Help Sense crashing/restarting - don't reset without checking Google Wallet!!!

[EarlyMon]

Hey EM, could we try to flash the RUU and see if that fixes the FC's?

Download HTCEvo4GLTE/RUU at StockROMs.net

If it were me, I wouldn't.

 

[814 htc evo]

My sd card was originally in my evo 3d, and I only factory reset to fix the sense issue and then it did temporarily and then google wallet went down and google claimed it was a hard ware problem which just can't be right !!! So I'm not sure what the problem is but please read my posts above to get a better idea of how this all happened me and early mon have been working side by side to try and figure something out and any help would be greatly appreciated please and thank you!!!

 

[Stubby1]

First off sorry to hear about this issue with wallet really sucks.

I know of no way to destroy a chip with software unless like a processor you some how have a program to under/overvolt the chip. The chips should be tested for either condition and a fail point found. The chips that are made for radios and the filters that go along with them are tested in this fashion.

Is wallet able to be shut down before use? If we can stop the app before we use it should help maybe.

Hope the sd card is not causing this issue because that is totally different unless their is some sort of ESD from the housing or port to the card and it happens to hit the closest chip. Just some brain storming.

 

[Stubby1]

My sd card was originally in my evo 3d, and I only factory reset to fix the sense issue and then it did temporarily and then google wallet went down and google claimed it was a hard ware problem which just can't be right !!! So I'm not sure what the problem is but please read my posts above to get a better idea of how this all happened me and early mon have been working side by side to try and figure something out and any help would be greatly appreciated please and thank you!!!

Do you have a new sd card to try. I have one 32G but don't have my phone yet.

I can't see the format changing or impacting the Chip though.

 

[EarlyMon]

Wallet has separate security keys. The reset while Wallet was in use is what hosed that key storage. It may have been a fusible security function built in to the NFC chip, or simply erased the key storage.

Chips with fuses that can be blown have been around for some time. The fact that rooters get around it, and that the phone worked again at repair strongly indicates no such hardware burnout happened and that's just the story that they tell.

WiMax had a set of security keys. Rooters that mucked about and lost those got stuck without WiMax, so that parallel exists.

This case sprang from unguarded software for a common user function. The phone may well need replacing but that cost ought be borne by HTC.

 

[814 htc evo]

Wallet still won't work after I did the factory reset and sense was fixed. But it came back and I even just formatted my sd again and still no such luck. Sense is still crashing and wallet still has the same message. And google tried to tell me that when I did the factory reset that messed up the NFC chip?! How is that even possible? According to google it is...so I'm not sure hopefully when this phone comes out to the masses we will have updates and more info on how to fix and resolve this because I'm not happy with sense constantly crashing and google lying to me about a factory reset ruined the NFC hardware which is not possible!!! Software and hardware work together yes...but you can't destroy hardware by simply doing a factory reset on a 1 1/2 day old phone let alone... So idk guys keep trying please!!!

 

[Stubby1]

Wallet has separate security keys. The reset while Wallet was in use is what hosed that key storage. It may have been a fusible security function built in to the NFC chip, or simply erased the key storage.

Chips with fuses that can be blown have been around for some time. The fact that rooters get around it, and that the phone worked again at repair strongly indicates no such hardware burnout happened and that's just the story that they tell.

WiMax had a set of security keys. Rooters that mucked about and lost those got stuck without WiMax, so that parallel exists.

This case sprang from unguarded software for a common user function. The phone may well need replacing but that cost ought be borne by HTC.

EM check this site out from NXP. It has the block diagram for a widely used chip. I did not see a fused link in the diagram but that doesn't mean anything.
I was looking for a schematic to no avail.

http://www.nxp.com/documents/leaflet/75016890.pdf

 

[sdrawkcab25]

Hey 814 evo...
Just to help you clarify your situation .... your hardware NFC chip is NOT fried... you can still use it for beaming apps/web pages etc.... the factory reset, fried the secure element, which is a piece of software that authenticates with the NFC chip for secure transactions (credit card). The Google rep you talked to is correct, the sprint techs are clueless. The reason you need to reset the wallet app before doing a reset is because when you first set up the wallet app, it generates a token (element) that binds the app to the nfc chip, this prevents the app from being hacked or a duplicate card being used on another phone. The only way to unbind the two is to reset the wallet from within the app.
Performing a factory reset without first telling Google wallet to release the secure element causes the software brick. I'm assuming this is because after a factory reset, the wallet app tries to generate a new secure element key, because it lost the original from the reset. But the actual NFC chip still has the original key stored. But resetting the wallet app beforehand let's the NFC chip lose its key. So after a factory reset they can pair with each other again.

 

[dpineda85]

S

Welcome! More info would be helpful.
What handset was the card in before the Evo LTE?
What files are on the card?
Manufacturer of card?
etc.

Alot of work involved, but if you remove all files from the card and re-insert it to the phone does it still cause the problem? (determines if this is a hardware issue or software issue). You could go folder by folder and add the files back to where they were and track down which file or folder is causing the conflict? (This SD card issue will probably be specific to your situation - others probably have different things causing issues with Sense)

The card was previously in my old Evo 4g. I transferred my music, pictures, and doc files to my pc. Although I did not format the card, I manually deleted every single file from the card. The sd card is a SanDisk 16gb micro sd hc. What would be the best way to format the card?

 

[PyroSporker]

So what if I hadn't configured Google Wallet at all before my factory reset? Is the 'secure key' still broken?

I reset shortly after the handset was activated and I did my initial play with it. It is just my M.O. (I also reset before and after each OTA). I'm pretty fastidious about making sure everything is clean and clear before mucking it up with new variables. Preventative measures so that there are less problems down the line.

I won't use wallet, and frankly don't care for the wallet feature however I would like to know if the functionality is disabled in some way from my maintenance routine. I don't use it but I'd like to know that it is still there in case I decide to try it. Tried opening Wallet out of curiosity and it wants me to install a new version from the market - not going to do that (I don't even have the market set up).

I have noticed I get a small pop up every so often that reads "content not updated - try again later" or something along those lines. I am unsure what it is related to.

 

[sdrawkcab25]

As long as you don't set up a credit card or Google prepaid card...you won't brick the secure element because a key is never generated.

 

[814 htc evo]

Hey 814 evo...
Just to help you clarify your situation .... your hardware NFC chip is NOT fried... you can still use it for beaming apps/web pages etc.... the factory reset, fried the secure element, which is a piece of software that authenticates with the NFC chip for secure transactions (credit card). The Google rep you talked to is correct, the sprint techs are clueless. The reason you need to reset the wallet app before doing a reset is because when you first set up the wallet app, it generates a token (element) that binds the app to the nfc chip, this prevents the app from being hacked or a duplicate card being used on another phone. The only way to unbind the two is to reset the wallet from within the app.
Performing a factory reset without first telling Google wallet to release the secure element causes the software brick. I'm assuming this is because after a factory reset, the wallet app tries to generate a new secure element key, because it lost the original from the reset. But the actual NFC chip still has the original key stored. But resetting the wallet app beforehand let's the NFC chip lose its key. So after a factory reset they can pair with each other again.

Okay now that makes more sense. Thank you for that I just wish I would have knew this before hand because I'm going to geuss there is no known way to correc this issue ?? So am I screwed now as far as google wallet goes? It is a software issue though correct? Just the software originally attached to the hardware to prevent theft etc...like I guessed a few posts back and you stated is now corrupt so to speak.. but my issue is does that mean I am never going to be able to use google wallet or my NFC chip with another google wallet type of program if one were to arise? Because if so then I am calling sprint, google whoever because that's not fair there was no pre caution before you factory reset please ensure you did this...or this etc...

let alone no info about this issue and to prevent it please do this before you factory reset...so if this issue cannot be fixed by OTA and adding a security feature to prevent someone from accessing your google wallet or duplicating it etc.... Via password, or paraphrases etc...they need to implement some sort of warning atleast or allow the app(software) to re configure a new key but prompt the user to a series of passcodes, or passphrases and proof of identity or some sort which would then allow them to regain access to google wallet because if I understand you correctly just like I thought the only reason that has happened to me is because it's basically a security feature incase someone lost their phone and the person who found it wiped it clean and went to use their $$$ on google wallet they can't because it would now be "software bricked so to speak" or so someone could not duplicate and use the same card and steal someone's $$$ secretly..

so this error I have is a security measure but does that mean il never be able to use google wallet again? Or if google submits a new security feature will it allow me and whoever else has this issue to regain access through a series of verification processes of who we are and what not? I sure hope so thanks for your input though it was very helpful !! Made me sad but helpful thank you!!!

 

[814 htc evo]

As long as you don't set up a credit card or Google prepaid card...you won't brick the secure element because a key is never generated.

Thank you as well your correct in your post I quoted above because unfortunately I did set up a pre paid card before I reset to fix the sense crashing issue which at first it was fixed but now it is not it is right back to constantly crashing and now I can't even use google wallet

 

[Stubby1]

When and If I get mine I think I will leave Google wallet alone for a while

 

[814 htc evo]

Yeah that's probably a good idea hopefully they fix these bugs!!! So far my bugs are that sense constantly crashes, and its doing the phantom voice mail thing, and the whole google wallet buggy security feature oh and the phone won't go to vibrate mode unless you physically go to settings and hit sound profile then switch it to vibrate instead of just doing the normal volume button thing

 

[sdrawkcab25]

Thank you as well your correct in your post I quoted above because unfortunately I did set up a pre paid card before I reset to fix the sense crashing issue which at first it was fixed but now it is not it is right back to constantly crashing and now I can't even use google wallet

Any other wallet type apps that come out should work fine, although no one knows for sure if the secure element is tied to the app(Google wallet) or if all future apps that need secure transactions will refer to the same secure element key. However it has been confirmed that all other NFC features do continue to work even if the secure element has been bricked.

 

[814 htc evo]

Any other wallet type apps that come out should work fine, although no one knows for sure if the secure element is tied to the app(Google wallet) or if all future apps that need secure transactions will refer to the same secure element key. However it has been confirmed that all other NFC features do continue to work even if the secure element has been bricked.

Okay well hopefully either google fixes that and uses a better way to secure the app or something and hopefully all future apps won't do the same since clearly a simple factory reset will brick that feature and the app will be useless. So hopefully they learn from googles buggy program and find a better/ able to be fixed if need be security feature.

 

[sdrawkcab25]

Okay well hopefully either google fixes that and uses a better way to secure the app or something and hopefully all future apps won't do the same since clearly a simple factory reset will brick that feature and the app will be useless. So hopefully they learn from googles buggy program and find a better/ able to be fixed if need be security feature.

Agreed

 

[Adar]

Okay well hopefully either google fixes that and uses a better way to secure the app or something and hopefully all future apps won't do the same since clearly a simple factory reset will brick that feature and the app will be useless. So hopefully they learn from googles buggy program and find a better/ able to be fixed if need be security feature.

There is nothing wrong with how the software works, as far as the security etc. It all makes sense to do it that way, and there are any number of secure packages that work exactly that way. The problem is actually with the reset function. The reset doesn't know to warn you first. Google can't fix it, because they can't link there software into the factory reset.

It should be documented too. This isn't a new problem. You get the same kinds of issues even with Windows activation, for much the same reasons.

 

[814 htc evo]

There is nothing wrong with how the software works, as far as the security etc. It all makes sense to do it that way, and there are any number of secure packages that work exactly that way. The problem is actually with the reset function. The reset doesn't know to warn you first. Google can't fix it, because they can't link there software into the factory reset.

It should be documented too. This isn't a new problem. You get the same kinds of issues even with Windows activation, for much the same reasons.

Well if that's the case then something needs to be done because clearly I'm not alone in this and now that software won't be utilized on my device and many others over that faulty issue. I don't care who's to blame but I expect more from sprint, HTC, and google of all people!

 

[Adar]

Well if that's the case then something needs to be done because clearly I'm not alone in this and now that software won't be utilized on my device and many others over that faulty issue. I don't care who's to blame but I expect more from sprint, HTC, and google of all people!

Don't get me wrong, you have every right to be mad. The ball was dropped by multiple people. Google knew how it worked and should have known and warned visibly that this situation could occur. Sprint should have had checks in place to at least warn before doing the reset.

Google may have thought keeping quiet would help keep it more secure through obfuscation. Sprint and/or HTC probably just didn't think to change the reset procedure. Neither is a good reason for this situation, but I can see how it could happen.

It isn't the method of how the NFC security works that is the problem, that was my only real point. I don't expect you to get a fix without a replacement phone, unfortunately. If there is an easy way around this, it would defeat the purpose of the security in the first place. You would think there would be a way to reset it via talking with Google, similar to how you can call Microsoft to reset your Windows activation. I hope something like that happens at some point. For people like you, waiting on a replacement phone might take a significant amount of time.

Also, you already put money into the Wallet, right? Did they say what happens to that money now?

 

[EarlyMon]

S

The card was previously in my old Evo 4g. I transferred my music, pictures, and doc files to my pc. Although I did not format the card, I manually deleted every single file from the card. The sd card is a SanDisk 16gb micro sd hc. What would be the best way to format the card?

I'd use the format function built in to the phone.

 

[814 htc evo]

So depressed just went to a truck stop and bought some pop and I of course noticed the pay pass option and of course NO I CAN'T USE GOOGLE WALLET EVEN though that was 30% of why I was foaming at the mouth for a NFC CAPABLE DEVICE I'M VERY SAD LOL

 

[814 htc evo]

Not to argue but I have a very strong feeling that there is somehow google can alter their app and provide a much more efficient and more user friendly security feature and lock to prevent what they are preventing because at the end of the day your average non root user like myself will run into this issue and so far as far as we all know once you do, that's the end of that. And I highly doubt any carrier is going to continue to support the simple fact that the factory reset has caused the google wallet app to completely lock the user out. In my case a simple mistake ended up disabling a huge selling point to this new NFC feature. And once this issue becomes more widespread on more and more devices they will be less reluctant to issue a new device to every customer that was clueless like myself and only reset to fix a buggy issue such as HTC sense failing 24/7 like in my case.

So I have a great feeling that either the carriers will not support google wallet if this issue continues and becomes more and more wide spread as the newer NFC devices come out because this security issue is understandable but without providing a way to regain access via phone call to google or something of the sort is just horrible!! I mean how do they expect this app to grow popularity if a simple honest reset designed to fix bugs on all phones disables that app permanently not only will this spread the hate for the lack of support of this issue through Carriers but through google and the phone companies. So if this issue persists and no support or fix is implemented I strongly feel google wallet will soon lose its fans as well as carrier/sponsor support. Because this is just poor thinking overall. Great way to ensure security but horrible decision in this type of manner because like my situation anyone who does not know to disable and clear the data before via root or factory reset like myself they will soon find out that now the newest feature available overall for devices like the g nexus and evo 4g LTE for instance.

which is incredible NFC is a huge step in technology but once you permanently lose it as simple as I did unwillingly it then loses its value and now you have an upset customer and a customer who may need a whole new device which could relay more $$$ costs to the customer or the carrier depending on the specific situation. In my case my phone isn't even 3 days old just yet and unknowingly I did a reset to fix a completely different issue which it did fix but not for long and now it has ruined the app overall which is absolutely absurd and not very friendly given that's all it took which I know I will not be the only one so this will become a huge wide spread problem for sure in no time and then what? New devices for everyone? Highly doubt that ! So google needs to implement a better security issue for people who accidentaly "brick" the app and lose their access because a whole new device being required to regain access is not in any way okay with me and I'm sure I won't be alone in that opinion. And the less people that can use it due to being locked out like me will only hinder the app on a larger scale and that is not good for business whatsoever.

 

[Deleted User]

Ok ... I probably have missed.it, because when you post, you post A LOT.

I honestly don't know exactly what the problem is. While there appesrs to be a problem with Wallet and a factory reset, most of the early comments in this thread appeared to be posted in haste and don't exactly make a complete thought. No disrespect meant to anyone. Just hard to read through 10 posts and link to elsewhere to do the same to learn of the problem.

Anyway, why won't Sprint exchange it?

I would drive to a different store. Don't tell them what happened. Just say "the shit is broke, see? "