3G to 4G difference and possiblity

[Boulder257]

I keep hearing about 4G but am curious if it is something that Verizon is going to do, when it will happen, and what it will mean to the consumer. Can anyone help me to understand this?

Thanks,

 

[fatcanadian21]

I hope someone answers this because I'm thinking the same thing

 

[skunkpbguy]

Fast and simple answers, yes Vzw plans to do 4G and will roll it out before 2011 for many major US population centers, there are two types of 4G and apparently LTE is the type Vzw will use. I'm still reading on this and hope to learn more as well!

edit: http://phandroid.com/2010/03/08/verizons-4g-lte-easily-beats-3g-evdo-rev-a/

 

[kyler13]

I keep hearing about 4G but am curious if it is something that Verizon is going to do, when it will happen, and what it will mean to the consumer. Can anyone help me to understand this?

Thanks,

Verizon is working on a 4G network right now and they have selected LTE (vs. WiMax). They hope to have 25-30 markets live by the end of this year. What does that mean for cell phone users? Not much right now, or this year. It will start with wireless data cards for laptops, and they intend to have their first 4G handset mid-next-year. What about 3G/4G interoperibility? 4G handsets provided by Verizon will be backward compatible with the 3G network so you'll still get the same nationwide coverage. Also, your old phones will work for a long time. The 3G network isn't going anywhere until Verizon completely upgrades their footprint which may take most of the decade. The great thing about using LTE for 4G is that this is the same technology migration path for existing GSM/UMTS carriers worldwide. It means Verizon will be compatible (at least tech-wise) with AT&T, T-Mobile as well as many other international carriers. LTE is SIM card based, like GSM. As of yet, I'm not sure how frequency compatibility will be handled (ie. like the fact AT&T uses the same technology for 3G as Europe but they use different frequencies which means the phones won't work over there). Regardless of how they handle radio integration, utilizing a network technology adopted by the majority of the world will result in faster availability of hardware. Right now, phones like the HTC Incredible must be designed/built from the ground up to work with CDMA technology which is a much more daunting task than swapping radios for frequency compatibility.

 

[IOWA]

Then downfall of Verizons LTE is they will be utilizing 700Mhz, which will help range, but less data will be carried through the signal, vs. 2500 mhz band Sprint is using with WiMax, which allows for a much higher load, resulting in faster speeds, and more capacity per tower.

 

[Lemurion]

Then downfall of Verizons LTE is they will be utilizing 700Mhz, which will help range, but less data will be carried through the signal, vs. 2500 mhz band Sprint is using with WiMax, which allows for a much higher load, resulting in faster speeds, and more capacity per tower.

It's a tradeoff - Verizon will have less capacity, but far better building penetration. Sprint's 2500MHz WiMax will likely have worse indoor coverage than most 1900MHz GSM/CDMA does now.

 

[gruss]

depends on how many channels they can utilize too. 1 to 1 sure 2500mhz will carry more data, but how much spectrum do they have available versus verizon? I'm really not sure and just throwing it out there because to be honest if I can watch youtube and stream pandora I'm fine with the speeds. In my experiance VZW data has been slower than sprints anyway, BUT, I can drive through the boondocks streaming music and never buffer, couldnt do that with sprint or anyone else. I'll take "fast enough" over spotty anyday.

 

[vandyblackandgold]

you wanna know something funny?

when i bought my droid a little over a month ago, i got to chit-chatting with the nice lady who took care of me at the vzw store that day and she was all like, "YEAH! Nashville will be 4G covered by this summer, its one of the initial 25-30 markets!"

so I said thats cool but it doesnt matter because I dont have a 4G phone and she said,

"No. You will be okay. The Droid is 4G compatible!"

 

[Lemurion]

you wanna know something funny?

when i bought my droid a little over a month ago, i got to chit-chatting with the nice lady who took care of me at the vzw store that day and she was all like, "YEAH! Nashville will be 4G covered by this summer, its one of the initial 25-30 markets!"

so I said thats cool but it doesnt matter because I dont have a 4G phone and she said,

"No. You will be okay. The Droid is 4G compatible!"

Funny thing is that the store rep we bought our Droids from in VA also said the Droid was 4G compatible; and he was the Manager.

 

[drhill]

Then downfall of Verizons LTE is they will be utilizing 700Mhz, which will help range, but less data will be carried through the signal, vs. 2500 mhz band Sprint is using with WiMax, which allows for a much higher load, resulting in faster speeds, and more capacity per tower.

If I can get around a constant minumum of 10mpbs down and 2+ mpbs up with a low ping to the first hop that would be enough. What are you really going to do that would require more. You will never need to do HD video on such small screens so streaming SD would fit fine.

 

[trav473]

funny, this article says VZW will be launching 4G data cards BEFORE they offer a 4G compatible phone........
LTE Phone From Verizon Expected Mid-2011 - HotHardware

 

[kyler13]

It's a tradeoff - Verizon will have less capacity, but far better building penetration. Sprint's 2500MHz WiMax will likely have worse indoor coverage than most 1900MHz GSM/CDMA does now.

WiMax is gonna absolutely BLOW in NYC. They'll need a cell at every freaking intersection.

 

[gruss]

If I can get around a constant minumum of 10mpbs down and 2+ mpbs up with a low ping to the first hop that would be enough. What are you really going to do that would require more. You will never need to do HD video on such small screens so streaming SD would fit fine.

I know in 5 years this will sound stupid but what could you possibly be doing on your phone tbat would require that kind of connection?

 

[trav473]

I know in 5 years this will sound stupid but what could you possibly be doing on your phone tbat would require that kind of connection?

well, when the world wide earthquake levels everything, and everyone had RFID chip implants, the authorities will all have wireless highspeed micro-computers to track everyone and control their every moment........ gonna need the speed to access realtime data from the "Network" and small "phone sized" portability.

 

[IOWA]

depends on how many channels they can utilize too. 1 to 1 sure 2500mhz will carry more data, but how much spectrum do they have available versus verizon? I'm really not sure and just throwing it out there because to be honest if I can watch youtube and stream pandora I'm fine with the speeds. In my experiance VZW data has been slower than sprints anyway, BUT, I can drive through the boondocks streaming music and never buffer, couldnt do that with sprint or anyone else. I'll take "fast enough" over spotty anyday.

Actually right now Sprint is the king of spectrum(Thats why they bought nextel), I think... I'm going to have to look into it myself, I know they had the most BEFORE the Alltel/Verizon Buyout.

Also, when everything gets upgraded, and we start to reach the limits of its capacity, that's when 2500GHZ will really start rocking. And if this Clearwire/Sprint/Walmart tower deal goes through, we are talking some major coverage....

But I ask this, Why go 4G on a lower spectrum, if your bandwidth is limited (by the frequency) to current 3G throughput?



EDIT:

I know in 5 years this will sound stupid but what could you possibly be doing on your phone tbat would require that kind of connection?

Have you seen the ways computers/mobile/wireless have been advancing lately?

Going from 200mhz to 1Ghz in about a year maybe two years time? That's INSANE. Add some ram to these bad boys, and you'll have the equivalent off a P4+ Computer...... IN YOUR POCKET!

 

[drhill]

I know in 5 years this will sound stupid but what could you possibly be doing on your phone tbat would require that kind of connection?

I actually think those are very low bandwidth requirements. It would provide quick web pages loading, good quality VOIP, and SD video streaming. That's all I expect I ever need because it isn't like I'll be downloading files on it. I won't play games and even then they would only need low pin.

 

[skunkpbguy]

Funny thing is that the store rep we bought our Droids from in VA also said the Droid was 4G compatible; and he was the Manager.

Did you believe everything the Recruiters told you?

 

[Lemurion]

Did you believe everything the Recruiters told you?

Nope - but I did think it worth commenting on how widespread the story is - and that even store managers are spreading it.

 

[Lemurion]

But I ask this, Why go 4G on a lower spectrum, if your bandwidth is limited (by the frequency) to current 3G throughput?

So that your customers don't have to go outside to get a 4G signal. Higher frequencies may have more bandwidth, but they have notoriously poor building penetration; no business is going to fork out the money to switch everyone to 4G if the phones don't work indoors.

I'm not saying that Sprint's 2500MHz 4G won't work indoors - however it will have much less building penetration than Verizon's 700MHz 4G and for some customers that is going to be an issue.

It all depends on what's most important. More bandwidth in perfect outdoor conditions or better reception in buildings and parking garages and the like.

 

[vandyblackandgold]

So that your customers don't have to go outside to get a 4G signal. Higher frequencies may have more bandwidth, but they have notoriously poor building penetration; no business is going to fork out the money to switch everyone to 4G if the phones don't work indoors.

I'm not saying that Sprint's 2500MHz 4G won't work indoors - however it will have much less building penetration than Verizon's 700MHz 4G and for some customers that is going to be an issue.

It all depends on what's most important. More bandwidth in perfect outdoor conditions or better reception in buildings and parking garages and the like.

i think the MHz debate is a moot point...ultimately i think we are putting the cart before the horse here....

so what verizon is using the 700MHz spectrum!? they have tested it upwards of 50mbps download speeds and all trusted sources interpret this to mean that real world speed should still come in around 10mbps download. what on earth do you plan on doing on your phone on the first day of 4G that will strain on your 10mbps download speed!?

 

[IOWA]

i think the MHz debate is a moot point...ultimately i think we are putting the cart before the horse here....

so what verizon is using the 700MHz spectrum!? they have tested it upwards of 50mbps download speeds and all trusted sources interpret this to mean that real world speed should still come in around 10mbps download. what on earth do you plan on doing on your phone on the first day of 4G that will strain on your 10mbps download speed!?

and on the 2500mhz spectrum you can reach a quite bit higher than that...

 

[IOWA]

sprints frequency will penetrate buildings just fine, not as well as verizons but as good as 3g does, and with those bandwidths it'll still rock indoors (read DOES for when im at home using my 4g laptop card) sprint's only downside is they have to have more towers located in the same area, BUT that is also a PLUS as the towers will never get clogged, when you start spreading towers out too far, you get ALOT of poeple on ONE tower, and it gets hosed....

Yup. ATT anyone? lol

 

[vandyblackandgold]

and on the 2500mhz spectrum you can reach a quite bit higher than that...

but why do you need it? i can see how maybe 10 years from now 20mbps+ could become the standard as we move towards an all HD world, but why now? i have 8mbps cable coming into the house and have never thought twice about streaming netflix in HD and experienced lag in any form. then i browse the internet on my droid and am more than pleased with its speed.

i understand what you are saying, i really do, but again i ask, whats the point?

 

[IOWA]

but why do you need it? i can see how maybe 10 years from now 20mbps+ could become the standard as we move towards an all HD world, but why now? i have 8mbps cable coming into the house and have never thought twice about streaming netflix in HD and experienced lag in any form. then i browse the internet on my droid and am more than pleased with its speed.

i understand what you are saying, i really do, but again i ask, whats the point?

Do you think HD is not going to get any better? Look at the past, and look at why things have advanced, and how rapidly they have evolved.

 

[vandyblackandgold]

Do you think HD is not going to get any better? Look at the past, and look at why things have advanced, and how rapidly they have evolved.

sure...just not anytime soon....

i mean, HD has technically been around since the 80's and how long did it take to reach the consumer?

cable lines have yet to broadcast a 1080p signal (and comcast was just rumored to want to compress even more to save bandwidth) and we are discussing bringing this to cell phones asap.

i just dont see it happening for quite some time, at which we will probably be pushing a 5G technology at that point.