Real issue with power consumption, easily testable

[RoboCuz]

For those that think there is or is not an issue with battery life with some of the new Incredibles, here is some simple facts and a test to do. Can you run your Incredible without a battery, just off the charger? I have turned my phone into airplane mode, everything off (GPS, etc), all apps killed that
I could, and the screen down to low. And I STILL can't run my phone off the charger...something in the hardware is draining more juice than the charger can provide, so the phone turns off if I pull the battery, and it won't start without the battery in.

However, when speaking to someone in tech support, they were able to pull the battery out while the phone was running, so the phone was able to run on JUST the charger. This technician did not disable anything special, just pulled the battery when it was plugged in. That means it is using less than the 1Amp of power that the charger provides.

I know there is a lot of people saying to stop complaining, the battery life is what it is, and it is just a smartphone, and you have to pay attention to how you use it. There are some significant discrepancies though, on what people are saying they get for battery life, and I think this test is a simple example of something amiss.

So my simple question is, for those doubters, why would some phones be able to run off the charger with everything turned on, and others can't run off the same power supply with everything turned off. That seems to be a very concrete and easy to perform test that shows an inconsistence that shouldn't be there, one directly related to power consumption.

FYI, I am in the process of getting a new phone, and will see if the new one behaves the same way or not, both in power consumption and ability to run off a charger only.

Cheers
RoboCuz

 

[MisterMixelpix]

What you're describing is impossible. If the phone were pulling more power than the charger could provide, then it would mean the net power flow of the plugged in phone would be negative and thus it would never charge.

To put it another way, if the phone needed more power than the charger could give it, that would mean that while plugged in it would STILL be pulling from the battery just to keep going. Obviously this isn't the case because while plugged in there its still enough leftover power to recharge the battery.

 

[RoboCuz]

Ok, that is fair, I think your logic is reasonable. So maybe my logic is flawed, but not my test. Why is it that my phone can not run off a charger, regardless of the things I turn off, and others are able to run their phone on just the charger? Even with lots turned on. That seems like something that should be consistent across phone builds, no?

 

[lmbgm]

It might just be something in software that prevents you from running without a battery. Or one of the chips in the phone.

 

[RoboCuz]

But wouldn't that be consistent with all the Incredible phones? Why is it that some (the ones, btw, that seem to be getting much better battery life), can run off just the charger; yet others, with much less running, can not?

 

[Bundy]

Haven't tried, but why is it that you would expect the phone to run with no battery? I would think the power form the charger runs through the battery - so no battery means nowhere for the power to go. Is that wrong?

 

[MisterMixelpix]

That's definitely an issue that needs looked at. At work the other day I had mine plugged in on an extension cord with a TV. After a half hour the charge had gone up by about three percent. I had to turn the TV off before it started to actually charge at the right pace.

This is a situation I've never run into before now. It seems related to the fact that the phone charges crazy slowly off the USB charger.

 

[RoboCuz]

@Bundy, again, I can understand if none of the Incredibles ran without a battery. But that isn't the case. Some of them do, some don't.

And the ones that don't, like mine, I was unable to configure in any way to get it to run off just the charger, regardless of what I disable and turn off. That is what I don't get. I would think it a fairly consistent behavior, and seems to me that it points to a real problem and difference in the hardware of my phone, vs other phones that can run without a battery.

 

[zamugustar]

Every phone I ever had has charged slower on the USB then when plugged in, even my old RAZR. The USB just provides less direct charging power then the wall plug.

 

[Bundy]

@Bundy, again, I can understand if none of the Incredibles ran without a battery. But that isn't the case. Some of them do, some don't.

And the ones that don't, like mine, I was unable to configure in any way to get it to run off just the charger, regardless of what I disable and turn off. That is what I don't get. I would think it a fairly consistent behavior, and seems to me that it points to a real problem and difference in the hardware of my phone, vs other phones that can run without a battery.

Where/when did you see one that ran with no battery? That makes no sense to me - I doubt power runs directly from the charge port to the phone's main circuits. Wouldn't the battery be what serves as the power regulator for the phone?

 

[Bundy]

Wanted to add: I just tested and mine does not run with the battery out. I would be willing to bet that none do (unless there is some debugging type setting to override which is doubtful). Either way, I stand by my guess that the battery serves as the power regulator for the phone and there is no circuitry to handle power directly without the battery in.

 

[MisterMixelpix]

Where/when did you see one that ran with no battery? That makes no sense to me - I doubt power runs directly from the charge port to the phone's main circuits. Wouldn't the battery be what serves as the power regulator for the phone?

This makes sense to me. Why would HTC make the phone so it could run with no battery? Chances are it uses the battery as the medium by which the power gets to the phone.

 

[mobilehavoc]

Wanted to add: I just tested and mine does not run with the battery out. I would be willing to bet that none do (unless there is some debugging type setting to override which is doubtful). Either way, I stand by my guess that the battery serves as the power regulator for the phone and there is no circuitry to handle power directly without the battery in.

I agree with this. I doubt the power from the charger goes directly to the phone...it probably passes through the battery so no battery, no power. Laptops are different because they're designed to have hot swappable batteries so the circuitry allows for them to run on AC only and no battery.

 

[RoboCuz]

As mentioned in the original post, I have spoken with a tech support (from Verizon Wireless) that has done this, and their phones (tried with more than one) stayed on. He was using both the wall charger, and plugged into a computer. Additionally, I recently did a poll here which had a number of people (3) did report that their phone stayed on.

Now some of them think they have issues and their phone stayed on, and some didn't think they had issues, and theirs turned off. I am not sure what to make of this, as "thinking they have issues" is a VERY subjective question. Some might be happy with the same performance others think is a problem. So my poll wasn't terribly useful (ah well).

However, you can see that some people are able to run their phone without a battery, and others can not. Isn't that odd? Doesn't anyone else think it strange that some people can run their phone through the charger with whatever turned on and running, and others can't get it to run, even with everything turned off?

Wouldn't you expect this device to behave the exact same in this way? I am not saying that it should be able to run without a battery. I am saying that it should probably consistently behave the way it was designed. And it isn't. And that to me says the hardware is different or faulty, I think, in some of these units. Not sure if it is just different, or if it is actually faulty. So right now, I am just trying to understand, is there any rational reason that it should behave that much different. It appears questionable to me...

 

[tats_06]

I wouldn't trust tech support....half the time they don't know....may be he tested it with battery in and plugged in?

 

[1967ls2]

The phone can't run without a battery. That's just crazy conspiracy talk.

 

[JuniorNA]

The phone can't run without a battery. That's just crazy conspiracy talk.

That's not true. Why then, do laptops run when plugged in without a battery? Wouldnt it be the same type of chip/regulator through the laptop's circuit as the phone's circuit? The battery does not act as a regulator for the phone, it provides power to the phone via contacts. But you can bypass those contacts and use wall power right to the phone through the phones USB port to the main circuit board, just like a laptop.

My blackberry used to start up with no battery, but plugged into wall outlet.

 

[Squintz82]

Wait, let me try and understand this...

Tech support said that they pulled the battery WHILE it was on and connected to a charger and worked?

or

Tech support said they pulled the battery, connected to a charger, then turned it on and it worked?

Those are two different scenarios. I haven't tried this, but it makes sense if the battery is pulled WHILE ON and connected to a charger as a safety to prevent premature shut down and loss of data. While, the software might not let you turn on the phone when no battery is present, even connected to a charger. But this is all speculation.

 

[1967ls2]

That's not true. Why then, do laptops run when plugged in without a battery? Wouldnt it be the same type of chip/regulator through the laptop's circuit as the phone's circuit? The battery does not act as a regulator for the phone, it provides power to the phone via contacts. But you can bypass those contacts and use wall power right to the phone through the phones USB port to the main circuit board, just like a laptop.

My blackberry used to start up with no battery, but plugged into wall outlet.

My Laptop immediately turns off when the battery is removed regardless if it is plugged in or not. No battery, no laptop.

 

[JETC]

My laptop runs plugged in without battery. Doesn't matter if it is from cold start or while running. This is interesting and I'm leaning more towards that it's a software limitation than anything that would indicate about battery problems....

 

[Ayrow]

My Blackberry Storm will not run with just the wall charger - you have to have the battery inserted.
Drives me nuts when the phone dies and you need access quickly.

 

[Bundy]

Well RoboCuz has a point then. If some run and some don't, why? How could the exact same hardware handle something as important as power differently? Makes no sense.

 

[JuniorNA]

My Laptop immediately turns off when the battery is removed regardless if it is plugged in or not. No battery, no laptop.

Are you serious? I can't even count how many times i've blown through a battery on my laptops (maybe 10) and i didn't feel like buying a new battery, so i just use it while plugged it.

Shit, i even hard wired my older laptop right to the power cable bc the battery connector broke and thats been working for about 3 years now.

 

[MisterMixelpix]

Laptops can run just on the charger because they're computers. They're meant to usually run on the plug and use battery when needed. Phones are meant to run on battery and charge with the plug.

 

[1967ls2]

Are you serious? I can't even count how many times i've blown through a battery on my laptops (maybe 10) and i didn't feel like buying a new battery, so i just use it while plugged it.

Shit, i even hard wired my older laptop right to the power cable bc the battery connector broke and thats been working for about 3 years now.

Well that's news to me. I have a Sony Vaio Laptop and as soon as the battery pops out when the thing is plugged into the wall the laptop shuts down. Same goes for every phone I have ever used. I don't have my charger with me here at work but I will try this on my phone when i get home to see what happens when I remove the battery with the phone plugged into the wall charger.