Anyone boycotting the TSA scanners tomorrow?

[paintmoonsred]

This issue is really interesting to me because it raises a lot of broader questions, for example:

Why do so many people accept this new policy out-of-hand? More odd is people's ignorance of the full-palm body pat-downs.

And sure, I am getting the "privilege" of flying. Okay, fine. But what about the privilege of going to a crowded public event, a popular tourist venue, etc etc. Why is it that I can go to these places and no one is going to grab at me with open palms or have a look-see at my naked body before I go in? I just see a big discrepancy with regard to TSA policies that makes it look a LOT like they are having a power-play, and I am fascinated by the social response to the issue. Then again, a lot of Americans have seemed to be willing to accept what they are told is best, and defend it without a whole lot of evidence for a while.

As far as the airlines and TSA not caring whether people fly- if enough people are pissed about this to effect bottom line, they WILL care.

 

[batgeek]

The education system is just a failure in this country.

don't blame the system. blame the individual.

 

[mike114]

Could someone please explain which specific rights, freedoms and liberties are being usurped, abrogated or violated by passing through security scanning prior to boarding an aircraft?

How about this one?

The 4th Amendment to the US Constitution

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

Did that clear things up for you?

 

[AndyLL]

This is so funny.

When these machines were rolled out in late 2007 it was the aclu that was screaming about them and the conservatives making statements like 'flying is not a right' so suck it up.

These days it seems its the conservatives screaming about them.

Kinda funny... I wonder what has changed

My complaint is that they don't make us any safer then what we've already have and diverted money from technologies that could make us safer.

That said I would guess the heightened searches are because of the holidays and because the spooks have heard rumblings of threatened attacks.

And the 'nakedness' of the images are grossly overstated... many of the images you seen on the internet are faked. ( hard to believe I know)

The leaked 35000 images were from a courthouse not TSA and the quality sucked. (gizmodo has them)

 

[AndyLL]

How about this one?

The 4th Amendment to the US Constitution

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

Did that clear things up for you?

I don't like the scanners because they are a waste of money and don't make us safer.

However... how is this a violation of the 4th Admendment while the metal detectors are not?

 

[mike114]

I don't like the scanners because they are a waste of money and don't make us safer.

However... how is this a violation of the 4th Admendment while the metal detectors are not?

2 reasons:

1 - Metal detectors don't produce an image of a naked body
2 - No one is groping you while you are walking through a metal detector

And I also agree with you on your 1st point, these scanners will not make any of us any safer.

 

[mike114]

And where is the ACLU on this? Their overwhelming silence is deafening.

 

[Frisco]

Airport and airline security used to be about hijackings, some time back. It seems like every week we were reading about some kook forcing a jet to Havana or where ever. That was decades ago, when it was at its peak.

Back then I was thinking that at some point we're going to have to find some way to examine luggage and passengers more thoroughly, or every nut-case on Earth will get a gun and nobody will feel safe flying.

It got worse than that; now it's about radical Moslems wanting to destroy the U.S. and western civilization in general.

X-ray me, pat me down all you want; I'll feel embarrassed and intruded upon, but I find that preferable to having to go to a morgue to identify body parts of my loved ones and friends following an improvised explosive device event on an airliner at high altitude.

 

[IOWA]

Did. I mention the scanners don't even detect bombs?

Oh right, I did.

 

[93civiccpe]

I don't know if it has been mentioned but the original designers and manufacturers of the full body scanners wrote an algorithm which would automatically blur the private areas of a male/female but still show if they were smuggling anything in that area. They forsaw this problem and wrote a piece of code to handle it. The problem is that the TSA made the decision not to use that piece of code, opting to be able to see everything. Plain and simply, someone from PR should have forseen this crapstorm and let them know in advance that they might want to stick with the algorithm that let people keep their dignity/privacy intact.

 

[NYCHitman1]

And where is the ACLU on this? Their overwhelming silence is deafening.

I don't know about you but I want Oprah's opinion. Lmfao!

 

[A.Nonymous]

Really? Every poll I've seen shows that the public are in favor of the new search procedures.

November, 2010

This poll was slightly over 1,200 "frequent fly-ers" polled.

To be fair, many of those polls are dated a few weeks ago. I'd be curious what public opinion is now.

 

[byteware]

Right, I'm sure it will see a judge soon, and they'll deem it reasonable.

This attitude really disgusts me. It actually makes me angry that I protected your rights. It makes me angry that people I know and cared about are dead protecting YOUR rights.

I don't deem it unreasonable because you're choosing to fly. If you were walking down the street, and someone walked up for a search, that would be a different story. But, when all is said and done, you're coming to their turf, using their tools. If they require a search, you still have the choice of walking away.

So, you would be ok with this as a prerequisite to drive into a city? Since it's a choice?

You're not being forced to submit yourself to the search.

People bought these plane tickets 6 months ago. They spend hundreds if not thousands of dollars on these trips. These "enhanced" pat downs were not something they planned on. Yes, they could give up those thousands of dollars and never plan on seeing their loved ones again... but they shouldn't HAVE to do that in order to have the rights that the constitution guarantees them.

No, you obviously have a self entitlement issue. There are many jobs in which flying is not required.

Self-entitlement issue? I have a Constitution entitlement issue.

And In case you haven't noticed, there aren't many jobs available AT ALL, whether they require flying or not.

Seriously, you're bringing up people fighting for our rights, again? Look, we don't think it's a violation of any of our rights. We accept that in order to fly, a privilege, we must submit to a search. It's that simple.

Which is WHY YOU DON'T DESERVE THE RIGHTS THAT HAVE BEEN GIVEN TO YOU. Strip Search without probable cause is an unreasonable search. Period. It's not really debatable.

Yeah, because there are so many Well, by flying, you're potentially giving permission to be searched. If not, you don't fly, get over it.[/Quote]

I won't fly. Ever. Period. End of discussion. My rights are my rights. I would die before I gave them up. However, I will no longer put my life on the line for the rights of the general public. Disgusting.

Really? Thank you for serving, but no thank you. I'd rather you not serve if you're going to throw it in our face every other day.

No, don't you dare thank me. By giving up your rights, you spit in my face. You spit on the sacrifices made by me and every other person who has ever put their life on the line for your rights.

Really? I used to work in an ER, right down the hall from Radiology. They never wore any protection, other than a small button-like device to tell how much radiation they've been subjected to.

Then you are either lying, or blind. To be in the room with my child being X-rayed, I was required to wear a lead apron. The X-Ray tech, operated in a shielded room.

If you're coming to my house, but I tell you you can't come in unless you allow me to search you, it's either (a) let me search and you come in or (b) you turn around and go home.

I don't have a right to go to your house. I have a right to travel about the country. That's been established by the Supreme Court time and time again.

You still have the choice not to fly.

You have the choice not to drive. You would not allow these searches of your person simply for driving.

You have the choice not to eat at Taco Bell. You wouldn't allow these search of your person simply for deciding to eat at Taco Bell.

This is probably the saddest rationalization I've ever heard. It's really really pathetic. You can't think of any other justification.

The Constitution guarantees protection from searches like these WITHOUT PROBABLE CAUSE. And flying isn't probable cause.

There is no right to fly. It's an inconvenience to not fly, but not even close to a violation of your rights.

My God... seriously? THIS is your argument.

You have a right to purchase any commodity that you can afford. You have a right to purchase and partake in any commodity you can afford to purchase. AT no point does participating in an economic function as buying the services of an air transport provider give up your right to be free of unreasonable searches without probable cause.

No one is forcing you to fly! This country operated for years without planes, get over yourself.

And it operated for centuries without cars. You are not forced to drive. You don't have to drive. It is a choice to drive. That's not justification for seeing these at the Driver's license office.

Translation: "There is no point in arguing this matter because I agree with it, but they feel a sense of entitlement, and how dare they(!) search me! I'm an American!"

More along the lines of How dare they violate my constitutional rights.

Seriously disgusted.

 

[byteware]

I don't get why people are so sensative about this. While it's sorta invading peoples personal privacey quit being so lame . So what if a TSA person sees you naked or feels you up. Deal with it....

So what if the naked picture of your daughter is released with a FOIA request. Deal with it. I mean, every six year old girl is posting naked pictures of themselves right? Why should we care if people are distributing pictures of our naked 6 year old daughters? Right?

I forgot to pay a speeding ticket and ended up getting arrested for it. When I was booked they made me strip down , lift my sack and spread my cheeks. I've never had more then moving violations in my life. But whatever they were doing my job and really didn't care about it at the time. Shit happens

You have just compared being an arrested criminal (albeit minor) with simply making the choice to travel by air.

Maybe that realization will help you understand why we are upset. Criminals lose many of their rights when they are arrested (freedom of movement, etc...) That doesn't mean that is appropriate for the general public.

 

[NYCHitman1]

This attitude really disgusts me. It actually makes me angry that I protected your rights. It makes me angry that people I know and cared about are dead protecting YOUR rights.

It kinda makes me angry that you have to bring it up in each one of your posts. We get it, you served your country to protect our rights. I commend you for your service and all but that doesn't give you the right to keep rubbing it in our faces. Getting tired of your holier-than-thou nonsense.

 

[byteware]

protest if you want but if i have to wait in line extra long tomorrow because some people are refusing scans or a pat down making a big scene i will be pissed

No offense, but GOOD. I wish that enough disruption occurred on a daily basis that they would stop the practice of routinely violating the rights of passengers.

Really? Every poll I've seen shows that the public are in favor of the new search procedures.

Poll: Most fliers bothered or angered by TSA pat-downs - USATODAY.com

Poll over the weekend.

57% bothered or angry about pat downs.

42% bothered or angry about imaging.

This actually makes me feel a bit better. I'm hoping that people weren't really aware of what was happening, and as the public realizes what is going on they will assert their constitutionally protected rights.

I just couldn't believe all that I was reading about Americans giving up their rights without a fight.

 

[byteware]

It kinda makes me angry that you have to bring it up in each one of your posts. We get it, you served your country to protect our rights. I commend you for your service and all but that doesn't give you the right to keep rubbing it in our faces. Getting tired of your holier-than-thou nonsense.

I don't really care how it makes you feel that I'm angry and pissed that I protected the rights of people who didn't want them.

I don't really care that it makes you angry that friends of mine died protecting the rights of people who don't want them. Their sacrifice was pointless if the public is just going to give away what they died protecting, and yes that pisses me off more than you could possibly EVER understand.

I'm so pissed at the idea that I'm gritting my teeth every time I read this thread and every time I respond. (To the point where my jaw hurts).

 

[byteware]

To be fair, many of those polls are dated a few weeks ago. I'd be curious what public opinion is now.

Poll: Most fliers bothered or angered by TSA pat-downs - USATODAY.com

57% not ok with pat downs

42% not ok with imagers

This is a good thing. With half the country against these practices, hopefully the TSA will bow to public pressure so we can end this practice now instead of after it's been drug through the courts.

 

[NYCHitman1]

I don't really care how it makes you feel that I'm angry and pissed that I protected the rights of people who didn't want them.

I don't really care that it makes you angry that friends of mine died protecting the rights of people who don't want them. Their sacrifice was pointless if the public is just going to give away what they died protecting, and yes that pisses me off more than you could possibly EVER understand.

I'm so pissed at the idea that I'm gritting my teeth every time I read this thread and every time I respond. (To the point where my jaw hurts).

You act like you are the only person who has friends in the military that have suffered injuries or fatalities. If it pisses you off that much, stop posting.

 

[byteware]

You act like you are the only person who has friends in the military that have suffered injuries or fatalities. If it pisses you off that much, stop posting.

I don't act like I'm the only person who's buried people serving this country.

Whether you like it or not THEY died for your rights. When you give them up, you spit on their sacrifice. You tell them, "Thanks, but no thanks". Instead of honoring them by fighting for your rights, you dishonor them by giving them up like cowards.

I don't act like I'm the only person who's buried people serving this country.

I act pissed that people protected by those I've buried give up what my friends died for like it was nothing.

 

[NYCHitman1]

I don't act like I'm the only person who's buried people serving this country.

Whether you like it or not THEY died for your rights. When you give them up, you spit on their sacrifice. You tell them, "Thanks, but no thanks". Instead of honoring them by fighting for your rights, you dishonor them by giving them up like cowards.

I don't act like I'm the only person who's buried people serving this country.

I act pissed that people protected by those I've buried give up what my friends died for like it was nothing.

They can do as they wish. It is optional after all. Just like it was your decision to enlist (unless you were drafted to Nam or something, of course). You just sound like a whiner to me.

 

[IOWA]

They can do as they wish. It is optional after all. Just like it was your decision to enlist (unless you were drafted to Nam or something, of course). You just sound like a whiner to me.

It's this attitude that's ruining the world.

"It doesn't affect me, so **** it"


Bullshit. It DOES affect you. Maybe not in this moment, but it WILL affect you.

Anyone who doesn't want to stand up for their rights doesn't deserve to be called an American. At least that's how I feel.

 

[A.Nonymous]

They came for the Communists and I said nothing because I wasn't a Communist.

They came for the Jews and I said nothing because I wasn't a Jew.

They came for the Russians and I said nothing because I wasn't a Russian.

They came for me and there was no one left to speak up for me.

 

[NYCHitman1]

It's this attitude that's ruining the world.

"It doesn't affect me, so **** it"


Bullshit. It DOES affect you. Maybe not in this moment, but it WILL affect you.

Anyone who doesn't want to stand up for their rights doesn't deserve to be called an American. At least that's how I feel.

I've got more important things to worry about than a few millirems of radiation at an airport. Not to mention, such a low amount that wouldn't even cause me much harm unless I was constantly passing through. I travel via plane once maybe twice a year. It really doesn't affect me. I'll let the people who are screaming bloody murder about this issue handle it.

 

[Slug]

Please calm down everybody, and show some respect for other members. This thread is straying dangerously close to closure for its (and its contributors') own good.