I support Death2All110!

[OfTheDamned]

Isn't it funny how people will gladly hide behind the anonymity of a forum or email and say things that they wouldn't probably never say to your face. I've been doing this (email, forums and such) kind of stuff since the early 1980's (yep, I'm old...) and early on realized that the safest and least embarrassing thing to do if you get your dander up about something is, before you hit "send", to write it down elsewhere, look it over several times and think about whether you would like someone to act like that towards you.

Very wise words.

I've often discovered, as I'm sure others have too, that what we write in black and white (ok, grayish blue) has no mannerisms or facial expressions attached to it. This unfortunately leaves anything open to interpretation by the reader.

 

[dspl1236]

I miss D2A. He has done great work for us Spectrum owners along with all the other Devs. Now that my work has sent me a LG Lucid...I now have 2 LG android phones with a very very small community and very little support. I am on car forums all day and everything that I have seen on this forum is very mild.

I have seen threads get black holed and post deleted...and then some not at all...this is by far the strictest forum i visit....and makes zero sense to me. This is the internetz, there will always be trolling.

D2A, i hope you work it out with the mods.

my $0.03

 

[Phases]

... I am on car forums all day and everything that I have seen on this forum is very mild...

Exactly.



Anyway, I've said my peace here. I may pop back in later but otherwise - someone PM me if needed.
Cheers..

 

[MrB206]

So first things first, I'm well aware there's no 'freedom of speech' on a private forum and I'm also well aware you all control the rights to the content here.

That said, you all are over-moderating threads AND moderating them in ways that are lopsided. Posts get deleted and the author never knows, posts seemingly benign in nature are deleted because they're the last in a chain of a tangent from the original thread/topic and posts that don't meet your standards are deleted and/or users are banned. It also seems like you enforce on people when they say something you don't like, which is an abuse of a moderator's power. It's your right to enforce on those statements you don't like, sure, but it's akin to a dystopian future like in V for Vendetta.

No one likes repressive police departments and that's basically what you are here.

- Moderate when a post is in the wrong place.
- Warn people when you're notified of a post *AND* it really presents a disruption to the thread/forum (not just one user being pissy about the reply of another)
- Delete posts if they are a pattern of violation and the user was warned.
- Ban when someone has repeatedly flaunted the rules.

All of the above foster a positive environment where the open discourse of ideas and opinions can be presented, while maintaining the integrity of the forum. Otherwise, you're going to push users away. While it's a free service and you may not give a s**t about shunning users, your reputation as a 'source' for Android will slowly erode, as Android is one of the strongest user-based community products on the planet.

There, I've said my peace.

 

[EarlyMon]

Our policy is to PM on all deletes. Being human, we sometimes goof. If we do, please ask your friendly local mod what happened.

The rest I think I addressed above.

 

[MrB206]

I don't think you have. Jumping in to threads where two people are engaged in heated discussion, as I've seen done before, just to break it up, rather than let it run its course, is part of the problem.

If convo turns to personal attacks and really vulgar language, hit 'em... but that's not what I'm seeing.

I came here because it was one of the best places to get info for the LG Spectrum and because I hate the childish crap @ XDA, but y'all are pushing the devs (and users) away, so I have to get my info from other places. Maybe D2A crossed the line, but this isn't even about him... it's about users like ME voicing our concerns over how you're handling the moderation of this site and us telling you we're going to stop using it if it keeps up. I'm sure you're thinking "don't let the door hit ya on the way out...", but it needed to be said.

 

[EarlyMon]

I'm sure you're thinking "don't let the door hit ya on the way out...", but it needed to be said.

Actually, that would be the last thing I'd think about any feedback on us. I'm sad that you believe that of us, or me.

It's easier for us to understand and improve if the going in position on both sides is that the other guy just wants what's best for the site and all of the members here.

That's how I look at you, honestly, and that's the light that I'm trying to understand your post in.

PS - mods ought be breaking up heated debates only when the language turns personal - because it's ok to attack issues here, but not each other personally.

Anything else ought be asked to the mod in question personally, or reported directly to Admin, your choice, as is your stated right here.

 

[MrB206]

It's easier for us to understand and improve if the going in position on both sides is that the other guy just wants what's best for the site and all of the members here.

That's how I look at you, honestly, and that's the light that I'm trying to understand your post in.

Well, I appreciate that.

I in no way want to tell you how to run your operation, but I've been on many forums and mod'd a few and I find the best ones are those that allow tangents and heavy back-and-forth to exist. But I feel like mods here step in when there's some tangent in a thread, which can prevent users from feeling they have the ability to reject or counter something said in a thread.

I honestly think if two people are going back and forth, others can jump in to support/reject either side and that actually can end or sway the conversation to a conclusion. When it doesn't, the replies escalate and then the language and personal nature tends to clearly violate forum rules and warrants mod intervention.

Of course, the only place I feel that kind of tangent and back-and-forth is never warranted is in a dev release thread for a rom; those threads are for bug reporting only.

So I guess my suggestion is less regulation and more objective analysis of complaints submitted to see if they *really* are attacks or foul language, or if they're just two people replying and one not being as articulate as he/she would like.

*edit*

Regarding your PS, I think that's the issue... mods are interjecting before something is personal. It tends to be one person not liking what the other said or a reply that appears personal because the party willingly gave that information and the replier used it to show their statement as false. I've never seen really personal, harsh attacks here (which I've seen some vicious ones on other forums), yet the mods are interjecting a lot, seemingly before it gets too personal... do you guys have a 'pre-crime' department and some precogs floating in tanks somewhere?

 

[EarlyMon]

Telling us how to run the operation or how to do a better job serving you is always welcome here!

It's why this particular forum exists.

No one likes a heavy handed mod. I hate that. And I've goofed before - I'm guilty. I wish I never were, but I'm human and I've booted a few.

When the users have pointed it out, I've often apologized and corrected the intrusions.

Please just let us know. That's all we ask. Unlike maybe some other forums, that's ok here.

The incidents that started this thread would have never happened and unraveled if instead of a public show-down leading to more complaints, the guy had just talked to us, or reported us to Phases, so whatever the real problems were could be worked out.

I can't fix the past, so the takeaways I'm offering are - let us know how to improve under the assumption that we care too, and that mods don't have the final word here.

 

[EarlyMon]

*edit*

Regarding your PS, I think that's the issue... mods are interjecting before something is personal. It tends to be one person not liking what the other said or a reply that appears personal because the party willingly gave that information and the replier used it to show their statement as false. I've never seen really personal, harsh attacks here (which I've seen some vicious ones on other forums), yet the mods are interjecting a lot, seemingly before it gets too personal...

Ok, if that's the case, it needs to be reported, or discussed with the mod.

If you report a mod, a team reviews (and believe it or not, it's not a foregone conclusion). If you report them to Phases, he reviews.

If you report a mod, you'll likely get a reply from another mod. That's part of the review process, depending on the particular case.

Sometimes, a mod jumps the gun. Or issues a bad infraction. We correct those and apologize sincerely.

Sometimes, it's a perception issue - and what's left is what's happened after a thread clean and the parties involved have PM'd together with a mod. (It's not unheard of for a forum to be upset with us but the parties involved are not, because those parties know their full posting history.)

This is ok -

How many times do I have to explain that you're wrong on this technical point, here are the reasons again, XYZ.

This is not ok -

If you can't see that you're wrong after I've explained it to you, then you're an idiot.

This is ok -

I don't know how you arrived at that opinion, but I'll respect it, it's your opinion. My opinion disagrees with yours, we're not going to see eye to eye, let's move on.

This is not ok -

What kind of moronic opinion is that? Have you been living under a rock?!?

If you see mods breaking up stuff that's ok, please let us know.

do you guys have a 'pre-crime' department and some precogs floating in tanks somewhere?

Ok, I don't care who you are, that's just funny right there!




edit and ps - Some people act like idiots for the sole purpose of disrupting threads. Ok to report them, let us sort them out.

 

[dautley]

Sometimes, it's a perception issue - and what's left is what's happened after a thread clean and the parties involved have PM'd together with a mod. (It's not unheard of for a forum to be upset with us but the parties involved are not, because those parties know their full posting history.)

T

I have no clue what lead to the ban, but to me "a perception issue of a entire forum" should be a major concern when moderating, that's really what this entire thread is all about.
**Edit**
In the Mods defense, when D2A decides to break rules, he always seems to put a lot of creative effort into it making it hard to ignore

 

[EarlyMon]

I have no clue what lead to the ban, but to me "a perception issue of a entire forum" should be a major concern when moderating, that's really what this entire thread is all about.

I wasn't referring to this case. In the cases I was referring to, the parties involved asked others to go easy on the mods.

I'd rather not rehash what happened myself, Phases has addressed and explained it.

I apologize for the confusion. I was trying to give several examples of cases I've seen in response to a question as I understood it.

 

[blaze413]

We're really not crooked cops that rubber-hose people in back rooms.

THATS HORSE SHIT!!! You mods have become drunk with power and im gonna report you all to the cyber police

 

[sammyz]

Cyber police don't really exist

 

[MrDangerous]

Yes, I believe because he posted:

Spoiler

"And as for the mods, troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll"

..right after a mod posted a PSA and asked everyone to please avoid the usage. Openly taunting the mods? Generally not the best course of action to display your disagreement.

Must have gotten deleted before I saw it which is understandable.

 

[mickeydurden]

THATS HORSE SH*T!!! You mods have become drunk with power and im gonna report you all to the cyber police

 

[dautley]

We're really not the crooked cops that rubber-hose people in back rooms.

That's true! I can verify they use rolled up phone books!

 

[azoller1]

Guys without mods this website would be chaos!!!

 

[sammyz]

Guys without mods this website would be chaos!!!

Agreed!

 

[Gmash]

I don't think you have. Jumping in to threads where two people are engaged in heated discussion, as I've seen done before, just to break it up, rather than let it run its course, is part of the problem.

If convo turns to personal attacks and really vulgar language, hit 'em... but that's not what I'm seeing.

I came here because it was one of the best places to get info for the LG Spectrum and because I hate the childish crap @ XDA, but y'all are pushing the devs (and users) away, so I have to get my info from other places. Maybe D2A crossed the line, but this isn't even about him... it's about users like ME voicing our concerns over how you're handling the moderation of this site and us telling you we're going to stop using it if it keeps up. I'm sure you're thinking "don't let the door hit ya on the way out...", but it needed to be said.

The "childish crap @ XDA" is exactly what this forum would devolve into without proper moderation. Agreed, it's not the Wild West like some forums, but that's what I like about it. People here aren't scared to ask what they might think is a "dumb" question for fear of being insulted or ridiculed. The mods have a tough job straddling the line between keeping this a friendly and civil place, and stifling legitimate debates. I think by and large they are doing good work at a largely thankless volunteer job. Stop by Politics and Current Affairs if you think this place is over moderated lol.

 

[dautley]

Stop by Politics and Current Affairs if you think this place is over moderated lol.

Why I have argued that it has no place on this forum, it use to be a good place to get yourself banned!

 

[MrB206]

Lol politics forums seems to be the place where all hell breaks loose and people lose their composure. I have no doubt it's the most colorful of the forums here.

 

[Digital Controller]

Honestly i think this forum is moderated fine, a lot of times the mods come to make a comment to make themselves known, that hey, this thread is being watched, it isn't so much like big brother, but like just letting you know that the rules are in place and you will get reprimanded if you do something wrong, but it is so very much necessary to have mods like that.

This is one of the better forums i have been on because the moderating team and guide team for that matter is so diligent about keeping this forum clean of flamers and rude members.

I have talked with a handful of mods and guides and get nothing but positive comments from them, they are all nice people, it's just when someone gets banned and members liked him, someone has to be seen as the bad guy, and unfortunately 100% of the time it is going to be the people who banned him, the mods.


To sum things up, i love how this forum is ran, i think mods/guides you guys do a great job at handling things and i dont think they need to be changed. The rules are honestly pretty straight forward, you should know if you are breaking them or not!

 

[bones420la]

Get rid of the main dev for a device. People leave the forums. After
seeing all this happen like it did. Plus other times I've seen mods go powerhungry on this site aggravates me.
Ill make sure the spectrum is the last phone I buy that is mainly devved from these forums.

 

[bones420la]

The "childish crap @ XDA" is exactly what this forum would devolve into without proper moderation. Agreed, it's not the Wild West like some forums, but that's what I like about it. People here aren't scared to ask what they might think is a "dumb" question for fear of being insulted or ridiculed. The mods have a tough job straddling the line between keeping this a friendly and civil place, and stifling legitimate debates. I think by and large they are doing good work at a largely thankless volunteer job. Stop by Politics and Current Affairs if you think this place is over moderated lol.

Honestly. The childish crap at xda varies by device. I've never really had problems with xda. Just never ask dumb questions in the more popular forums and you'll be good. I've used xda since 09. And I like the xda way of dealing with t****s. Alot of sarcastic and mostly funny posts. There the most frequent users of a certain section point the mods to threads that need to be locked or deleted or whatever. Here. We have mods that have never posted in the spectrum forum trying to be dictator. That's not a good way to run things. Just because someone is a manager at McDonald's. Don't mean they would be best at managing an olive garden. (Hopefully y'all get the analogy I meant) I'm done noe. I've shared my. 02. And now I'm out. Now off to xda. And hopefully the orchestra will give me any info I need about the spectrum