Help Verizon's offer to fix my Bionic problems

[rogue_slc_vzw_rep]

So you call in and there are no known reported issues from Motorola and our data consultants haven't reported an issue with the bionic. Anyone that works there will follow regular troubleshooting. The bionic is not a phone with known data issues. No one has the negative feelings about the bionic like we do the thunderbolt. THAT phone got our queue filled quickly but I and anyone I talk to on my teams in tech support rarely take calls about the bionic. If you want more done the next time you call ask to have a trouble ticket filed or a product issue form with Motorola.

Expecting any csr or ts rep to just know a few people on the internets are complaining about their bionic and wants more attention than the last customer needs a reality check. Especially when it's the first bionic call they've had all week

 

[johnlgalt]

Few? Seriously? That's suspicious. I cannot believe that, since there are blog sites, both minor and major, that have been reporting these issues for the past few months now.

 

[rogue_slc_vzw_rep]

I have no reason to lie...

 

[johnlgalt]

And don't get me wrong - I love this phone and I see a world of potential in it - other than the locked bootloader it's just about perfect, and it suits me like a second skin. However, I'm also fortunate enough that I have a near 99% uptime b/c I'm in a 3G only area. My area is supposed to be upgraded to 4G within a few months, though, and if I start having problems, you can bet your bottom dollar I'm going to be complaining - and not performing a factory reset, b/c the problem will only have started with the advent of 4G service in my area.

In fact, I'll even link to this post showing that until 4G came along, I was golden with my phone.

 

[johnlgalt]

And, conversely, if I have no issues, I'll be eating crow - and linking to this post as well lol

 

[rogue_slc_vzw_rep]

I get how annoyed people are that are having data issues but if you really think that you are calling in and we know about an issue but aren't trying to help you.. Well you are too cynical for your own good. When you call in and the rep doesn't seem to know how to help you is because there is no known issue or fix and they don't know to help you. You can call them idiots or having comprehension problems but there is probably just no known fix. Deal with that how you will but those peoples jobs are to resolve your issue and it's just as frustrating to them when they can't.

If you want something more done have then file a product issue form. When they submit that it goes to that call centers data consultants, HQ and the phones manufacturer. File a trouble ticket. These are the best ways to get problems fixed. Not by demanding a new phone.

 

[johnlgalt]

I agree with you on that - demanding a new phone is not the best way to go about getting the issue resolved, but my own experience shows hat there is some sort of a problem - I'm great in my area, but when I travel (as I did for Christmas) the issues manifested even on my phone.

Mind linking us to a product issue form site?

 

[rogue_slc_vzw_rep]

I agree with you on that - demanding a new phone is not the best way to go about getting the issue resolved, but my own experience shows hat there is some sort of a problem - I'm great in my area, but when I travel (as I did for Christmas) the issues manifested even on my phone.

Mind linking us to a product issue form site?

I don't know of an external link. it's a form that care or tech support files from their resources.

 

[johnlgalt]

OK, I'll look into it by calling them then. Thanks for the info.

 

[rogue_slc_vzw_rep]

OK, I'll look into it by calling them then. Thanks for the info.

Unfortunately it's not something most people do because by then the customer has lost patience and want something done right then that they can materialize and filling a form doesn't do it for most people but it has to happen. When I have done them in the past I eventually get all these follow up emails from people I don't know making sure a good resolution has been provided to the customer

Good luck

 

[johnlgalt]

Thanks. Good thing I am not like most people....

 

[Thom]

(I used to live in Apartments on Monroe Place, Atlanta, GA - we faced the back side of the complex, where the parking deck is - and right on the other side of the parking deck is a cell tower - so I know that location is a correct one) and still have yet to see a DL speed of over 4 Mbps.

Do you know for sure that it was a Verizon tower or one of the competitor's towers where Verizon rented space? Maybe you are being serviced by a tower that is a lot farther away?

There is no way you can continue to justify a factory reset without 1) offering the customer a way of backing up all apps and settings first so that in the even that the factory reset does not work (As in the vast majority of these cases) at least the user can be back up and running where they were prior to taking on the onus of performing a factory reset in as little as 10minutes, as opposed to having to spend hours resetting everything, and 2) eliminating the real root of the issue - the network itself..

I think the reason they do is that they still think they are dealing with a PHONE and conclude that it is NO BIG DEAL. When they get personal use of these devices and start thinking of them as VERY SMALL COMPUTERS we will start to make some headway.

(I had one of the few programming groups on a mainframe that could be supported directly without going thought the communications interface. It would be blistering fast and cheaper to support my 10 people on it then to use the slower, more expensive method used by our users. We were the systems group enhancing and maintaining the system. I chose the slower and more expensive solution for one simple reason ... the people doing the enhancements and maintenance were using exactly the same equipment as the users.)

if it is a handful of users, sure, but when your call center(s) are inundated with literally hundreds of alls per day (more like per hour) regarding the same issue on multiple phones from different carriers it's time to stop putting the onus on the users.

It defies logic and must be driven by some other reason ... like ... trying to bide some time to correct some fundamental flaw.

The piecemeal release of 5.9.901 to selected people with no ways to request it is ... well ... weird as hell.

... Thom

 

[johnlgalt]

Do you know for sure that it was a Verizon tower or one of the competitor's towers where Verizon rented space? Maybe you are being serviced by a tower that is a lot farther away?

Thom, I do know what I am talking about. I've been with VZW for many years, and yes, it is a VZW tower. More than a few apps can show you your proximity to the tower that you are using for cell reception....

I think the reason they do is that they still think they are dealing with a PHONE and conclude that it is NO BIG DEAL. When they get personal use of these devices and start thinking of them as VERY SMALL COMPUTERS we will start to make some headway.

(I had one of the few programming groups on a mainframe that could be supported directly without going thought the communications interface. It would be blistering fast and cheaper to support my 10 people on it then to use the slower, more expensive method used by our users. We were the systems group enhancing and marinating the system. I chose the slower and more expensive solution for one simple reason ... the people doing the enhancements and maintenance were using exactly the same equipment as the users.)

I fail to see any logic in this at all. These devices did not spring up overnight. Treating them as a computer still involves a set protocol (which they are following) which is useless to an advanced user like me. I do the same thing when calling in to technical support for client machines - I bypass tier I and speak directly to Tier II, and if they start giving me any flack about wanting to try something again, I escalate above them as well.

And I didn't realize that you marinate a system....

It defies logic and must be driven by some other reason ... like ... trying to bide some time to correct some fundamental flaw.

The piecemeal release of 5.9.901 to selected people with no ways to request it is ... well ... weird as hell.

... Thom

I'm talking about VZW. The 901 was released by Motorola, so let's not confuse the issue, OK?

 

[Thom]

(1) I fail to see any logic in this at all. These devices did not spring up overnight. Treating them as a computer still involves a set protocol (which they are following) which is useless to an advanced user like me. I do the same thing when calling in to technical support for client machines - I bypass tier I and speak directly to Tier II, and if they start giving me any flack about wanting to try something again, I escalate above them as well.

(2) And I didn't realize that you marinate a system....

(3) I'm talking about VZW. The 901 was released by Motorola, so let's not confuse the issue, OK?

OK ... let me start over with my original response ...

"Yes I agree with every point you made in your original message."

With regards to this message ... please keep in ming that I am a Fierce supporter of the Bionic and want to see it flourish ...

(1) Verizon treats it as a "phone" and not a "computer". They don't see that it can take HOURS to recover from a factory data reset. They need to change their perception. (This was reiterating your point.)

(2) Thank you ... I missed that transposition and have corrected it.

(3) I don't want to separate Motorola and Verizon on this. Here's why ...

Why isn't Verizon making 5.9.901 available? Why should customers care if Motorola or Verizon is responsible? I paid Verizon $300 followed by $120/mo and there is some software going out to some Verizon customers and not other Verizon customers (like me). I fail to see why this is not a Verizon issue. I think the segregation of Motorola and Verizon is in the way.

I think the mere fact that typical end users (not software dudes and not testers) are being backed into installing "leaked software" that they assume total responsibility for supporting is an indication of how flawed this situation is.

I didn't buy this phone in a Motorola store. I don't get a monthly bill from Motorola. I have to conclude that this is a Verizon problem.

... Thom

 

[stoney bones]

update:

still awaiting the response of my trouble ticket. they said they may push me a "hybrid" version....i got antsy and installed the .901 leak on one of my phones with no issues and so far so good. will test it for a day or two and report back with feedback.

if the "hybrid" version the vzw rep is mentioning is in fact the .901.....would it be any different then the leaked version out already?

 

[rogue_slc_vzw_rep]

(3) I don't want to separate Motorola and Verizon on this. Here's why ...



I didn't buy this phone in a Motorola store. I don't get a monthly bill from Motorola. I have to conclude that this is a Verizon problem.

... Thom

Sorry but your conclusion is just wrong. VZW doesn't write the updates for your phone, Motorola does. if your phone has a software problem that makes it hard to get a good signal from VZW that's a Motorola issue.

 

[Thom]

Sorry but your conclusion is just wrong. VZW doesn't write the updates for your phone, Motorola does. if your phone has a software problem that makes it hard to get a good signal from VZW that's a Motorola issue.

Thank you for the clarification ... by "wrong" you apparently mean "not politically correct" ... and not "not logical" ...

5.9.901 is being sent to SOME Verizon users

- I have to assume that Verizon is aware of who those users are.

- When there is a problem detected in 5.9.901 on a device that was purchased from Verizon and running software distributed directly from Motorola ... where does the owner of that device turn for support?

- When Verizon gets a report from a 5.9.901 (official) device what do they do?

- If Verizon does not support the device, is there a statement in the installation of 5.9.901 that explains that it is unsupported and being installed at the owner's risk?

I have to apologize ... running a 100% supported Bionic and I have never seen 5.9.901.

... Thom

 

[Bionic2]

I get how annoyed people are that are having data issues but if you really think that you are calling in and we know about an issue but aren't trying to help you.. Well you are too cynical for your own good. When you call in and the rep doesn't seem to know how to help you is because there is no known issue or fix and they don't know to help you. You can call them idiots or having comprehension problems but there is probably just no known fix. Deal with that how you will but those peoples jobs are to resolve your issue and it's just as frustrating to them when they can't.

If you want something more done have then file a product issue form. When they submit that it goes to that call centers data consultants, HQ and the phones manufacturer. File a trouble ticket. These are the best ways to get problems fixed. Not by demanding a new phone.

I don't know about that. I got my phone on launch day and noticed a big problem with data dops within the first couple of weeks. The first verizon csr I talked with told me that it is a known problem with the bionic. I was told to wait for the software update. Since that call I probably talked with three more reps and was told the same thing. Sems like I couldn't have been the only one complaining?

 

[rogue_slc_vzw_rep]

We can all say Verizon has to support my phone but they train their tech support 95% on the network. That sucks for you that you think you can call and get full support for your phone but you will never find that's the case. If you're unhappy with how your phone works talk to the people that made it. It's Verizon tech support you call. You want Motorola tech support you are calling the wrong people. That's kinda why Verizon doesn't know how to help you. Call your cable provider and ask why your TV keeps turning off by itself. Tell me how that goes

 

[Thom]

update:

still awaiting the response of my trouble ticket. they said they may push me a "hybrid" version....i got antsy and installed the .901 leak on one of my phones with no issues and so far so good. will test it for a day or two and report back with feedback.

if the "hybrid" version the vzw rep is mentioning is in fact the .901.....would it be any different then the leaked version out already?

When you get the new device you can go to Settings | About phone and compare it to the 5.9.901 entry on ... http://androidforums.com/motorola-droid-bionic/438060-bionic-reference-terms-links.html#post3398984.

If they are identical then what you have installed is identical to the leaked 5.9.901.

I am very interested in what they send you. If they are different, it would be great if you could post a screenshot of that information from your new phone.

... Thom

 

[Thom]

We can all say Verizon has to support my phone but they train their tech support 95% on the network. That sucks for you that you think you can call and get full support for your phone but you will never find that's the case. If you're unhappy with how your phone works talk to the people that made it. It's Verizon tech support you call. You want Motorola tech support you are calling the wrong people. That's kinda why Verizon doesn't know how to help you. Call your cable provider and ask why your TV keeps turning off by itself. Tell me how that goes

I for one am not trying to say this is the problem with Verizon Tech support.

I think it is a problem with Verizon ... Verizon stores, Verizon towers, Verizon relationship to Motorola.

I am an ardent supported of the Bionic (since minute one). I tell my customers that 4G is about to hit our area and it will change the way people do business. They tell me they are ready to get a new phone and ask me what they should do. I tell them they should hold off 2-3 months until the situation stabilizes. The reliability they need for business is just not there now.

We all want to get the problems solved.

Logic tells me the only thing I can do is wait some more months.

What do you recommend? How can customers help make a more reliable service?

... Thom

 

[johnlgalt]

This is a multiquoted response - so I'm breaking it into parts to keep the page from being waaaaaya too long.

Q1:

Spoiler

OK ... let me start over with my original response ...

"Yes I agree with every point you made in your original message."

With regards to this message ... please keep in ming that I am a Fierce supporter of the Bionic and want to see it flourish ...

(1) Verizon treats it as a "phone" and not a "computer". They don't see that it can take HOURS to recover from a factory data reset. They need to change their perception. (This was reiterating your point.)

(2) Thank you ... I missed that transposition and have corrected it.

(3) I don't want to separate Motorola and Verizon on this. Here's why ...

Why isn't Verizon making 5.9.901 available? Why should customers care if Motorola or Verizon is responsible? I paid Verizon $300 followed by $120/mo and there is some software going out to some Verizon customers and not other Verizon customers (like me). I fail to see why this is not a Verizon issue. I think the segregation of Motorola and Verizon is in the way.

I think the mere fact that typical end users (not software dudes and not testers) are being backed into installing "leaked software" that they assume total responsibility for supporting is an indication of how flawed this situation is.

I didn't buy this phone in a Motorola store. I don't get a monthly bill from Motorola. I have to conclude that this is a Verizon problem.

... Thom

1) I still don't see the difference in treating it as a phone versus treating as a computer. I've seen people spend hours and even days, weeks, months! trying to fix a problem that a simple format and reinstall would have fixed. yeah, it takes time to get all the apps back, and such, but that is what backups are for.

I realize that this quasi supports your argument, but here is the thing: We don't have an established way of backing up apps and data without being rooted - otherwise we can only get those apps which we install ourselves, and their data. the apps that come with the phone are naturally going ot come back - but the data that gets added to the phone in those apps is not easily replaceable. Anyone who has had to factory reset knows that most times after signing back in you don't have your WiFi APs, your Various Google Accounts and services, your email, etc.

If VZW were truly treating this as a phone and not as a computer, they would not give a rat's derri

 

[azbrendan]

Well I can tell you i have had the same issues since september. I am on my 3rd bionic but really think its more of a issue with certain towers not playing nice with the bionic. I was in LA for a week over the holiday and my bionic worked as advertised. This thing was blazing with no issues. I get back to tucson and right away back to the old data issues and bsod twice in a week. Not sure what it is but its not entirely moto...my girlfriend has the razr and loves it. It def responds to the towers differently than the bionic. She gets data drops but they are not that often. I would take one of those if it had a bigger battery...

 

[Thom]

(1) You have no choice in separating the two. Here's why. My original rejoinders to rogue suggest that the issue is a VZW only issue - and if that turns out to be the case then why should Motorola share in the blame? If the network is causing all of the issues, then the network should not be asking Motorola to take the fall with them.

(2) Simply put - Motorola released the update to a select group of users - by their phone's MEID. The file did pass through the VZW network, but was neither developed nor sanctioned by VZW. The reason that it only happened on VZW is simple - the BIONIC is only on VZW.

(3) If my TV is sold through my cable provider and receives software updates through my cable provider ...

(4) Sorry, but you're mistaken. Just because the items in about phone are identical does not make the entire update identical.

(5) The network needs fixing and it needed it 6 months ago.

(1) There is obviously a BIG problem that they don't want to step up to.

(2) It is my understanding that if you filed a formal bug report with Verizon about the data drops that you got 5.9.901 pushed to you. Perhaps it was filed with Motorola. At any rate the way it got connected to so that Bionic should be getting the "leak that isn't a leak" was because it passed through Verizon.

Oh I see .... I'm Verizon and anything I don't want to answer I'll just claim ignorance ... I get it now ...

(3) I was tempted to respond to that one but refrained. (Something to do with a dead horse.)

(4) I ASSUMED that the "hybrid" would come preinstalled on his replacement. If it is an after-the-fact installation then a copy for comparison would be very useful.

(5) Yes!

... Thom

 

[stoney bones]

actually the replacement phone they sent me was refurbished (i just bought these brand new full price a couple months ago) and it didnt even have .893 on it....kind of shocking

we live right on the edge of a 4g network. at home me and my girl (both have bionics) get regular data drops...this is a 3g full bar area....when she is at work 20miles away in a 4g network she gets even more drops....mine is hit or miss...

another thing i noticed with my phone is that when i pick up my phone and turn the screen on, sometimes it will take up to 10 mins or so for the data to pop in...then it seems like it loses the data once the phone is set down and goes idle again.

so, ive got my girls phone updated to .901 and it has been for almost 24 hours and been working fine. not a single data drop here in 3g. today when she goes to work i told her to pay special attention to her data for me and report back....but the .901 for now seems to have worked.

for what its worth