Samsung just handed all their competitors an opportunity

[sean76]

I know you don't think using the car analogy is appropriate, but this comment is what I'm getting at. If people like something, then the manufacturer changes it, they risk upsetting a lot of people, and if that device is a best selling product, that's a big risk to take. There's nothing to stop Samsung designing a new revolutionary phone, but just don't call it a Galaxy S series device.

Were also talkin about $80,000 vehicles compared to $600 phones...lol

I go through a ton of phones per year but only switch my car or truck every 2 years...Big difference in price man!

 

[sean76]

Not unless it's free.

I like the look of it though. But tbh, those were the specs that people were predicting last year for the S3, so it's nothing groundbreaking. It has finally reached the level that people want their phones to be. Quad core, 1080p, pretty large battery, expandable memory. Although I would like one, my S3 will do me nicely for quite a while I think. What I do like about the S4 is that it makes me optimistic about the level the technology might have reached, by the time my upgrade is up in June 2014, as now I can't envisage needing anything more than a 1080p display in a hand-held device of that form factor (I don't want something as big as a Note, so the new displays are optimal, as any higher resolution would render the pixels ridiculously small, requiring a magnifying glass.) Hopefully future phones will concentrate on power efficiency - both in circuitry and batteries.

But I don't have any problem with the devices looking the same.

Different strokes for different folks...I like picking up the newest phone and knowing that it looks different from last years model...But thats me man! If your cool with the opposite way of thinking and your cool with them looking the same it's all on you because your the one who would be buying it...

I happen to agree...Where on earth do we go from here? The screens are absolutely ridiculous at this point, how much more sharper can you get then 1080p?

I said this a long time ago...EarlyMon will probably remember the wars I used to get into with people about battery life and how manufacturers keep adding all these bells and whistles and crazy screens, but with all these new things comes battery drainage. My feeling was if Motorolla could do it on the Razr Maxx, so can a slew of other companies...Hopefully battery life becomes a real focus in 2013/2014.

 

[EarlyMon]

We need more power, LTE is trying to kill me!

 

[sean76]

We need more power, LTE is trying to kill me!

Please Kirk...Ya gotta help us out man, hahahahaha!

 

[Gomjaba]

We need more power, LTE is trying to kill me!

Are you KIDDING ME ? I am currently watching the exact episode on my N7 RIGHT NOW

 

[AntimonyER]

Are you KIDDING ME ? I am currently watching the exact episode on my N7 RIGHT NOW

He's scary like that

 

[sean76]

He's scary like that

hahahaha...It's a scary android world that connects us all!

 

[laptopquestion]

Took a trip through some of the S4 threads....

Wow, what were people expecting from the S4?

My S3 has been great. The S4 is a evolution, not a revolution. I would still buy a S3/S4 over an iPhone simply on principle

 

[ben7337]

Isn't anyone impressed by some of the revolutionary things Samsung has done with the GS4?

When it comes to android, there are 4 major manufacturers.

Samsung
HTC
LG
Motorola

Of these HTC is known for bulky builds, and an old idea of luxury, the One X and now One series, have done absolutely nothing but have tiny non removable batteries, non expandable storage, nothing special with screens, overall they are just normal. Plus they are fragmented, there's the One, Droid DNA, J Butterfly, etc.

LG made the Nexus 4 and Optimus G, they also have small non removable batteries, and aside from getting the S4 Pro SoC, the phones aren't too impressive. They got 13 MP cameras, but not good quality ones.

Motorola, The only competitor who is truly offering something competitive, Motorola has been putting in good build quality and design with expandable storage. They don't make revolutionary phones on size, but they do make pretty good phones, and their claim to fame is the 3300mah MAXX line for Razr Phones, both thin and high battery capacity.

Now what Samsung has done is nothing short of miraculous. They took the giant batteries of Motorola, but managed to keep the battery as removable. The put 2600mah into a 7.9mm device, the droid razr hd is 2500mah at 8.4mm for comparison, and 9.3mm for 3300mah in the razr maxx hd. So basically samsung had outdone the battery kings, I bet an extended 3500mah battery could make the phone only 9.5mm or so thick.

On top of this, Samsung has taken the wireless charging of phones like the Nexus 4, and somehow crammed that in too, and put in a 13MP camera, to compete with the high end of other lines.

Furthermore, Samsung made this phone smaller, it is the same height, and slightly less wide, despite a bigger screen. It is the smallest phone with a 5" screen and is smaller than all of the 4.7 and 4.8" screen phones, let alone the 5" ones. If that isn't impressive, I don't know what is.

Now yes they didn't change the design much, but there wasn't much to change, they have always used plastic, that much is certain not to change, there is borderline no bezel or anything to this device, and they did change the look on the front bezel and it look cool, and the side of the phone looks cool as far as I'm concerned too. The only downside is sticking with the shiny slippers backplate. Something more like Motorola's carbon fiber design would be much cooler.

Overall though, Samsung is basically kicking butt, they have managed to beat or match their competitors in every field possible. Unlike their competitors, there isn't a single thing the GS4 has to give up, it has it all, in the best possible package. The only downside at all is the plastic, if you care about that, but the truth is, most people don't really, if they did, samsung would have moved away from it as a building material years ago.

Now if someone can tell me what the competition has to offer now, or what they could possibly offer in the future that bests this phone, I'd love to hear it, because aside from a more powerful SoC or more RAM, all of which is guaranteed for later phones, I don't think Samsung did anything wrong. Engineering-wise, they have made a true marvel.

 

[Rockman]

I think alot of people have this right, the S4 would be a great upgrade for S2 users, maybe not so much for an S3 user like me. I just got my S3 in November upgrading from an HTC EVO. I liked the EVO but the S3 blows it away in every sense. As a fairly new S3 user I don't believe I will be upgrading to the S4. I'm still learning the S3 and its capabilities. I like technology and gadgets but I dont HAVE to have the latest and greatest. Samsung obviously has a hit with the S3 and I believe the S4 will be a hit as well. I think most of the buyers will be upgrades from S2's and iSHEEP, I mean Iphone converts..

 

[Gomjaba]

Heh, Aston Martin hardly changes designs and they are doing alright (I know. Bad comparison). My contact is up in supreme at which point the s4 shouldn't be silly expensive so I might upgrade then.

 

[Hadron]

@ben7337 (sorry, too much to quote)

The S4 is impressive, but I don't see anything revolutionary. It's all incremental steps over the S3. That's fair enough, understandable, and not a bad thing, but there's nothing really different, which is why I think there have been some muted responses.

They've followed others in introducing a 5" 1080p screen (quality depends on preferences - many people rate HTC's LCDs above Samsung's AMOLEDs, TBH it's really a matter of preference). They've shrunk bezels (something Motorola led the way on). They've raised battery capacity, which is good but is the S3's battery "tiny"? That one is the same size (albeit removable) as the One X+ and smaller than the One or Xperia Z. And the S4 uses the same camera sensor as other 13Mpix cameras, and while you can argue about whether HTC have quite got it right yet, bumping Mpix is mainly marketing rather than real world image quality and so I applaud HTC for turning away from that.

I could pick other nits, but you get the point. It appears to be a good package (assuming it performs as expected), certainly up there with anything else, but I'd call the hardware (which you focus on) a good, balanced mix of current state of the art rather than "revolutionary" - I reserve that word for something new and radically different, and that I don't see. Of course it is all measured relative to the S3, which is still a damned good phone

I may yet buy an S4, but I actually think that HTC and Sony have taken bigger steps in their phone design this year, measured relative to their previous handsets.

 

[davoid]

I go through a ton of phones per year but only switch my car or truck every 2 years...Big difference in price man!

Ah, well now I can see why we're coming at this from different angles. I change my phone every two years lol. But I suspect that so do a lot of other people.

But I also mentioned cameras, which don't cost as much as a truck. The Canon G series digital compact cameras all looked alike. Nikon D series DSLRs, Leica M series cameras, all look alike. This phenomenon is applicable to many consumer products where the manufacturer wants to have an instantly recognized brand and product line. And that includes your Porche. But even chocolate bars use the same packaging design they have done for years. So that people recognize them right away.

 

[deslock]

Well looks like Sammy just pulled an Apple with the S4. Samsung are not Apple, they can't afford to pull a "same old same old" because they're not the only Android maker, while Apple are the only iPhone maker.

By launching what is basically nothing more than just a spec refresh of the older GS3 with a few touchwiz gimmicks, Samsung just handed every other Android OEM, Apple, MS, and Blackberry a golden opportunity to attract buyers to something more unique and different.

Samsung understands what's important. The S3 and S2 both felt inferior to many other premium phones too, and yet they conquered the market because:

1. Huge, vibrant screen (small bezel = win)
2. Thin and lightweight
3. Fast
4. Decent battery life

To the masses, everything else is secondary to the above. The HTC One's industrial design and high quality build/materials are indeed more upscale, but it has a smaller screen, isn't AMOLED (vibrance trumps accuracy for most users), is heavier, and has a lower capacity (and integrated) battery. It'll sell well, but not as well as the S4.

Regarding the S4's "lack of innovation", IMO that Samsung was able to increase the screen size while making the phone even thinner, narrower, and lighter alone is impressive. And they increased the size of the removable battery. And they added a micro-SD slot. I hate pentile as much as the next guy, but at 440+ DPI, I don't think it'll be noticeable.

That written, I like the HTC's stereo speakers and its "Ultrapixel" features and low light performance. But the HTC's speakers aren't that important to me (since it's still going to sound bad compared to my BT speakers) and unless the S4's camera performs poorly, that won't be enough to offset the rest of the S4's advantages.

 

[Hadron]

In reasons for conquering the market, don't forget a marketing budget that none of their competitors could possibly match

 

[RichSz]

Great thread!

I think we're in the spec wars era of Android. Manufacturers are bumping specs without giving customers features they could really use, not just features they can brag about.

We're at the point where increasing the screen resolution would be senseless. DPI is now just bragging rights. Would a 500dpi display allow you to see the invisible pixels less?

2gb of memory will probably be just fine for the near future. Camera MPs are just numbers which don't equate to real world use (I'm pretty sure my 10MP Canon Rebel DSLR will wipe the floor with the S4 quality-wise). More MPs equals larger file sizes which is no way to encourage the use of cloud services with so many carriers enforcing data caps.

Samsung keeps jamming in features few people will use yet give them bragging rights. It's really unfortunate.

I feel they've failed to take real world use into account. For example, will the phone be grippy or slippery? I'd put a large wager on slippery. EVERYBODY has to hold their phone, yet no thought goes into the ergonomics. Steering wheels, for example, are designed to be held and have indents for your fingers. Why? So you can hold them better. They're designed for your hands. I'm not saying phone manufacturers should use finger indents, but like Motorola did with the DroidX, they should make the case out of a material which gives a good grip. You'd think that was fundamental yet the effort seems to be applied to gimmicks and style. You shouldn't NEED to use as case.

They make the phone as thin as possible yet sacrifice battery life to do so. I'd rather have a reasonably thicker phone which I only need to charge every 2 days than something as thin as a credit card (hyperbole) which I have to keep on a charger constantly (more hyperbole). The thickness has become just another useless spec. I don't give a damn if it's thicker than an iPhone.

Looking at the upcoming smartphones, none quite do it for me because each has a deficiency based on my usage. The S4 is probably the least deficient and the one I'm most likely to get. Though after things I've said about recent iPhones, I'd be hypocritical to not say the S4 appears to be just a small bump from the S3, particularly when you remove all the features you personally will never use:

Tilt scroll: really?
Air View: almost touching the screen is probably harder to do than just touching the damn thing.
SmartPause: because pausing a video with your finger is such a tedious challenge.
Chat Features: there aren't enough texting, video chatting, translation, talking apps in Play?

I hope we haven't reached a technical plateau like Apple has.

I want revolution not evolution.



These criticisms are my opinions and based on my smartphone usage.

 

[sean76]

Isn't anyone impressed by some of the revolutionary things Samsung has done with the GS4?

When it comes to android, there are 4 major manufacturers.

Samsung
HTC
LG
Motorola

Of these HTC is known for bulky builds, and an old idea of luxury, the One X and now One series, have done absolutely nothing but have tiny non removable batteries, non expandable storage, nothing special with screens, overall they are just normal. Plus they are fragmented, there's the One, Droid DNA, J Butterfly, etc.

LG made the Nexus 4 and Optimus G, they also have small non removable batteries, and aside from getting the S4 Pro SoC, the phones aren't too impressive. They got 13 MP cameras, but not good quality ones.

Motorola, The only competitor who is truly offering something competitive, Motorola has been putting in good build quality and design with expandable storage. They don't make revolutionary phones on size, but they do make pretty good phones, and their claim to fame is the 3300mah MAXX line for Razr Phones, both thin and high battery capacity.

Now what Samsung has done is nothing short of miraculous. They took the giant batteries of Motorola, but managed to keep the battery as removable. The put 2600mah into a 7.9mm device, the droid razr hd is 2500mah at 8.4mm for comparison, and 9.3mm for 3300mah in the razr maxx hd. So basically samsung had outdone the battery kings, I bet an extended 3500mah battery could make the phone only 9.5mm or so thick.

On top of this, Samsung has taken the wireless charging of phones like the Nexus 4, and somehow crammed that in too, and put in a 13MP camera, to compete with the high end of other lines.

Furthermore, Samsung made this phone smaller, it is the same height, and slightly less wide, despite a bigger screen. It is the smallest phone with a 5" screen and is smaller than all of the 4.7 and 4.8" screen phones, let alone the 5" ones. If that isn't impressive, I don't know what is.

Now yes they didn't change the design much, but there wasn't much to change, they have always used plastic, that much is certain not to change, there is borderline no bezel or anything to this device, and they did change the look on the front bezel and it look cool, and the side of the phone looks cool as far as I'm concerned too. The only downside is sticking with the shiny slippers backplate. Something more like Motorola's carbon fiber design would be much cooler.

Overall though, Samsung is basically kicking butt, they have managed to beat or match their competitors in every field possible. Unlike their competitors, there isn't a single thing the GS4 has to give up, it has it all, in the best possible package. The only downside at all is the plastic, if you care about that, but the truth is, most people don't really, if they did, samsung would have moved away from it as a building material years ago.

Now if someone can tell me what the competition has to offer now, or what they could possibly offer in the future that bests this phone, I'd love to hear it, because aside from a more powerful SoC or more RAM, all of which is guaranteed for later phones, I don't think Samsung did anything wrong. Engineering-wise, they have made a true marvel.

Ben before we praise battery life on the S4, it would be best for some of us to actually put it through the paces...Until then we know nothing, same for the HTC ONE. When you say tiny non removable batteries, what are you expecting on devices that are so thin? I mean my nexus 4 lasts me for an average of 15 hours on the regular, what more can I expect these days being a heavy user and rocking T-mobile's HSPA+ network? It isn't really the manufactures fault, it's technology at the moment and until we really take leaps and bounds this is kind of where we're at...The one and only king of all phone batteries is and will continue to be the Droid Razr Maxx, Moto has figured it out for the most part and expect they're next line of Moto Nxt phones to market they're superb battery life.

Yes what Samsung has done under the hood of the S4 is pretty cool, we still don't know about processors yet for the regions, but yes they did manage to cram a lot of screen into a slightly lighter, smaller footprint! My only gripe is that it looks exactly like the S3, just my 2 cents though on the looks of the phone.

FYI- My n4 honestly takes some pretty decent pics, not earth shattering pics, but I also own an
iphone 5 and have compared them a million times. 9 out of 10 times it depends on the person taking the picture : )

 

[davoid]

@sean76 I agree, for me battery technology and device power efficiency is the direction that future development needs to pursue. Screen size is already optimal, and processing power is more than enough. Perhaps audio quality could be improved, and the camera also, but for a phone they are more than adequate.

Now, if only they could include phone functionality into one of these...

 

[jaydub110]

I'm not happy with the way it looks I really thought they would do something different like the HTC One (which I really like the looks) & do a all aluminum body which is cool looking, I am glad they kept the physical home key but I wish they would have added a physical camera button. I am glad that they still kept the back cover to take off for the battery & to add a sim card I won't buy a phone that has an enclosed back cover. I have the S3 but I don't think i'll be changing to the S4.

 

[liteon163]

I understand most people saying the S4 isn't much of an improvement over the SIII. Heck, I'm one of them. But just realize that if we were talking about Apple, all we'd be getting was a marginally improved CPU/GPU. The S4 is superior to the SIII in just about every respect, and where it's not better it's the same. And having a microSD card slot makes a significant difference.

I still won't be getting one, since I'm still under contract for a bit more than a year. But my girlfriend will be getting one to replace her iPhone 4, so I'll still get a chance to play with hers while I teach her how much better Android can be than iOS.

 

[Android26]

Samsung understands what's important. The S3 and S2 both felt inferior to many other premium phones too, and yet they conquered the market because:

1. Huge, vibrant screen (small bezel = win)
2. Thin and lightweight
3. Fast
4. Decent battery life

To the masses, everything else is secondary to the above.

You're probably right, but I personally care more about a high quality looking design and build than I do a feather thin and light phone. Much more, in fact.

 

[ben7337]

@ben7337 (sorry, too much to quote)

The S4 is impressive, but I don't see anything revolutionary. It's all incremental steps over the S3. That's fair enough, understandable, and not a bad thing, but there's nothing really different, which is why I think there have been some muted responses.

They've followed others in introducing a 5" 1080p screen (quality depends on preferences - many people rate HTC's LCDs above Samsung's AMOLEDs, TBH it's really a matter of preference). They've shrunk bezels (something Motorola led the way on). They've raised battery capacity, which is good but is the S3's battery "tiny"? That one is the same size (albeit removable) as the One X+ and smaller than the One or Xperia Z. And the S4 uses the same camera sensor as other 13Mpix cameras, and while you can argue about whether HTC have quite got it right yet, bumping Mpix is mainly marketing rather than real world image quality and so I applaud HTC for turning away from that.

I could pick other nits, but you get the point. It appears to be a good package (assuming it performs as expected), certainly up there with anything else, but I'd call the hardware (which you focus on) a good, balanced mix of current state of the art rather than "revolutionary" - I reserve that word for something new and radically different, and that I don't see. Of course it is all measured relative to the S3, which is still a damned good phone

I may yet buy an S4, but I actually think that HTC and Sony have taken bigger steps in their phone design this year, measured relative to their previous handsets.

As I see it, smartphones are reaching the point of no advancing much more. A hand can only hold a phone so big, screens are basically at their apex now for size, samsung couldn't logically go any bigger, even if they wanted to, it may not be revolutionary, but there is no way to make screen size revolutionary at this point, while still marketing to the majority.

The same goes for most everything else. They didn't do revolutionary things, but they combined the best elements of each manufacturer, with their own personal style.

As for incremental, in the USA the phone now has 2x as many cores and 2x the GPU power most likely. How is that incremental? That's a huge jump, just as every year has been, and is basically what we expect and what everyone else did. Plus internationally they have a phone with the Big.Little 8 core thing going on, which no one else has done or announced yet, so that is also pretty revolutionary.

I get that people see it as incremental from the S3 despite these upgrades, but the reason they see it this way, isn't because it isn't amazingly better, it's just because it doesn't look or feel particularly different. However that doesn't change the fact that it is. The problem is that the S3 is already at the point where smartphones can't get bigger or much more impressive, so the replacement looks similar. Look at the One X and One. Both of them are fairly similar too. Similar spec bumps, aside from the One going for a unique camera choice, and no major differences in function. The One and One X have the same screen size, pixel bumping is as pointless on the GS4 as on the One, and no one will really notice it, and better internals aren't noticed by the vast majority. So what did the One do that was so revolutionary? Get a new look with the same features? Get a low res camera that can do better in low light?

 

[Hadron]

Well a lower res camera with better low light performance is arguably more revolutionary than bumping Mpix to the same level everyone else is doing already . It's bucking a trend rather than following one.

Really, I'm not a marketing drone, so I'm selective in how I use words like "revolutionary". The S4 is a good phone, but it's not a genuine revolution in any way I can see.

I don't want to get into a nit picking war, but you can't claim the processor bump is a revolution as it's just following industry developments. The big.LITTLE is more interesting, but even that's really an evolution of what others were doing last year (and value to be proven - I'm watching with interest of course).

So perhaps I set the bar for "revolutionary" rather high? If you want to understand my thinking, I'm happier to award it to the Note than any Galaxy S, as that was a real innovation (ie doing something different). You can have innovation without revolution, but I don't think the opposite is possible.

 

[richs10]

As a relatively new owner of an S3, I don't think I will be upgrading to an S4 anytime soon, but I still like what I see with the S4. Larger screen in the same size package, better processor, the home and back buttons, and a sleek design. It's a nice improvement over the S3 and puts Samsung right on track for a future S5.

I came from a Samsung Droid Charge (which some think Samsung may have intended as the original 'Galaxy'). It was underpowered, but had an incredible screen which even my S3 does not approach in color and vibrancy. IMHO, the S3 and S4 pentile displays are not as good in some respects, but after a day or two with the pentile, my eyes adjusted and forgot about the superior quality of the Charge's screen. I'm very happy with the S3.

I don't quite understand all the criticism of the polycarb shell or the use of home and back buttons. To me, the iPhone feels like a sharp edged brick (and looks like it). The S3 and S4 are sleek, easy to handle and feel solid in my hand. I use the back and home buttons every day. They work well for me. I'm not looking forward to learning how to use a phone without them.

JMHO.
Rich

Post Script: One thing I don't like about the S3 (and apparently the S4) is the lack of an HDMI out. Nice feature on my old Charge. I did not enjoy having to purchase a $33 OEM converter on Amazon to do the same thing I could do from the HDMI port on the Charge. Have to admit though, the S3 battery life is a big improvement and I expect it will be even better with the larger battery on the S4.

 

[deslock]

before we praise battery life on the S4, it would be best for some of us to actually put it through the paces...Until then we know nothing, same for the HTC ONE.

True, and it'll be interesting to see what 1920x1080 means for energy consumption (and performance), and how the S4's 2600 mAH battery will fare vs the One's 2300 mAH battery (given the 5.0" AMOLED vs 4.7" LCD screens and different chipsets).

We're at the point where increasing the screen resolution would be senseless. DPI is now just bragging rights. Would a 500dpi display allow you to see the invisible pixels less?

I agree to a certain extent... though with pentile, jagged edges of text are still visible at ~315 DPI. It's subtle and not bothersome, but at ~440 DPI they'll probably be invisible.

That written, had Samsung instead used RGB 1280x720, it might've meant better battery life while still being sharp.

2gb of memory will probably be just fine for the near future. Camera MPs are just numbers which don't equate to real world use (I'm pretty sure my 10MP Canon Rebel DSLR will wipe the floor with the S4 quality-wise). More MPs equals larger file sizes which is no way to encourage the use of cloud services with so many carriers enforcing data caps.

I too prefer HTC's "Ultrapixel" approach.

Samsung keeps jamming in features few people will use yet give them bragging rights. It's really unfortunate.

I disagree. Larger (still removable) battery, micro-SD, less weight, bigger screen, and narrower footprint (smaller bezel) are all useful.

I feel they've failed to take real world use into account. For example, will the phone be grippy or slippery? I'd put a large wager on slippery.

Good point, but it's reportedly grippier than the S3.

They make the phone as thin as possible yet sacrifice battery life to do so. I'd rather have a reasonably thicker phone which I only need to charge every 2 days than something as thin as a credit card (hyperbole) which I have to keep on a charger constantly (more hyperbole). The thickness has become just another useless spec. I don't give a damn if it's thicker than an iPhone.

The reality is that larger, thicker, heavier phones don't sell. It's not a coincidence that Samsung's successful phones have excellent "screen-area to footprint", "screen-area to weight", and "screen-area to thinness" ratios.

That written, I agree with you somewhat as I value weight and small footprint more than thinness. If they increased the battery capacity at the expense of thinness, I'd be OK with that as long is it was still ~5 ounces.

The S2 was a revolutionary design. Subsequent models are derivative, which is fine because Samsung got so many things right two years ago. Frankly, the HTC One isn't that revolutionary either... it's slick, but is basically a larger iPhone5 with a few nifty features (Ultrapixel camera, stereo speakers, screen resolution, Android vs iOS).