Official Pink Floyd Thread

[Speed Daemon]

You don't like Animals, the Wall or Final Cut?

I never said I didn't like them. They can't hold a candle to Wish You Were Here and Dark Side, though. Previous and subsequent PF albums were more musical and joyful. Waters was not a good musician then, and the only saving grace was Gilmour and Wright's skills. By "Animals", Waters' lyrics were so deeply unhappy and bitter that they dragged everything else down.

Back then I was young we listened because it was Pink Floyd and Pink Floyd was great. But as I matured and became truly honest with myself, I had to admit that I wished that I could edit the Waters part out of the later PF stuff. I even said that I wish that, when it seemed like PF was over, that they would have fired Waters not Wright. When the group came back in '86 with the lineup that I wanted, my friends thought I was a prophet! (It was only a very happy coincidence however.)

Think of it this way, what is the most memorable part of the Waters period? David Gilmour's guitar solo from "Comfortably Numb". That's one tune off an entire double album!

He practically wrote all 3 on his own.

Yes, that's the problem. Waters was a bully. He didn't let others contribute, then berated them for not contributing. Gilmour's solo album of '78, and especially Wright's of the same year show the caliber of musical talent that Waters was driving away from Pink Floyd. I'll take tunes like "Raise my Rent" and "Funky Deux" over the last remix of "Raving and Drooling" and "You Gotta Be Crazy" any day.

His solo albums are amazing too...

You're entitled to your opinion, of course. I'll let the album sales numbers and concert attendance at the Pink Floyd trio concerts vs. Waters' solo concerts speak for themselves.

I love all the members of Floyd but Waters was without a doubt the largest contributor Lyrically and Musically.

We'll have to agree to disagree on that. I can't imagine a successful Pink Floyd without Gilmour or Wright; I have seen a successful Pink Floyd without Waters.

(Waters) was a control freak and probably not a nice guy to work with but that made Floyd the monster they were.

No, Waters' truly cruel and hateful abuse of his bandmates was a destructive force. No good at all came of it. Rick Wright was a sensitive guy, as good musicians tend to be. Waters' nasty and very personal attacks hurt Wright more than any physical beating could. I blame Waters for making Wright's poor health worse, leading to his early death. It takes a special kind of asshole to have made a fortune off of a former bandmate's mental illness and then go kick another while he was down.*

*Syd Barrett suffered from an undiagnosed mental illness, probably schizophrenia. Richard Wright was suffering from clinical depression in the late '70s and early '80s, related to his working conditions with PF, and the decay of his marriage at the same time. Barret died of natural causes in 2006. Schizophrenics tend to have a shorter lifespan. Wright died of cancer in 2008. The type of cancer and when it was first diagnosed hasn't been made public.

 

[Wilkas]

Although I do agree with some of the things you say, I don't want to appear to be siding with Waters over Gilmour or Wright as I can't imagine Floyd without either, I enjoyed the Final Cut but without Rick it didn't seem like a Floyd album. Some of the things you say I see from a different point of view.

You've said you would like to edit Waters out of later Floyd stuff, he wrote the stuff, without him there wouldn't be later stuff. I love MLOR and TDB but they were missing something, the difference between a good album and a great album. Neither album was a patch on anything Waters was involved in.

Waters has accepted recently that he was to blame for a lot of the things that happened, there's a video of him saying that if he could take it back he would but in his defence he was coming to the table with a full album, in the case of the wall he had two full album concepts with demo's.. the other guys didn't have anything.

I don't think of comfortably numb's guitar solo as the only highlight of the wall, I like all of it from the songs to the film to the stage show, all of which was Rogers concept. I think you see the music as the important part and I see the lyrics as the important part... he is dark no doubt but that is what was great about Floyd, the balance between weighty dark lyrics and beautiful uplifting music.

You say that "I have seen a successful Pink Floyd without Waters." but you haven't, on both tours Gilmours Pink Floyd played Rogers music, on the Division Bell album tour they played Dark Side of The Moon in full and more songs from the back catalogue than songs off division bell, while Guy Pratt might have been doing Rogers part (brilliantly) the lyrics, the stage show and the music is by waters so how is that a band leaving him behind?

Rick Wright died of Cancer, years after Waters had left Floyd, a while after they had performed again together which he said he loved.. his death was nothing to do with him, being depressed doesn't give you cancer. Also Syd Barratts mental illness was a defining moment for all the band, Shine on you crazy diamond as I'm sure you know is about him, he turned up during the making of it and was paid as a part of the band, it's natural that a writer would write about the defining things that have happened in his life.

Lastly you made a point about letting album sales and concert ticket sales speak for themselves, Justin Bieber sells out arenas all over the world and also a shed load of albums too... he's crap and I wont have any facts and figures tell me anything different. Waters might not have set the world on fire at the time but the pro's and cons could have been a Floyd album (was the other concept at the wall meetings) and amused to death is a beautiful piece of work.

 

[Bob Cat]

I like the music regardless of ticket sales or who was in the band or anything else. Isn't that really what's it all about? The music. All the rest of the issues would only interest me if I had an investment in them.

 

[Speed Daemon]

Although I do agree with some of the things you say, I don't want to appear to be siding with Waters over Gilmour or Wright as I can't imagine Floyd without either...

It is a matter of opinion and personal choice, after all. I see Waters as the member of PF who brought too many of his personal demons to the group, and too little musicianship. You see it the other way around. At the risk of being branded a heretic, I'll say that Syd Barrett also failed the group with his drug experimentation gone horribly wrong. Sid was replaced and PF went on to be greater than ever with Dave.

I enjoyed the Final Cut but without Rick it didn't seem like a Floyd album.

In many ways "The Final Cut" wasn't a Pink Floyd album. It was all about Roger and what Roger wanted, which is what tainted "The Wall" and "Animals" in lesser degrees. Musically it still had Gilmour, but his playing sounds half-hearted and less inspired. A lot of the backing tracks seemed to have been taken straight from the "The Wall" master tapes. But it lacked something. Pink wasn't there.

You've said you would like to edit Waters out of later Floyd stuff, he wrote the stuff, without him there wouldn't be later stuff.

It's important that I said that as an idle desire, not a plan to get the albums remixed or anything like that. And since I got my wish, albeit a bit late I can say that I'm pleased with the outcome.

As I mentioned in my last post, both Gilmour and Wright were writing excellent music as solo artists. Clearly they were able to write for PF as well, if they had been free to do so. What's done is done, and it's pointless to speculate on an opportunity lost.

I love MLOR and TDB but they were missing something, the difference between a good album and a great album. Neither album was a patch on anything Waters was involved in.

Again, you're entitled to your opinions, as am I. I think that any AOR band is lucky to have one really big album, and PF had two. I still play "Learning to Fly" and "Terminal Frost" a lot. Maybe they weren't the most memorable PF albums, but they were PF albums and did have some great tunes. I wouldn't say that a band that has matured over 25 years was "missing something".

Waters has accepted recently that he was to blame for a lot of the things that happened, there's a video of him saying that if he could take it back he would but in his defence he was coming to the table with a full album, in the case of the wall he had two full album concepts with demo's.. the other guys didn't have anything.

Yes I've noticed that Waters is keen to rehabilitate his public image. But I haven't heard "I'm sorry", and have heard that off-camera he's still unrepentant.

I don't see how you can rightly call "The Wall" as a "defence" of Waters' poor behavior. It might as well have been a solo album. It would be interesting to find a parallel universe where "The Wall" was a Roger Waters album, and see how it sounds without any musical input from Gilmour, Mason and Wright. Since we cant, I'll point out that, even after firing and alienating Rick Wright, that Waters was forced to hire him as a salaried employee in order to pull it off. Because of that, Wright was the only one who made money from "The Wall".

I think you see the music as the important part and I see the lyrics as the important part...

Yes, I'm a listener of music first and foremost. Pink Floyd was a musical band; their trademark sound came from their expert use of the recording studio to produce layered sounds and other innovative stuff. I don't care one bit to listen to Waters prattle on about "poor me, I lost my father in the war" over and over and over again. If that's your cup of tea, good for you.

(Waters) is dark no doubt but that is what was great about Floyd, the balance between weighty dark lyrics and beautiful uplifting music.

My answer to this reworded version of your statement remains unchanged.

You say that "I have seen a successful Pink Floyd without Waters." but you haven't...

You're free to believe what you want, but that's simply not true. I did see it with my very own eyes, heard it with my very own ears, several times.

While it's true that Waters had to play Pink Floyd music in order to turn a profit on his tours, Pink Floyd did NOT play Waters' solo material. Not once! Nor did they play any of the other PF members' solo work. Nice try, but no sale here.

Here's a suggestion: Since you're such a big Roger Waters fan, why not start up a new thread about Waters? You can defend him to your heart's content there, and leave this thread for people who want to discuss Pink Floyd without any divisiveness. I'm growing tired of setting the record straight; that's not why I check in here and I don't want to do it any more.

 

[Speed Daemon]

I like the music regardless of ticket sales or who was in the band or anything else. Isn't that really what's it all about? The music. All the rest of the issues would only interest me if I had an investment in them.

I agree that the music is the important part.

OTOH you must understand that Pink Floyd was a band that simply didn't speak to the press. A lot of the Pink Floyd story has been untold until just recently. So in this case there is a curiosity about all of the unknowns surrounding Pink Floyd.

 

[Wilkas]

A cool little video, taken from Official David Gilmour's YouTube feed.

Roger Waters + David Gilmour: Comfortably Numb, Live, O2 Arena 2011 - YouTube

 

[argedion]

I can sum up your arguments very quickly

Pink Floyd would not be Pink Floyd with out everything that caused Pink Floyd to do what Pink Floyd Does. Had even 1 member of the band not played a intricate part then Pink Floyd would not have been.

I appreciate the enthusiasm however I did ask that we keep it all Floyd related and we keep it in HONOR of the band. No other group of people could pull off what Pink Floyd has done.

While I love the music of Roger Waters and do believe that his contribution to the band was not only the fuel that kept the flame going I do believe that his own since of Madness and Mortality had drove him to be what he became. A child throwing a temper tantrum. I also believe that Roger singled out Rick because he knew that Rick was really the only one in the band who could relate to Rogers Obscurity. Rick was also the only one that could have really been the blunt of Rogers insanity as Rick was the only one capable of handling it with the amount of humility that he did.

Rick Wright will forever be known as the humble and meek one. Nick mason is the only one who has never missed a Floyd show, David replaced Syd's cruelty and self destructive behavior. and Roger will always be known as the Madman who's own self destructive ways cost the band everything.

I would like to keep from continuing an argument here so would respectfully ask that all party's keep a respectful approach and move toward the intention of this thread which was designed to honor the music and not squabble about the band.

Thanks
Argedion

 

[argedion]

A cool little video, taken from Official David Gilmour's YouTube feed.

Roger Waters + David Gilmour: Comfortably Numb, Live, O2 Arena 2011 - YouTube

for a couple of guys who claim not to be friends they sure do hang out a lot

 

[argedion]

Sadly my concert-T collection that I was saving to mount and frame was thrown out by a stupid person. I still have trinkets from the '86 and '94 tours. I even have a pin from Peter Gabriel's tour supporting his third "Peter Gabriel" album. Can't believe that I wore that on a jacket over a decade of wild situations and didn't lose it!

Hey you knew that stupid person too

I was able to keep 2 (Led Zeppelin MSG in 77 (my first show) ) and Kiss concert reunion tour back in 96/97 I have no other ones Girlfriend thought they were tacky and the only reason the two I have didnt suffer the same fate is because she didn't see them. I only sleep at night knowing that some people at the Salvation Army got a decent shirt/s. Please excuse me I have become angry over the whole situation again and I'll be the one over here: :banghead: <--- this since I can't bang her head into the damned wall.

 

[Wilkas]

for a couple of guys who claim not to be friends they sure do hang out a lot

There's a great extended video of them before and after the show, spending time together and looking thick as thieves, seems like the awkwardness has gone now.. just can't find it but it's there on YouTube somewhere.

The amazing thing was how it came about, Gilmour asked Waters to play a charity gig with him and in return he would play one of his. Really gives me hope that we might see some form of collaboration between them, even if it was just one more song I'd be over the moon, doesn't even have to be under the Floyd banner.

 

[Speed Daemon]

Hey you knew that stupid person too

Looks that way.

At the risk of going off-topic, the women in my life remind me of the Bowie lyric: "I'm stuck with a valuable friend." They all feel the need to organize my life to the point that I can't find my own face in the mirror. :hmmmm2:

 

[TrueNorthist]

I first heard Pink Floyd when I was 7 and can pretty much say 43 years later that they are woven into the very fabric of my soul. There isn't anything they have performed that I dislike, although some really early stuff is a bit too strange even for a weirdo like me. Nevertheless (I love that word) I still regularly pop in a thumb drive with DSOM, Wish You Were Here and Animals on it and listen while dragging a few lures around the lake. Sheer bliss. Ha! Money just came on the radio! Must be an omen.

 

[Speed Daemon]

I just got my latest Pink Floyd relic today:

Can't wait to see this story!
​

 

[tube517]

A cool little video, taken from Official David Gilmour's YouTube feed.

Roger Waters + David Gilmour: Comfortably Numb, Live, O2 Arena 2011 - YouTube

I am not on the level of fandom of you all in this thread but that gave me the chills. What a great moment!:congrats:

 

[Wilkas]

Pink Floyd at Live 8 HD (Full Set) - YouTube

Everyone went nuts when Money started, one of my favourite versions of it. You can't really hear the crowd noise during the video but being there it was really loud, even little kids were singing along. Totally stole the show, nobody came close that day.

You could feel the uncomfortableness of it for them, especially at the end but for a little bit you could feel that they enjoyed it, the solo in money and during comfortably numb they just rocked it. It's the only time I got to see all 4 playing together as I was too young the first time around and I'm grateful I did. RIP Rick Wright, huge miss.

 

[Speed Daemon]

I've been watching the opening ceremonies at the 2012 Olympiad in London, and have been noticing how much of the production has borrowed from Pink Floyd concerts. From the objects moving on suspended cables to the stuff coming up out of the floor, it looked like one big homage to PF.

And wouldn't you know it that after lighting the Olympic flame, that the various petals of the flame pivot up to make a giant flame to the tune of "Eclipse"!

For all PF fans who never got to see them in concert, that's as close as you're going to get to the real thing when it comes to the theatrics.

 

[argedion]

A phone wallpaper

 

[Speed Daemon]

Nice, but I'll take a slightly more modern wallpaper:

​

A phone wallpaper

 

[cjr72]

I was born too late to appreciate Pink Floyd in their prime but I got into them when I was about middle school age in the mid '80s. I listened to it all from their early psychedelic more experimental stuff up through 'The Wall'. Decades later the albums I find myself coming back to are 'Meddle', 'Dark Side of The Moon' and 'Wish You Were Here'.

I am glad that I was old enough to see their 'Momentary Lapse of Reason' and 'Division Bell' tours. The production value was amazing. Other bands I've seen in large open air stadiums tend to get swallowed up by the large venue, Pink Floyd took the stadium over with the laser show, flying pig, etc.

 

[TrueNorthist]

Thanks for both those wallpapers! Very nice. I used to have a bunch of junk that I bought at the Wish You Were Here tour back in '75, but like most of my brain cells I have lost all of them over the years. I do still have a worn lapel pin but unless you know what you are looking at you wouldn't recognize it as anything much. But I still remember what it is.

 

[Wilkas]

Another wallpaper especially for android, love the colours on this one for my one x

 

[argedion]

/\ have this on puter in wide screen i think.

Nice speed.

will have more stuff later including some ringtones I've made. I will also do request for those as long as Paitence is a strong point for you as I am always busy.

 

[Wilkas]

Would love to get a live wallpaper of the hammers walking off the wall.

Just watched the story of wish you were here and really recommend it to everyone, love how Roger hates have a cigar and reckons he could've done it better Was also amazing hearing first hand from the band about Syd turning up during the recording of SOYCD.

 

[Trent Reznor]

I saw Roger Waters play The Wall this spring in Denver. Show was amazing!!! Def in the top 5 concerts I've seen.

 

[787323]

yeah i seen them (roger waters dark side of the moon tour) in 2007 in las vegas at the MGM grand
I have seen a lot of different groups perform and that one was by far the best performance i have been to.
The cool thing was when he was playing the wall or parts of dark side of the moon the visuals/screen projector showed images of the modern day way and it was crazy how all the music fit in todays media just as well as it did 40-50 years ago.
I was blown away and almost felt like crying because i was so moved by his music (esp. when he played wish you were here) you could tell the song meant alot more to him than people like us...you could feel the emotions coming from him and his guitar.
simply wonderful