Free WiFi hotspot (no root needed)

[dave1812]

Maybe Verizon gives an educational discount? Have you asked?

... Thom

My dad (retired military) told me recently about verizon giving GI's a break. I called them and sure enough, even my 4 year stint during the viet nam era got me a 15% discount off the basic plan. all they needed was for me to fax a copy of my DD 214.

 

[dave1812]

You're missing the point Thom. I am not someone to double pay someone, especially when they have misled me.

The misleading part came in during the sales pitch about how it could act as a mobile hotspot and I could use it with my laptop without ever once mentioning an extra charge to tap my screen.

The double paying comes in on the fact that I bought the phone that can do the hotspot and that I am already paying for up to 4GB of data.

I am not talking about using more than 4GB of data under my plan. As someone else explained, using a hotspot does not use any extra resources on Verizon's end, it merely shares the single one similar to a home router. To me, this is no different than if when I turned on wifi on the phone, the cable company were to charge me extra for having another device share my internet connection at home.

Not mention, from what Doogald copied, this may not even be against the terms with Verizon to begin with.

Let's also be honest about something else, and that's the hypocrisy on the issue on Verizon's end. They advertise how they want people to use their phone to stream movies and the like. I even have a Blockbuster app that Verizon puts on there that I can not remove and I do not want. So Verizon wants me to use more bandwidth than I currently use and would use sending a few emails and downloading assignments from my school.

I sympathize (to an extent) with your outrage, but let's not fool ourselves---of COURSE Verizon wants you to stream movies. Those that stream movies either need the unlimited plan or a very expensive new data plan with a large enough cap. The sad thing is that even the largest data cap isn't enough to stream movies frequently. I hardly ever stream movies, yet my typical usage is 7-9MB a month. I'd be pissed if I was capped.

Furthermore, when the salesman told you about the Hotspot feature, he was obviously letting you know that the phone was TECHNICALLY capable of providing such a feature. As a salesman, he isn't going to volunteer negative information. Salesman always stress the positive aspects. that's how they are taught.

 

[UncleMike]

...I hardly ever stream movies, yet my typical usage is 7-9MB a month. I'd be pissed if I was capped...

MB? Are you sure?

 

[dave1812]

MB? Are you sure?

GB

 

[Satires]

I would say my take on this. I do believe in honesty.

The way I see it, if one is paying for a tiered data plan such as for an example "4gig" a month, they should be able to use that 4 gig how they please, I would.

But those of us that are unlimited? That's where my conscience puts the kabash on tethering. Simply because it is unlimited.

This phone will be my only contact with the web, that's why I utilize the webtop app when I need a bigger screen with a bluetooth mouse and keyboard.

In short, my personal opinion is that unlimited data users should not be tethering.

Tiered data users should have the right to do as they wish with the allocated amount of "gigs" they pay for.

I have tried tethering apps for kicks and giggles but it may have been for a day or so just playing around.

My wife is on a tiered plan (Poor girl), she can tether if need be for certain things with my blessings simply because I pay for that alotted amount of gigs. If it goes over? I pay per gig. Verizon isn't getting screwed be tiered data users in my opinion. They're getting screwed by those with unlimited data plans that abuse such apps streaming and file sharing and so on.

 

[thetingster]

I am surprised this is an issue. It's not like the old days where people were plugging into the line to get free cable TV. The problem is Verizon's own fault for offering unlimited data plans then changing things to tiered plans. It's all about marketing and corporate competition. If you are willing they will squeeze every dime out of your pocket no question about it. If I were to question Verizon it would be why allow unlimited data on an open source OS and expect people to hand you more $ to tether. It's just a marketing stunt to sell more phones with options the dumb user doesn't know the device already does. Verizon could just turn it off they have the keys you know.

 

[SNeitzel]

Sorry, posted in wrong thread.

 

[CrazyCal]

I can't get it to work on my Rezound.

It says "WiFi mode has failed on your phone. Please use Bluetooth mode instead." Any suggestions?

 

[doogald]

I can't get it to work on my Rezound.

It says "WiFi mode has failed on your phone. Please use Bluetooth mode instead." Any suggestions?

You'll need to use Bluetooth. It doesn't work with WiFi on the Rezound.

(see the Play Store description: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.foxfi&hl=en )

Enables WiFi or Bluetooth Hotspot on your Android phone without a Hotspot plan from your carrier. No rooting required! Just install and turn it on. Bluetooth mode works for all phones. WiFi mode currently works on most Samsung/Motorola/LG phones. WiFi mode does NOT work on Motorola Droid 1, Motorola Triumph, Samsung Admire, LG Revolution or any HTC phones, use Bluetooth mode instead.

 

[CrazyCal]

K. Answers my question. App is useless. Uninstall.

 

[devious1]

You can bet I'm using it! I'm granfathered in to a unlimited plan, but I can tell you what Verizon is charging for data plans these days is the real crime!

 

[dautley]

My dad (retired military) told me recently about verizon giving GI's a break. I called them and sure enough, even my 4 year stint during the viet nam era got me a 15% discount off the basic plan. all they needed was for me to fax a copy of my DD 214.

Yes they give military/ex-military a 15% access discount, but State workers here in TN get a 20% discount and some corporate users get even more. You do not get any discount toward tethering. They did use to give a 12% data discount to military but did away with that when they did away with unlimited data plans, if you had unlimited data you kept it but lost the discount.
15% is okay but Verizon isn't really bending over backwards to give our Vets anything worth very much, I get a whole $12.00 a month off my bill.

 

[dave1812]

Yes they give military/ex-military a 15% access discount, but State workers here in TN get a 20% discount and some corporate users get even more. You do not get any discount toward tethering. They did use to give a 12% data discount to military but did away with that when they did away with unlimited data plans, if you had unlimited data you kept it but lost the discount.
15% is okay but Verizon isn't really bending over backwards to give our Vets anything worth very much, I get a whole $12.00 a month off my bill.

LOL! It's better than a kick in the butt, but I agree the savings are hardly earth-shattering.

 

[dautley]

I pay thirty a month for unlimited mobile hotspot. I don't have to worry about being throttled.

How did you get this deal? I'm grandfathered into unlimited data, but if I want to legally tether or use my phone as a hotspot Verizon wants $30.00 more a month with a 2GB tethering cap from me.

 

[Phastor]

Ok. Here is how I see this.

There is the Wireless Tether app. Some time ago, Verizon set that app up to be not visible on the Android Market from their network.

Fast forward to today. For whatever reason, they have not taken action to block FoxFi from the market in their network. Without rooting or even choosing to install the app from a third party, you can download and install the app right out if the box.

That being said, until they block it and you have to go through third parties to obtain it, you could make the argument that you are merely using services that were legitimately obtained. It may be a clever and sneaky way of putting it, but it's technically true.

 

[wildkitten]

Ok. Here is how I see this.

There is the Wireless Tether app. Some time ago, Verizon set that app up to be not visible on the Android Market from their network.

Fast forward to today. For whatever reason, they have not taken action to block FoxFi from the market in their network. Without rooting or even choosing to install the app from a third party, you can download and install the app right out if the box.

That being said, until they block it and you have to go through third parties to obtain it, you could make the argument that you are merely using services that were legitimately obtained. It may be a clever and sneaky way of putting it, but it's technically true.

Well, this and the making if the loyalty discount into a loyalty fee is one reason I believe my family will end it's near 20 year relationship with Verizon. This entire "pay us extra for us not doing a thing" is just bad bad business.

If you bought a TV that could display certain channels and you pay the cable for the package where certain channels are included, how would you feel if the cable company then turned around and said "well, you are paying for the channels to be viewable, but if you actually tune those channels in you have to pay even extra"? I don't think anyone would accept that.

To me this is no different. Verizon sells a phone they advertise as a hotspot, they then turn around and sell data packages. If I am paying for 4GB of data, why can I not use that data how I need to? I see Satires point for those on unlimited, but those of us not on unlimited we should be allowed to use the abilities we have already paid for.

 

[doogald]

Well, this and the making if the loyalty discount into a loyalty fee is one reason I believe my family will end it's near 20 year relationship with Verizon. This entire "pay us extra for us not doing a thing" is just bad bad business.

If you bought a TV that could display certain channels and you pay the cable for the package where certain channels are included, how would you feel if the cable company then turned around and said "well, you are paying for the channels to be viewable, but if you actually tune those channels in you have to pay even extra"? I don't think anyone would accept that.

You just built a straw man here. When does this ever happen?

To me this is no different. Verizon sells a phone they advertise as a hotspot, they then turn around and sell data packages. If I am paying for 4GB of data, why can I not use that data how I need to? I see Satires point for those on unlimited, but those of us not on unlimited we should be allowed to use the abilities we have already paid for.

The simple answer is that you signed a contract that gives Verizon the ability to cancel your service if you tether. My guess is that VZW will not want to anger a good customer who uses data occasionally like this, but will take action against anybody who abuses their service. If you want to try using this app for light tethering, especially if you do not use past your data limit, I'll bet that VZW will not even notice. The worst thing that will happen to you is that you will be warned and then you'll know it's time to stop.

I'm not suggesting that you should or should not, just that it is my guess that Verizon is most concerned about the people who use dozens of GBs a month on unlimited data plans.

 

[wildkitten]

You just built a straw man here. When does this ever happen?



The simple answer is that you signed a contract that gives Verizon the ability to cancel your service if you tether. My guess is that VZW will not want to anger a good customer who uses data occasionally like this, but will take action against anybody who abuses their service. If you want to try using this app for light tethering, especially if you do not use past your data limit, I'll bet that VZW will not even notice. The worst thing that will happen to you is that you will be warned and then you'll know it's time to stop.

I'm not suggesting that you should or should not, just that it is my guess that Verizon is most concerned about the people who use dozens of GBs a month on unlimited data plans.

It's not a strawman, it's an analogy. I didn't say it did happen, that's the point. I'm saying if a cable company did do that, no one would stand for it. Obviously it's absurd on the face of it to pay for a cable package that includes, let's say HBO, but if you actually tune your TV to HBO you have to pay even extra.

But this hotspot fee is just as absurd and is the same kind of principle. Verizon sells a phone that can act as a hotspot. They then sell limited data plans. But to use the two things a person has already paid for, Verizon wants to pay extra for absolutely no extra work and no extra resources used on their part.

For the record, I have yet to even use this feature and the FoxFi app. I also have never used more than 700MB of data in a single month. I merely do not like such obvious attempts to scam money out of customers for doing absolutely no work by double charging for things.

 

[SirEagle]

It's not a strawman, it's an analogy. I didn't say it did happen, that's the point. I'm saying if a cable company did do that, no one would stand for it. Obviously it's absurd on the face of it to pay for a cable package that includes, let's say HBO, but if you actually tune your TV to HBO you have to pay even extra.

But this hotspot fee is just as absurd and is the same kind of principle. Verizon sells a phone that can act as a hotspot. They then sell limited data plans. But to use the two things a person has already paid for, Verizon wants to pay extra for absolutely no extra work and no extra resources used on their part.

As for the cable comparison, you can buy a TV that is High Def, then you pay the cable company for service, then some companys you have to pay for high def service(some have changed and it's not an extra charge now but it used to be), then you still have to pay for the premium HBO. So they all add charges on top of the original service fees.

 

[darkmaniac7]

Coming from a Network Engineering background, but also being a VZW customer I can see both sides, I work with CenturyLink who thanks to a lot of all the heavy network traffic has provided us with a lot of contracts running more Fiber out to towers. Verizon is actually one of our biggest clients. (and it reflects that attitude with our discounts we get from VZW, vs sprint or AT&T)

It mostly boils down to one thing, Line Capacity.... That's the reason they want you to pay more, and if everyone who rooted their phone and uses free tethering bought the packages instead, Verizon would likely be increasing their towers line capacity a lot more...BTW I also use FoxFi and don't pay for it, so don't let it seem like i'm talking down to you guys, i'm only trying to explain it from their perspective.

Let us assume that customer A's device (phone) typically pulls say 3Mb/s...mostly burstable by watching a youtube video, or pulling facebook up and that the tower he's on is in a rural location, so an IMA Group of 8-16 aggregated T1's so the line capacity is 12-24MB/s MAX.

Then there is Customer B who rooted his device and uses his Laptop to download torrents, plays games, whatever, point is it's a data intensive service. it's no longer burstable, you have a continuous pull of whatever the device is running in the background, and your laptop. in a worst case scenario where that device is using the full, let us assume 8 Mb/s or 1 MB/s constantly (what mine is downloading at while waiting for Diablo III to install *Sigh*) that is quite a drain on that tower's line capacity. 37.5-75% utilization of that rural tower's Capacity.

Now how often is this true? Never in my experience, I've never seen an IMA Group hooked up to a tower, those are typically reserved for rural DSLAM's for DSL Customers, It's usually an OC Line or group of OC lines typically OC-12/24/48 (601/1244/2488Mbps Respectively) or what we've been doing as of late moving from ATM (OC Lines) to Ethernet (GigE or 10 GigE)

Anyway just wanted to let you guy's know Verizon's thought process from a business perspective....personally though? I won't be buying that package...Why?

This is the exact same thing that happened with MPAA when the VCR came out, the Same thing with RIAA when the MP3 Player came out, and also even more recently and relevant;

The EXACT same thing ISP's tried to do when Wireless Routers came out, I remember my parents receiving a letter when we were with Sprint DSL or Comcast back around the late 90's? Saying not to install one in your home and it was a violation of your TOS/Contract and they had ways of finding out if you did...yes that happened, and yes they wanted you to buy an individual Line/Modem Per PC....this whole thing will go the same way as that ridiculous notion did...Just give it time.

 

[wildkitten]

Coming from a Network Engineering background, but also being a VZW customer I can see both sides, I work with CenturyLink who thanks to a lot of all the heavy network traffic has provided us with a lot of contracts running more Fiber out to towers. Verizon is actually one of our biggest clients. (and it reflects that attitude with our discounts we get from VZW, vs sprint or AT&T)

It mostly boils down to one thing, Line Capacity.... That's the reason they want you to pay more, and if everyone who rooted their phone and uses free tethering bought the packages instead, Verizon would likely be increasing their towers line capacity a lot more...BTW I also use FoxFi and don't pay for it, so don't let it seem like i'm talking down to you guys, i'm only trying to explain it from their perspective.

Let us assume that customer A's device (phone) typically pulls say 3Mb/s...mostly burstable by watching a youtube video, or pulling facebook up and that the tower he's on is in a rural location, so an IMA Group of 8-16 aggregated T1's so the line capacity is 12-24MB/s MAX.

Then there is Customer B who rooted his device and uses his Laptop to download torrents, plays games, whatever, point is it's a data intensive service. it's no longer burstable, you have a continuous pull of whatever the device is running in the background, and your laptop. in a worst case scenario where that device is using the full, let us assume 8 Mb/s or 1 MB/s constantly (what mine is downloading at while waiting for Diablo III to install *Sigh*) that is quite a drain on that tower's line capacity. 37.5-75% utilization of that rural tower's Capacity.

Now how often is this true? Never in my experience, I've never seen an IMA Group hooked up to a tower, those are typically reserved for rural DSLAM's for DSL Customers, It's usually an OC Line or group of OC lines typically OC-12/24/48 (601/1244/2488Mbps Respectively) or what we've been doing as of late moving from ATM (OC Lines) to Ethernet (GigE or 10 GigE)

Anyway just wanted to let you guy's know Verizon's thought process from a business perspective....personally though? I won't be buying that package...Why?

This is the exact same thing that happened with MPAA when the VCR came out, the Same thing with RIAA when the MP3 Player came out, and also even more recently and relevant;

The EXACT same thing ISP's tried to do when Wireless Routers came out, I remember my parents receiving a letter when we were with Sprint DSL or Comcast back around the late 90's? Saying not to install one in your home and it was a violation of your TOS/Contract and they had ways of finding out if you did...yes that happened, and yes they wanted you to buy an individual Line/Modem Per PC....this whole thing will go the same way as that ridiculous notion did...Just give it time.

I guess I'm not underdstanding the point. Are you saying that the 4GB data plan we pay for is only burst data and that we aren't paying for continuous pull data?

To me this is a simple matter. We as customers bought phones that include mobile hotspot in them. We pay for a data package. How is it I can not use that 4GB in a month any way I see fit? What additional resources must Verizon use for me to use data one versus another? If I were to go over that 4GB of data, whether on my phone or any other way, I will have to pay an exorbitant fee, and I know that. That's why I rarely use half of a GB and have never gone over 1GB of data.

This and the loyalty fee are the two reasons I will be giving other carriers an oppurtunity to have my business when my contract with Verizon is up.

 

[doogald]

I guess I'm not underdstanding the point. Are you saying that the 4GB data plan we pay for is only burst data and that we aren't paying for continuous pull data?

He's saying what I think I said before - Verizon has to budget the bandwidth used at each tower. Tethering tends to stress the tower more, since tethered users use more data at any given moment, so it costs Verizon more to provide adequate bandwidth for all of their users.

To me this is a simple matter. We as customers bought phones that include mobile hotspot in them. We pay for a data package. How is it I can not use that 4GB in a month any way I see fit? What additional resources must Verizon use for me to use data one versus another? If I were to go over that 4GB of data, whether on my phone or any other way, I will have to pay an exorbitant fee, and I know that. That's why I rarely use half of a GB and have never gone over 1GB of data.

I actually agree with this - a capped data plan should include hotspot service as part of the data plan. The real problem for Verizon from a revenue point of view is grandfathered, unlimited plan users; they should have to pay separately for hotspot, or choose to upgrade to a capped plan.

That said, Verizon is charging because they can. My guess is that they probably dont' want people tethering at all; they make it hard so that people will not do it. If enough people cared so much about this that they left Verizon for a carrier that allowed tethering without a fee (if there is one), then they may be forced to start bundling it. Perhaps they will later when the LTE network is fully rolled out. I guess we'll see.

 

[wildkitten]

He's saying what I think I said before - Verizon has to budget the bandwidth used at each tower. Tethering tends to stress the tower more, since tethered users use more data at any given moment, so it costs Verizon more to provide adequate bandwidth for all of their users.

Are you saying that there are additional resources being used when someone uses the hotspot on their phone to, let's say, check email on their laptop rather than doing so on their phone?

See, this is where my problem comes into play with this subject. From everything I have read and been told, whether or not I am using my phone to do something or using another device over the phone's hotspot, there is no additional resources or strain being used on Verizon's network. If this is incorrect, I am open to learning how so.

I perfectly understand where the differences come into play with those on the unlimited plans. Of course it seems that it's possible that before too long there may not be anyone on an unlimited plan.

 

[darkmaniac7]

He's saying what I think I said before - Verizon has to budget the bandwidth used at each tower. Tethering tends to stress the tower more, since tethered users use more data at any given moment, so it costs Verizon more to provide adequate bandwidth for all of their users

Exactly...thanks for translating that i'd been working a long shift at the time so I may not have conveyed that as well as i'd liked.

Are you saying that there are additional resources being used when someone uses the hotspot on their phone to, let's say, check email on their laptop rather than doing so on their phone?

The issue with what you say in just checking your email is that's not what the majority are doing, and why would they? your phone does that for you. it even pulls my corporate email, and I can VPN to my Laptop and pull down work documents.

See, this is where my problem comes into play with this subject. From everything I have read and been told, whether or not I am using my phone to do something or using another device over the phone's hotspot, there is no additional resources or strain being used on Verizon's network. If this is incorrect, I am open to learning how so.

I already covered this earlier that their are more resources (in a sense) being used on a laptop comparing burstable data vs. sustained data usage. Next.


What most of us are doing is watching Netflix, Hulu, Torrenting, Playing Games (Like i was, playing Diablo last night...well while the servers were up) all of those Applications require more bandwidth than your typical phone usage does. Does your phone play Youtube Vids at 720p? through personal experience I have noticed that when activating my phone as a hotspot my laptop uses more bandwidth for the same activities my phone does...facebook, email etc.

 

[wildkitten]

Exactly...thanks for translating that i'd been working a long shift at the time so I may not have conveyed that as well as i'd liked.



The issue with what you say in just checking your email is that's not what the majority are doing, and why would they? your phone does that for you. it even pulls my corporate email, and I can VPN to my Laptop and pull down work documents.



I already covered this earlier that their are more resources (in a sense) being used on a laptop comparing burstable data vs. sustained data usage. Next.


What most of us are doing is watching Netflix, Hulu, Torrenting, Playing Games (Like i was, playing Diablo last night...well while the servers were up) all of those Applications require more bandwidth than your typical phone usage does. Does your phone play Youtube Vids at 720p? through personal experience I have noticed that when activating my phone as a hotspot my laptop uses more bandwidth for the same activities my phone does...facebook, email etc.

Then Verizon is doing false advertising by saying data as if it's any sort of data and should be saying what types of specific data is acceptable and block those things that use sustained data usage.

When I went into the Verizon store they made no mention of what acceptable data usage could be done. They made it sound as if I could use the data in way I wanted, up to 4GB per month.

As for why I want to do mail on my laptop, sometimes I have school documents I don't want on my phone. As a matter of fact I have completely gotten rid of email on my phone because even though I have manual fetch on and have it specified NOT to automatically get email, every time I reboot my phone or there is a data drop, it checks the email. Frustrating my phone can not behave how I tell it too.

And if doing things like Netflix is sustained data which is bad for their networks, why is it that the advertise watching Netflix on their phones? Why is it I have a Blockbuster bloatware app which is essentially the same thing as Netflix on my phone that can not be uninstalled? Sorry, the mixed messages is very frustrating.