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Old January 17th, 2011, 07:15 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Official Update to 2.3/Gingerbread?

Looks like we will not get the official update Does anyone have information on this?

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Old January 17th, 2011, 10:49 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Why not post your information about it, you must have some to make a statement like that!
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Old January 18th, 2011, 02:33 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Quick google hasn't found that HTC has anounced the gingerbread devices yet. I know they said they were going to do it soon, but theres nothing definitive out there yet.
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Old January 18th, 2011, 02:58 AM   #4 (permalink)
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I'm sure it will come, there's no reason why it wouldnt. Just be paient
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Old January 18th, 2011, 03:21 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danfrance View Post
Quick google hasn't found that HTC has anounced the gingerbread devices yet. I know they said they were going to do it soon, but theres nothing definitive out there yet.
I have noticed that too, amongst all the hundreds of threads on various sites crying "will we/wont we?" all the time....can people NEVER be paitent?
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Old January 18th, 2011, 04:36 AM   #6 (permalink)
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What about rooting using Unrevoked, and then flashing a GB ROM? If I can do it, anyone can...
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Old January 18th, 2011, 06:19 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Please if you are going to post a scandalous statement like that back it up with the source that you found it

I've got pretty much every RSS and news feed possible on my news reader and nothing has been announced yet.

As has been said above if they don't and you want it look into rooting and running GingerVillan or Oxygen until CM7 is released.

Have downloaded the latest Cyanogen nightly and going to try that today as from reading the comments on XDA it looks pretty stable already. Am still on DeFroST 6.1a at the moment and have just wiped and reinstalled again and not installed any Kernals or OC'd and running so much smoother and faster than when I had it OC'd and the best its done since I got it.
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Old January 18th, 2011, 06:24 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Unsubstantiated anti-desire statement from a nubee, do I detect an attempted destabilizing thread from the dark forces of iPhone or am I just being paranoid?
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Old January 18th, 2011, 06:32 AM   #9 (permalink)
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I haven't long got 2.2 on my Desire so I am sure I don't mind waiting for 2.3, 2.2 is great for me and still loving my Desire.
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Old January 18th, 2011, 06:41 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Okur View Post
Looks like we will not get the official update Does anyone have information on this?
Come on, let's hear why you say that! What's your source?
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Old January 18th, 2011, 06:48 AM   #11 (permalink)
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If HTC do not provide the regular updates to this phone (in timely fashion) there is no way I will ever buy a HTC android phone again. I really like this phone but lack of support will put me off upgrading. I already can't stand the HTC sync software, although very much like the HTC Sense system. I'm sure I'm not the only one who thinks this.
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Old January 18th, 2011, 07:07 AM   #12 (permalink)
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You'll find most manufacturer's will not support their phones with new updates forever. Also, it takes time to go through Quality testing etc.

HTC have to add their user interface to Android so it takes a bit longer. Then further delays on branded versions, as the carrier has to test also.
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Old January 18th, 2011, 07:11 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by joebloggscity View Post
If HTC do not provide the regular updates to this phone (in timely fashion) there is no way I will ever buy a HTC android phone again. I really like this phone but lack of support will put me off upgrading. I already can't stand the HTC sync software, although very much like the HTC Sense system. I'm sure I'm not the only one who thinks this.
to be fair, they actually ARE still supporting the desire....we've had the 2.2 froyo update, then a few others on top of that to fix certain bugs..

we cant ALWAYS expect to get a truly NEW update on everything...thats just selfish really, given that 2.3 doesnt REALLY give that much on top of Froyo compared to what Froyo did from Cupcake...

if you also look they are also spreading themselves on bringing 2.2 to alot of the other HTC handsets as well...little hard to focus on ONE phone when they have a large selection to update..
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Old January 18th, 2011, 07:38 AM   #14 (permalink)
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to be fair, they actually ARE still supporting the desire....we've had the 2.2 froyo update, then a few others on top of that to fix certain bugs..

we cant ALWAYS expect to get a truly NEW update on everything...thats just selfish really, given that 2.3 doesnt REALLY give that much on top of Froyo compared to what Froyo did from Cupcake...

if you also look they are also spreading themselves on bringing 2.2 to alot of the other HTC handsets as well...little hard to focus on ONE phone when they have a large selection to update..

haha. Well no, considering 2.3 (Gingerbread) is only one version up from 2.2 (froyo), but 2.2 is 3/4*** versions up from 1.5 (cupcake)

Not sure 1.6 Donut added a great deal to Cupcake, but 2.0 / 2.1 Eclaire added quite a lot to Donut


*** depending on how you class the 2.0 Eclair and 2.1 Eclair versions
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Old January 18th, 2011, 07:45 AM   #15 (permalink)
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haha. Well no, considering 2.3 (Gingerbread) is only one version up from 2.2 (froyo), but 2.2 is 3/4*** versions up from 1.5 (cupcake)

Not sure 1.6 Donut added a great deal to Cupcake, but 2.0 / 2.1 Eclaire added quite a lot to Donut


*** depending on how you class the 2.0 Eclair and 2.1 Eclair versions
whoops...my bad...I thought 2.1 was cupcake no eclair....Im sorry but as sweet tasting as the updates sound...its bloody confusing haha...

what I MEANT to say is 2.2 added quite alot over say 2.1 but 2.3 doesnt seem to have added a VAST amount on top of 2.2..

what I cant wait is when 3.0 is just bout to be released and everyone starts crying "when will HTC update us to 3.0"....given that we know its only for the SUPER high end adroid phones and the tablets due to the high resolution...I think its safe to say we WONT see it...

Besides cant people just be paitent....the Desire HD and Z havent even got 2.3 yet..nothing has been said bout ANYTHING updating officially...cant people JUST be happy with what they have...
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Old January 18th, 2011, 08:00 AM   #16 (permalink)
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I'm getting sick and tired of these threads!!

Mods should just lock and or delete them!

Only uses bandwidth.
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Old January 18th, 2011, 08:06 AM   #17 (permalink)
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whoops...my bad...I thought 2.1 was cupcake no eclair....Im sorry but as sweet tasting as the updates sound...its bloody confusing haha...

what I MEANT to say is 2.2 added quite alot over say 2.1 but 2.3 doesnt seem to have added a VAST amount on top of 2.2..

what I cant wait is when 3.0 is just bout to be released and everyone starts crying "when will HTC update us to 3.0"....given that we know its only for the SUPER high end adroid phones and the tablets due to the high resolution...I think its safe to say we WONT see it...

Besides cant people just be paitent....the Desire HD and Z havent even got 2.3 yet..nothing has been said bout ANYTHING updating officially...cant people JUST be happy with what they have...

true. Theres always the dev community after support is ceased. HTC hero was given one last push to 2.1 Eclair, before end of line. My fiance is rocking froyo though. yeah sure, no HTC sense but after a while, people get bored of it. Yeah Android is cusomisable, but HTC sense as a UI is not that customisable, compared to the likes of Launcherpro.
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Old January 18th, 2011, 08:16 AM   #18 (permalink)
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true. Theres always the dev community after support is ceased. HTC hero was given one last push to 2.1 Eclair, before end of line. My fiance is rocking froyo though. yeah sure, no HTC sense but after a while, people get bored of it. Yeah Android is cusomisable, but HTC sense as a UI is not that customisable, compared to the likes of Launcherpro.
I thought there now WAS a 2.2 update OFFICIALLY for the Hero now? I know the legend was now officially 2.2..

and hell yea launcher pro NEVER stops being customisable..lol
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Old January 18th, 2011, 08:39 AM   #19 (permalink)
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In fairness to the phone manufacturers, HTC or otherwise, I'm not sure why so many people think it's their God-given right to receive updates ad nausiam. I think it's fair to suggest that, given the speed at which the technology is moving now, any given model has a life of somewhere in the region of 18 months (give or take a bit). That's not to say that after 18 months the unit wil give up the ghost and die - it may go on for years and years - but it will most likely be superceded by better technology and higher spec phones as standard after this time. I understand that if you buy a new / top of the range model you expect a) to receive support for at least 18 months and b) to receive at least the next itteration of any OS (if not the next two) but to expect more than that is just rubbish. You wouldn't buy a PC and expect it to be able to run the latest version of Windows in 10 years time, so why would you expect the same of a smartphone? I would also remind folks that Microsoft charges you when you want to go from XP to Vista or Vista to Window 7. Android doesn't charge you for such upgrades.

Considering the Desire, when it was released I think it was running 2.1. In the last year it has received 2.2 and there is still no reason to believe that it shouldn't receive 2.3 - you already can if you root. Any more than that from HTC and you're into bonus time.
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Old January 18th, 2011, 09:37 AM   #20 (permalink)
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I thought there now WAS a 2.2 update OFFICIALLY for the Hero now? I know the legend was now officially 2.2..

and hell yea launcher pro NEVER stops being customisable..lol
No, The Legend is the repalcementfor the Hero. Official upgrade was to 2.1

I believe there are a few 2.2 legend ports to the hero (custom) but nothing fully working with sense
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Old January 18th, 2011, 09:39 AM   #21 (permalink)
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No, The Legend is the repalcementfor the Hero. Official upgrade was to 2.1

I believe there are a few 2.2 legend ports to the hero (custom) but nothing fully working with sense
ah right....well still the 'latest' crop of android sets are 2.2.....Nexus, Legend, Desire, Wildfire....yup even the lil brother of the desire is 2.2 now....though..to be fair given the LOOK of the wildfire I'd say its more baby brother of the nexus NOT desire..
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Old January 18th, 2011, 09:48 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Same sort of buttons, unlike the physical of the Desire, yup. It looks quite nice the WF. Shame about that screen and CPU though
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Old January 18th, 2011, 09:56 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Same sort of buttons, unlike the physical of the Desire, yup. It looks quite nice the WF. Shame about that screen and CPU though
yea but you gotta remember not everyone can afford a desire....so HTC have to compete with the cheaper end of the market too...and to be fair...the only other REAL trouble maker in the cheap end is the orange san fransisco....once its rooted and custom rom'ed of course lol

but yea screen and cpu are a let down but thanks to the 2.2 update it does run faster and its just a nice lil phone..my other half has it, and while she DOES love the screen on my desire she does like her lil wildfire..
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Old January 18th, 2011, 10:27 AM   #24 (permalink)
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The problem is when MF's like HTC start adding things like sense to the software. Add to this what the service providers add in too there is too much work involved in updating the devices. After a certain period of time it just isn't worth it.

That's why I went 'pure Google' with the Nexus S. Updates direct and quickly. I'll always have the updates first and don't need to wait for HTC, Samsung, O2 or Orange to fiddle with it first.

Vanilla Android makes a lot of 'sense'.
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Old January 18th, 2011, 11:15 AM   #25 (permalink)
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The problem is when MF's like HTC start adding things like sense to the software. Add to this what the service providers add in too there is too much work involved in updating the devices. After a certain period of time it just isn't worth it.

That's why I went 'pure Google' with the Nexus S. Updates direct and quickly. I'll always have the updates first and don't need to wait for HTC, Samsung, O2 or Orange to fiddle with it first.

Vanilla Android makes a lot of 'sense'.
Yeah. Cast your mind back to last may on the o2 forums - desire thread
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Old January 18th, 2011, 11:16 AM   #26 (permalink)
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yea but you gotta remember not everyone can afford a desire....so HTC have to compete with the cheaper end of the market too...and to be fair...the only other REAL trouble maker in the cheap end is the orange san fransisco....once its rooted and custom rom'ed of course lol

but yea screen and cpu are a let down but thanks to the 2.2 update it does run faster and its just a nice lil phone..my other half has it, and while she DOES love the screen on my desire she does like her lil wildfire..

Too true. I think so long ad you ate not coming from a desire, the wildfire is a stand-up choice
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Old January 18th, 2011, 11:18 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Ooh no, I've seen a couple here at work and the screen is horrid

Also, lot of anger in this thread...
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Old January 18th, 2011, 11:27 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Desire will get this, Desire will get that, won't get this, won't get that.

Always rumour and speculation without any facts to back things up.

Until I get an announcement from a reliable source I never believe it.
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Old January 18th, 2011, 11:48 AM   #29 (permalink)
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Tony, I have gingerbread for you.
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Old January 18th, 2011, 01:46 PM   #30 (permalink)
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I understand that if you buy a new / top of the range model you expect a) to receive support for at least 18 months and b) to receive at least the next itteration of any OS (if not the next two) but to expect more than that is just rubbish. You wouldn't buy a PC and expect it to be able to run the latest version of Windows in 10 years time, so why would you expect the same of a smartphone? I would also remind folks that Microsoft charges you when you want to go from XP to Vista or Vista to Window 7. Android doesn't charge you for such upgrades.
I think your point is interesting, but I have disagreed previously with someone else using a similar analogy.

For one, you've arbitrarily decided that 18 months is the de facto "support" period for a phone to be kept up to date. Why is this? You're apparently basing this so-called reasonable amount of time on the rate of technology advancement within the smartphone sector. You seem to be neglecting the fact that carriers who subsidise handsets, particularly in Europe, have contract lengths of between 18 and 24 months.

Let's also consider that Windows Updates usually GIVE you 10 years worth of bug fixes, for absolutely free. Whereas with an Android device, you're saying it's fair to pay a monthly subscription fee but then be left out in the cold after a time that you've decided is reasonable. No, a consumer shouldn't expect a brand new version of Android, but fact is a lot of these are point releases. They fix BUGS and PROBLEMS and ISSUES. Not unlike a patch. You shouldn't have to pay for a patch, and so why is it not reasonable for people to expect they get a patch?

Your analogy holds no water at all. Desktop operating systems are kept up to date for free for the support lifetime of the operating system (which with Windows is usually a decade or something) for a one off payment for the operating system itself. With a smartphone you're at the mercy of the carrier and manufacturer irrespective of whether you're paying a monthly fee or you bought it outright. It's completely different.
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Old January 18th, 2011, 02:32 PM   #31 (permalink)
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No, a consumer shouldn't expect a brand new version of Android, but fact is a lot of these are point releases. They fix BUGS and PROBLEMS and ISSUES. Not unlike a patch. You shouldn't have to pay for a pat
problem is MOST of the people who 'want' 2.3 and above (wait for the 3.0 lot to appear IF they havent already) and those who create THESE type of threads...DONT want it because it can fix things..they just WANT it so they feel they have one better than before...

as has been said numerous times 2.3 gingerbread doesnt give that much over 2.2 froyo as say 2.2 did over 2.1 which was quite a fair bit...but yet we STILL have people bitching and crying "I want 2.3!!" "THEY ARENT RELEASING I...A POX ON HTC!!! ON ANDROID!!!! IM GOING TO IPHONE!!!!" yadda yadda.....we've heard this all before...

thats the point people are making about support timing with devices such as smartphones etc...at least how I and others see it anyway..
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Old January 18th, 2011, 03:15 PM   #32 (permalink)
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I understand that, all I was saying is that his analogy between a mobile OS like Android and something like Windows for PC is not valid because they're treated completely differently.

I appreciate that a lot of people on these forums are bitching and moaning to get 2.3 for the sake of it. However, I am not one of those people. He was specifically making reference to updates that include point releases, and so that is what my post was addressing; not the wider issues of people generally moaning.
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Old January 18th, 2011, 04:34 PM   #33 (permalink)
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my GF has just got a nexus S and TBH 2.3 seems to be not much more than a UI update....having seen how minor the update seemed from 2.1 to 2.2 and have now used 2.3 I think I can wait.... massive fuss over not that much! be happy with what you have! the grass isn't always greener...
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Old January 18th, 2011, 04:41 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Everyone should either stop whining or get a Nexus One or a Nexus S, so you'll have all your precious updates on time.
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Old January 18th, 2011, 04:57 PM   #35 (permalink)
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my GF has just got a nexus S and TBH 2.3 seems to be not much more than a UI update....having seen how minor the update seemed from 2.1 to 2.2 and have now used 2.3 I think I can wait.... massive fuss over not that much! be happy with what you have! the grass isn't always greener...
to be fair there was quite a difference between 2.1 and 2.2....namely full user flash and the apps2sd without rooting (which yes I know was perfect but still) there was alot of other lil things too and bug fixes...much more than say the difference between 2.3 and 2.2...

but I do agree the fuss is a lil much for something thats well not much different at all...just people want to be the 'ones with the latest kit'....
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Old January 19th, 2011, 09:15 AM   #36 (permalink)
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I think your point is interesting, but I have disagreed previously with someone else using a similar analogy.

For one, you've arbitrarily decided that 18 months is the de facto "support" period for a phone to be kept up to date. Why is this? You're apparently basing this so-called reasonable amount of time on the rate of technology advancement within the smartphone sector. You seem to be neglecting the fact that carriers who subsidise handsets, particularly in Europe, have contract lengths of between 18 and 24 months.

Let's also consider that Windows Updates usually GIVE you 10 years worth of bug fixes, for absolutely free. Whereas with an Android device, you're saying it's fair to pay a monthly subscription fee but then be left out in the cold after a time that you've decided is reasonable. No, a consumer shouldn't expect a brand new version of Android, but fact is a lot of these are point releases. They fix BUGS and PROBLEMS and ISSUES. Not unlike a patch. You shouldn't have to pay for a patch, and so why is it not reasonable for people to expect they get a patch?

Your analogy holds no water at all. Desktop operating systems are kept up to date for free for the support lifetime of the operating system (which with Windows is usually a decade or something) for a one off payment for the operating system itself. With a smartphone you're at the mercy of the carrier and manufacturer irrespective of whether you're paying a monthly fee or you bought it outright. It's completely different.
Fair comments. I chose 18 months as this is the approximate speed at which I see the technology moving. I appreciate that carriers tend to offer 24 as well as 18 month contracts, but I don't think this has much of a baring on anything; at least twice now I have taken a new model of phone on an 18 month contract and after 15 months it's been U/S - one of them was the G1. Do carriers do this intentionally? I couldn't say. I'd like to think not, but it's also a happy co-incidence that they are able to lock someone into a new contract as a phone dies / is no longer supported / is no longer cutting edge. Just saying.

Regarding my Android v PC OS analogy. Again, I can see your point and to an extent agree. However, I still believe that the patches you refer to are NOT the same as jumping from 2.0-2.1, 2.1-2.2, etc. When I was receiving OTA updates I'd receive several in between any new Android version that were patches to fix bugs, etc, much like you do with a PC. Yes, these should be on-going. But I still thing the 2.1-2.2-2.3 / XP-Vista-Win7 analogy stands as these are direct new versions of an OS, not patches.

But then, maybe we're all comparing apples (s'cure the pun) and oranges (and again). Maybe the concept of an upgradable smartphone OS and the fact that it is a) more intrinsically tied to a unique technology - certain phones using specific tech - and b) unavailable to buy as a standalone upgrade from the shops in the same way that Windows is, is still sufficiently unique that we cannot draw simple analogies or find ready-made solutions. Maybe we're on a new road now, and have to find for ourselves what is right and what is wrong, what is acceptable as the consumer and what is unpalatable.
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Old January 19th, 2011, 09:22 AM   #37 (permalink)
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to be fair gingerbread does not bring much new stuff to the table, u dont really need it. However if like me u want it then root the phone and download. im using oxygen 2.3 and its fast and slick for a beta.
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Old January 19th, 2011, 09:29 AM   #38 (permalink)
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Its crisper Aesthetically. A few new menu options, not much but dark themed which is nice. Esepcially on the Amoled desire.
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Old January 19th, 2011, 09:39 AM   #39 (permalink)
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Its crisper Aesthetically. A few new menu options, not much but dark themed which is nice. Esepcially on the Amoled desire.
actually after seeing it running in the flesh on the Nexus S I dont much like the change from white to black with certain menus....it lacks the definition on some things...like same for example...when you hit the menu key on the homescreen and the box comes up with "themes, wallpaper, apps, add etc etc" I liked the white and the fact each box was clear...on the new version its like all black and bleh..

I dunno after having many many MANY phones over the years I've kinda gotten REALLY sick of seeing black undefined menus and such...and yes im aware the core android menus are still the same black :P lol but thats different lol...shush :P
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Old January 19th, 2011, 09:48 AM   #40 (permalink)
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Am I missing something but I just do not get this idea that there is any obligation to keep devices upgraded with the latest software.

If I buy a car it is because at the point that I make the purchase it represents the offer that best suits my needs or wallet. If it develops a fault I expect the vendor to put it right, and if the manufacturer discovers an issue which might develop in to a probelm I expect them to do a recall and fix it. But if they develop a new model with a better engine I do not expect them to upgrade my car.

Likewise with a phone, I signed up for the Desire because at the time I did so it provided the best solution for my needs. I was happy with the Froyo update because it sorted a few niggles I had, none of which were really a major problem. If they do not offer a Gingerbread upgrade then I will still have a phone that I am more than happy with.

Maybe a better approach for the sake of your peace of mind would be to just be happy if you get an upgrade rather than planning to be unhappy if you don't!!!
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Old January 19th, 2011, 09:51 AM   #41 (permalink)
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Am I missing something but I just do not get this idea that there is any obligation to keep devices upgraded with the latest software.
I agree. But its good that they do do it for a period.
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Old January 19th, 2011, 11:19 AM   #42 (permalink)
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If you are using the device to solve some business and/or personal tasks and the phone is performing satisfactory, you don't bother what version of software you are using !

If you want to have ALWAYS the newest device, the newest software and applications, just change your phone every 6 months to one year !

End of the story !

There is no Manufacturer in this world to support ALL devices for an infinite time limit for ALL new software releases !

I'm sure that for most smartphone users it's a "must have gadget" not a real need ! So, if you have the money, buy a new gadget every year ! This is what all Vendords want from you !

P.S. I'm a normal user, I'm not working for a phone Manufacturer/Distributor...
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Old January 19th, 2011, 11:33 AM   #43 (permalink)
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There is no Manufacturer in this world to support ALL devices for an infinite time limit for ALL new software releases !
maybe not ALL devices...but...

NOKIA!

yes...those makers old dying symbian phones...

they STILL update the 5800....yea seriously...I kid you not...last time I checked they sent v52 firmware out LAST decemeber......yea...seriously...
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Old January 19th, 2011, 12:03 PM   #44 (permalink)
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NOKIA!

yes...those makers old dying symbian phones...

they STILL update the 5800....
probably because the 5800 was the last decent phone Nokia made.
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Old January 19th, 2011, 12:03 PM   #45 (permalink)
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To be fair, google is still in the process of sort this issue out. If you have noticed they have started to release their app in a different cycle to the rest of the OS. I think that is how they want to move towards a more modulated approach. This would make it much easier for the developers of the manufacturers. As the more that Google can fit into just the marketplace, the less they have to adjust specifically for the phone.

I personally feel that the move towards a more modulated update is preferred.
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Old January 19th, 2011, 12:08 PM   #46 (permalink)
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probably because the 5800 was the last decent phone Nokia made.
well thats damn right....bloody n97 just wasnt as good I feel...had quite a few major bugs in them along with the mini too...

the 5800 was actually quite stable...if ugly and quite cheap too lol
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Old January 19th, 2011, 12:21 PM   #47 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Yathushan View Post
To be fair, google is still in the process of sort this issue out. If you have noticed they have started to release their app in a different cycle to the rest of the OS. I think that is how they want to move towards a more modulated approach. This would make it much easier for the developers of the manufacturers. As the more that Google can fit into just the marketplace, the less they have to adjust specifically for the phone.

I personally feel that the move towards a more modulated update is preferred.
I agree. Since getting 2.2 (I started on 2.1 and wanted 2.2, which I'm very happy with, 2.3 would be kinda nice I guess but if not I am not going to have any bad feelings whatsoever towards HTC) we've had several updates to things like gmail which previously we might have had to wait for OS updates for, and those updates have been very worthwhile adding some nice features and fixing a few bugs, I'm very happy with the updates I've received.
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Old January 19th, 2011, 12:46 PM   #48 (permalink)
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probably because the 5800 was the last decent phone Nokia made.
A little harsh . Up until getting the Desire in May last year I had an N82 which was a very solid phone with an excellent camera and a good set of features for its time. Of course now it looks like it belongs in a museum but I was a happy little user while it was all I had.
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Old January 19th, 2011, 01:18 PM   #49 (permalink)
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Tony, I have gingerbread for you.
GingerVillain, eh? That's quite a change for you, Mr Defrost! How's that working so far?
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Old January 19th, 2011, 01:50 PM   #50 (permalink)
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A little harsh . Up until getting the Desire in May last year I had an N82 which was a very solid phone with an excellent camera and a good set of features for its time. Of course now it looks like it belongs in a museum but I was a happy little user while it was all I had.
the n82 was released the year before 5800 :P so Mr Evil's comment can be pretty valid...I mean what did they release later?....n97? yea....right lol....the n8? ahahah...yea...NEXT!
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