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Old September 30th, 2010, 01:53 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Front facing camera???

Hi all,

I'm currently a Desire owner and contemplating pre-ordering the Desire HD. The deciding point for me is if it has a forward facing camera or not...

Nowhere on the internet mentions a forward facing camera.
HTC, when I emailed them, stated the phone does not support video calls, however I then sent an email saying it looked like it had a forward facing camera on the earpiece and they replied to confirm that yes, it was a forward facing camera.

Looking at the pictures of the Desire HD, at the top right of the earpiece / speaker you can see a small object that looks like a forward facing camera.

Despite the email from HTC I'm still sceptical because it's not been mentioned anywhere else, including on their own specs on their website.

So, does anyone know for sure???

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Old September 30th, 2010, 02:17 PM   #2 (permalink)
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that is not a front facing camera. I think its the light sensor.
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Old September 30th, 2010, 02:21 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I thought about a sensor in the past, but on the current Desire they're hidden under the black plastic around the screen, almost not visible. It would seem odd to stop doing that.

And to add to my suspicion, HTC customer services said on their emails
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which makes me think it is a forward facing camera. The only concern is that no testers or hands on people have mentioned it at all!
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Old September 30th, 2010, 02:56 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I reckon the literature and internet vids etc. would mention if there was a front-facing camera. Just think if it did, you'd be able to have video chats on a phone. Something that was unheard of until Apple released it with the iPhone4....albeit only on WiFi.




Sense the sarcasm? We were doing video calls over 3G years ago.
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Old September 30th, 2010, 03:02 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Sense the sarcasm? We were doing video calls over 3G years ago.
Thank god.. I was about to e-slap you to wake you up!
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Old September 30th, 2010, 04:29 PM   #6 (permalink)
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That's what I was thinking, but for customer services to say it has a forward facing camera is the bit that makes me think it is. Plus the fact it does look like one.

I've emailed them back, asking a further question, to see what comes of this and to see if they were mistaken.

I've had video phones in the past and not used the feature that often, but I think I'd use it more at the moment due to circumstances.
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Old October 1st, 2010, 05:28 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Just got a reply from HTC. They are adamant that the object at the front IS a front facing camera, although they state it's not yet been confirmed to customer services what this is going to be used for as of yet.
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Old October 1st, 2010, 05:49 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Lalaland View Post
Just got a reply from HTC. They are adamant that the object at the front IS a front facing camera, although they state it's not yet been confirmed to customer services what this is going to be used for as of yet.
It could be a "one more thing" like Apple do, but I highly doubt it's a camera. By the time the official specs come out there's usually no secrets left.
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Old October 1st, 2010, 05:52 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Normally I'd accept that, but HTC's customer services really do seem to believe it's a camera. It does look like one and with them stating it is it gives me hope.

I suspect on the day of it's release we'll know more and I may be disappointed, but until then I'm being given hope by HTC's staff who are sure it's a front facing camera.
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Old October 1st, 2010, 05:58 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Lalaland View Post
Normally I'd accept that, but HTC's customer services really do seem to believe it's a camera. It does look like one and with them stating it is it gives me hope.

I suspect on the day of it's release we'll know more and I may be disappointed, but until then I'm being given hope by HTC's staff who are sure it's a front facing camera.
With all due respect to them HTC's customer service staff know sod all when it comes to things like this. They said that Froyo was going to be released about 2-3 months before it actually was!

Customer service staff are not usually privvy to information like a secret feature.. otherwise it wouldn't be "secret" ; there's so many customer service staff it'd be impossible to know who leaked it.

The cs rep is either trying to persuade you to buy the phone, or passing off an opinion/hunch as fact.
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Old October 1st, 2010, 01:55 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Wow...you really have a thing for the front facing camera huh Lalaland...
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Old October 1st, 2010, 02:08 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Wow...you really have a thing for the front facing camera huh Lalaland...
Yep.

I currently own a Desire so I'm looking to see if it's really worth upgrading to the Desire HD. So far there's not really a massive difference.

I bought my Desire sim free because it was such a HUGE improvement over my current N97 that I had at the time. However I'd be getting a Desire HD as an upgrade if I was to get one, so I want to make sure it's worth it.

I'm happy with my Desire to be honest. The only thing really missing is a video call function.

My wife's also due an upgrade at the same time, she also likes the Desire. If the HD does have a forward facing camera we'd both order one so when one of us is away we can still see our child and speak with them. Massive bonus for us that.

I appreciate there are other Android phones with forward facing cameras, but they to me feel lacking compared to the Desire.

So the front facing camera would be a decision maker or breaker for the pair of us really...
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Old October 2nd, 2010, 05:35 AM   #13 (permalink)
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May I just ask people what's the big deal about a front-facing camera? I mean not everyone does face-t0-face chatting, so what's the deal?
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Old October 2nd, 2010, 08:26 AM   #14 (permalink)
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May I just ask people what's the big deal about a front-facing camera? I mean not everyone does face-t0-face chatting, so what's the deal?
Agreed, network operator 3 thought they could go big with Video calling, it went dead very quickly...Apple is trying it, and you need wifi to use it which makes the feature useless.

If I wanted face to face communication, I would go see the person or go in a web conference room online on my computer.
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Old October 2nd, 2010, 01:30 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I've got a "3" MiFi so I've got the luxury of wifi wherever I go so a front facing camera would be really handy to me....especially if it can be used with an existing video chat app like Skype for instance. I work long hours so could have chats with the wife and give my little girl a video kiss before she goes to bed at night.

Still don't think the HD's got one though.
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Old October 3rd, 2010, 08:01 PM   #16 (permalink)
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May I just ask people what's the big deal about a front-facing camera? I mean not everyone does face-t0-face chatting, so what's the deal?
You're right, not everyone does, however many people do.

And don't forget that front facing cameras aren't limited to video calls over a mobile network. These devices are more than just mobile phones, they are mobile internet devices. Webcams are so popular these days that most laptops come with them built in and most PCs come with them bundled when sold. Not everyone uses a webcam, but many do, especially with things like MSN, Skype and other online services that allow for face to face communication over the internet - it's very popular and very big business.

Android, being the type of OS that it is, is a great platform to allow people to use their handsets to have face to face conversations in the same way they do on their desktop computers and laptops. Why restrict a forward facing camera to a video call when Android allows for so many options depending on the user? Install a VOIP app. or a video chat app. and you could chat with your friend from your handset while they were sat at their desktop PC back home. Much more potential than simply video calling handset to handset.

I think that video calling is just part of the picture, if these devices want to be taken seriously they need a forward facing camera to act as a webcam on a desktop or laptop computer and I think that if HTC have left one out of their flagship European handset - Desire HD - they've really missed a trick.

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Agreed, network operator 3 thought they could go big with Video calling, it went dead very quickly...
Three is still here today and there are still many handsets being sold that allow for video calls to be made. The Samsung Galaxy S being one such handset, very popular and arguably a contender to the Desire family for the Android crown currently. In fact I even recently considered replacing my Desire for the Galaxy S if it was to get the 2.2 upgrade due to the forward facing camera and similar features - there were only a couple of points that kept me with the Desire over the Galaxy S.

Also consider the above point re the forward camera being used for so much more than just mobile network handset to handset video calls. There is so much more potential for mobile internet devices than the old video call capable handsets and as such I think we'll see a change in attitude towards such calls and more so the use of webcam type features while on the move. It won't be overnight, but tablets and mobile internet devices are proving more and more popular, missing a forward camera is a mistake in my view.

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Apple is trying it, and you need wifi to use it which makes the feature useless.
Apple are a strange group. They like to add old features later in life and even then don't like to admit they were late in doing so, so they make it slightly different to what's been done before, even if that change makes it less useful and appears stupid - in my view.

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If I wanted face to face communication, I would go see the person or go in a web conference room online on my computer.
I could say the same of a non-video call. I could go and speak with a person rather than calling them on the phone! You appear to be missing the point that allowing for video calls and more importantly, video communication over the internet from a mobile device adds a convenience which otherwise may not be there. It may not always be possible to get to a computer with a webcam or the person you want to talk face to face with may not be nearby.

Consider this, I work shifts which include anti social hours. I miss out on the chance to say goodnight to my child on some days sadly. I can call them, but a video call if I got a quiet moment (rare) would be great to say good night face to face to them. It sounds cheesy, but as a parent I would enjoy such a moment when I can't physically be with them, I could at least see their face and they could see mine as I spoke with them. There's no computer in most places where I work and even if there was I wouldn't be permitted to use it for this purpose. So for me, and I suspect many other parents, this would be a great feature. This is just one example of where such a feature is useful.

Video calls aren't dead. They may not be as popular as voice calls but they are certainly used and as I stated, use of a forward facing camera will increase with the more sophisticated internet devices becoming more popular and widely available. HTC have slipped up here really....
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Old October 4th, 2010, 02:17 AM   #17 (permalink)
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What he said /\
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Old October 6th, 2010, 06:22 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by mcnob View Post
I reckon the literature and internet vids etc. would mention if there was a front-facing camera. Just think if it did, you'd be able to have video chats on a phone. Something that was unheard of until Apple released it with the iPhone4....albeit only on WiFi.




Sense the sarcasm? We were doing video calls over 3G years ago.

Yes, I have my HTC TOUCH HD for a couple of years now in Europe, and it had front camera for Video calling. And I have been doing video calls since then! So it really isn't new!!
Just wish HTC would launch another phone with front Camera!! That is all I am waiting on!!
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Old October 6th, 2010, 07:29 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Lalaland View Post
.....

Three is still here today and there are still many handsets being sold that allow for video calls to be made. The Samsung Galaxy S being one such handset, very popular and arguably a contender to the Desire family for the Android crown currently. In fact I even recently considered replacing my Desire for the Galaxy S if it was to get the 2.2 upgrade due to the forward facing camera and similar features - there were only a couple of points that kept me with the Desire over the Galaxy S.
Yes Three are still in the business today, but how many phones do they sell that have that specific feature?

Not as many as hoped because its a needless feature that people don't need. If Three stuck with video calling, they would have lost millions if not possibly billions and gone out of business.

It's like Orange, they wanted IPTV and that fell flat as although it went mad in france, UK is a different ball game.

Galaxy S is easily equally on par with the current Desire if not maybe even better. I know quite a few folk in Plusnet faults who have them and they love it, but they don't use the front facing camera.

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Also consider the above point re the forward camera being used for so much more than just mobile network handset to handset video calls. There is so much more potential for mobile internet devices than the old video call capable handsets and as such I think we'll see a change in attitude towards such calls and more so the use of webcam type features while on the move. It won't be overnight, but tablets and mobile internet devices are proving more and more popular, missing a forward camera is a mistake in my view.
I still can't picture someone walking down a busy street with them holding a phone away from them so the other person can see them walking and talking to them down a street...Ok maybe a blonde person but thats another thing entirely.

Tablets is like netbook..It's a fad, give it 18 months just like the netbook and it will die out. Technology gets to a point where it can't progress that brand out.

Example: Netbook went from 7" to 12", brought you dual core and better graphics not to mention larger screen..but where from then?, battery life has suffered because of it and the overall ideas have run out.


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Apple are a strange group. They like to add old features later in life and even then don't like to admit they were late in doing so, so they make it slightly different to what's been done before, even if that change makes it less useful and appears stupid - in my view.
I'll agree with that just because i'm anti apple xD

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Originally Posted by Lalaland View Post
I could say the same of a non-video call. I could go and speak with a person rather than calling them on the phone! You appear to be missing the point that allowing for video calls and more importantly, video communication over the internet from a mobile device adds a convenience which otherwise may not be there. It may not always be possible to get to a computer with a webcam or the person you want to talk face to face with may not be nearby.
Goes back to my response above, you look stupid walking down a street with video calling. Can't see any london folk doing it. Can't see any Yorkshire folk either..I know were daft, but not that daft!.

The point im getting is there are reasons why it hasn't taken off.

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Consider this, I work shifts which include anti social hours. I miss out on the chance to say goodnight to my child on some days sadly. I can call them, but a video call if I got a quiet moment (rare) would be great to say good night face to face to them. It sounds cheesy, but as a parent I would enjoy such a moment when I can't physically be with them, I could at least see their face and they could see mine as I spoke with them. There's no computer in most places where I work and even if there was I wouldn't be permitted to use it for this purpose. So for me, and I suspect many other parents, this would be a great feature. This is just one example of where such a feature is useful.
And you just sounded like that apple advert there...And thats just me putting it out there.

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Video calls aren't dead. They may not be as popular as voice calls but they are certainly used and as I stated, use of a forward facing camera will increase with the more sophisticated internet devices becoming more popular and widely available. HTC have slipped up here really....
My view is the opposite, if it was good, it would been properly adopted and adjusted 8/9 years ago and would be in mass use in the UK today.

Not to mention, video calling is limited in the UK as network coverage can't provide necessary bandwidth. I think even Three themselves admitted that about 5 years back...whether they resolved that, I don't know. Remember they are a virtual operator, they use T-Mobiles backhaul which is now "Everything Everywhere"

The reason why video calling works in the far east for example because its rammed in every phone and its actually cheaper than voice calling..not to mention the network infastructure is about beyond anything in europe currently.

Orange's voice HD or HD voice/whatever the hell its called would appear to be what the future may hold for voice calls..Video calling is still way off being properly adopted IMO and until then, there is no real reason why companies such as HTC need to put them in.

Example:

Desire HD is sim free at 470..If a low res front facing camera cost lets say an extra 70 (just plucking a number out here)..Would you pay 540 for a sim free phone?...You would have to make serious use to justify it.


EDIT:

To finish off, I must stress there is no wrong answer here, its just my opinions being put out there, but from a business sense, it doesn't make sense if there isn't a massive enough demand to justify it.
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Old October 8th, 2010, 06:59 PM   #20 (permalink)
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I'd like a front facing camera, just for those times when you want to get a picture of you next to something. For example I was up in Gateshead near the Angel of the North. Spent ages unsucsessfully trying to get a pic with my iPhone 3g as I had to try and guess where the lens was pointing with no screen
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Old October 20th, 2010, 05:18 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Got my Desire HD yesterday. It does not come with a forward facing camera despite HTC stating it did.

Complaint sent.....
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Old October 20th, 2010, 05:20 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Got my Desire HD yesterday. It does not come with a forward facing camera despite HTC stating it did.

Complaint sent.....
This has been known for quite some time.............. maybe months
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Old October 20th, 2010, 05:22 AM   #23 (permalink)
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This has been known for quite some time.............. maybe months
Yep, it was stated ages ago on the net. However I saw the proximity sensor and enquired with HTC if it was a camera or not. They stated it was. I asked to confirm it was forward facing camera, they replied the second time again stating it was a forward facing camera.
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Old October 20th, 2010, 05:25 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Yep, it was stated ages ago on the net. However I saw the proximity sensor and enquired with HTC if it was a camera or not. They stated it was. I asked to confirm it was forward facing camera, they replied the second time again stating it was a forward facing camera.
Apologies, maybe forward all old email to HTC... May get some freebies
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Old December 9th, 2010, 07:07 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Whether or not it has a front-facing camera, you can run video chats through Fring. It's just that you have to turn the phone around. So if you want to see the screen, you have to use a mirror...
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Old December 9th, 2010, 07:10 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Whether or not it has a front-facing camera, you can run video chats through Fring. It's just that you have to turn the phone around. So if you want to see the screen, you have to use a mirror...
... or that Home | iSnapMe.com

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Old December 9th, 2010, 11:23 AM   #27 (permalink)
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that is not a front facing camera. I think its the light sensor.
Maybe HTC count that as being a one pixel camera?
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Old December 9th, 2010, 11:54 AM   #28 (permalink)
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No it's not a camera. It's a sensor.
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Old December 9th, 2010, 02:12 PM   #29 (permalink)
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No it's not a camera. It's a sensor.
Better late than never I suppose
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The HTC Desire HD is the big-screened successor to the HTC Desire, a device that took much of Europe by storm when launched in the spring of 2010. The Desire HD followed during fall of the same year, earning its title from a large 4.3-inch display,... Read More



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