LTE, Wimax, and HSPA+, Oh My!

[cmcollins001]

I ran across an interesting article regarding the 4G networks that are out now, and plan on coming out in the near future. Retrevo Blog about 4G


And it has raised, yet again, a question I have been pondering for a while now. It seems that although Sprint was the first to introduce 4G on their network, they decided to go with Wimax which is great...but it looks as though they have reconsidered. I was speaking with a Sprint rep the other day and asked if we were going to get 4G anytime soon and to my surprise, we already have it in some spots. The funny thing is, it's not listed on the Sprint 4G map, as a matter of fact, my entire state is not even an option to look for 4G coverage. I had to go to Sensorly to find the areas that currently had 4G. I was told by the rep that Sprint is most likely going over to the LTE 4G version and decided to just open up any tower that was 4G capable.

This leads me to my major question...Is the 4G ability of the phone a hardware thing or a software thing? Or both? If/when Sprint decides to go with the LTE version of 4G, will our phones and other Wimax phones be able to handle the conversion or will our phones be left out in the cold?

 

[EarlyMon]

WiMAX vs LTE is strictly a hardware thing.

However - updates to WiMAX may yet occur and that _could_ be a buildout thing that may be supported by software updates.

The thing the pundits overlook is that all of our 4G technologies were declared 4G by the ITU out of respect for the foot-dragging that went on getting the new specification out (and we're talking a few years here).

So, legally, those technologies can be called 4G and not be marketing hype (per the ITU) - but the really correct 4G final specification can only be met with (so far as I know) LTE Advanced or WiMAX 2 - and no one is building those out anywhere in the US.

So, yes Sprint _could_ go with LTE and we'd be left out - just as all USA 4G phone owners will be left out of a world going to LTE Advanced and WiMAX 2.

(PS - If RiverOfIce posts and contradicts me, trust her and not me on this.)

 

[cmcollins001]

Another interesting read...


Clearwire Announces Intent to Add LTE to Its Network to Accelerate Wholesale Business


Clearwire also restated its commitment to its existing 4G WiMAX network, which covers approximately 132 million people while serving 7.65 million retail and wholesale customers and an ecosystem of nearly 110 WiMAX enabled devices, including all 4G phones currently offered by Sprint. Clearwire expects to end 2011 with approximately 10 million 4G customers.

 

[Wiley_11]

Can anybody shed any light on this article from Sprint that says switching to LTE is simply a matter of a software patch?

LINK

 

[BlackDynamite]

WiMAX vs LTE is strictly a hardware thing.

However - updates to WiMAX may yet occur and that _could_ be a buildout thing that may be supported by software updates.

The thing the pundits overlook is that all of our 4G technologies were declared 4G by the ITU out of respect for the foot-dragging that went on getting the new specification out (and we're talking a few years here).

So, legally, those technologies can be called 4G and not be marketing hype (per the ITU) - but the really correct 4G final specification can only be met with (so far as I know) LTE Advanced or WiMAX 2 - and no one is building those out anywhere in the US.

So, yes Sprint _could_ go with LTE and we'd be left out - just as all USA 4G phone owners will be left out of a world going to LTE Advanced and WiMAX 2.

(PS - If RiverOfIce posts and contradicts me, trust her and not me on this.)

Clearwire is working on an LTE Advanced network that should be rolled out nationwide in the next couple of years.

Never mind. I see cmcollins001 already posted the Clearwire press release about it. I should have read the whole thread before I replied.

 

[apinkel]

Can anybody shed any light on this article from Sprint that says switching to LTE is simply a matter of a software patch?

LINK

They are saying that it's easy to switch their network towers from wimax to LTE via software update. Unfortunately the 4G radio built into the phones is wimax only... Mobile WiMAX SQN1210 SoC | WiMAX Mobile Devices | Sequans Communications

 

[mak916]

If Sprint does go to LTE, will they offer LTE and WiMAX together? Or will they go strickly with LTE?

 

[apinkel]

If Sprint does go to LTE, will they offer LTE and WiMAX together? Or will they go strickly with LTE?

I doubt that anyone can say for certain, especially given clearwire's need to improve their financial position, but I'd guess they will keep both networks operational for a number of years. Especially since they are working on upgrading their network (network vision) and in the process of doing so they are moving to a consolidated tower design that is intended to support all their different protocols and frequencies.

 

[EarlyMon]

They are saying that it's easy to switch their network towers from wimax to LTE via software update. Unfortunately the 4G radio built into the phones is wimax only... Mobile WiMAX SQN1210 SoC | WiMAX Mobile Devices | Sequans Communications

Software patch and additional card installed.

 

[Wiley_11]

Just found this article. The way I read it is nobody is left out, everybody is included. Or am I more confused than usual ?


LINK

 

[marctronixx]

Kicked this over to the Sprint forum so other 4G enabled handset users can chime in and be in the know..

additional reading:

http://androidforums.com/4g-discussion/356688-could-sprint-waiting-lte-advanced.html

http://androidforums.com/sprint/294729-dan-says-wimax-sprint-not.html

http://androidforums.com/4g-discussion/343318-wimax-vs-lte-vs-hspa.html

http://androidforums.com/4g-discussion/291504-difference-between-lte-wimax.html

http://androidforums.com/sprint/357242-sprint-about-unveil-20-billion-lte-deal-lightsquared.html

 

[RiverOfIce]

You can not do only a software upgrade, you must change the basecard, there is zero way around this. You can get wimax basecard to fake a lte signal, so you can use a lte device on a wimax network, but you can not fake a wimax chip to work on a lte network. LTE is not built that way.

If they do a basecard upgrade, the upgrade will support wimax 1-2 and lte-a. Both will use TDD, which is 100% incompatible with every lte system currently being used by usa and europe. FDD and TDD are 100% incompatible and CAN NOT be offered on the same device. In fact is not recommended to have them in the same 10 foot area. It will be semi compatible with some networks in asia.

LTE will offer ZERO network improvements. It will not increase speed, connectivity, or usability. It will offer nothing but a good way to toss a few more billions of dollars down the drain.

It is very clear that lte has won the marketing wars, which means that investors and laymen want to hear lte, regardless of its capabilities. So sprint has decided that it will keep throwing around the name too keep its service marketable.

Once again, lte will not fix or do anything to the current network. You can not use fdd, verizons and att network, with tdd, clear and sprint network. Even if you where to install two usb modules, fdd and tdd, on the same computer, they would cause soo much interference that they would become useless. The only thing that lte will do is cost sprint billions of dollars in more money to get in the same hole they are in.

fdd- Frequency Division Duplex
tdd- Time Division Duplex

old article on it
Advantages of Time Division Duplex (TDD) for Broadband Wireless in Last-Mile Applications
Ignore the switchover issues that is been fixed, so guard time is not important.

 

[cmcollins001]

I think, personally, that if Clearwire will continue to maintain and expand the wimax 4G then I'll be happy with that. The few times I was able to play with it, I was very happy with the results. I just need it to roll out over a wider area than what is currently available to make me happy and be of any real use to me. If that isn't going to be the case, then by the time LTE is up and running full bore on the Sprint network, I'll be eligible for another upgrade to the new latest and greatest 12 G, 5th Dimensional picture and video, Personal Transporter capable, Mind-reading Evo...aka...Da Bomb Diggity. This phone will be rooted out of the box and upon set up you can choose between Sense 9.0, or Cyanogen Mod 22.1, or Viper Rom 12.3 (beta) and enough hotspot capability to network a small office

 

[Flipper]

I think, personally, that if Clearwire will continue to maintain and expand the wimax 4G then I'll be happy with that. The few times I was able to play with it, I was very happy with the results. I just need it to roll out over a wider area than what is currently available to make me happy and be of any real use to me. If that isn't going to be the case, then by the time LTE is up and running full bore on the Sprint network, I'll be eligible for another upgrade to the new latest and greatest 12 G, 5th Dimensional picture and video, Personal Transporter capable, Mind-reading Evo...aka...Da Bomb Diggity. This phone will be rooted out of the box and upon set up you can choose between Sense 9.0, or Cyanogen Mod 22.1, or Viper Rom 12.3 (beta) and enough hotspot capability to network a small office

Agree. And by the time that Sprint finally DOES get an LTE network fully operational, ALL of us will be upgrading to whatever the latest and greatest out there is on Sprint (dual band LTE/Wimax Apple Iphone 8 or whatever number they're on by that point - and assuming that Sprint does get the Iphone, which in my opinion, is inevitable).

 

[evolution3d]

Agree. And by the time that Sprint finally DOES get an LTE network fully operational, ALL of us will be upgrading to whatever the latest and greatest out there is on Sprint (dual band LTE/Wimax Apple Iphone 8 or whatever number they're on by that point - and assuming that Sprint does get the Iphone, which in my opinion, is inevitable).

iPhone ........ ick ...... eeeeekkkkkk .... ughhhhhhhhh

 

[BlackDynamite]

iPhone ........ ick ...... eeeeekkkkkk .... ughhhhhhhhh

lol, agreed. If I wanted an iPhone, I'd have one. I am not waiting on Sprint to get a phone I want. They have a phone I want already. If they didn't have the phone I want, I wouldn't be with them.

 

[Flipper]

lol, agreed. If I wanted an iPhone, I'd have one. I am not waiting on Sprint to get a phone I want. They have a phone I want already. If they didn't have the phone I want, I wouldn't be with them.

Although I don't want an iPhone either, I do hope that Sprint DOES get it. The reality of the situation is, based on the earnings and gross adds that AT&T has had over the years AND the recent gross adds that flocked to Verizon due to the iPhone, you have to admit that the rest of the public DOES want the iPhone ('cause we do know people AREN'T going to AT&T for their "great" customer service or network). And if Sprint wants to remain viable as a real alternative to the average postpaid consumer, they NEED the iPhone.

As an example, I actually work for Sprint. And my sister, who's been with AT&T for 8 years or so, refuses to hop on one of my employee plans even though she's complains about AT&T's lousy network, their high prices, and lousy customer service she's received. Considering she could save about $100/month if she hopped on one of my employee plans, she still refuses to, solely because she does not want to give up her iPhone.

 

[BlackDynamite]

Although I don't want an iPhone either, I do hope that Sprint DOES get it. The reality of the situation is, based on the earnings and gross adds that AT&T has had over the years AND the recent gross adds that flocked to Verizon due to the iPhone, you have to admit that the rest of the public DOES want the iPhone ('cause we do know people AREN'T going to AT&T for their "great" customer service or network). And if Sprint wants to remain viable as a real alternative to the average postpaid consumer, they NEED the iPhone.

As an example, I actually work for Sprint. And my sister, who's been with AT&T for 8 years or so, refuses to hop on one of my employee plans even though she's complains about AT&T's lousy network, their high prices, and lousy customer service she's received. Considering she could save about $100/month if she hopped on one of my employee plans, she still refuses to, solely because she does not want to give up her iPhone.

I guess at the core of my opinion is the fact that I don't care how many customers Sprint (or AT&T, Verizon, or anyone else) has. If someone else likes AT&T, fine by me. I go with whoever has the phone I want, and I don't care how many customers that carrier has.

Just to be clear though- AT&T was the #1 carrier, and Verizon the #2 carrier, before the iPhone was released. I actually had AT&T for a while. I did not have an iPhone. I liked their 3G (which was the fastest around at that time), the simultaneous voice and data, and the ability to swap phones easily with a SIM card. AT&T kept trying to get me to buy an iPhone, but I was a WinMo guy back then.

 

[AZ FadeOut]

Hello all, with sprints new deal with lightsquared lte, what shall become of our Wimax devices? As far as i know the two technologies are not backward compatible.

 

[Jackietreehorn]

Well, the deal with Lightsquared isn't that new, and other than that they keep getting more and more chances to "study" and "correct" the interference problem, there's been pretty much nothing to suggest that they'll actually be allowed to get up and running (since everyone under the sun seems to be against it, including the aviation and military...which likely is enough alone).

But yes, it appears that if LTE was lit up tomorrow via Lightsquared, the Evo 3D wouldn't have any access to it...although nor would any Sprint phone (or any in the seemingly near future).

My guess would be that by the time it would be a big issue (as in LTE having a big footprint and usable like 3G is) you'll be on to the next (or maybe even next after that) handset.

 

[Evo2007]

Hello all, I was told by a sprint representative that with 4G lte comes out the evos wont be able to use that network because it need a different chip...and something to do with different frequencies.. what a bummer..4g was so fast where I used to live...can someone confirm this?

Thanx

 

[vanwildermu]

I've heard the same.

Sent from my HTC EVO using Tapatalk

 

[ocnbrze]

Hello all, I was told by a sprint representative that with 4G lte comes out the evos wont be able to use that network because it need a different chip...and something to do with different frequencies.. what a bummer..4g was so fast where I used to live...can someone confirm this?

Thanx

I've heard the same.

Sent from my HTC EVO using Tapatalk

believe me guys i wish that the evo would be able to use LTE but this is a hardware issue. the phone just will not have the proper radios for LTE. if you want it, you will need to get a new phone. it is the same for my evo 3d. i will not be able to get LTE on my 3vo.

 

[itiscosmo]

hi ..i believe all curremt 4 g wimax phones continue to work till 2015 under the current contract just that current 4 g wimax phones wont get the new 4 g Lte or the ad 4 g lte coming out.....still another plus is 3 g is being stepped up as well and we all benefit from that.

 

[MusicJunkie]

This makes me sad I want LTE on my phone :/