Anyone boycotting the TSA scanners tomorrow?

[IOWA]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=X4G-0g9PRrE

"POLICE STATE - TSA, Homeland Security & Tampa Police Set Up Nazi Checkpoints At Bus Stations"

Looks like those CHOOSING to take the bus are out of luck as well. But I'm sure this is swell for you sheeple. Next up, trains. It will be a national transportation groping session.

Pretty soon your going to need to get groped to go to the grocery store. But it's your "choice".

 

[lunatic59]

Well, if there is nothing else determined by this rhetoric and diatribe, it's that cyber-bullying is alive and well on the internet.

Can somebody please close this thread permanently?

 

[IOWA]

Well, if there is nothing else determined by this rhetoric and diatribe, it's that cyber-bullying is alive and well on the internet.

Can somebody please close this thread permanently?

Cyber-bullying? Oh right, another liberal invention.


When did people become so soft and afraid they are willing to get groped, and when people point out it's wrong people actually defend it and get offended? Seriously? What kind of state is the world in when people won't even stand up for themselves. I'm thankful I will never be that pathetic that I won't stand up for what's right.

 

[mike114]

Well, if there is nothing else determined by this rhetoric and diatribe, it's that cyber-bullying is alive and well on the internet.

Can somebody please close this thread permanently?

So debating whether or not our 4th Amendments are being violated or not has now translated into cyber-bullying??? If you can't engage in debate, and unfortunately sometimes it does get a bit personal, then stay away. There are people who defend our Rights and are passionate about it.

And then calling on a mod to close the thread because it somehow offends YOU, that's pretty sad. Maybe we should do away with all debate if it rubs someone the wrong way. BTW, in your attempt to shut us down, how about examples where anyone in this thread feels threatened by the "bullies".

 

[byteware]

umm, you're saying what I just said...how am I supposed to argue with that?

Then you didn't read what I said.

I have ALL of my rights on your property. I never have the right to BE on your property. My rights don't change upon entering your property.

If I got to your house, and you touch my kids, you are going to prison. It doesn't matter WHAT you think happens to our rights when we come through the door to your house.

And coercing guests into a strip search, will get you a prison sentence (just an FYI, in case you were thinking about doing this).

 

[byteware]

If you fly the condition is you submit to a search. The consequence for not meeting the condition is not flying.

The government cannot make giving up your rights a condition for anything. Period. They don't have that authority.

Do you expect to fly with a firearm? It is your 2nd amendment right?

This is the only good argument I've seen you give for this.

It is a good argument, and a logical one. However, it is still flawed.

Your right to carry firearms, like your right to free speech, isn't an unlimited right. You can't yell fire in a crowded theater, and you can't carry firearms into a situation with a high likelihood of them being used illegally (courtrooms, airplanes).

There are, in fact, restrictions, to your 4th amendment right to be free of unreasonable search and seizure without probable cause. Emergency situations are one such restriction.

That being said, flying on an airplane meets none of the requirements for the suspension of your fourth amendment rights.

As has been stated, they are now doing this at bus stations. I expect train stations next (trains can do A LOT more damage than a bus can).


So, what... do you expect us to allow a strip search and a grope in order for us to do ANYTHING which is an optional choice? (Hint: Everything you do, from leaving your house to coming home... is a choice you make.)

 

[byteware]

Well, if there is nothing else determined by this rhetoric and diatribe, it's that cyber-bullying is alive and well on the internet.

Can somebody please close this thread permanently?

Personally, I've determined two things from reading and participating in this thread.

1) There are some people out there who really do care about their rights.

and

2) There are some people out there who would spit on the graves of everyone who died to give them those rights.


Your rights didn't appear out of thin air, and when you give them up, the "rights fairy" won't come along and just hand them back to you again. Rights are earned through blood and death. When they are gone, they will remain gone until a group of people decide it is worth their lives to get them back.

You are throwing away what people have died for, and you will complain when those rights are gone, but you won't be one of the ones who decides to give his/her life to get those rights back again.

 

[jamor]

This is all because a couple muslim extremists put a couple planes in our buildings (or president bush for the paranoid delusional borderline schizophrenics).

Looks like they've already won. They wanted us to feel and be violated and for our 'freedoms' to be stripped. The people that died was just icing on the cake. This is what they really wanted.

You really think they couldn't figure out another way to kill Americans without hijacking a plane?

Al Qaeda 2, America 0.


All they need to do is move to Mexico and then walk slowly across the border and they are American citizens with benefits.

 

[lunatic59]

So debating whether or not our 4th Amendments are being violated or not has now translated into cyber-bullying??? If you can't engage in debate, and unfortunately sometimes it does get a bit personal, then stay away. There are people who defend our Rights and are passionate about it.

And then calling on a mod to close the thread because it somehow offends YOU, that's pretty sad. Maybe we should do away with all debate if it rubs someone the wrong way. BTW, in your attempt to shut us down, how about examples where anyone in this thread feels threatened by the "bullies".

Unfortunately no one is debating anything. A small group is shouting "Rights", throwing out excerpts from the constitution as proof and insulting anyone who disagrees with them. I am tired of being told I don't understand my rights as a citizen, or wish to throw them away. I am tired of being told that if I disagree with someone ideologically I am spitting on the graves of our brave service people who have sacrificed their lives for ALL citizens (not just the ones who agree with them). I am tired of being called ignorant and uneducated because I have a different perspective on a controversial subject.

The request to close the thread has nothing to do with being threatened by all the hot air that's being spewed, but because the personal attacks are a violation of the forum rules. If there really was a reasonable intelligent debate going on, it would be a much more significant discussion. Unfortunately, it is not.

 

[byteware]

I am tired of being told I don't understand my rights as a citizen, or wish to throw them away.

You HAVE that right. Period

Either you don't understand that you have the right to be free from unreasonable search and seizure... or you are willingly throwing it away.

You decide which one of those is true, and we will only tell you the one that is true.

I am tired of being told that if I disagree with someone ideologically I am spitting on the graves of our brave service people who have sacrificed their lives for ALL citizens (not just the ones who agree with them).

This isn't ideological. You are either A) unaware of the rights that they died to give ALL of us, or B) Willing giving them away. Both of those are really disgusting, but willingly giving them away is worse.

I am tired of being called ignorant and uneducated because I have a different perspective on a controversial subject.

It's not a controversial subject... The constitution guarantees you certain rights. Period.

The request to close the thread has nothing to do with being threatened by all the hot air that's being spewed, but because the personal attacks are a violation of the forum rules. If there really was a reasonable intelligent debate going on, it would be a much more significant discussion. Unfortunately, it is not.

Every justification has been successfully (and repeatedly) refuted. The fact that you want to repeat them without being challenged on it, isn't a violation of the forum rules.



In my honest opinion, if you really understood what it took for us to have our rights protected as they are... you would never give them up without a fight.

 

[lunatic59]

You HAVE that right. Period

Either you don't understand that you have the right to be free from unreasonable search and seizure... or you are willingly throwing it away.

You decide which one of those is true, and we will only tell you the one that is true.



This isn't ideological. You are either A) unaware of the rights that they died to give ALL of us, or B) Willing giving them away. Both of those are really disgusting, but willingly giving them away is worse.



It's not a controversial subject... The constitution guarantees you certain rights. Period.



Every justification has been successfully (and repeatedly) refuted. The fact that you want to repeat them without being challenged on it, isn't a violation of the forum rules.



In my honest opinion, if you really understood what it took for us to have our rights protected as they are... you would never give them up without a fight.

Thank you. That is a perfect example of what I am talking about.

 

[byteware]

Thank you. That is a perfect example of what I am talking about.

You were talking about what... being corrected?

You haven't put forth a single argument that wasn't refuted, and yet you ignore the truth about your rights.

and we are supposed to what... feel good about that, in light of the cost of our rights?

 

[lordofthereef]

Trying to prove your point(s) be calling people names and implying they are idiots and don;t care about their country or the people that died to get them where they are will not get you far. I have been following this thread and keeping my mouth shut (for the most part). Even those people here who's opinions I agree with are resorting to calling people idiots, implying they are high school dropouts, sheep, etc. You are touting your rights, this and that, and you are verbally abusing and degrading those who do not agree with you? What on earth is the point of that?

If I had to pick a side, for the most part I would agree with those saying this is a violation of rights but I am disgusted to be on that "side" the way most of you continue to verbally degrade those you disagree with.

EDIT: I didn't quote any one (or several) person(s) because it wasn't worth my effort. Just wanted to point that out.

 

[byteware]

Trying to prove your point(s) be calling people names and implying they are idiots will not get you far. I have been following this thread and keeping my mouth shut (for the most part). Even those people here who's opinions I agree with are resorting to calling people idiots, implying they are high school dropouts, sheep, etc. You are touting your rights, this and that, and you are verbally abusing and degrading those who do not agree with you? What on earth is the point of that?

I don't call people names.

I don't call people idiots.

You are touting your rights, this and that, and you are verbally abusing and degrading those who do not agree with you? What on earth is the point of that?

When it is ok for the government to violate your rights... then it's ok for the government to violate MY rights. That's not acceptable.

Those rights were bought with blood, and once they are gone... they aren't coming back unless we go to war against our own government. That's not something anyone WANTS to do. That's not berating, that's just history.

Our rights didn't just manifest, they were fought for, died for.

People don't really seem to connect with that.

 

[hakr100]

When my holiday job as a lingerie fitter at Victoria's Secret ends, I plan to apply for a job with TSA as Groper of Pretty Girls.

 

[byteware]

When my holiday job as a lingerie fitter at Victoria's Secret ends, I plan on apply for a job with TSA as Groper of Pretty Girls.

You might find this interesting

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdXhdiDFAj0

 

[tommy_ed]

^^^ THAT... is HILARIOUS!!!! lol

and byteware I must side with you on all points.

our rights were hard earned with sacrifice, and once they are gone, they are gone. personally, I don't even think they'll be fought for again. Just take a look at the cowardice in this country today... the times and people have changed.

lunatic, as the old saying goes, if you can't take the heat get outta the kitchen! the reason this is such a heated debate is because its not an issue to be taken lightly. To me this is similar to a government official showing up at my doorstep and trying to take my guns because there's a chance I might drive around shooting people.

It reaaaallly pisses me (and others) off to see that no one will stand up for anything, especially something this important. How did we become so apathetic?

 

[OstrichSaK]

^^^ THAT... is HILARIOUS!!!! lol

and byteware I must side with you on all points.

our rights were hard earned with sacrifice, and once they are gone, they are gone. personally, I don't even think they'll be fought for again. Just take a look at the cowardice in this country today... the times and people have changed.

lunatic, as the old saying goes, if you can't take the heat get outta the kitchen! the reason this is such a heated debate is because its not an issue to be taken lightly. To me this is similar to a government official showing up at my doorstep and trying to take my guns because there's a chance I might drive around shooting people.

It reaaaallly pisses me (and others) off to see that no one will stand up for anything, especially something this important. How did we become so apathetic?

This sums up my thoughts as well. I think that petty name calling is minor compared to the discussion on the line. When it comes to all of our basic rights that many, many, MANY good people died for and someone refuses to listen to facts and just spews something they 'heard' which they believe to be true (your rights vanish on private property.... seriously?) am I supposed to compliment them? Sorry, but this is a heated topic because the more our government tramples our rights in the name of 'safety' the closer we get to a revolution, the closer we get to a tyranny, the closer we get to many, many, MANY more good people dying for this great country... you're concern is being called idiot or a sheep on an internet forum and not of your constitutional rights which were put in place in the face of persecution specifically to protect you and everyone you love from an overbearing government that are being blatantly stripped from you and everyone you love? That kind of sums it up right there if you ask me.

 

[twospirits]

All the rights discussions aside. I find it really funny that when they tested these scanners that they didn't even catch some things that were hidden. lol

Even the latest report is classified and won't be shown to the public. Seems that they are hiding something that most int he industry already know. Its a sham.
1-Companies making money off of these machines.
2-Government slowly brainwashing their citizens into believing such things are warranted. Preparing you for whats to come down the pike. (More unwarranted searches and rights taken away all in the name of security)

Did you seriously just compare flying on an airplane to the Holocaust? Credibility out the window.

Actually, I too see a somewhat small similar pattern. Only difference is that no one is being taken away in trains to be executed like they did to the Jewish citizens of Germany. Government telling its people that this is the rule of the land, not complying will take you off its land (airport), etc etc

If we were to just pull aside people only because they were profiled, I would agree with you. But to ignore the fact that a vast majority of terrorist attacks are done by Muslims, it is irresponsible not to use it as a tool. No where did I say they should be sent through a porno scanner or be felt up by a TSA agent.

And not just profile based on race or religion. How about someone with only a one way ticket? Or someone with minimal luggage yet they will be on a 10 day trip? There are many ways to profile someone. Using some logical thinking and good attention to details is not a violation of anyone's 4th Amendment rights.

Nice try in attempting to insinuate that profiling might not affect me. FYI...I'm of Portuguese descent, have black hair, a black goatee and have a darker skin complexion than most whites. Anyone looking at me can mistake me being from a ME country. Your attempt to play the hypocrisy card didn't work.

I know a few Muslims that look so white that doing the racial profiling method won't work.

As for profiling someone that has a one way ticket, with minimal luggage on a 10 day trip. I am one of those. I am a frequent flyer / mileage run nut, at times just carry a carry on bag and some of my trips are multi city with open jaw tickets or separate one way tickets. I also happen to be puerto Rican and depending on the day/light mood may look PR, Hawaiian, Indian or middle eastern.

Bottom line, it all lies in intelligence. The TSA has never once stopped a terrorist. The machines can't stop explosives (especially if they are round shaped, only sharp edges are visible), the pat downs are really intrusive. Speaking of Jewish, not for nothing, but those guys over in Israel rely on their intelligence and multiple profiling before the customer even gets to the boarding area. They laugh at what we go through.

its only gonna get worse, not better. We already lost the war on keeping our rights.

Terrorist 2, Americans 0

TS out

Edit: I'm moving this to the Politics and Current Events section since its more tuned for that area.
Israeli Airport Security (2009)

Israeli airport gives rare glimpse into security (2010)

Americans want 'Israeli' airport security

 

[lordofthereef]

I don't call people names.

I don't call people idiots.




When it is ok for the government to violate your rights... then it's ok for the government to violate MY rights. That's not acceptable.

Those rights were bought with blood, and once they are gone... they aren't coming back unless we go to war against our own government. That's not something anyone WANTS to do. That's not berating, that's just history.

Our rights didn't just manifest, they were fought for, died for.

People don't really seem to connect with that.

My only response to this is in the form of a question; why did you respond by quoting me? If you have done none of what I spoke against, then you have no reason to respond and point out that you have done none of this. In my opinions (and yes this is just an opinion), people will only respond in such a manner if they feel they were called out. I made it clear that I wasn't singling out any one person or post, yet you still make a point to tell me you are not calling anyone an idiot.

And I never said that the government has the right to take our rights away. I was simply pointing out that the way a lot of the people in this forum are going about discussing this fact is ridiculous in my opinion. I also agree that are rights were fought for and died for. That said, I don't believe that anyone has the right to make another person feel like less of a citizen just because they do not feel this is a threat to their rights, and I feel like there are people in this thread that are doing just that; touting their rights while degrading others. Just because someone doesn't feel this is not a violation of their rights does not automatically mean that they don't have the utmost respect for those that died for their rights. Hell, there are plenty of people that died within the past ten years for reasons I do not agree with. That doesn't mean I don't respect the fact that they died serving our country.

 

[IOWA]

CHILD MOLESTERS!!!, WTF?!?

Apparently TSA agents are being told that one way to handle the new groping pat downs for children is to try to make it out to be some sort of "game." This is apparently horrifying some sex abuse experts who point out that a common tactic in abuse cases is to tell the kids that they're just "playing a game." The TSA has said that the newer patdowns will not apply to children under 12, but the rules have been somewhat unclear -- leading to the statement from a TSA director, James Marchand:


"You try to make it as best you can for that child to come through. If you can come up with some kind of a game to play with a child, it makes it a lot easier."


He also said that the idea of making it a game would become a part of the TSA's training. Ken Wooden, who runs an organization to try to stop sex abuse of children was not pleased:


"How can experts working at the TSA be so incredibly misinformed and misguided to suggest that full body pat downs for children be portrayed as a game?" Wooden asked in an email. "To do so is completely contrary to what we in the sexual abuse prevention field have been trying to accomplish for the past thirty years."

TSA Told To Tell Children That Groping Them Is A Game... Horrifying Sex Abuse Experts | Techdirt

 

[Dark Jedi]

Unfortunately no one is debating anything. A small group is shouting "Rights", throwing out excerpts from the constitution as proof and insulting anyone who disagrees with them. I am tired of being told I don't understand my rights as a citizen, or wish to throw them away. I am tired of being told that if I disagree with someone ideologically I am spitting on the graves of our brave service people who have sacrificed their lives for ALL citizens (not just the ones who agree with them). I am tired of being called ignorant and uneducated because I have a different perspective on a controversial subject.

The request to close the thread has nothing to do with being threatened by all the hot air that's being spewed, but because the personal attacks are a violation of the forum rules. If there really was a reasonable intelligent debate going on, it would be a much more significant discussion. Unfortunately, it is not.

You can basically say they are infringing on your 1st amendment right of free speech.

 

[LaTuFu]

You can basically say they are infringing on your 1st amendment right of free speech.

Not really. Its a privately owned forum. 1st amendment rights do not apply within a private forum.

Congress can make no laws that restrict the right of expression. A private forum can establish whatever rules of conduct they like, including telling members what they are allowed to say or not say. You "agree" to those rules before you are allowed to sign up.

 

[A.Nonymous]

Not really. Its a privately owned forum. 1st amendment rights do not apply within a private forum.

Congress can make no laws that restrict the right of expression. A private forum can establish whatever rules of conduct they like, including telling members what they are allowed to say or not say. You "agree" to those rules before you are allowed to sign up.

Agreed. The owners of this forum could decide to banhammer anyone who mentions Apple and be perfectly within their legal rights to do so.

 

[EarlyMon]

Read the links in my sig.

Our posting rules are pretty cool - and we give a lot of latitude because we do value free speech.

But - this is resource-driven medium and for us, calling each other names or being rude is our analog of shouting "FIRE!" in a theater.

And before anyone resorts to hyperbole and points out that you can't get trampled to death on a forum - a poster's dignity can get trampled on if rude behavior is left unchecked - and the rulings limiting free speech in society weren't specific to trampling - they were specific to consequence in light of venue.

So - speaking as a mod - if we yank a post it isn't because we're private and arbitrary and we've placed ourselves above American ideals - it's because somebody just yelled the analog of fire in our theater.(*)

That is a simple concept.

And now I'd like to say a few things about our fought-for rights:

• Among them is the right to expect that others can agree to disagree with us without infringing on pursuit of happiness.
• Among them is a right that says I may not agree with what you say, but I'll die defending your right to say it.

And speaking as an individual, I'd personally like it if those points are remembered ahead of any further hyperbole.

This issue - read: TSA practices - sucks out loud.

Invective is counterproductive and hyperbole is useless. Let's promise ourselves to not add them to an already insane issue.

~~~~
(*)Exception - because we're a resource-driven venue, we come down hard on spam too. Just covering my bases.