Help Internal storage discussion (apps, errors)

[hootie]

Read this over at Good and Evo:

Brandon: I'm a little confused by the phone storage shots; they seem to suggest that you only get 2GB of space for apps, and the other 10 gigs is for storage of media. I'm a bit disappointed if 2GB is all I get for apps.

John: That's a great question, and I'm happy to clarify. I actually just addressed it last night in the video walkthrough, but it's worth revisiting here, too. Apps are automatically installed to "internal storage" (that's the 2GB you were talking about), while around 10GB of "phone storage" is set aside for anything else you want to put on the phone. However, it's really easy to move apps over to phone storage: just go to Settings > Apps > On phone storage. You'll see a list of apps that you can move to phone storage, if you want, freeing up more space in your internal storage. It works exactly the same way as moving apps to your SD card.

 

[Rose4uKy]

Well the EVO only had like 500mbs for apps and the 3D says 1.15GB so I'll take two. Cause I am low on space now but was planning on not putting as much stuff on the new phone. I have alot of apps I don't use and I can't even update apps now I have no space. So I'll take the 2 which is about double of what I have now knowing I am not putting every single app back on this new phone. But being able to move to phone storage like app to sd seems good. My Archos tablet was like that and I didn't know it. I thought since it had 16 gigs and then I ran out of app space quick. I now have the 32 gig Transformer Prime and I don't know how much is for apps only but It's been great so far. But i can't move apps to sd card on it. It has ICS.

Read this over at Good and Evo:

 

[mak916]

What's the difference between internal storage and phone storage? I thought they were the same.

 

[PyroSporker]

What's the difference between internal storage and phone storage? I thought they were the same.

Evo 4G LTE Internal Memory Allocation:
9.93GB - Phone Storage (internal but used like a MicroSD card/Mass Storage)
2.09GB - Internal Storage (Applications)
~3GB or Remaining portion of 16GB after formatting - System Storage (Operating System and Sense files)

 

[Citizen Coyote]

Read this over at Good and Evo:

That's pretty much how the MoPho works. For the most part it's not a big deal, but some apps won't recognize an SD card as a valid storage location. For example, Google Music will happily read any media files you have on the physical SD card, but if you buy anything it will go on to the phone's internal storage. I have yet to find a setting telling it to save to the actual SD card.

Otherwise, as I said, not a big deal. Those apps (and pieces of apps) that refuse to move to the internal storage don't amount to a ton of space in general, unless you have hundreds of apps.

 

[EarlyMon]

Repeating info already stated, as a convenient wrap-up post -

App space on -

Evo 4G - 427 MB

Evo 3D - 1.15 GB (about double an Evo)

LTEvo - 2.09 GB (about double a 3vo, quadruple an Evo)

The 9~10 GB of user space will show up on your favorite file browser (EStrongs, Astro) under the /sdcard folder (even though it's not really a physical sd card).

The rest of the 16 GB is used by the operating system and necessary included apps (phone dialer for example), radio firmware and the bootloader.

Again - nothing new here, just a wrap-up post. Hope it helps!

 

[mak916]

On the 9 to 10 GB of phone storage, what can be placed there? Can apps, music and pictures be placed there?

 

[EarlyMon]

On the 9 to 10 GB of phone storage, what can be placed there? Can apps, music and pictures be placed there?

Exactly what can be placed on your Evo 3D's sd card. Music, pictures, vids, some app data.

Some apps can moved there with apps2sd or the equivalent built-in.

Many apps moved to the sd card will continue to store data into the 2GB apps area.

Here's how a phone is laid out (very simplified version) in terms of partitions. They're just like partitions (or logical drives, if you will) on a PC hard disk. Instead of drive letters, they get folder names -

• /boot
  • kernel goes here, it's not big
• /system
  • Android, Sense, and included apps (when you open the box) go here
• /data
  • your apps go here (this area is pretty rich, it's the 2 GB part of the LTEvo)
• /sdcard
  • a physical sd card on most phones, but actually a reserved space of 9~10 GB from the 16 GB storage on the LTEvo
  • Android always expects to see this folder/area
  • acts just like the sd card on an Evo or 3vo
• /cache
  • the operating system cache - ignore this, it doesn't concern you as a user as far as managing things go
• various hidden areas
  • bootloader, radio firmware, etc - ignore this, it doesn't concern you as a user as far as managing things go
• /sdcard/ext_sd or /sdcard2
  • if you install an actual sd card into the LTEvo, it will be accessed with either one of these names - both will exist, both are shortcut to the physical, removable sd card

 

[mak916]

Exactly what can be placed on your Evo 3D's sd card. Music, pictures, vids, some app data.

Some apps can moved there with apps2sd or the equivalent built-in.

Many apps moved to the sd card will continue to store data into the 2GB apps area.

Here's how a phone is laid out (very simplified version) in terms of partitions. They're just like partitions (or logical drives, if you will) on a PC hard disk. Instead of drive letters, they get folder names -

• /boot
  • kernel goes here, it's not big
• /system
  • Android, Sense, and included apps (when you open the box) go here
• /data
  • your apps go here (this area is pretty rich, it's the 2 GB part of the LTEvo)
• /sdcard
  • a physical sd card on most phones, but actually a reserved space of 9~10 GB from the 16 GB storage on the LTEvo
  • Android always expects to see this folder/area
  • acts just like the sd card on an Evo or 3vo
• /cache
  • the operating system cache - ignore this, it doesn't concern you as a user as far as managing things go
• various hidden areas
  • bootloader, radio firmware, etc - ignore this, it doesn't concern you as a user as far as managing things go
• /sdcard/ext_sd or /sdcard2
  • if you install an actual sd card into the LTEvo, it will be accessed with either one of these names - both will exist, both are shortcut to the physical, removable sd card

Thanks, I understand it better now. I like how that works.

 

[EarlyMon]

By the way - Android apps are small. They're often less than 5 MB, up to 50 for the bigger ones.

You can store hundreds of typical apps in 2 GB.

The problem comes from games and lazy app developers. Not uncommon for those clowns to download 300, 400 MB or more to your internal app space for game data.

Write them and let them know that you don't appreciate the Apple storage model, and that this is Android. Game data, like any app drawing a large data space, ought to go to your internal or external sd card, by your choice.

2 GB is a huge application space allocation.

But some devs are abusing you.

 

[mak916]

With the original EVO I was always watching my memory. With the 3VO and the Photon I don't worry about it as much. But my problem is I tend to be an app whore. lol. But I'm learning.

 

[crow11ad]

Loving the phone. But have a question as this maybe an I'v thing. When I dl an app, am I missing something as far as moving it to the sd card?

 

[crow11ad]

Ok if phone storage on the sd card, how come it only shows 9.+ giga anda fue sd caes ahora 59.46 gigs free? Maybe I am overly tired.

 

[drexappeal]

Loving the phone. But have a question as this maybe an I'v thing. When I dl an app, am I missing something as far as moving it to the sd card?

On the photon, moving apps to the sd translates to moving them to the media storage area. Apps can't be moved to the external sd. I don't have the LTEvo, so couldn't tell you how the partition is divided or if apps can be moved to the external sd, but there are done that have the photon that can likely tell you if it's the same on the LTEvo.

 

[crow11ad]

All I did was put the sd cars in the phone and did the format. I reminder with the og evo and app 2 sd you did it that way. Now with ics, you have internal with 2.09 gigs, phone storage with about 9+ gigs and sd with 59+.

Earlymon I know what you said, but there has to be away to save to sd card and the sd card to reflect that. Anyone have any ideas?

 

[EarlyMon]

All I did was put the sd cars in the phone and did the format. I reminder with the og evo and app 2 sd you did it that way. Now with ics, you have internal with 2.09 gigs, phone storage with about 9+ gigs and sd with 59+.

Earlymon I know what you said, but there has to be away to save to sd card and the sd card to reflect that. Anyone have any ideas?

Actually, in the pre-release root and across the forums for months, I've been calling for an Android mod to do just that.

The issue started with the expanded storage phones - LTEvo is one of them.

Problem is that the consumer expectation is that the physical SD card will continue to work as before.

First comes the legacy problem -

So long as sd cards are formatted using Windows vfat, rather than a Linux filesystem like the rest of the phone, moving things to the card will have its limits.

Was the philosophy of vFAT to share data across platforms to Windows?

The reason why this plagues users?

Root required and locked bootloaders everywhere.

It's almost the standard to allow moving the card to any media devices and have it just work. Example, not only being able to plug in to your PC, but you can also put that card right into many HP photo printers and go to town.

Plus, it's likely easier to mount it on any make/os pc and transfer data.

Right now, the issue is fixed partitions and direct mount points for them, as well as their order, in Android.

What's needed is for the /data area to be configurable to point anywhere the user wants. Problem solved.

The holdup? Locked bootloaders and no root, out of the box, to let such a thing work.

Unix admins run into this on most every default unix install, and do just as I suggest where things like /system, /data and /etc are on disk, rather than memory.

The techniques are so well known that the cure for this could be trivial - were it not for the artificial, but quite real, constraints we face.

See also -

Android Partitions Explained: boot, system, recovery, data, cache & misc

How to partition an sdcard for Linux/Android -

Properly Partition SD Card For App2SD+ Android ROMs

How to solve the problem at that point -

[GUIDE] How to get more FREE SPACE for your apps - Android @ MoDaCo

All of the disclaimers apply. Try that only if you know what you are doing and accept the risks.

The good news is that you can learn what's required and get help from developers forums from those who came up with these tricks or from folks on our forums who have been there, done that.

Hope this helps!

Android is Linux.

In Linux, you get root privileges from day one.

With Android, you get things locked to just one way - until the dev community steps in to help.

Please note well - the above links are to inform all of the methods that have been deployed in the past.

Please do NOT try them on your LTEvo unless you have crazy-high unix skills, know what those commands do without asking, and are quite certain that you want to guinea pig that sort of thing for others here.

Meanwhile - you now have more storage than ever before.

(PS - "phone storage" is really used to refer to the whole 16 GB that comes with the phone, and may cause confusion talking to others. Perhaps best to refer to 2 GB apps, 9+ GB as either "additional user storage" or "internal sd card" - that may help ease communicating with others as we move down the road.

Anyway - wish I had more that I could tell you.

 

[drexappeal]

All I did was put the sd cars in the phone and did the format. I reminder with the og evo and app 2 sd you did it that way. Now with ics, you have internal with 2.09 gigs, phone storage with about 9+ gigs and sd with 59+.

Earlymon I know what you said, but there has to be away to save to sd card and the sd card to reflect that. Anyone have any ideas?

That's the point I was trying to make though. It really depends on how HTC set up the partition.

The Photon has 3gb for apps only, 8.92gb for media (e.g. internal storage) and then the remainder of the 16gb for internal storage is filled up by all the files to run the phone and format the internal storage.

If someone adds an external SD card, I have never found a way to actually move apps onto the external SD because the partition is set up to only move apps to the internal storage (which acts as the "SD" because of the partition with the internal storage...e.g. 3gb/8.92gb).

 

[crow11ad]

Ok this is why I never should have left Android. Its like never land, once you leave you forget.
I downloaded appear free version just like I originally did on the og evo. You gotta remember it's up to the developer to allow it to be saved to the sd card. For example dl appear and then dl Amazon. Once you do at the top you will see a little icon of a card and you pull down the notification and it will say this app can be saved to the sd card.

Then use app2sd to move it. So class not all apps can be moved as it is up to the developer to allow it to happen. If I am wrong let me know.

 

[drexappeal]

Ok this is why I never should have left Android. Its like never land, once you leave you forget.
I downloaded appear free version just like I originally did on the og evo. You gotta remember it's up to the developer to allow it to be saved to the sd card. For example dl appear and then dl Amazon. Once you do at the top you will see a little icon of a card and you pull down the notification and it will say this app can be saved to the sd card.

Then use app2sd to move it. So class not all apps can be moved as it is up to the developer to allow it to happen. If I am wrong let me know.

Here's the difference with the OG EVO. The OG EVO didn't have any on board storage. It only had storage for apps. In this case, you have on board storage that is partitioned specifically for certain purposes. The 2+gb partition would be similar to the storage the OG EVO had for apps. The remaining 9gb is partitioned out separately, so majority of the phones that I'm aware of will allow for any applicable apps (that can be moved) to be moved to the 9gb of on board storage. Basically, you'd have to pretend as if you never purchased an external memory card. When you move the app to SD, it'll go to the on board storage that's partitioned out from the storage made specifically for apps only.

As far as I know, even with apps2sd, the apps don't get moved to the external SD card...that is, unless, HTC set it up differently where you can have a choice between the two.

 

[crow11ad]

Here's the difference with the OG EVO. The OG EVO didn't have any on board storage. It only had storage for apps. In this case, you have on board storage that is partitioned specifically for certain purposes. The 2+gb partition would be similar to the storage the OG EVO had for apps. The remaining 9gb is partitioned out separately, so majority of the phones that I'm aware of will allow for any applicable apps (that can be moved) to be moved to the 9gb of on board storage. Basically, you'd have to pretend as if you never purchased an external memory card. When you move the app to SD, it'll go to the on board storage that's partitioned out from the storage made specifically for apps only.

As far as I know, even with apps2sd, the apps don't get moved to the external SD card...that is, unless, HTC set it up differently where you can have a choice between the two.

I understand what is going on. I just think there has to be a way to be able to move apps to the actual sd card.

 

[Rose4uKy]

Ok I have App2SD on the new phone it says move to phone storage and then back to onternal storage. So is phone storage your sd card? I moved a 26mb netflix app to phone storage then on APP2SD it's under sd card now but only shows 1.05mb. So I am assuming phone storage is your card right? And I am guessing it means out of the 26 mb it only moved 1.04mb of the app. I know all apps have to have stuff stay and that the whole entire app doesn't go to the card. But I moved Netflix back if it's only going to move 1.04 out of 26 I didn't I didn't think it needed to be on the card. Should I just not put anything on the card until I have too. Right now I have 1.65gb free out of 209 I know my 3D always said I had 1.15 so this is 50 more plus I am not downloading everything I had on my 3D. Just important stuff I need for now.

But I was told if you do see an X next to an app on APP2SD that you should leave it on the phone and that it means it will run better if not moved.I see the x now on some apps what does it mean? And my sense kept reloading on my 3D and I was low on space. Someone told me to take all apps with the x and put them back on phone to make it run better but eventually I was out of space and couldn't move anymore. I had 86 updates I never could update apps anymore neither. This phone ROCKS!

 

[crow11ad]

Ok I have App2SD on the new phone it says move to phone storage and then back to onternal storage. So is phone storage your sd card? I moved a 26mb netflix app to phone storage then on APP2SD it's under sd card now but only shows 1.05mb. So I am assuming phone storage is your card right? And I am guessing it means out of the 26 mb it only moved 1.04mb of the app. I know all apps have to have stuff stay and that the whole entire app doesn't go to the card. But I moved Netflix back if it's only going to move 1.04 out of 26 I didn't I didn't think it needed to be on the card. Should I just not put anything on the card until I have too. Right now I have 1.65gb free out of 209 I know my 3D always said I had 1.15 so this is 50 more plus I am not downloading everything I had on my 3D. Just important stuff I need for now.

But I was told if you do see an X next to an app on APP2SD that you should leave it on the phone and that it means it will run better if not moved.I see the x now on some apps what does it mean? And my sense kept reloading on my 3D and I was low on space. Someone told me to take all apps with the x and put them back on phone to make it run better but eventually I was out of space and couldn't move anymore. I had 86 updates I never could update apps anymore neither. This phone ROCKS!

No its not moving it to the sd cars like it did on the og evo. Its moving it to the phone storage. The one that is like 9 gigs.

 

[Rose4uKy]

Ok Ok Thanks! I didn't know and on APP2SD when I moved Netflix under apps on sd card it showed up there and said 1.09 mb but the whole app was like 26mb. So then I moved it back. But is it better to not move them unless you have too. Will your phone run better or faster. I know I was told it's not good to move the ones with the X on it. But anyone so you have 9 gigs to move apps too and 2 gigs for apps is that right? Well the 9 gigs is also for music and pics and stuff too am I right? I do know when I took a pic I think it asked if I wanted it to be on the sd card and I don't recall it asking that on my 3D.

No its not moving it to the sd cars like it did on the og evo. Its moving it to the phone storage. The one that is like 9 gigs.

 

[EarlyMon]

Again, phone storage is 16 GB.

It's broken down as follows -

Exactly what can be placed on your Evo 3D's sd card. Music, pictures, vids, some app data.

Some apps can moved there with apps2sd or the equivalent built-in.

Many apps moved to the sd card will continue to store data into the 2GB apps area.

Here's how a phone is laid out (very simplified version) in terms of partitions. They're just like partitions (or logical drives, if you will) on a PC hard disk. Instead of drive letters, they get folder names -

• /boot
  • kernel goes here, it's not big
• /system
  • Android, Sense, and included apps (when you open the box) go here
• /data
  • your apps go here (this area is pretty rich, it's the 2 GB part of the LTEvo)
• /sdcard
  • a physical sd card on most phones, but actually a reserved space of 9~10 GB from the 16 GB storage on the LTEvo
  • Android always expects to see this folder/area
  • acts just like the sd card on an Evo or 3vo
• /cache
  • the operating system cache - ignore this, it doesn't concern you as a user as far as managing things go
• various hidden areas
  • bootloader, radio firmware, etc - ignore this, it doesn't concern you as a user as far as managing things go
• /ext_sd
  • if you install an actual sd card into the LTEvo, it will be accessed with that name

The physical sd card access at /sdcard/ext_sd is a shortcut.

(So is /sdcard as matter of fact. When you put in a physical card, it doesn't change the directory name or re-copy anything, it just changes shortcuts from what you are used to.)

The actual storage story gets more complex from there and is only of value to devs and unix users familiar with FUSE.

Try EStrongs File Explorer, menu, preferences and set the home directory to / if you want to explore things.

App2sd still moves to /sdcard - but that isn't the physical, EXTernal SD card, ext_sd is.

The more the term "phone storage" is abused, the harder it's going to be to keep it all straight. Maybe try thinking of it as "user storage" instead.

Your sd card shortcut is named ext_sd.

Until there's a root solution to overcome the ICS filesystem layout on the phone with that getting renamed to /sdcard - or until someone invents an apps2sd that lets ICS see apps on /ext_sd instead, there won't be any way to move apps to the physical sd card. Calling /sdcard "phone storage" and insisting that an sd card is THE sd card won't change it. Sorry.

While we're at it - apps2sd became the craze on phones that had less than a quarter of the app storage space that this phone has.

Before sweating the importance of this, maybe make sure that it still matters.

 

[drexappeal]

I feel like all my posts were all pretty simple, but I guess they were still too complicated for people