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***Official Galaxy Nexus Pre-Release speculation thread**

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So guys I was thinking with an amazing HD display, LTE, and dual core processor this thing is going to be consuming a lot of battery. I was thinking of buying a 1.5 or 2amp charger to juice this baby up.

Assume the following scenario: The SGN charges at a max rate of 1000mah. While charging I am running certain functions draining the battery at 600mah. So, under the given scenario, with a 1amp charger the battery is only charging at 400mah.

Instead if I were to use a 2amp (5V) charger with the same scenario the phone would be charging at the full rate (1amp) while running the same apps (draining at 600mah). Would the remaining 400mah be converted into heat or would it simply not be drawn? (I think it would be the latter right since the phone would only draw what it needs?) Is a charger that charges this fast safe for the phone? or will it cause internal damage?

I'm just trying to see what the fastest charger we could use would be without harming the phone. I wouldn't think the amperage would matter as long as the voltage is at a reasonable level (like 5V).

Interested in hearing your thoughs (especially EarlyMon who I believe knows the meaning of life but just won't share it with us :D).

Edit: according to EarlyMon and NKK this is a bad idea. So DON'T do this.
 
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It's a test site. In the days leading up to our Dinc release the Dinc was spotted there first. I watch it daily and search to see if the Gnex shows up. When it would go down, it meant they were updating it.

Thanks, but this is completely off topic...Not only is our taste in college football/basketball the same, along with our name, and granted it is popular, but your avy is the same background I have on my Xoom. Very very eerie...
 
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So guys I was thinking with an amazing HD display, LTE, and dual core processor this thing is going to be consuming a lot of battery. I was thinking of buying a 1.5 or 2amp charger to juice this baby up.

Assume the following scenario: The SGN charges at a max rate of 1000mah. While charging I am running certain functions draining the battery at 600mah. So, under the given scenario, with a 1amp charger the battery is only charging at 400mah.

Instead if I were to use a 2amp (5V) charger with the same scenario the phone would be charging at the full rate (1amp) while running the same apps (draining at 600mah). Would the remaining 400mah be converted into heat or would it simply not be drawn? (I think it would be the latter right since the phone would only draw what it needs?) Is a charger that charges this fast safe for the phone? or will it cause internal damage?

I'm just trying to see what the fastest charger we could use would be without harming the phone. I wouldn't think the amperage would matter as long as the voltage is at a reasonable level (like 5V).

Interested in hearing your thoughs (especially EarlyMon who I believe knows the meaning of life but just won't share it with us :D).

DO NOT DO THIS.

I will edit in an explanation in a minute--app to computer switch.


So...that was a bit dramatic. Probably all will be fine and the phone will only pull the 1A it needs. But in theory it is a horrible bad idea that will permanantly destroy your battery.

Explanation:

Your battery is made of three (basic) parts..the anode and the cathode and nonaqeous electrolyte with a Lithium salt. When you charge your battery, you apply a voltage that forces Lithium ions (Li+) to flow out of the cathode and into the anode through the electrolyte. When you discharge the cell, the exact opposite happens. That is all fine and good, except both the anode and cathode are crystalline structures. So although in a perfect cell this diffusion from one xtal structure to another happens nicely and uniformly, in reality it does not.

Imagine an xtal structure where everything is a cube, i.e. you have neat rows and columns of molecules and these are connected via chemical bonds
File:Kubisches_Kristallsystem.jpg

Note that not all xtals are this strucure, but this is the easiest to think about.

Now, to put Lithium in there, you have to have to put it in what are called interstitial spaces...the spaces in the middle of that cube. So that is where the Li+ goes. But the first layer of cubes can only hold so much lithium, and so some Li+ has to go to the interstitial spaces in second layer of cubes, etc. But to get from one interstitial space to another is not a trivial task. It requires that the xtal lattice bend and siform a bit for a tiny amount of time. That is no problem as it snaps right back to normal.

However, if you start forcing Li+ into those spaces at too quick a rate, the xtal lattice will deform so much that the energy for permanent deformation will have been reached, and it will permanently deform. You have now ruined your battery.

Most chargers that push 2A are fine...your phone will limit itself to 1A or so. But some of the chargers push 2A into a battery by upping the voltage (IIRC the iPad charger charges at ~7.2V, i.e. the proper voltage for 2 Li-Ion cells in series). The cheap ones may only go up to 6 or so V, but even that is pushing it a bit.

On a side note, when you do this your electrolyte also has a tendency to degrade (it does taht normally, but much slower). Most batteries are vented to that the gas byproducts of degradation can go out. But if you degrade so quickly that the vent cannot release pressure fast enough, the battery explodes. That is a sight to see, but only if the battery is in a glove box. :)

PS I am a Chem Eng and Physics student at good engineering school, and I worked in a MatSci lab testing new cathode xtals that had the potential to have anywhere from 4 to 12x more capacity that current xtals used. I used to make Li-Ion batteries by hand, from the synthesizing of the cathode to pressing them into a small metal case.

If you were in the DINC thread, you may remember my battery speaches. ;)


-nkk
 
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So guys I was thinking with an amazing HD display, LTE, and dual core processor this thing is going to be consuming a lot of battery. I was thinking of buying a 1.5 or 2amp charger to juice this baby up.

Assume the following scenario: The SGN charges at a max rate of 1000mah. While charging I am running certain functions draining the battery at 600mah. So, under the given scenario, with a 1amp charger the battery is only charging at 400mah.

Instead if I were to use a 2amp (5V) charger with the same scenario the phone would be charging at the full rate (1amp) while running the same apps (draining at 600mah). Would the remaining 400mah be converted into heat or would it simply not be drawn? (I think it would be the latter right since the phone would only draw what it needs?) Is a charger that charges this fast safe for the phone? or will it cause internal damage?

I'm just trying to see what the fastest charger we could use would be without harming the phone. I wouldn't think the amperage would matter as long as the voltage is at a reasonable level (like 5V).

Interested in hearing your thoughs (especially EarlyMon who I believe knows the meaning of life but just won't share it with us :D).


Always charge with the manufacturer's rated spec. I will be expecting that be anywhere from 500 mA to 1 A (aka 1000 mA) at 5V.

Also - expect a properly configured dual core to draw less power, not more.

Screen and radio - yes, bigger and badder those are, the more juice they take, with present tech seen so far.

Also - the phone doesn't run off the charger nor trickle charge. They stopped doing that, it's the sort of thing that can lead a LiIon battery to catch fire.

The battery charges, the phone runs off the battery, until it drops to around 95% (give or take) then charges back up if running on a charger.

All the while, the charging light will show green, the battery widget, 100%, when you take it off - but it's probably not. After a little bit of use, the battery indicator returns to the truth, and while many people in this scenario went from 94 to 93% in about 15 or 20 minutes - they mistakenly think they just went from 100% to 93% in 20 minutes and that the phone is crap or the battery is wrong.

That's just an idiosyncrasy of how these puppies charge and operate - all of them, including your laptop.

Oh. BTW.

42

Hope this helps! ;)
 
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I appreciate this, but none of these phones were flagship phones (except the Bionic, whose release debacle was previously noted in my pose). The X2 could be considered a flagship phone, but Verizon was already in 4G territory by then so I don't think they would consider it such.

The thunderbold was 3 months late to the game.HTC ThunderBolt specs
The Charge was 5 months from announcement to launch.
Samsung Droid Charge specs
And now that VZ/OEMs are actually able to launch on schedule, we have the RAZR and ReZound, each with more than 1 weeks notice.

There's no confirmation of the 17th, just shady looking screenshots.
There's no confirmation of the 21st, just shady looking screenshots.

THERE IS NOTHING ANYWHERE TO SUGGEST ITS IN DECEMBER (other then random speculation)

Also, this is a flagship device to you, me and the rest of us nerds on this and other blogs/forums. This is NOT a flagship device to Verizon. Expect them to treat it as such.
 
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Just curious, but has anyone seen this thing running without a live wallpaper? I probably won't use one, unless I'm showing off to my iPhone owning friends :p
Saying that, I know live wallpapers cause a small amount of lag on my thunderbolt, and even on my friend's sensation, so I was wondering if running without a live wallpaper would make things run even smoother than they already are on the gnex. It may not matter because of software optimization and hardware acceleration, but I just wondered.


Out of all the vids I've seen of the sgn I have seen it running with thar drab rainbow colored wallpaper which is not live. From all I've seen with android and ics on the sgn it seems to run just as smooth with a live paper although that is subjective. Depends on the paper I bet to an extent
 
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There's no confirmation of the 17th, just shady looking screenshots.
There's no confirmation of the 21st, just shady looking screenshots.

THERE IS NOTHING ANYWHERE TO SUGGEST ITS IN DECEMBER.

Also, this is a flagship device to you, me and the rest of us nerds on this and other blogs/forums. This is NOT a flagship device to Verizon. Expect them to treat it as such.

Actually, (unless I missed something in the last couple hours)

The 17th was confirmed to one of the site mods by what is considered a historically accurate and reliable source...
 
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I appreciate this, but none of these phones were flagship phones (except the Bionic, whose release debacle was previously noted in my pose). The X2 could be considered a flagship phone, but Verizon was already in 4G territory by then so I don't think they would consider it such.

The thunderbold was 3 months late to the game.HTC ThunderBolt specs
The Charge was 5 months from announcement to launch.
Samsung Droid Charge specs
And now that VZ/OEMs are actually able to launch on schedule, we have the RAZR and ReZound, each with more than 1 weeks notice.

The Nexus WILL NOT be considered a Flagship phone by Verizon. Make no mistake about it, Verizon does not stand to make any money off it in any way other than initial sale whereas they get not only application buys from the Rezound and Razr, but also free advertising. Not to mention, with the Nexus S, Google really had a hand in advertising and it was not nearly as hyped as the other phones carried by the carriers. The GN will be no different.
 
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DO NOT DO THIS.
I will edit in an explanation in a minute--app to computer switch.
So...that was a bit dramatic. Probably all will be fine and the phone will only pull the 1A it needs. But in theory it is a horrible bad idea that will permanantly destroy your battery.
Explanation:
Typing...
-nkk

Always charge with the manufacturer's rated spec. I will be expecting that be anywhere from 500 mA to 1 A (aka 1000 mA) at 5V.

Also - expect a properly configured dual core to draw less power, not more.
Screen and radio - yes, bigger and badder those are, the more juice they take, with present tech seen so far.
Also - the phone doesn't run off the charger nor trickle charge. They stopped doing that, it's the sort of thing that can lead a LiIon battery to catch fire.
The battery charges, the phone runs off the battery, until it drops to around 95% (give or take) then charges back up if running on a charger.
All the while, the charging light will show green, the battery widget, 100%, when you take it off - but it's probably not. After a little bit of use, the battery indicator returns to the truth, and while many people in this scenario went from 94 to 93% in about 15 or 20 minutes - they mistakenly think they just went from 100% to 93% in 20 minutes and that the phone is crap or the battery is wrong.

That's just an idiosyncrasy of how these puppies charge and operate - all of them, including your laptop.
Oh. BTW.
42
Hope this helps! ;)

Thanks!! Very nice explanation also! :)

Early, are you sure it's not 17? As in the release date which our lives practically revolve around
 
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The Nexus WILL NOT be considered a Flagship phone by Verizon. Make no mistake about it, Verizon does not stand to make any money off it in any way other than initial sale whereas they get not only application buys from the Rezound and Razr, but also free advertising. Not to mention, with the Nexus S, Google really had a hand in advertising and it was not nearly as hyped as the other phones carried by the carriers. The GN will be no different.


By that logic, the iPhone is also not a flagship phone, which I don't think is accurate.
 
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Thanks!! Very nice explanation also! :)

Early, are you sure it's not 17? As in the release date which our lives practically revolve around

Pleasure. :)

I sure wish we can get that whole misunderstanding cleared up about charging levels - so many people return phones and batteries and buy into snake oil ideas over this simple misunderstanding.

I blame the makers. Can't they just put a nice graph somewhere in our user guides with a keep-it-simple explanation?

In fact - I need to go looking for that bookmark. One of our handy members actually graphed the power (draw) as the phone charged and then was used on the charger - nice - looked like a picture of a gentle roller coaster - and that what the battery's true charge would look like if you used your phone (or keep it on, it uses itself with updates and whatnot) while on the charger.

Well, Three Shall Be The Number of The Counting and The Number of The Counting Shall Be Three, so 42/3=17 -- so you're completely safe! :) :) :)

Always glad to help! :D
 
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Thanks!! Very nice explanation also! :)

Early, are you sure it's not 17? As in the release date which our lives practically revolve around

Because I took so long to post above, I am repeating what I explained here so that everyone can see it:

So guys I was thinking with an amazing HD display, LTE, and dual core processor this thing is going to be consuming a lot of battery. I was thinking of buying a 1.5 or 2amp charger to juice this baby up.

Assume the following scenario: The SGN charges at a max rate of 1000mah. While charging I am running certain functions draining the battery at 600mah. So, under the given scenario, with a 1amp charger the battery is only charging at 400mah.

Instead if I were to use a 2amp (5V) charger with the same scenario the phone would be charging at the full rate (1amp) while running the same apps (draining at 600mah). Would the remaining 400mah be converted into heat or would it simply not be drawn? (I think it would be the latter right since the phone would only draw what it needs?) Is a charger that charges this fast safe for the phone? or will it cause internal damage?

I'm just trying to see what the fastest charger we could use would be without harming the phone. I wouldn't think the amperage would matter as long as the voltage is at a reasonable level (like 5V).

Interested in hearing your thoughs (especially EarlyMon who I believe knows the meaning of life but just won't share it with us :D).

DO NOT DO THIS.

I will edit in an explanation in a minute--app to computer switch.


So...that was a bit dramatic. Probably all will be fine and the phone will only pull the 1A it needs. But in theory it is a horrible bad idea that will permanantly destroy your battery.

Explanation:

Your battery is made of three (basic) parts..the anode and the cathode and nonaqeous electrolyte with a Lithium salt. When you charge your battery, you apply a voltage that forces Lithium ions (Li+) to flow out of the cathode and into the anode through the electrolyte. When you discharge the cell, the exact opposite happens. That is all fine and good, except both the anode and cathode are crystalline structures. So although in a perfect cell this diffusion from one xtal structure to another happens nicely and uniformly, in reality it does not.

Imagine an xtal structure where everything is a cube, i.e. you have neat rows and columns of molecules and these are connected via chemical bonds
File:Kubisches_Kristallsystem.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Kubisches_Kristallsystem.jpg

Kubisches_Kristallsystem.jpg

Note that not all xtals are this strucure, but this is the easiest to think about.

Now, to put Lithium in there, you have to have to put it in what are called interstitial spaces...the spaces in the middle of that cube. So that is where the Li+ goes. But the first layer of cubes can only hold so much lithium, and so some Li+ has to go to the interstitial spaces in second layer of cubes, etc. But to get from one interstitial space to another is not a trivial task. It requires that the xtal lattice bend and siform a bit for a tiny amount of time. That is no problem as it snaps right back to normal.

However, if you start forcing Li+ into those spaces at too quick a rate, the xtal lattice will deform so much that the energy for permanent deformation will have been reached, and it will permanently deform. You have now ruined your battery.

Most chargers that push 2A are fine...your phone will limit itself to 1A or so. But some of the chargers push 2A into a battery by upping the voltage (IIRC the iPad charger charges at ~7.2V, i.e. the proper voltage for 2 Li-Ion cells in series). The cheap ones may only go up to 6 or so V, but even that is pushing it a bit.

So...to be safe, DO NOT USE ANYTHING OTHER THAN STANDARD USB SPEC CHARGERS

On a side note, when you do this your electrolyte also has a tendency to degrade (it does taht normally, but much slower). Most batteries are vented to that the gas byproducts of degradation can go out. But if you degrade so quickly that the vent cannot release pressure fast enough, the battery explodes. That is a sight to see, but only if the battery is in a glove box. :)

PS I am a Chem Eng and Physics student at good engineering school, and I worked in a MatSci lab testing new cathode xtals that had the potential to have anywhere from 4 to 12x more capacity that current xtals used. I used to make Li-Ion batteries by hand, from the synthesizing of the cathode to pressing them into a small metal case.

If you were in the DINC thread, you may remember my battery speaches. ;)


-nkk

EDIT: Oops...looks like only ten or so posts went by. I thought I typed so long a page or two would have passed... COme on people, step on it. :p
 
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By that logic, the iPhone is also not a flagship phone, which I don't think is accurate.

It isn't. Not in sales numbers of course, but in the way it is marketed by Verizon. 99% (if not all) of advertisements for the iPhone are done by Apple with a tiny ending note of what carriers it can be found on.

Phones like the OG Droid, the Incredible, the Thunderbolt, the X, and now the RAZR all have gotten far more Verizon based advertising than the iPhone.
 
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