ICS OTA and FDR

[Thom]

In June an assertion was made that it was prudent to always do a FDR (Factory Data Reset) after installing any OTA (Over the Air).

We were getting a lot of GB (Gingerbread) OTAs on the Bionic and I identified this FDR assertion as overkill. I really endeared myself to ... EarlyMon ... with that description.

I was coming from the point of view of a un-root-ed user who did not have the luxury of having Titanium Backup Pro (as I do on my Droid X) available. He on the other hand did. As a result I think he saw it as much less of an imposition then I did.

So here we are at the threshold of the ICS OTA and I agree with him on this one 100%. It makes total sense to me to install the ICS OTA (when available) and immediately do a FDR and install everything from scratch.

To my thinking going from GB to ICS is like going from Windows XP to Windows 7 ... start with a clean slate and reinstall everything out of the box. Doing that I am not going to get five weeks down the road and be shooting some obscure problem that came up only on my Bionic because Gingerbread element X did not translate correctly to ICS element y and NO ONE else ran into it yet.

There is also always junk that slowly accumulates that you never get around to cleaning out. This reinstall process is great for that because when you hit one of these ... you just don't reinstall it.

... Thom

 

[dautley]

+1 ^^^^

 

[HotPepper]

So best bet is if your on 232 to root and back up with titanium. Go back to 905 upgrade to ota then fdr

Wait will the ota be rootable???

 

[Paraflier]

There is also always junk that slowly accumulates that you never get around to cleaning out. This reinstall process is great for that because when you hit one of these ... you just don't reinstall it.

... Thom

That is an excellent idea. I am backing up as I type. This bionic is probably as cluttered as my first apartment. Good excuse to NOT reinstall some of the BS after a FDR w/ ICS.

 

[Paraflier]

And as part of backing up....

In this instance (prepping for new os version, I mean) should I be backing up system apps as well? I understand FDR will only wipe what I have put on (unless I specify more).

Will the old GB system apps conflict with new ICS system apps? Or is this an unnecessary concern? The ICS system apps will essentially replace the GB system apps?

 

[Thom]

So best bet is if your on 232 to root and back up with titanium. Go back to 905 upgrade to ota then fdr

Wait will the ota be rootable???

Weather you choose to root or not is a separate question. The major reason for root-ing other than to play with your Bionic is to have Titanium Backup Pro available.

If you choose to root keep in mind that you are assuming responsibility for what happens. A failure could be costly.

If you are already on and ICS leak and are root-ed I am really surprised that you didn't make the backup before installing the ICS leak. (You need to always plan for the worst case.)

After it is released I think you will want to verify that the OTA is root-able before you install it (even if you have no immediate plan to root).

(The people in the soak test will not be allowed to answer that question for you.)

... Thom

 

[doogald]

So here we are at the threshold of the ICS OTA and I agree with him on this one 100%. It makes total sense to me to install the ICS OTA (when available) and immediately do a FDR and install everything from scratch.

While I do not disagree with this, I might be tempted to run with the OTA for a day or few to see if a factory reset is required. A factory reset is only a few taps away, and I can understand why somebody may want to try without being so hasty about the reset.

Motorola and Verizon are specifically designing this update to install over installed data, after all. I could see why this may be one of the reasons why so many test builds fail, actually.

 

[Thom]

The original assertion (that I resisted under Gingerbread) was that a Factory Data Reset should be part of the OTA install process.

I concluded that that could only be sensible under Gingerbread if you were root-ed.

One day's testing isn't going to do it. One month's testing isn't going to do it. I don't have a lot installed (only 124 apps). The ideas is to assume that something is going to be screwed up.

To me it makes total sense to clean the slate when going to ICS.

... Thom

 

[dautley]

So best bet is if your on 232 to root and back up with titanium. Go back to 905 upgrade to ota then fdr

Wait will the ota be rootable???

Of course you could HoB to .247 with no data loss, just a available option to consider, but anytime you flash a ROM you should be prepared to lose everything, that's just the way it is .

 

[HotPepper]

What im trying to say is you have to be rooted to use tb

But if the ota wont be rootable how can we restore our data with tb after the fdr

 

[dautley]

What im trying to say is you have to be rooted to use tb

But if the ota wont be rootable how can we restore our data with tb after the fdr

Who said you can't root the OTA?

 

[Paraflier]

I am using Rom Toolbox Pro for my backups... since the backups are stored on the mnt/sdcard, and that is not effected by a FDR unless specified, it shouldn't be an issue to restore.

Unless the "restore" requires root access.

 

[Paraflier]

Knock on wood, I haven't needed to restore. Yet.

 

[carracerz14]

I know factory resets fixed any problems for us razr users after the ota. I would highly suggest it. Just like mentioned, you wouldn't go xp to win 7 or 8 with out starting fresh

 

[HotPepper]

No one. I was asking you if you think the ota will be rootable right away?

 

[Thom]

No one. I was asking you if you think the ota will be rootable right away?

That is a question what will start an endless debate where some people think one thing and other people think another and some are REALLY emphatic about their opinion.

The answer is that it has not been released so there is no way to know.

The safe thing to do is to hold off on your installation until you see it reported that someone has actually installed it and actually root-ed. At that point go ahead with the installation.

Where I am coming from is ... the last Droid X OTA ... you could not revert and you could not root. A complicated workaround came out a month or so later. An easy root method was finally available six months after OTA.

... Thom

 

[dautley]

That is a question what will start an endless debate where some people think one thing and other people think another and some are REALLY emphatic about their opinion.

The answer is that it has not been released so there is no way to know.

The safe thing to do is to hold off on your installation until you see it reported that someone has actually installed it and actually root-ed. At that point go ahead with the installation.

Where I am coming from is ... the last Droid X OTA ... you could not revert and you could not root. A complicated workaround came out a month or so later. An easy root method was finally available six months after OTA.

... Thom

So here's the deal as far as I'm concerned, .247 is the OTA and it's rootable.
If by chance some completely redesigned supper unrootable .248+ version all of a sudden pops up and is pushed out as the OTA, I'm staying with .247.
If you ever took this theoretical unrootable .248+ you would most likely not be able to go back to .247 or lower because they would up the security again. Fortunately there are tools that can be used to compare files between versions so we would know before ever installing it. Remember, if your not on .905 your not going to get the OTA pushed to your phone.

What we really need to be worried about would be Jelly Bean, security in it might be a whole new ball game.

 

[HotPepper]

So why do a fdr if we csnt even root it? Seems pointless. Thats just assuming its unrootable

 

[dautley]

So why do a fdr if we csnt even root it? Seems pointless. Thats just assuming its unrootable

A FDR gives you a fresh clean start and really has nothing to do with root.

 

[Thom]

So here's the deal as far as I'm concerned, .247 is the OTA and it's rootable.
If by chance some completely redesigned supper unrootable .248+ version all of a sudden pops up and is pushed out as the OTA, I'm staying with .247.
If you ever took this theoretical unrootable .248+ you would most likely not be able to go back to .247 or lower because they would up the security again. Fortunately there are tools that can be used to compare files between versions so we would know before ever installing it. Remember, if your not on .905 your not going to get the OTA pushed to your phone.

What we really need to be worried about would be Jelly Bean, security in it might be a whole new ball game.

I assume it will work like other OTAs ... it will be pushed on your phone and you will be asked if you want to install it ... (I have a friend with a Droid 4 who is still saying no each time it prompts him to install ICS).

We are in agreement that we will know what the OTA is after it starts being pushed out. If it is 6.7.247 we will already know that it is root-able.

My recommendation (like yours) is to just wait to see that someone has verified that it is root-able before accepting it.

(With the Droid X I think they were trying to curtail future root-ing. I assume they have abandoned that effort. I suggest that verification is more prudent than assumption.)

... Thom

 

[stridermt2k]

I completely see the point of doing an FDR after the OTA, but admittedly it's not something that occurred to me before I read this.
Root is something that doesn't seem necessary to me at this time, but I'd like to have the option if I end up needing it for something.

Thanks for posting this!

 

[Thom]

I think you are on the right track. Leave your option open for future root-ing.

I resisted the FDR concept under Gingerbread because of the lack benefit very much like applying a patch).

I promised EarlyMon that I would help get his assertion out to the Bionic community when I could and I think it is applicable to ICS.

I'm in software development ... what makes for successful software is always assume the worst. (This is what hacks off a lot of people who want to focus on the best case [a discussion between a software developer and someone in sales is always VERY interesting].)

... Thom

 

[dautley]

(With the Droid X I think they were trying to curtail future root-ing. I assume they have abandoned that effort. I suggest that verification is more prudent than assumption.)

... Thom

Verification is always the thing to do, some may think I'm quick to pull the trigger on a leak but I've never installed one without knowing if it had increased security and if it's was rootable.

I don't believe anyone has been able to root any of Motorola's new phones like the Razr M have they?

Another thing to be aware of is if you ever root under ICS anyone will be able to go into recovery and see if the phone has been rooted before. No way around it. See http://androidforums.com/bionic-all...er-also-present-in-all-bionic-ics-builds.html

 

[Thom]

Another thing to be aware of is if you ever root under ICS anyone will be able to go into recovery and see if the phone has been rooted before. No way around it. See http://androidforums.com/bionic-all...er-also-present-in-all-bionic-ics-builds.html

Here's another assumption on my part ... I assume they are going to have a new support policy for normal phones and for developer phones. Support for developer phones will be higher cost. The new indicator is a first step at doing it. If you root ... you are on a developer phone.

... Thom

 

[dautley]

Here's another assumption on my part ... I assume they are going to have a new support policy for normal phones and for developer phones. Support for developer phones will be higher cost. The new indicator is a first step at doing it. If you root ... you are on a developer phone.

... Thom

If they are going to say that they need to let me unlock my bootloader!