picked on in high school. More then likely you have never seen a 'good cop' and you should really be thankful that you haven't had to. Don't like being harassed by cops when you get pulled over? Don't speed. It always amazes me how people break the law then bitch when they get punished for it like it's somehow the cop's fault they broke the law.

lmao dude what world are you living in? all cops write tickets...you cant sit here and logically assume some dont....are tickets not a consequence for violating a law?...I agree you shouldnt break the law...and in reality the cops in my opinion are just a janitorial service...store gets robbed they take a report, someone gets shot they clean up the blood, someone breaks in my house they come see what they took....as far as that goes....he does have a point....99% of the time cops wont be at the incident at that EXACT moment.good thing 2nd amendment gives me my right to have a shotgun at home and carry a .38 with a permit at all times god hope I dont ever need to use them

 

[mkzbdroid]

Cool, next time you're being victimized don't dial 911. Fix it yourself. Might want to get a gun.

Wise words

 

[OstrichSaK]

So is it illegal for me to have a hidden video/audio camera in my car? Is it also illegal for me to have a radar detector in my car?

Check with your local laws because it varies from city to city and state to state.

 

[wiretap]

So is it illegal for me to have a hidden video/audio camera in my car? Is it also illegal for me to have a radar detector in my car?

With todays technologies, every law enforcement officer needs to have a small camera attached to their person that automatically uploads the feed to a server(so no one can tamper with the video).

I am really surprised at how much we do not have CCTV cameras like other countries do, This can help with the lowering of crime. I have a security system(audio/video) in my house. For me it has been a Godsend. One time two robbers broke into our house when we were gone on a trip. We came home, called the police and reported it and gave them the video and audio and a week later the two were caught in the middle of another home invasion. They gave us the video back of course, but there are a lot of reasonable and necessary places where CCTVs would be of great help.

It seems now that there are buildings that have cameras that are not even turned on. Why? I just dont get it, to make it look like there is a camera? To provide a false sense of security?

CCTV has helped Britain a lot with catching numerous incidents on tape. Go onto Youtube and type in CCTV incidents and you will get thousands.

Some say that Britain is now like a NightWatchmen state, but the US could take from their example and install cameras where it is highly needed.

heh, uploads to a server so it can't be tampered with. Who do you think is in control?

Be careful what you wish for if you want a CCTV track and control grid.
1. Cameras don't provide security.
2. 1984 wasn't meant to be an instruction manual.

 

[JohnCL]

Don't like being harassed by cops when you get pulled over? Don't speed.

and....

1) Don't argue
2) Don't interrupt
3) Don't say "I wasn't doing anything" because you were in reality
4) Don't name drop important people that you may know

need I go on???

Also, most bigger cities have a dedicated traffic units that handle just that, but all patrol vehicles can pull you over for any violation. Also, all bigger cities have cameras in the patrol vehicles for officer and citizen safety. Some upload via hotspots, and some are DVD based in locked vaults in the trunk.

Bottom line is LEO's are humans too and there are likely to be bad ones in the bunch. Trust me when I say that there are great cops in the field that would have responded to everything that was reported in the posts above. There are lazy folks in every aspect of life, and police work is no different. A police report = time in court to an officer and some simply can't be bothered.

 

[Crude]

I couldn't agree more.



This I don't understand. Please elaborate on why you think that police officers should handle CRIMINALS with kid gloves and be overly nice. Seems like a recipe for disaster to me.



That sounds like an issue that should he taken up with voting if your local government is corrupt. The problem is that most people's expectations of what it is cops are supposed to do is misunderstood.



I agree that if a law enforcement officer is doing his duty in a public setting he/she shouldn't be worried about being filmed. It is public domain after all and if my wife is walking the streets and has a 'wardrobe malfunction' of some sort and someone captures it on film guess what.. it occurred in public and if it ends up on the internet and I have little to no recourse.

The new trend towards making filming an officer of the law illegal even when in a public setting is unsettling and should be fought by voting citizens at every level. Seems rather unfair when they can film us but we can't film them. Why is that? How is it fair for them but not civilians? That just seems wrong to me but it's happening and most people are quick to roll over and allow it. Whatever reason government entities use to record the civilian population also applies in the reverse and is just as valid.

Well, I don't think criminals should be treated "with kid gloves". Give em hell....stupid games/stupid prizes etc. I do believe they should err on the side of caution towards an innocent persons rights. Once it's established that the person in question IS the criminal then all bets are off. But you can't detain some one for an hour while you try to figure out if that person is the bank robber just because he looks the same and drives the same car. ( I don't know if that had happened I'm just creating an example)

Aside from that almost every interaction I've had with cops has a huge wtf written all over it. I just want a way to keep them accountable and maybe it will reduce the wtf moments. I carry a gun to protect against criminals. I carry a camera to protect against officers...and that's the sad part.

Oh and to hell with cctv.

 

[hood420]

I've not had good experiences with the police. I've given them the benefit of the doubt in the past, but after being harassed and treated like shit a few times I've decided to give them the bare minimum courtesy. They will no longer search my car/house without a warrant or get any answers to their questions besides those required by law.

I'd feel a lot better if I had a camera in my car, when I can afford it I'll surely have one.

 

[Slug]

Please keep comments within the boundaries of the Forum Rules. I also suggest anyone new to this area of AF read the P&CA Guidelines post to ensure that they understand the scope of this particular forum.

 

[copestag]

just some info for those who complain about ticket writers.......

speeding is the cause for 30% of fatal auto accidents... auto accidents are the leading cause of death for people under the age of 34

so when you get busted speeding you should learn your lesson and learn to drive within the law.....as for "quotas" or departments who devote a lot of resources to writing tickets....... they are just doing their jobs and making some money for the city in the process.... Im sure they would much rather you slow down...... most LEOs hate traffic stops...... everytime they approach a car they put their life at risk..... they dont know if youre sitting there with a gun waiting for them to walk up

as for LEOs abusing their position...... every person who has ever had a job with some type of authority has abused it at one time or another..... this goes from the shift manager at McDonalds all the way to POTUS

the only difference is unlike other jobs that deal with the public.... LEOs only deal with criminals in their job....... they are bombarded day after day with idiots who think "the man" is out to stick it to em

sure there are plenty of "bad cops".......... there are plenty of bad school teachers too.....and bad priests...... and bad McD's managers........ etc etc

if you are a criminal then for a LEO to be anything better than rude is a courtesy to you....... you deserve to be treated no better than the way you act..... regardless of whether you are a murderer or a speeder

 

[mpw]

...speeding is the cause for 30% of fatal auto accidents...

THat may be true in the US, but UK figures put it at around 5%(Government figures for 2005), just pointing out that speeding isn't that big a problem in the UK, yet the Police still seem to relish the easy-money of a traffic stop.

...they are just doing their jobs and making some money for the city in the process...

I'm not sure anybody disagrees with this either, but it's the LEO's attitude when making the stops that bothers me more than the stop itself.

...as for LEOs abusing their position...... every person who has ever had a job with some type of authority has abused it at one time or another...

Speak for yourself; I've never abused the authority of any position I've ever held, yet I've seen this with the Police practically every time I've had to deal with them.

...the only difference is unlike other jobs that deal with the public.... LEOs only deal with criminals in their job...

Again, not true; I've dealt with the Police on more than one occasion as a victim, and received the same poor standards, and poor treatment from the officers, whether through incompetence or dereliction of duty.

As an organisation I think the Police have a problem in that quality candidates are put off by the inclusion within the ranks of some real bad apples; the force would do well I think to publicly expel those officers, and be seen to be cleaning up their act. But it's still going to take a lot longer to earn trust and respect lost back.

 

[alex51]

To limit, curtail or stop poor police behaviors the best tools available are1) to stay within the law at all times(2)To report all abuses to dept.superiors/mayor(3)record with video/audio if possible, when in public it's legal with few exceptions (4) know your rights and respectfully decline anything the officer wants that you have a legal right to object to such as a search of your person or property(without a warrant),searches are never for your benefit unless you call them,and maybe not even then.A search can afford corrupt cops the ideal opportunity to plant something illegal on your person or property/residency(5)the 2 best tools we have are a camera (or ph.with) and the good use of our brainpower.

 

[alex51]

So is it illegal for me to have a hidden video/audio camera in my car? Is it also illegal for me to have a radar detector in my car?

With todays technologies, every law enforcement officer needs to have a small camera attached to their person that automatically uploads the feed to a server(so no one can tamper with the video).

I am really surprised at how much we do not have CCTV cameras like other countries do, This can help with the lowering of crime. I have a security system(audio/video) in my house. For me it has been a Godsend. One time two robbers broke into our house when we were gone on a trip. We came home, called the police and reported it and gave them the video and audio and a week later the two were caught in the middle of another home invasion. They gave us the video back of course, but there are a lot of reasonable and necessary places where CCTVs would be of great help.

It seems now that there are buildings that have cameras that are not even turned on. Why? I just dont get it, to make it look like there is a camera? To provide a false sense of security?

CCTV has helped Britain a lot with catching numerous incidents on tape. Go onto Youtube and type in CCTV incidents and you will get thousands.

Some say that Britain is now like a NightWatchmen state, but the US could take from their example and install cameras where it is highly needed.

There are no law restricting camera video/audio hidden or otherwise in a car in any state.How could it be,most cell ph's have cameras,video & audio.I'm assuming you're not holding it up to your eye while trying to drive your car.Radar detector use varies st. by st..Hell making your fav.alky. beverage isn't illegal,selling it is though.The point I'm trying to make is ownership of something is rarely the issue, how it's used maybe!

 

[OstrichSaK]

There are no law restricting camera video/audio hidden or otherwise in a car in any state.

The conversation pertains to the use of video camera in relation to officers of the law in which case you are very wrong and potentially giving out information on the internet that could result in serious charges for anyone reading your advice depending on the laws where they reside.

 

[alex51]

The conversation pertains to the use of video camera in relation to officers of the law in which case you are very wrong and potentially giving out information on the internet that could result in serious charges for anyone reading your advice depending on the laws where they reside.

If you want to be 100% specific I'll give you that but I think you missed the point I was trying to make about ownership vs how it's used,I could have been more clear of what that point intent was.
There are 3 states having specific laws about video recording police(Illinois,Maryland and one I don't recall) and Maryland also added wiretap lang.,all of which are currently being challenged as unconstitutional in their respective states Supreme Courts.Another thread would be a better place for that subject since it's a subject in it's self!
Since we are the subject of commenting on what advice should be given,your reply to my original post(# 2 permalink) which stated Cool, next time you are being victimized don't call 911.Fix it yourself.Might want to get a gun.I ask you now how good of advice is that?

 

[OstrichSaK]

Since we are the subject of commenting on what advice should be given,your reply to my original post(# 2 permalink) which stated Cool, next time you are being victimized don't call 911.Fix it yourself.Might want to get a gun.I ask you now how good of advice is that?

I think it's pretty sound advice if they truely hates all police officers. I mean, if my life were in danger why in the hell would I pick up the phone to call the one person that I hate in life? If you are going to be ignorant enough to make a blanket statement about every individual of a specific profession then you may want to arm yourself since you have nobody to call upon in your time of need. That or the OP was simply being immature & ignorant & will still dial 911 at the first signs of danger hoping the brave man or woman who arrives to 'make everything right' doesn't know of his secret hate for that responder even though he knows nothing of the individual... just the uniform/badge they wear which, strangely enough, is the ONLY reason they're there in the first place. Can you smell the irony?

So, if the OP hates them so much... forget the # for 911 and stop breaking the law. Seems like the worlds easiest fix evar!