An Alarming Trend...

[Thatdad]

I agree with this, I would rather save my data bandwidth anyway

I love sci-fi books from the early part of the 20th century, One of the best (IMO) was Robert Heinlein.

Lasers, Rockets, Computerized cars, among other things thought up and later come into use.

Like the car that drives itself made by Google.

Who was the author who wrote the book about the old smart house burning down? It was a really old one. It was all based on a time schedule. If you happen to know.

 

[funkylogik]

Without scifi people wouldn't have the ideas to create it though.

People's ideas created scifi lol

 

[Thatdad]

People's ideas created scifi lol

That's a technicality.

 

[Tattycakes]

I can see I'm a bit late into this discussion but had any of you read this? Why Nexus devices have no SD card | Android Central

 

[funkylogik]

Man i HATE Jerry Hildenbrand with a passion but he knows his stuff so ill give it a read. Thanks man :beer:
Read it now and i do understand having the big internal SD but it doesnt really explain to me whats wrong with having an SD slot for media as well

 

[new optimus]

Like the car that drives itself made by Google.

Who was the author who wrote the book about the old smart house burning down? It was a really old one. It was all based on a time schedule. If you happen to know.

I recall (vaguely) something about that but do not remember who? Or even the full story.

I can see I'm a bit late into this discussion but had any of you read this? Why Nexus devices have no SD card | Android Central

Man i HATE Jerry Hildenbrand with a passion but he knows his stuff so ill give it a read. Thanks man :beer:
Read it now and i do understand having the big internal SD but it doesnt really explain to me whats wrong with having an SD slot for media as well

No that does not explain anything, it goes into nicks theory of dumbing down everything.

I do like the ext file system vs the fat but You would think in todays world they would find a new/safer/easier removable filesystem. seriously how long has fat filesystem been around, and its microsoft.

Also irritates me that ext is a linux file system yet MTP is such a hassle on linux.

Also the fact is when you plug in your nexus device, or any new phone mtp is crap for performance/copy transfer speeds. And you can not do as many things as you could before.

 

[Stannis the Mannis]

I've observed that mid-range and low-end devices often have better flexibility and standards-compliance than high-end stuff. For example, you can only get one form factor for high end phones: slab. No flip, no slide, just slab. SD slot, same thing.

I've seen a few people mention the latest 4.x version handing app2sd as if it's new, but is it different than it was for versions dating back at least to 2.x?

It's the same as the 2.x versions and i'm glad, it saves me a ton of space! It was a really pleasant suprise.

 

[jhawkkw]

I recall (vaguely) something about that but do not remember who? Or even the full story.



No that does not explain anything, it goes into nicks theory of dumbing down everything.

I do like the ext file system vs the fat but You would think in todays world they would find a new/safer/easier removable filesystem. seriously how long has fat filesystem been around, and its microsoft.

Also irritates me that ext is a linux file system yet MTP is such a hassle on linux.

Also the fact is when you plug in your nexus device, or any new phone mtp is crap for performance/copy transfer speeds. And you can not do as many things as you could before.

It's because MTP is a Microsoft product.

 

[Davdi]

Re: a new OS coming along - Firefox OS (also Linux based, using HTML5 for ALL 'apps', runs on modest spec devices. Could be what my Wildfire S has been wanting.

 

[bjacks12]

Wait, Google said that they were leading by example by providing a large block of storage internally?

I'm calling BS on this. The Nexus 4 comes with a maximum of 16 GB. Is that what they call a large block?

 

[jhawkkw]

Wait, Google said that they were leading by example by providing a large block of storage internally?

I'm calling BS on this. The Nexus 4 comes with a maximum of 16 GB. Is that what they call a large block?

At the time they made this move with the Nexus S, 16GB was a lot of internal storage. They just haven't increased their total much.

 

[Thatdad]

I recall (vaguely) something about that but do not remember who? Or even the full story.



No that does not explain anything, it goes into nicks theory of dumbing down everything.

I do like the ext file system vs the fat but You would think in todays world they would find a new/safer/easier removable filesystem. seriously how long has fat filesystem been around, and its microsoft.

Also irritates me that ext is a linux file system yet MTP is such a hassle on linux.

Also the fact is when you plug in your nexus device, or any new phone mtp is crap for performance/copy transfer speeds. And you can not do as many things as you could before.

Darn. The story went that there was a nuclear bomb blast. One part there was a starving dog that could smell food being cooked because of the time schedule..
Tick tock 7 o clock 7 o tock time to wake up! Something along those lines.
Edit--
Found it. It was called There Will Come Soft Rains
by Ray Bradbury

 

[Slug]

Okay, time for a friendly reminder to keep your comments moderate and polite. There have been one or two remarks which stretch the above definitions; a bit of mild hyperbole is fine, but comparisons with genocidal regimes and accusations of 'stupidity' for holding different opinions are out-of-line.

Also, please note that links to apps which advocate/allow piracy and/or licence circumvention are verbotten here on AF. We don't care if they have legitimate purposes.... if they also allow "cracking" of apps they're not acceptable.

 

[zuben el genub]

Re: a new OS coming along - Firefox OS (also Linux based, using HTML5 for ALL 'apps', runs on modest spec devices. Could be what my Wildfire S has been wanting.

If you don't need a salt shaker - here's the phone:
Buy it now -- ZTE Open Firefox phone comes to eBay

I'd like to know if I can get FX extensions. I can't live without NoScript and Tab Permissions which turns off images on the fly. And an HTML blocker like the Noflash extension for FX on the computer.

You would have to go read the blurbs on the FX nightlies to see all the ideas being put out.

Even the Vulcan is part of this "do it for me" He's pulled that on new computer apps as "it's too hard to figure out" and he started with DOS! He also thinks the Nexus 4 is too complicated.

 

[JIMV]

I've never seen the point in doing that at all. Upload all my MP3s to Google, travel to a different country and then find I can't download my MP3s due to licensing restrictions, even though it's my songs I've uploaded. Just put them on an SD card, much easier and always available. :thumb:

Bingo!

I want my phone to do a very few things but I want those to be flawless
1. make and receive calls clearly anywhere in the world I am likely to visit
2. Store and playback Hi-Def videos
3. Store and playback High Rez audio through USB audio out
4. Use the internet as desired
5. Provide massive on board storage.

That's about it...Note nothing about texting/social networks/abra cadbra gimmicks, no 'cloud' and most assuredly no unwanted mandatory apps and no paying for services not wanted of used.

 

[JIMV]

I can see I'm a bit late into this discussion but had any of you read this? Why Nexus devices have no SD card | Android Central

This was their excuse

We got tired of seeing OEMs include many GB of internal storage for music, while users were still running out of space for apps and data. This approach lets us merge everything on one volume, which is way better.

And it is BS...they want to sell cloud storage and they want control of some basic apps like apple does with iTunes.

 

[nickdalzell]

Also want to sell phones where the higher capacity is more expensive, like Apple. And, I did mention Google's reasons were utter crap. I just see them locking down more and more. UI aside, their recent updates to their apps keep removing important functions. They are already attempting the 'walled garden' approach with their theme regarding the Play Store and the other Google apps carrying the same UI. The only difference is that it resembles more WebOS and Windows 8 and lacks the fake leather stitching of Apple's UI.

 

[divinebovine]

Drat. This thread blew up again and I was unable to look at it again until there was so much I want to respond to that it's megaquote time. Again, breaking it into a few posts...

My main issue is that he constantly harps about it being for blind people or people with poor eyesight , having worked with others that have this disability it is more than a little insulting.

Wouldn't those people be bothered if their favorite thing used to offer an interface optimized for them but doesn't anymore? That's what nick is ranting about. He doesn't have a problem with an interface being available for those folks, and at the moment he could be placated just by having a non-default option for folks like him and myself...the default could even be for the differently-abled.

Some folks want to fly through their interface without being coddled or condescended. A huge gnarly lever for windshield wipers just gets in my way; a small control at the end of my turn signal lever, requiring a bit of dexterity, does NOT get in my way and lets me adjust my wipers while doing a bunch of other things simultaneously. The huge gnarly lever on my 1997 Pontiac would be great for elderly folks, but the concentrated collection of many controls in one place on my 1987 Cadillac and 2002 GMC were perfect for me.

The same issue comes into play when you design a computer or mobile interface for the lowest common denominator (by which I mean the design that kinda fits EVERYBODY but doesn't fit anybody particularly well).

 

[divinebovine]

I do not see Android being anything like Apple at all. Google is money hungry, do you all really think Google is going to grab their customers and shove them right out?

They'll certainly push the limits to see what they can get away with before losing customers, like a teenager pushing his parents' limits.

Google actually does listen, it's just that you yourself hate the Play Store. Is it really that hard to believe Google would keep it the way people like it? If I owned a company I think I would go by what the masses have to say.

Juggernauts like Google, Microsoft, and Apple don't listen, they tell. They tell the masses what to like and the masses either get with the program or get left behind.

I've never seen the point in doing that at all. Upload all my MP3s to Google, travel to a different country and then find I can't download my MP3s due to licensing restrictions, even though it's my songs I've uploaded. Just put them on an SD card, much easier and always available. :thumb:

If you put them on an SD card, can't you get in trouble for importing controlled data?

People's ideas created scifi lol

Science fiction connects the imaginations of writers with the drive and skills of engineers. There are plenty of people who can come up with cool ideas and plenty who can build cool stuff, but often they are not the same people.

Okay, time for a friendly reminder to keep your comments moderate and polite. There have been one or two remarks which stretch the above definitions; a bit of mild hyperbole is fine, but comparisons with genocidal regimes and accusations of 'stupidity' for holding different opinions are out-of-line.

I was going to complain to nick about potentially invoking Godwin's Law.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

 

[divinebovine]

Ok, now here's the big megaquote!

nick, how much time do you spend in Play? I drop in to tap "install" then I never see it again. If I'm doing a bunch of stuff I might spend 5 minutes tolerating it in a day, then I don't see it again for weeks. Mostly I use it on a computer in a browser where there's plenty of screen real estate to handle all the oversized crud they put in anyway.

Appbrain is just a browser. when i choose to install something i have to cringe at the pastel card-crap of Play Store.

Yup, just like I said...but it minimizes your exposure. It's ugly but just to tap a single button you should be able to cringe through it.

You know, I bet you could use Play from a browser and write code to clean it up and skin it. In Opera use UserJS. In Firefox use Greasemonkey. Plenty of people do it for other sites.

Star Trek LCARS, as much as some folks assume is just like Windows 8 and Google's new UI, isn't at all like it.

I wasn't thinking of LCARS, but actually...when the crap hits the fan, children have occasionally saved the ship. I can't remember what episodes but I'm pretty sure it has happened. Hasn't it?

No, I was thinking of interfaces in general that allow anyone to operate and engineer any ship regardless of language and design differences.

yeah, multitouch (iOS) started with the first iPhone. it also paved the way towards more accurate touchscreens and finger input, far more natural than a stylus. but wait! the stylus is BACK! just like speech recognition, we're going to see touchscreens held back by the few dinosaurs who prefer to wield a stylus. heck for a while HDTVs and flat-panel monitors were held back because the same folks preferred a CRT for a few years.

Dude. Don't worry about the stylus. It's not compulsory. It's there on one model (or a scant few?) for those who want to use it. Further, you can't say "stop goring MY ox" at the same time as "gore HIS ox". If you want them to keep old features while adding new ones, sending mixed messages won't help.

However if Google gets the same ego as Microsoft and Facebook and starts ignoring user complaints

Too late.

It's your fault. I mean YOU. You, me, and everybody else who dislikes it. As long as you keep using it you are approving it. Actions speak louder than words. Tolerate a different selection. Deal with the loss of updates for the apps you bought. Accept more risk. Put your money where your mouth is or they'll never pay attention to you.

You mentioned a historic event in which people stood up for what they believe in. They didn't just speak. They acted. They died for what they thought was right. The stakes are lower here and so are the costs of taking action. You don't have to die.

You know who's the larger Android market than folks like you and me? China. And you know what? They don't use Play. If they can live without it, you can.

I would be all for Ubuntu if they 1) DITCH UNITY!!!

That's not an option for people who want Ubuntu but not Unity? It is on the desktop.

and 2) make it where all my current paid-for apps from Google Play would work, or at least have an appstore to replace Play entirely and carry the same database.

Unfortunately that's the nature of choosing a different OS...you have to start over and abandon stuff you bought, at least unless decent virtualization is available and you have the power to support it.

Where is the choice? Even in Linux you can hack out unity.

I wouldn't call it hacking, unless you mean on mobile versions. On regular desktop linux you simple choose which environment you want, or even choose a distribution that doesn't offer Unity.

Why are they copying Windows 8 vs. Innovating on their own? Android didn't get where it is today by copying!

No, but now they're here and they're not gonna get anywhere new by doing what they've always done. They're not going to lose the customers they gained as long as there's no better option, and in the meantime they stand to steal some customers from the competition that they emulate.

Heck I'd use the older Play Store if I could find A way to stop it from auto updating. I've searched but found nothing. All the methods stop working after Gingerbread. Android 4.x lacks 'market updater' so I can't find how it updates itself.

Learn about linux firewalling. Perhaps funnel Play through a local proxy and filter out updates to Play while allowing everything else.

If there was an app store with as many apps and paid apps as Play, I would easily delete Play Store entirely.

I bet you could get a few preferable app stores the sum total of which would be a superset of what's available on Play. You'll still have to use Play to get updates for the apps you bought from Play unless you want to get them illegitimately.

EDIT: that last Link, the mirrors are dead. Megashare redirects to cloud storage sites, and rapidgator is 404 file not found.

To acquire files that have expired from sites like that (or were on sites that were shut down by the authorities), you need to do some creative searching. Use the URL that you know and find someone's post with a list of other mirrors. Use the filename at a search engine made for sites like that. Etc.

To be fair, my grandmother knows her way around Linux better than I do.

Give her adb shell and tell her what I said about filtering unwanted traffic.

Let's assume for the moment the flat design sticks, like the latter fad above. Very soon, displays are made to take advantage of the design. Gone are high resolution, high PPI, billions-of-colors tech because flat-ui only needs 16 colors and low resolution. People obviously prefer the stylus so no point in improving capacitive screen tech, just bring back resistive screens and possibly a slider keyboard or Bluetooth keyboard.

People still want to watch videos and use colorful apps. Don't worry, we won't get EGA screens.

I know! Folks absolutely despise Windows 8 and its cartoon UI. How hypocritical that most of those same people seem perfectly OK with Play's recent UI and even hope it becomes Android 5.0 (perish the thought )

People only get in and get out of Play, they don't hang around in it all the time. People on Windows 8 are stuck with it the whole time they operate their computer.

 

[nickdalzell]

Drat. This thread blew up again and I was unable to look at it again until there was so much I want to respond to that it's megaquote time. Again, breaking it into a few posts...


Wouldn't those people be bothered if their favorite thing used to offer an interface optimized for them but doesn't anymore? That's what nick is ranting about. He doesn't have a problem with an interface being available for those folks, and at the moment he could be placated just by having a non-default option for folks like him and myself...the default could even be for the differently-abled.

Some folks want to fly through their interface without being coddled or condescended. A huge gnarly lever for windshield wipers just gets in my way; a small control at the end of my turn signal lever, requiring a bit of dexterity, does NOT get in my way and lets me adjust my wipers while doing a bunch of other things simultaneously. The huge gnarly lever on my 1997 Pontiac would be great for elderly folks, but the concentrated collection of many controls in one place on my 1987 Cadillac and 2002 GMC were perfect for me.

The same issue comes into play when you design a computer or mobile interface for the lowest common denominator (by which I mean the design that kinda fits EVERYBODY but doesn't fit anybody particularly well).

When the older Play Store had two-column views of search results, it was far more tablet friendly, especially if you own one with a high resolution ten-inch screen. Their recent redesign really turned the high contrast up, and blew the elements up to where it is now one huge column which makes the same high resolution screen look like a CGA monitor from 1987. The color theme, with the pastel reds, blues, and greens didn't help to break the illusion either. Now even less shows up. It is like Google is trying to be sure we don't hit the wrong icon or card. But I can make that decision on my own thanks. When I said it appeared to cater to visually impaired, a minority if I am correct, I meant that the mere oversized UI isn't friendly to folks with normal, 20/20 vision.

Google didn't need to redesign the look. They needed to fix the bugs that the Play Store has had since day one, not change for the sake of change. Cartoon-UIs are great for kids. I'm an adult and prefer an adult interface. Personally like with Facebook I hate when some company decides to change the look for no reason, saying 'hey we did this, enjoy!' And ignore every complaint. That's bad business. Perhaps I was a bit naive thinking Google would listen like they did in the past. At least provide an option for classic UI. I had to instead hack my way towards the previous UI. That shouldn't be needed. Android is about choices, yet Google continues to remove choices one at a time. It's not enough they completely redid the UI and released it in one day over a phased gradual change, they had to release a buggy, unfinished product on top of an already buggy, unfinished product.

The new UI is almost an attempt at a 'one size fits all' interface. If I wanted that, I'd have stayed with iOS.

 

[Thatdad]

When the older Play Store had two-column views of search results, it was far more tablet friendly, especially if you own one with a high resolution ten-inch screen. Their recent redesign really turned the high contrast up, and blew the elements up to where it is now one huge column which makes the same high resolution screen look like a CGA monitor from 1987. The color theme, with the pastel reds, blues, and greens didn't help to break the illusion either. Now even less shows up. It is like Google is trying to be sure we don't hit the wrong icon or card. But I can make that decision on my own thanks. When I said it appeared to cater to visually impaired, a minority if I am correct, I meant that the mere oversized UI isn't friendly to folks with normal, 20/20 vision.

Google didn't need to redesign the look. They needed to fix the bugs that the Play Store has had since day one, not change for the sake of change. Cartoon-UIs are great for kids. I'm an adult and prefer an adult interface. Personally like with Facebook I hate when some company decides to change the look for no reason, saying 'hey we did this, enjoy!' And ignore every complaint. That's bad business. Perhaps I was a bit naive thinking Google would listen like they did in the past. At least provide an option for classic UI. I had to instead hack my way towards the previous UI. That shouldn't be needed. Android is about choices, yet Google continues to remove choices one at a time. It's not enough they completely redid the UI and released it in one day over a phased gradual change, they had to release a buggy, unfinished product on top of an already buggy, unfinished product.

The new UI is almost an attempt at a 'one size fits all' interface. If I wanted that, I'd have stayed with iOS.

Don't worry man, they just got to do their thing and learn what people like and don't like.

At least we hope.

How's the playstore working for you? Has it updated itself again?

 

[nickdalzell]

To be honest, I haven't tried opening it. Been a bit bitter the last few weeks at Google. I often spend hours browsing apps in the Play Store, just to discover cool new things, such as a launcher, themes, widgets, games, apps since my phone and tablets constantly change as I do. I never keep one theme forever. I love to customize. So yeah, if the interface looks like crap, I notice. I will say that I thoroughly enjoy the older Play Music app as I use it the most. The library takes far less steps now. To shuffle all my content, I now simply swipe right twice and tap 'shuffle all' in the later versions, I have to click the Play Music icon in the upper left corner, select 'my library' and then swipe twice to 'songs' and finally hit 'shuffle all' the new UI takes too many steps and the new version has this long lag or delay between songs while the old one is snappy . The only app I installed today was UC Browser to replace Chrome on my Nexus 10, since Chrome has been unstable since it updated to Android 4.3. My launcher kept reloading and messing up my widgets' layouts. Lately I'm trying to get into the pattern of buying apps from Amazon first, downloading free apps in it or 1Mobile Market second, and Play dead last.

 

[Thatdad]

To be honest, I haven't tried opening it. Been a bit bitter the last few weeks at Google. I often spend hours browsing apps in the Play Store, just to discover cool new things, such as a launcher, themes, widgets, games, apps since my phone and tablets constantly change as I do. I never keep one theme forever. I love to customize. So yeah, if the interface looks like crap, I notice. I will say that I thoroughly enjoy the older Play Music app as I use it the most. The library takes far less steps now. To shuffle all my content, I now simply swipe right twice and tap 'shuffle all' in the later versions, I have to click the Play Music icon in the upper left corner, select 'my library' and then swipe twice to 'songs' and finally hit 'shuffle all' the new UI takes too many steps and the new version has this long lag or delay between songs while the old one is snappy . The only app I installed today was UC Browser to replace Chrome on my Nexus 10, since Chrome has been unstable since it updated to Android 4.3. My launcher kept reloading and messing up my widgets' layouts. Lately I'm trying to get into the pattern of buying apps from Amazon first, downloading free apps in it or 1Mobile Market second, and Play dead last.

Has the one I sent you been stable though?
Would be appreciative of you checked. Oh and if you need the patcher you have to pm me since I can't post it openly. (against the rules)

 

[bjacks12]

I definitely miss the older Play Music. Wish they wouldn't have molested it