HTC is bananas

[xstefen]

Oh man, hope everything is alright.... This is ridic

Pocketables

 

[eatsaimin]

Dang that's crazy!

 

[ramjet73]

Oh man, hope everything is alright.... This is ridic

Interesting....

I actually uploaded some zip versions of the Evo 3D RUU's to that website to help Linux users and other people that needed them after football was forced to remove them from all his "shipped ROM's" threads on XDA. I'm surprised they haven't shut down Shipped ROMs yet but that site has more than just HTC versions.

Hopefully it's just because he used "HTC" in the name.

ramjet73

 

[g60madman]

Wonder if they will be coming after me next with the domain htcdev.us

 

[Mobstergunz]

Htc has rights to its trademark and its intellectual property.................

 

[SuperAfnan]

If they shut down custom roms (which they can't) htc will probably go down into hell.

 

[payterx]

Htc has rights to its trademark and its intellectual property.................

Yes they do, but they're usually pretty good about letting developers use the phones to whatever they want.

 

[xstefen]

More than likely its just because of "htc" in the URL and a trigger happy lawyer

 

[pinocytosis]

I really want to like and support HTC, but it seems like all they want to do is alienate customers

 

[Mobstergunz]

ROMs and RUUs aren't they same thing............ RUUs use HTC's Software Installer and since HTC Doesn't provide it to the users themselves it could be considered piracy................

On that note RUUs are Proprietary to HTC not Android or Google

 

[Prinny]

I suppose it depends on the context here...

If the name is involved, having HTC* in the site title, I can understand that.

It really depends though on the details. We really don't know too much about why they were sent after JMZ, so I'm not jumping to conclusions here.

With any luck, jmz could very well pop into here and update us, or we'll see an update on XDA perhaps.

Regardless, I'll be watching this closely.

 

[Rxpert83]

Its htcs software, they can choose to do what they Please with it.

It looks really bad PR wise though.

Also, moving this to the HTC forum

 

[Rxpert83]

Just for clarification....


HTC made him take down HTCRUU.com (and transfer it to them). This is where he was distributing HTC RUU's and had an HTC logo on the page. The whole conversation is available for people to read in a few different places around the web.

More than likely its just because of "htc" in the URL and a trigger happy lawyer

Its got more to do with hosting HTC's software and using HTC's image. Had he changed the content of the site he could have easily said HTC stood for something else. (ex-Heres the Communities RUU)

Bottom line:
Sense is HTC's proprietary code and they can put the hammer down on things like this. He could have tried to fight it, but I respect his decision to comply

 

[ramjet73]

ROMs and RUUs aren't they same thing............ RUUs use HTC's Software Installer and since HTC Doesn't provide it to the users themselves it could be considered piracy................

On that note RUUs are Proprietary to HTC not Android or Google

As are the drivers for things like 3D and WiMax 4G in Sense based ROM's, not to mention the Sense framework itself. Those are just as proprietary as the RUU.exe utility and re-distributing either of them is pretty much the same. None of that software is open source.

If the rom.zip file is extracted from the RUU.exe is that not proprietary since it doesn't have the installer?

Just because the ROM is included with an HTC phone a user purchases doesn't authorize redistribution of that software. That's like saying if DVD's are sold to end users the content can be legally re-distributed.

Having said that, HTC devices will become a lot less popular on XDA and elsewhere if the ROM's and RUU's can't be used and modified by developers and end users.

ramjet73

 

[Palmetto Fellow]

Should I start downloading ROMs left and right in case they take this to far?

 

[Rxpert83]

Should I start downloading ROMs left and right in case they take this to far?

If you wish

I don't think there's any chance they're going to start going after your typical developers

 

[Mobstergunz]

As are the drivers for things like 3D and WiMax 4G in Sense based ROM's, not to mention the Sense framework itself. Those are just as proprietary as the RUU.exe utility and re-distributing either of them is pretty much the same. None of that software is open source.

If the rom.zip file is extracted from the RUU.exe is that not proprietary since it doesn't have the installer?

Just because the ROM is included with an HTC phone a user purchases doesn't authorize redistribution of that software. That's like saying if DVD's are sold to end users the content can be legally re-distributed.

Having said that, HTC devices will become a lot less popular on XDA and elsewhere if the ROM's and RUU's can't be used and modified by developers and end users.

ramjet73

there is a risk to everything its just the amount of risk that changes ............... like the DVDs, Mass copying and re-selling the DVD is a huge risk while Selling the original DVD to a friend is little to no risk :smokingsomb:

 

[ramjet73]

there is a risk to everything its just the amount of risk that changes ............... like the DVDs, Mass copying and re-selling the DVD is a huge risk while Selling the original DVD to a friend is little to no risk :smokingsomb:

But as a developer you are not selling the phone to a friend, you are taking the ROM (movie) and redistributing it to users with a different phone (DVD/Media player). It's true that in most cases the base ROM was included on a phone that runs a custom ROM, but that is not always the case when different versions are ported, like Sense 4.1 ROM's to the Evo 3D, or licensed software like beats is added to a ROM for a phone that didn't include that license.

I'm not trying to be judgmental, just pointing out that there's little difference between distributing an HTC Sense ROM and an HTC RUU, and they are legally both proprietary and the property of HTC.

ramjet73

 

[Mobstergunz]

But as a developer you are not selling the phone to a friend, you are taking the ROM (movie) and redistributing it to users with a different phone (DVD/Media player). It's true that in most cases the base ROM was included on a phone that runs a custom ROM, but that is not always the case when different versions are ported, like Sense 4.1 ROM's to the Evo 3D, or licensed software like beats is added to a ROM for a phone that didn't include that license.

I'm not trying to be judgmental, just pointing out that there's little difference between distributing an HTC Sense ROM and an HTC RUU, and they are legally both proprietary and the property of HTC.

ramjet73

I agree and with that comes the risk............... In this case i think the installer itself is the issue (Since HTC usually turns a blind eye towards Rom Developement) using the HTC name and logo is also an issue but is probably what brought attention to it all............... Not very smart in the first place if you ask me

 

[Rxpert83]

They aren't going to go after developers.

The site in question was named HTCruu, had HTC's logo, and HTCs proprietary software. For any uninformed visitor it looked like it was owned by HTC.


Any other company would do exactly the same thing if aware of it, mobile company or not. Try making a microsoftsoftware.com website that has Microsoft's logo, and downloads of Microsoft office and windows on it. Same thing happens, except you'll end up going to court and not get a polite email asking to take it down

 

[ramjet73]

I agree and with that comes the risk............... In this case i think the installer itself is the issue (Since HTC usually turns a blind eye towards Rom Developement) using the HTC name and logo is also an issue but is probably what brought attention to it all............... Not very smart in the first place if you ask me

I think you need to read through HTC demanding I take down RUUs and even my custom sense ROMs, which makes it pretty clear to me that HTC doesn't distinguish between distributing the RUU's and modified versions of their ROM's. In fact, given their argument that modified ROM's represent risks to their users (and of course cost to them when the users have problems) the RUU is actually less of an issue for them than custom ROM's since it is only used to restore a phone to it's stock firmware and software configuration.

Edit: I just noticed this statement in that email thread:

The ROMs pose a significant consumer protection issue for HTC, since it does not control the software and, if installed on users' devices, it could cause harm to the user.

That is true for custom ROM's but not for RUU's as long as the files remain signed by HTC. I think HTC should make all the RUU's publicly available, especially since they are starting to encrypt them now. Some RUU's have already been available on the htcdev.com website to fix problems like not being able to use their unlock procedure after taking an OTA update on the Evo 3D.

From the htcdev.com bootloader unlock instructions for the Evo 3D:

HTC has identified a known issue that may be experienced by some users with a Sprint EVO 3D that shipped with version 2.08.651.2, even if it was updated to a newer software version via FOTA. When attempting to unlock, a blank screen appears on the device after step 12 in the instructions and the process does not complete. As a workaround for users who experience this issue, we suggest you upgrade the ROM to 2.17.651.5 first via OTA then download and install the RUU from the table below to fix the issue before attempting the unlock process. This issue will also be fixed in the ICS update scheduled for EVO 3D.

ramjet73

 

[Palmetto Fellow]

They aren't going to go after developers.

Not yet. And they wouldn't go after the developer directly. If you recall, a couple of years ago it was OK to discuss and give assistance to people who wanted to get free WiFi tethering on this here website.

I admit that I don't know all the details of what transpired, but I'm sure lawyers were involved in sending messages to the owners of this forum and now, those topics are off-limits.

Likewise, if you target the congregation points where developers and users come together, you can be as effective as going after the developer. It will end up pushing this whole thing underground, and will ultimately hurt their sales. So I don't see it happening, as it's not a good idea from a business perspective. From a "guard your intellectual property" perspective though, you never know what the suits are going to do...

Is my tinfoil on too tight?

 

[Rxpert83]

Lawyers weren't involved as far as I know, it was to prevent the possibility of legal action. This is a private website, and the owners can allow/disallow whatever they please. They're going to be in trouble for illegal activities.


BTW, you can discuss tethering freely. Not being able to discuss it only lasted a few months from what I remember

 

[ramjet73]

It would really be interesting to find out what unleashed this recent onslaught of HTC enforcement on practices that have been going on for quite a while. It seemed to start with them shutting down FootballPDA on XDA and Twitter, who was the main source for leaked HTC information and RUU's.

That makes me wonder if another vendor or even a "fanboy" of another brand might have tipped them off. If HTC got "leads" on the websites as opposed to discovering them on their own, I sure hope they checked out the sources thoroughly because the actions they are taking will definitely help the other phone manufacturers. Then again, that's what their lawyers get paid to do.

Maybe that's too paranoid? Please pass the tin foil.

ramjet73

 

[xstefen]

Maybe they got tired of Kernel requests for our phone HTC EVO V [multiple a day from some people] and did a little research

Either way, atleast from the experienced phone user community, they're screwing themselves. Tho I have always been a HTC fan, theres plenty of really nice phones out there