Healthcare Reform - Obama

[toasty]

via Wonkette

Did you know that your precious Death Panel legislation includes a mandate to resurrect the corpse of Karl Marx thrice yearly, or else face a maximum penalty of one percent of your income plus ten minutes in a dark room with John Boehner? Look at the President chortling as he zaps Marx to life! He probably didn

 

[toasty]

also via Wonkette:

No one should be scared about this health care bill, except for this elderly lady, who thinks the government will show up to her door Monday morning and murder her. Sucks to be her, because she

 

[mancow]

Just saw Ed Rendell on O'Reilly quoting Marx. This line of thought come so easy to these people that this moron didn't even realize what he was saying. Bill challenged him and told him that it's the entitlement welfare society mentality that is angering people and Rendell responded by saying they will all pay in too "According to their means".

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his need" is Marx's famous quote and this tool just spits it out like it's an everyday American slogan.

These people are insane and dangerous.

 

[mancow]

Don't forget the beer, surely it will have been deemed unhealthy and illegal by then.

k im going to cryotank myself, someone wake me when it's all good and texas has ceded? thanks, i might wait till i get my SS though so i can atleast be cool when frozen

 

[IOWA]

if texas cedes ill move to texas

 

[Teh_Higgins]

also via Wonkette:

No one should be scared about this health care bill, except for this elderly lady, who thinks the government will show up to her door Monday morning and murder her. Sucks to be her, because she

 

[IOWA]

Yeah, and soon they will outlaw sex like in demolition man, because it can spread std's

 

[mancow]

This is the source of the fear from those of us that don't quite believe the sun sets and rises in the rear of the chosen one.

When you hand over blanket authorization that allows a bureaucracy (that hasn't even been created yet) to create the rules as they go you open up the possibility of the limitation of almost any substance, product or behavior based on it's effect to "health" as they have defined by some obscure method or supposed research. In doing so you negate the basic legislative and legal processes that are the foundation of our intended form of government.

The most frightening part is that with the Nationalization of the auto industry, financial industry, and now health (read individual) and education system, this Administration has achieved in one year what an entire super power could never dream of during the so called cold war.

 

[SamuraiBigEd]

if texas cedes ill move to texas

It has actually been mentioned by the Gubernatorial candidates...we can only hope!

 

[jamestown]

Did the healthcare forget that there are still about 20% of americans not working!!!? And what are they going to do show up at there door steps saying you owe us $700 for not having insurance! that guy/gal should tell them he has a nice casio watch will that do? I just don't understand why this at least couldn't wait until you could have worked on stabilizing jobs for people and get them working. Maybe even give them more time to look over the bill and make some changes and get more ideas from both sides!

 

[IOWA]

The people need to revolt.... civil war even....

 

[mrletternumber]

I'll go through it again. Maybe this time it will sink in. You can verify these facts by - here's a novel idea - actually reading the bill!

It really gets my goat when people don't even bother reading the bill (or even looking at a summary of it - how many people commenting here actually read it?) but have a very strong opinion to spout off about it. I'm not defending the bill - I'm defending the idea that as an American citizen, you have a responsibility to understand the legislature that's being passed.

"IT'LL RAISE MY TAXES!!! WAHHHH! gurgle"

Not unless you make over $200,000 a year (at which point you'll see a .9% tax increase - big whoop, Scrooge McDuck), or you pay $10,200 or more a year for your own insurance or $27,500 for a family (adjusted for inflation). The limits for retirees or people in high-risk professions will be even higher. Nobody NEEDS $10,000 insurance - those plans are ways of getting country club memberships and massages without paying tax on that money (you know, wealthy people who abuse the system). This bill fixes that.

"SOCIALIZED MEDICINE WAAAUGH!!!"

The public option component is very limited in scope and is probably the least important part of this bill. It's a catch-all way to provide for people that just can't get insurance otherwise. Employers are getting so many tax incentives to provide insurance under this bill that it'd be idiotic not to offer insurance to employees. The public option basically lets people who have no other option (the self-employed, unemployed, etc.) buy into Medicare. They'll get a tax credit to help defray the costs, but for all intents and purposes it'll be their money paying for it, not yours.

"TIGHTER GOVERNMENT REGULATION ON INSURANCE PROVIDERS WILL DRIVE UP PREMIUMS!!! BLURGH BLAGH!"

Well, I'm with you on that. But tighter regulation needed to happen, and it was going to happen regardless of who's running the show in Washington. It's insane how little regard insurance companies actually have for their customers' health, and any way they can find to screw you, they will. This bill will hopefully prevent some of that.

The level of ignorance here is really astounding and it's hard to argue with multiple people who don't understand the most basic aspects of this bill. I'm embarrassed to be American when there are folks who will passionately argue about this bill without actually having read it. The America I belong to is the intelligent and civil America that informs itself about things before it opens it's mouth. Not the bumbling dimwitted America that will argue a bill it hasn't even read and regurgitates it's talking points from uneducated buffoons like Beck and Limbaugh whose highest grade completed was the 12th grade. They're using you like a carpenter uses a hammer - you're a tool. I don't know about you but where I come from the idiots in school were ridiculed, not put on a pedestal and followed.

Please think for yourself. Start by reading the bill and coming up with your own thoughts about it.

 

[mrletternumber]

The people need to revolt.... civil war even....

*yawn*

Spare us your empty threats.

 

[mrletternumber]

Here's an idea. Let's go further and make some of you happy by creating a perfect libertarian society:

Private fire departments: Why should I pay if your house is on fire. I was responsible and didn't let a fire affect my house. If your house or business is on fire, then you pay the cost to put it out.

Private security firms replace police departments: I carry around a can of mace and a gun to protect myself. If we all did that, criminals would be too afraid to commit crimes and police would be unnecessary. If your house is broken into or you're attacked, then pay a security firm yourself to investigate. Reckless driving can sort itself out - you do it too much, you'll probably kill yourself. It's all about personal responsibility. I don't want the government patrolling the streets and checking up on what I'm doing.

Employer-based education: If you have a job, then they can subsidize your child's education and you can afford to put your child in school. This can reduce the number of births by people not economically fit to have children! If you lose your job, you can pay COBRA for a few months. When COBRA runs out, you can take the kid out of school until you get a job again or pay $2000/month for him/her to stay in. You can opt out of the system altogether - an estimated 30-40% of children would be without any formal education, but we'll be out of the tyranny of government-controlled education. Take that China! If it makes sense for a life-or-death situation like health care, then it should make sense for all issues.

Eliminate Libraries: They're like Napster for the publishing world (books and copyrighted material for free?). I don't read, so why should I pay for someone else's access to literature and information? Go to Amazon if you want to read or watch Fox News if you want information. If you can't afford to buy a book or a cable subscription, then you don't belong in my neighborhood anyway.

And what's this crap with national parks? Wasn't that from Theodore Roosevelt's time (a guy who used 'bully' as a primary staple of his vocabulary)?! I hate nature and I resent that I'm paying for someone to take a hike or go camping for the weekend when they should be working. National Parks equals rangers, which equals a bigger government! Not to mention all the oil that may or may not be under that land.

How about public transportation? Why should I pay for someone to take a train or a bus? As long as my roads are paved and I can drive my SUV to work let the public transportation system sustain itself.

And why is my tax money paying for your roads to be paved? I don't use the same roads as you and it's not my fault that your Hyundai can't go off-road. If you don't like it, then go to Canada. I'm sure they have smooth roads where you'll have to wait in traffic for hours while my $75,000 SUV can go wherever it wants to bypass traffic.

Maybe we also need to privatize fire hydrants, water supply and fire trucks. If the matter is a simple as a cat up a tree, the following does not apply:

1. If there is a fire, the rightful fire hydrant owner can charge a fee (the free market will sort this out) so that the privately owned fire trucks can use the hydrant.

2. The water coming out of the hydrant will be owned by the privately held water company. They can put a meter inside the hydrant and charge by the size of the fire.

3. The government should not restrict the possibility of the water owner, the hydrant owner and the fire truck owner all being owned by the same monopoly or cartel.

4. Ownership of the street area used by the truck should also be private. A parking fee will be assessed (the free market should sort this out too.)

I could keep all my precious monies for myself if we get rid of all this wasteful spending!

Scary and expensive place the world in which some of you want the rest of us to live.

 

[toasty]

W's speech writer David Frum's take on the political ramifications of the passage of health care:

Conservatives and Republicans today suffered their most crushing legislative defeat since the 1960s.

It

 

[mancow]

It must be pure bliss to be so naive. To truly believe that the ultimate goal of this bill has anything to do with your health care is a joke. Do you truly believe that these people care about your well being?

 

[IOWA]

You guys are missing the point entirely. Really.

This bill is not financially sustainable, unless you rob rich people.
If people who are sucessful get stripped of their money, just because they have it, there is little or no incentive to be productive. No productivity we can kiss fancy new inventions like the phone your using, goodbye.

No new innovation leads to consumers not spending as much, as they already have what's on the market, and noone has made anything new, because there is no reason to.

Less spending, means economic collapse.

Now I've dumbed that down as much as possible for you lefties who do not understand the concept of free enterprise.

Government should not interfere with the private sector, unless it is becoming tryant like and monopolistic..

Governement should NEVER EVER EVER EVER compete with the private sector.

What you obama supporters are failing to see, this is another step towards the socialissm,bwhich in turn is a step towards communism. People being ok with the government controlling so many aspects of our lives is mind bogglingly stupid.

 

[CampD]

yea lemme know when you finish 3,000 plus pages of legislation, ethics isn't involved in our government any more and you know it, stop acting like such a smart ass and start thinking for yourself... the people who voted on it didn't even have time to read it

X2 I'm with ya.
This clown "mrletternumber" either works for the Gov. wrote part of this legistation or stands to benefit from this bill directly. 65% of America opposses this bill (the hard working middle class) take out the 10% of uninsured who will benifit (for awhile anyway) that leaves 25%, take out 7% for the rich (we'll leave out the Bankers and Insurance exec's who could care less, they allready got their handout) which leaves 18%,, of those left, they either work for the goverment or stand to benefit greatly.

I'm willing to bet that somewhere buried in that 3000 page bill is the words "we dont care what you think and will raise the cost of this bill at anytime and any way we want" or some version of Lawyer speak.

 

[Dark Jedi]

if this health care is so great why don't the democraps drop their gov golden spoon healthcare plan and take this? I will tell you why because they know it sucks ass like every other program they have done in years past.

also how is a majority of small businesses suppose to pay for this to offer their workers. when they don't have the funds in the first place. this will make more small businesses go under and unemployment go higher and then I and everyone else pay even higher taxes to cover them.

since when does the rich ever pay anything the gov wants. after all its their money that got those idiots into office. when its the middle class which is left holding the bill as usual. the rich knows to many loopholes to keep a majority of their money safe.

again medicare is a big flop, medicaid is another one. why not try and fix those two before taking on an even bigger flop.

has obama even read the 3,000 page bill. bet ya not. bet he got a summery

 

[mrletternumber]

W's speech writer David Frum's take on the political ramifications of the passage of health care

Such is rare, the conservative with a brain, a sense of civility, and humility.

What cracks me up is how batshit crazy everyone on the right is going on about this bill yet...

wait for it...Frum alluded to it...

Most of this bill is exactly what Republicans were asking for back in the 90's!!!

As Frum said:

But we do know that the gap between this plan and traditional Republican ideas is not very big. The Obama plan has a broad family resemblance to Mitt Romney

 

[Crude]

That's just it, this bill is not financially sustainable. It's the beginning of foot in the door policies that will cause this monster to grow. Already some dem is trying to "add" the public option back in after it was taken out to gain votes.

Also, for the record I don't believe the US will see another civil war. The first was FAR too bloody and face it the conservatives have the guns...so there isn't gonna be any resistance. In large the military is conservative. That being said I doubt anything is going to happen for the sole reason that there are far too many arm chair commandos and not enough patriots that will organize. Remember to overthrough the government you will need public support my experiance is that there are actually a handful of Americans that want this bill MOST have no clue why. Worse then that is the large percent of Americans that do not participate in politics at all. I'd say less based on what I see in my area less then 20% of the people I run into are politically active and educated. By educated I don't mean school either, I mean history. Either way talk of revolt is not productive right now. When it is I will pack my scary black rifles and join the fight.

 

[Crude]

I'm willing to bet that somewhere buried in that 3000 page bill is the words "we dont care what you think and will raise the cost of this bill at anytime and any way we want" or some version of Lawyer speak.

I got the joke....

 

[toasty]

If people who are sucessful get stripped of their money, just because they have it, there is little or no incentive to be productive. No productivity we can kiss fancy new inventions like the phone your using, goodbye.

No new innovation leads to consumers not spending as much, as they already have what's on the market, and noone has made anything new, because there is no reason to.

Less spending, means economic collapse.

Over the course of our nation's history, taxes have gone up, taxes have gone down, and none of these things have happened. People don't stop innovating because their taxes go up. It hasn't happened in the past, and it won't happen now, even if taxes do go up.

Governement should NEVER EVER EVER EVER compete with the private sector.

Why not? The government and the private sector already compete on numerous different fronts, with shipping and education being the most obvious examples. Frankly, the competition in both of those realms has resulted in more choice and better pricing for consumers. Oh, and the innovation you were speaking of earlier. I'm not sure I understand why that's a bad thing.

 

[CampD]

Duh. How stupid are you? Read a book with more words than pictures please. Or better yet, read the bill!

Read the Bill! tell me you assclown,,isn't that what we elect our reps for? to read the bill for us, why most of them have addmitted to not reading or understanding it and yet they still voted for it. That is exactly what is wrong with Gov today, they think they know whats best for us. Read the bill, talk about a yawn, hell I bet there's no pictures!

 

[3devious]

I love how people think we are giving poor people healthcare. We are giving people health insurance. People believe that people with pre-existing health conditions will suddenly be covered. Guess what: In some states they already are. If you have coverage in Virginia, any insurance company you choose has to cover you. Of course the price ceiling on the insurance you are entitled to is still pretty high. This bill is remarkably silent on this as well.

This bill is not really going to help that many people, it is just going to cost a lot of money. There are a bunch of ignorant people who bang the drum about doing the right thing, well it isn't being done here. People want to make it a moral argument, but it is just a bunch of nonsense.

What is even better is that the same people who say that the State can do all of this for us are pointing to government programs as shining examples of how our government can improve our health. They are pointing to Medicare and the VA. Both of these programs are epic failures overall with some successes that make these people feel as if their argument is supposted. If these programs are so great, why are they being castrated in an effort to reduce waste?

Another shining example of government service people like to put on a pedestal is the postal service. "For a nominal fee, I can send a letter across the country in 3 days!" They always trivialize the recounts of lost mail (even when an alarming number of carriers have been caught stealing mail or just leaving it in their attic because it was to bothersome to actually deliver.) This is what our government can do for us and you are a bad person if you want some corporation to deliver your mail for you. How dare you pay Fedex or UPS to get your package there in a day? What? You expect reliability? Now, you are just unamerican. The postal service is the best thing the government offers... Yeah? Well, why is its budget so grossly overrun that they can't even think of a way of sustaining themselves without reducing the days of service by one?

Politicians love to use government programs as a bargaining chip for demanding more taxes or getting rid of other programs they don't like. Aren't you glad that we've given them more chips at the table by expanding their control over healthcare?