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Quote:
Originally Posted by Montana Man
'04, baybee!
When the kids were little I took them to their first Yankees game at the old Yankee Stadium. It was against Boston. Big mistake. Fights broke out in the stands near the kids.
I was wrong. I'm sorry. I didn't originate that information, I was just trying to pass it on, but it seems to be false.
But it's not as illogical as you think. When processor manufacturers such as intel rate processors, they do stability tests and then usually rate them below where they are perfectly stable to create a safe zone buffer. say Intel does tests and finds a processor stable at 3.2 GHz, then they will rate it as a 2.8 GHz processor. This is a very common practice with processors, and they aren't considered "failed" processors, but are just lower rated. I thought this would be plausible for the Snapdragon chips, but like you I was unable to find any corroborating evidence.
Once again, I should have done more research instead of relying on that post being accurate, so that's my bad, but it's not like that was a totally rediculous explanation for why it was rated lower.
Understood, and no worries. I think you are in essence saying the same thing I am. In your example of Intel, I think you are right on. The difference is that Intel has a large large number of processors that share the same architecture, but are meant to be rated at different speeds. In that case, a chip can possibly be sold as a lower-speed processor, although intended to be higher-rated, along with others intended to be that way as long as it meets the lower qualifications
I think the difference here is that Qualcomm intends to rate all the 8650 chips at 1GHz, and the suggestion that HTC and Verizon would choose to put these chips that failed to meet that spec, and were subsequently given a rating of 768MHz (an un-listed, "B-stock-type" product) in their new, "Incredible," flagship phone is highly unlikely, especially since HTC is not doing the same with its other high-end devices.
You saw what Mandrew posted way back on pg 106 and it was impressive (hell I still don't know exactly what it is) so you repeated it, it happens. Yes chip makers will rate their chips lower then they can max sustain. But that always makes a new model number. I just think its important to know what the model the chip is for certain because if the model number changes then other features of the snapdragon may be missing.
Exactly. That's why the 1.3GHz snapdragon is the 8650A.
Last edited by DroidAV8R; March 12th, 2010 at 12:16 AM.
Understood, and no worries. I think you are in essence saying the same thing I am. In your example of Intel, I think you are right on. The difference is that Intel has a large large number of processors that share the same architecture, but are meant to be rated at different speeds. In that case, a chip can possibly be sold as a lower-speed processor, although intended to be higher-rated, along with others intended to be that way as long as it meets the lower qualifications
I think the difference here is that Qualcomm intends to rate all the 8650 chips at 1GHz, and the suggestion that HTC and Verizon would choose to put these chips that failed to meet that spec, and were subsequently given a rating of 768MHz (an un-listed, "B-stock-type" product) in their new, "Incredible," flagship phone is highly unlikely, especially since HTC is not doing the same with its other high-end devices.
Your argument that they aren't putting lower rated processors in high-end products is valid, but HTC and Verizon have also not underclocked their processors in high end devices, so who's to say one is more likely than the other.
Edit: (We know this isn't the case because another model doesn't exist...this was just my thinking when believing that a lower rated processor was being used)
Last edited by woodraskam; March 12th, 2010 at 12:00 AM.
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Your argument that they aren't putting lower rated processors in high-end products is valid, but HTC and Verizon have also not underclocked their processors in high end devices, so who's to say one is more likely than the other.
Could still just be a testing thing. Keep in mind the Droiddeveloper leak said it was running at 850mhz. Maybe he was wrong or maybe its just part of testing.
A simpler understanding for all of us... Put a little perspective on it all.
There are two types of people in this world. These two different types are going to buy a new car. Magically they narrow it down to the same two cars.
Car A is a v8 with 350 horsepower. It is foreign so the customer service is pretty shabby. Parts take a long time to get in, they don't give you a loaner car when you do need repairs, and you have to buy the car before you even get to handle it.
Car B is a v6 with 330 horsepower. It is a foreign car too but it is sold through a domestic dealership. The dealership stays in business by providing service to this car. They keep parts in stock, they will be in your area to answer questions right away, and if god forbid your car is a lemon they will replace it or loan ya something while you wait for repairs. It's got a little less go but gets 5 miles more per gallon and has a sweet leather interior and cool cockpit displays.
Type of person 1: Goes to dealerships and says I need the car with the most power. It has to be at least a v8 with 350 horsepower. The domestic dealer tries to persuade him to his car. Listen all I have is a v6 but it only has 20 horsepower less then the v8. You also get better gas mileage so you don't have to stop for fuel every 4 hours on trips. Also it has this great interior. "Don't believe me, go take it for a spin."
Person 1: "No, sorry. It doesn't have a v8. It's not good enough for me."
goes to foreign dealer. Dealer says, "I don't have one here but if you pay for it I'll get you a v8 car." Person 1 agrees and buys car A.
Type of person 2: Goes to dealerships and says I need a car that is FAST. Foreign dealer says I got a v8. It is awesome. I don't have one here but if you buy it I can get it to you. Here is a brochure. Person 2 says he is going to look at this other car. He goes to the domestic dealership and they show him right to the car. He gets in it. "Man this leather interior is nice. Oh it looks like it gets a little more MPG too. Can I drive it?" Sure! Person 2 goes tearing around town. Damn this thing is FAST! Dealer says, "it sure is. Best part you can have this one right now, if you ever have any problems just stop by and we'll get you fixed right up." Person 2 buys car B not really caring about the number stuff but more about his experience with it.
So ask yourself. Are you Type of person 1 or 2? And just in case some one is real slow Car A=nexus one. Car B=Incredible. Person 1=people who are basing a decision on a number. Person 2=people who base decisions on real world application...aka the sane ones. haha
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A simpler understanding for all of us... Put a little perspective on it all.
There are two types of people in this world. These two different types are going to buy a new car. Magically they narrow it down to the same two cars.
Car A is a v8 with 350 horsepower. It is foreign so the customer service is pretty shabby. Parts take a long time to get in, they don't give you a loaner car when you do need repairs, and you have to buy the car before you even get to handle it.
Car B is a v6 with 330 horsepower. It is a foreign car too but it is sold through a domestic dealership. The dealership stays in business by providing service to this car. They keep parts in stock, they will be in your area to answer questions right away, and if god forbid your car is a lemon they will replace it or loan ya something while you wait for repairs. It's got a little less go but gets 5 miles more per gallon and has a sweet leather interior and cool cockpit displays.
Type of person 1: Goes to dealerships and says I need the car with the most power. It has to be at least a v8 with 350 horsepower. The domestic dealer tries to persuade him to his car. Listen all I have is a v6 but it only has 20 horsepower less then the v8. You also get better gas mileage so you don't have to stop for fuel every 4 hours on trips. Also it has this great interior. "Don't believe me, go take it for a spin."
Person 1: "No, sorry. It doesn't have a v8. It's not good enough for me."
goes to foreign dealer. Dealer says, "I don't have one here but if you pay for it I'll get you a v8 car." Person 1 agrees and buys car A.
Type of person 2: Goes to dealerships and says I need a car that is FAST. Foreign dealer says I got a v8. It is awesome. I don't have one here but if you buy it I can get it to you. Here is a brochure. Person 2 says he is going to look at this other car. He goes to the domestic dealership and they show him right to the car. He gets in it. "Man this leather interior is nice. Oh it looks like it gets a little more MPG too. Can I drive it?" Sure! Person 2 goes tearing around town. Damn this thing is FAST! Dealer says, "it sure is. Best part you can have this one right now, if you ever have any problems just stop by and we'll get you fixed right up." Person 2 buys car B not really caring about the number stuff but more about his experience with it.
So ask yourself. Are you Type of person 1 or 2? And just in case some one is real slow Car A=nexus one. Car B=Incredible. Person 1=people who are basing a decision on a number. Person 2=people who base decisions on real world application...aka the sane ones. haha
I dont get it. Could you maybe create a longer analogy that would be simpler to understand?
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Your argument that they aren't putting lower rated processors in high-end products is valid, but HTC and Verizon have also not underclocked their processors in high end devices, so who's to say one is more likely than the other.
See..technically speaking all phones released are obsolete. Not just my Eris that I have grown accustomed to ATK'ing every time I return to the home screen to ensure i'll have enough oomph left to open the next program.
You are right though that HTC put an inferior processor in a phone(s) and Verizon knew this and sold it anyway. Ahem...Droid Eris, Touch Pro 2, Imagio. ::rimshot:: Sure it isn't technically speaking an inferior processor but c'mon you and I and all of us know full well it was just to reduce their stock of the MSMs.
Wow, after a marathon read today, I'm more than excited to get my hands on this phone. I also have to agree with calling BS on the 6GB ROM, way overkill for a ROM.
As far as 1GHz vs 768MHz, I would rather have the extended battery life with 768MHz then a fraction of a second faster response time.
The biggest selling point for me is the Sense UI 2.1 and WVGA support with the Incredible, otherwise the Eris would be fine for me. Have yet to see any camera phone compare to a Canon 40D, so that is not an issue.
Thank you NKT for the outstanding information, I just wish VZ would release this phone sooner rather than later
A simpler understanding for all of us... Put a little perspective on it all.
There are two types of people in this world. These two different types are going to buy a new car. Magically they narrow it down to the same two cars.
Car A is a v8 with 350 horsepower. It is foreign so the customer service is pretty shabby. Parts take a long time to get in, they don't give you a loaner car when you do need repairs, and you have to buy the car before you even get to handle it.
Car B is a v6 with 330 horsepower. It is a foreign car too but it is sold through a domestic dealership. The dealership stays in business by providing service to this car. They keep parts in stock, they will be in your area to answer questions right away, and if god forbid your car is a lemon they will replace it or loan ya something while you wait for repairs. It's got a little less go but gets 5 miles more per gallon and has a sweet leather interior and cool cockpit displays.
Type of person 1: Goes to dealerships and says I need the car with the most power. It has to be at least a v8 with 350 horsepower. The domestic dealer tries to persuade him to his car. Listen all I have is a v6 but it only has 20 horsepower less then the v8. You also get better gas mileage so you don't have to stop for fuel every 4 hours on trips. Also it has this great interior. "Don't believe me, go take it for a spin."
Person 1: "No, sorry. It doesn't have a v8. It's not good enough for me."
goes to foreign dealer. Dealer says, "I don't have one here but if you pay for it I'll get you a v8 car." Person 1 agrees and buys car A.
Type of person 2: Goes to dealerships and says I need a car that is FAST. Foreign dealer says I got a v8. It is awesome. I don't have one here but if you buy it I can get it to you. Here is a brochure. Person 2 says he is going to look at this other car. He goes to the domestic dealership and they show him right to the car. He gets in it. "Man this leather interior is nice. Oh it looks like it gets a little more MPG too. Can I drive it?" Sure! Person 2 goes tearing around town. Damn this thing is FAST! Dealer says, "it sure is. Best part you can have this one right now, if you ever have any problems just stop by and we'll get you fixed right up." Person 2 buys car B not really caring about the number stuff but more about his experience with it.
So ask yourself. Are you Type of person 1 or 2? And just in case some one is real slow Car A=nexus one. Car B=Incredible. Person 1=people who are basing a decision on a number. Person 2=people who base decisions on real world application...aka the sane ones. haha
Both cars may get upgraded components in the future, and it's likely that Car A will get these upgrades installed before Car B.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paxri01
Wow, after a marathon read today, I'm more than excited to get my hands on this phone. I also have to agree with calling BS on the 6GB ROM, way overkill for a ROM.
As far as 1GHz vs 768MHz, I would rather have the extended battery life with 768MHz then a fraction of a second faster response time.
The biggest selling point for me is the Sense UI 2.1 and WVGA support with the Incredible, otherwise the Eris would be fine for me. Have yet to see any camera phone compare to a Canon 40D, so that is not an issue.
Thank you NKT for the outstanding information, I just wish VZ would release this phone sooner rather than later
BTW, finally stepping out of the shadows too.
Welcome! Enjoy your time here. These are good people with alot of helpful info.. we appreciate that you took the time to read the thread rather than having the info spoonfed to you.
@woodraskam - Thank you for that link as well because it just goes to show that the Incredible likely will have better battery life than the Eris even though it has nearly twice the computing power(in Mhz) because if the 1.3Ghz Snapdragon is 30% more efficient than the 1.0Ghz Snapdragon you can imagine how much more efficient the 1.0Ghz Snapdragon is than the aged 528Mhz MSM7600 in the Droid Eris.
Both cars may get upgraded components in the future, and it's likely that Car A will get these upgrades installed before Car B.
Point being that is the stuff you should be thinking about. Not bitching and moaning about a number that really means jack squat. Reminds me of people that go around trying to compare contrast ratios on tvs between different manufactures.
A simpler understanding for all of us... Put a little perspective on it all.
There are two types of people in this world. These two different types are going to buy a new car. Magically they narrow it down to the same two cars.
Car A is a v8 with 350 horsepower. It is foreign so the customer service is pretty shabby. Parts take a long time to get in, they don't give you a loaner car when you do need repairs, and you have to buy the car before you even get to handle it.
...
Damn... Normally I hate people that say this but TL;DR.
Your argument that they aren't putting lower rated processors in high-end products is valid, but HTC and Verizon have also not underclocked their processors in high end devices, so who's to say one is more likely than the other.
Absolutely. Notice that the 1.3GHz processor is labeled "8650A" and not "8650"? There, Qualcomm is distinguishing the 1.3GHz from the 1GHz. Unless I've missed something, there are currently 3 classes of snapdragon chips being manufactured by Qualcomm. The 8x50 (1GHz); the 8x50A (1.3GHz), and the 8x72 (1.5GHz, Dual Core). There is no evidence that a 768MHz Snapdragon is intentionally being produced by Qualcomm.
IMHO, whether the chip is under clocked or not is irrelevant to the point I'm trying to make. I'm saying that a 768MHz, factory rated snapdragon does not appear to exist. VZW/HTC are not likely to buy chips that failed testing at their targeted rating, and are essentially being sold out the factory back door for pennies on the dollar, instead of buying legitimate, rated 8650 chipsets that have been under clocked to fit the specific purpose that HTC/VZW have in mind.
A simpler understanding for all of us... Put a little perspective on it all.
There are two types of people in this world. These two different types are going to buy a new car. Magically they narrow it down to the same two cars.
Car A is a v8 with 350 horsepower. It is foreign so the customer service is pretty shabby. Parts take a long time to get in, they don't give you a loaner car when you do need repairs, and you have to buy the car before you even get to handle it.
Car B is a v6 with 330 horsepower. It is a foreign car too but it is sold through a domestic dealership. The dealership stays in business by providing service to this car. They keep parts in stock, they will be in your area to answer questions right away, and if god forbid your car is a lemon they will replace it or loan ya something while you wait for repairs. It's got a little less go but gets 5 miles more per gallon and has a sweet leather interior and cool cockpit displays.
Type of person 1: Goes to dealerships and says I need the car with the most power. It has to be at least a v8 with 350 horsepower. The domestic dealer tries to persuade him to his car. Listen all I have is a v6 but it only has 20 horsepower less then the v8. You also get better gas mileage so you don't have to stop for fuel every 4 hours on trips. Also it has this great interior. "Don't believe me, go take it for a spin."
Person 1: "No, sorry. It doesn't have a v8. It's not good enough for me."
goes to foreign dealer. Dealer says, "I don't have one here but if you pay for it I'll get you a v8 car." Person 1 agrees and buys car A.
Type of person 2: Goes to dealerships and says I need a car that is FAST. Foreign dealer says I got a v8. It is awesome. I don't have one here but if you buy it I can get it to you. Here is a brochure. Person 2 says he is going to look at this other car. He goes to the domestic dealership and they show him right to the car. He gets in it. "Man this leather interior is nice. Oh it looks like it gets a little more MPG too. Can I drive it?" Sure! Person 2 goes tearing around town. Damn this thing is FAST! Dealer says, "it sure is. Best part you can have this one right now, if you ever have any problems just stop by and we'll get you fixed right up." Person 2 buys car B not really caring about the number stuff but more about his experience with it.
So ask yourself. Are you Type of person 1 or 2? And just in case some one is real slow Car A=nexus one. Car B=Incredible. Person 1=people who are basing a decision on a number. Person 2=people who base decisions on real world application...aka the sane ones. haha
So what dealer sells a model of car that they don't have on the lot and that they will sell you only if you buy it first without test driving it.
On the analogy scale this is probably a 3 or so. Try this analogy:
Are you A. a person that buys something based on specs and sight unseen or B. someone who buys on specs but insists that you can either return it if you are unsatisfied with it or must be allowed to try it out first.
It is a much simpler approach. Plus unlike with cars we can swap out every 2 years with only a small penalty of extending our contract. Oh man I wish I could do that with cars. Sweeeeeeeetttt!!!!!!
EDIT: Wouldn't the V6 with 330hp be the obvious choice since 20hp is not enough of a performance boost to overcome the inherent weight gain of a larger engine(assumed larger since it has 350hp). If the V8 producing 350hp is in fact the same size as the V6 then technically speaking it is a more efficient engine since it wouldn't have to work as hard as the V6 would. I.e. 3.5Liter V6 producing 330hp is less efficient than a 3.5L V8 producing 350hp because the V8 makes more horsepower per liter thus making it a more efficient engine.
P.S. Don't go on HP per cylinder because that isn't a performance measurement.
Last edited by Evolved; March 12th, 2010 at 12:16 AM.
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See..technically speaking all phones released are obsolete. Not just my Eris that I have grown accustomed to ATK'ing every time I return to the home screen to ensure i'll have enough oomph left to open the next program.
You are right though that HTC put an inferior processor in a phone(s) and Verizon knew this and sold it anyway. Ahem...Droid Eris, Touch Pro 2, Imagio. ::rimshot:: Sure it isn't technically speaking an inferior processor but c'mon you and I and all of us know full well it was just to reduce their stock of the MSMs.
::shakes fist at HTC::
Agreed! But all of those MSM's were listed products.
Point being that is the stuff you should be thinking about. Not bitching and moaning about a number that really means jack squat. Reminds me of people that go around trying to compare contrast ratios on tvs between different manufactures.
As much as you say it doesn't matter, some people may really appreciate the speed up in processing power, as well as not having the overhead processing for Sense. Saying that this means jack squat isn't really true, unless there isn't a speed up that is perceivable by the user, but as other have mentioned, when using an overclocked DROID they can tell the difference.
In short many people like the gas guzzler even if they have to refill it more often, or carry around a spare tank of gas.
Absolutely. Notice that the 1.3GHz processor is labeled "8650A" and not "8650"? There, Qualcomm is distinguishing the 1.3GHz from the 1GHz. Unless I've missed something, there are currently 3 classes of snapdragon chips being manufactured by Qualcomm. The 8x50 (1GHz); the 8x50A (1.3GHz), and the 8x72 (1.5GHz, Dual Core). There is no evidence that a 768MHz Snapdragon is intentionally being produced by Qualcomm.
IMHO, whether the chip is under clocked or not is irrelevant to the point I'm trying to make. I'm saying that a 768MHz, factory rated snapdragon does not appear to exist. VZW/HTC are not likely to buy chips that failed testing at their targeted rating, and are essentially being sold out the factory back door for pennies on the dollar, instead of buying legitimate, rated 8650 chipsets that have been under clocked to fit the specific purpose that HTC/VZW have in mind.
I agree, I actually thought my last post was gonna be misleading so I went back and edited to say that's my reasoning (You just must have refreshed before I made the edit), when I believed the lower rated processor existed, but now that I know there is no such processor, I know that they aren't using a lower rated processor.
So what dealer sells a model of car that they don't have on the lot and that they will sell you only if you buy it first without test driving it.
On the analogy scale this is probably a 3 or so. Try this analogy:
Are you A. a person that buys something based on specs and sight unseen or B. someone who buys on specs but insists that you can either return it if you are unsatisfied with it or must be allowed to try it out first.
It is a much simpler approach. Plus unlike with cars we can swap out every 2 years with only a small penalty of extending our contract. Oh man I wish I could do that with cars. Sweeeeeeeetttt!!!!!!
EDIT: Wouldn't the V6 with 330hp be the obvious choice since 20hp is not enough of a performance boost to overcome the inherent weight gain of a larger engine(assumed larger since it has 350hp). If the V8 producing 350hp is in fact the same size as the V6 then technically speaking it is a more efficient engine since it wouldn't have to work as hard as the V6 would. I.e. 3.5Liter V6 producing 330hp is less efficient than a 3.5L V8 producing 350hp because the V8 makes more horsepower per liter thus making it a more efficient engine.
P.S. Don't go on HP per cylinder because that isn't a performance measurement.
much better. im tired and rambling. Although I would take out the part of person b and replace it with person b: buys a car based on how well it drives rather then specs.
As much as you say it doesn't matter, some people may really appreciate the speed up in processing power, as well as not having the overhead processing for Sense. Saying that this means jack squat isn't really true, unless there isn't a speed up that is perceivable by the user, but as other have mentioned, when using an overclocked DROID they can tell the difference.
In short many people like the gas guzzler even if they have to refill it more often, or carry around a spare tank of gas.
Every person I have seen with a gas guzzler bitches and moans every time gas gets above $2 a gallon.
I agree, I actually thought my last post was gonna be misleading so I went back and edited to say that's my reasoning (You just must have refreshed before I made the edit), when I believed the lower rated processor existed, but now that I know there is no such processor, I know that they aren't using a lower rated processor.
It's all good Even if this phone stays at 768MHz, I'd bet the software is optomized for it, and Incredible will kick serious ass! NKT ran it side by side with the N1 and said both were faster than the Droid, and both were equally as fast as one another. Not bad at all considering that Incredible was running Sense UI and N1 was just running plane old Android 2.1!
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Helicooper, that was an excellent, detailed automobile / phone analogy and I applaud you for it! However, that was one aspect that I had a pretty good grasp on already. Perhaps you, Nash, Woop, Woodraskam, or Ruben (the Sense Guru) could put together a similar, detailed, thorough analogy regarding the difference between stock Android and Sense UI. To me, being brand new to Android AND smartphones as a whole, that's the one I am having the most difficult time getting my mind around. Much thanks in advance!!!
Last edited by Montana Man; March 12th, 2010 at 12:50 AM.
Hello all.... Been a lurker for about as long as this thread has been active, and with all that's transpired with NKT's revelations today thought I might throw out a question. I'm not very well versed in the technology of mobile phones, but in reading up on the snapdragon had a thought-- if the 8650 supports GSM and CDMA what is keeping this phone from being a "world phone"?
From my understanding the processor controls all the radio function, and an antennae is an antennae- as long as you can access the frequencies processor-wise there shouldn't be much limitation to using them.
Do you need a SIM card, or can that information be integrated into the software/firmware as a unique identifier of each unit?
In my simplistic understanding- all a SIM card does is give a unique identifier to the individual phone on the network- it also gives you the option to use a GSM phone on different networks by replacing with a SIM for that provider.
Long story short- could Verizon activate GSM band communication like they did for the BB Tour for use internationally only without the SIM option so you would have to pay roaming charges to VZW for your airtime in other countries... Kind of a sucky second rate option, but at least the phone isn't a brick on international travel.
Other than that I guess you could depend on Wifi and Skype for intl calling...
Anybody know anything about limitations that I am missing? My guess is that i am missing something pretty huge or else google would have adopted this chip for the Nexus one- added a SIM slot and said "free for all- give us 530 smackaroos and you can take this badboy to any network anywhere- the processor has support for every provider the world over- pick the one that works best in your area..." Their "revolutionary" marketing scheme would have been much more revolutionary if they hadn't tied the phone to a single provider or technology by choosing a chip limited to GSM band.
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A simpler understanding for all of us... Put a little perspective on it all.
There are two types of people in this world. These two different types are going to buy a new car. Magically they narrow it down to the same two cars.
Car A is a v8 with 350 horsepower. It is foreign so the customer service is pretty shabby. Parts take a long time to get in, they don't give you a loaner car when you do need repairs, and you have to buy the car before you even get to handle it.
Car B is a v6 with 330 horsepower. It is a foreign car too but it is sold through a domestic dealership. The dealership stays in business by providing service to this car. They keep parts in stock, they will be in your area to answer questions right away, and if god forbid your car is a lemon they will replace it or loan ya something while you wait for repairs. It's got a little less go but gets 5 miles more per gallon and has a sweet leather interior and cool cockpit displays.
Type of person 1: Goes to dealerships and says I need the car with the most power. It has to be at least a v8 with 350 horsepower. The domestic dealer tries to persuade him to his car. Listen all I have is a v6 but it only has 20 horsepower less then the v8. You also get better gas mileage so you don't have to stop for fuel every 4 hours on trips. Also it has this great interior. "Don't believe me, go take it for a spin."
Person 1: "No, sorry. It doesn't have a v8. It's not good enough for me."
goes to foreign dealer. Dealer says, "I don't have one here but if you pay for it I'll get you a v8 car." Person 1 agrees and buys car A.
Type of person 2: Goes to dealerships and says I need a car that is FAST. Foreign dealer says I got a v8. It is awesome. I don't have one here but if you buy it I can get it to you. Here is a brochure. Person 2 says he is going to look at this other car. He goes to the domestic dealership and they show him right to the car. He gets in it. "Man this leather interior is nice. Oh it looks like it gets a little more MPG too. Can I drive it?" Sure! Person 2 goes tearing around town. Damn this thing is FAST! Dealer says, "it sure is. Best part you can have this one right now, if you ever have any problems just stop by and we'll get you fixed right up." Person 2 buys car B not really caring about the number stuff but more about his experience with it.
So ask yourself. Are you Type of person 1 or 2? And just in case some one is real slow Car A=nexus one. Car B=Incredible. Person 1=people who are basing a decision on a number. Person 2=people who base decisions on real world application...aka the sane ones. haha
While I see what you are getting @ I think your a little off. I would say people are trying to get the most bang for their buck. I know personally when I buy anything .... be it a computer or whatever .. I'm trying to get the most mileage I can get out of it. I think buying a phone that you may be stuck with for 2 years is no different. I know personally I'm going for the biggest and baddest monster they let out of the gate: Nexus, Incredible, or yet to be named. In any event, my point is this isn't a two type of people situation. There's a lot of grey area here and we still don't know how much either will cost or what type of plan we'll be stuck with. Just my opinion.
Hello all.... Been a lurker for about as long as this thread has been active, and with all that's transpired with NKT's revelations today thought I might throw out a question. I'm not very well versed in the technology of mobile phones, but in reading up on the snapdragon had a thought-- if the 8650 supports GSM and CDMA what is keeping this phone from being a "world phone"?
From my understanding the processor controls all the radio function, and an antennae is an antennae- as long as you can access the frequencies processor-wise there shouldn't be much limitation to using them.
Do you need a SIM card, or can that information be integrated into the software/firmware as a unique identifier of each unit?
In my simplistic understanding- all a SIM card does is give a unique identifier to the individual phone on the network- it also gives you the option to use a GSM phone on different networks by replacing with a SIM for that provider.
Long story short- could Verizon activate GSM band communication like they did for the BB Tour for use internationally only without the SIM option so you would have to pay roaming charges to VZW for your airtime in other countries... Kind of a sucky second rate option, but at least the phone isn't a brick on international travel.
Other than that I guess you could depend on Wifi and Skype for intl calling...
Anybody know anything about limitations that I am missing? My guess is that i am missing something pretty huge or else google would have adopted this chip for the Nexus one- added a SIM slot and said "free for all- give us 530 smackaroos and you can take this badboy to any network anywhere- the processor has support for every provider the world over- pick the one that works best in your area..." Their "revolutionary" marketing scheme would have been much more revolutionary if they hadn't tied the phone to a single provider or technology by choosing a chip limited to GSM band.
Chances are the Verizon model of the N1 is using this chip, because I don't think there's another 1GHz CDMA Snapdragon chip available.
Edit: From a little research it seems the qsd8650 is the qsd8250 plus CDMA/EVDO capability so it's basically world phone compliant, and who knows what google has planned for the Verizon N1.
Last edited by woodraskam; March 12th, 2010 at 01:14 AM.
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Helicooper, that was an excellent, detailed automobile / phone analogy and I applaud you for it! However, that was one aspect that I had a pretty good grasp on already. Perhaps you, Nash, Woop, Woodraskam, or Ruben (the Sense Guru) could put together a similar, detailed, thorough analogy regarding the difference between stock Android and Sense UI. To me, being brand new to Android AND smartphones as a whole, that's the one I am having the most difficult time getting my mind around. Much thanks in advance!!!
person a gets a table, it is a good sturdy table, but table interface is bland.
person b gets a table and puts a vase full of flowers on top of it. this has all the same functionality of the table, but it is just more pleasing to use. the downside is the vase takes up some of the tables space.
The problem with that is- it's still slated as a "Verizon phone"... Why isn't there an option for a truly unlocked phone that can be used on any network anywhere?
It's like Ma Bell before anti-trust... they owned the phones and the network- afterwards you bought your own phones and you started to see more options and lower prices for those options due to true market competition. ATT, Verizon, TMo, etc all do the same things now, and it keeps the consumers from having access to products because they are getting the best coverage with a given provider.
What we all want is the option to choose the phone we want- incredible, desire, n1, iphone, dumbphone, etc. Why aren't companies like HTC, Google, Apple... selling their own phones unattached to providers that have the capability to work with any provider... Off topic somewhat, but a little valid in terms of current discussion of the snapdragon processors.
I mean - I have heard so much about how wonderful Sense UI is, but.... what are the benefits to the features??
I have yet to own an Android phone, but one positive of Sense that I've heard of is Full Microsoft Exchange functionality....I believe stock doesn't provide calendar syncing.
I've also heard of some problems running Google Voice with Sense's previous versions, so hopefully that will get fixed in 2.1
Last edited by woodraskam; March 12th, 2010 at 01:19 AM.
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I have yet to own an Android phone, but one positive of Sense that I've heard of is Full Microsoft Exchange functionality....I believe stock doesn't provide calendar syncing.
I've also heard of some problems running Google Voice with Sense's previous versions, so hopefully that will get fixed in 2.1
I have yet to own an Android phone, but one positive of Sense that I've heard of is Full Microsoft Exchange functionality....I believe stock doesn't provide calendar syncing.
I've also heard of some problems running Google Voice with Sense's previous versions, so hopefully that will get fixed in 2.1
100% correct on this. GV keeps FCing on me with android 1.5. it works OK not great just ok. every time i boot up it gives me a GV must FC because of yadda yadda yadda.
Hello all.... Been a lurker for about as long as this thread has been active, and with all that's transpired with NKT's revelations today thought I might throw out a question. I'm not very well versed in the technology of mobile phones, but in reading up on the snapdragon had a thought-- if the 8650 supports GSM and CDMA what is keeping this phone from being a "world phone"?
From my understanding the processor controls all the radio function, and an antennae is an antennae- as long as you can access the frequencies processor-wise there shouldn't be much limitation to using them.
Do you need a SIM card, or can that information be integrated into the software/firmware as a unique identifier of each unit?
In my simplistic understanding- all a SIM card does is give a unique identifier to the individual phone on the network- it also gives you the option to use a GSM phone on different networks by replacing with a SIM for that provider.
Long story short- could Verizon activate GSM band communication like they did for the BB Tour for use internationally only without the SIM option so you would have to pay roaming charges to VZW for your airtime in other countries... Kind of a sucky second rate option, but at least the phone isn't a brick on international travel.
Other than that I guess you could depend on Wifi and Skype for intl calling...
Anybody know anything about limitations that I am missing? My guess is that i am missing something pretty huge or else google would have adopted this chip for the Nexus one- added a SIM slot and said "free for all- give us 530 smackaroos and you can take this badboy to any network anywhere- the processor has support for every provider the world over- pick the one that works best in your area..." Their "revolutionary" marketing scheme would have been much more revolutionary if they hadn't tied the phone to a single provider or technology by choosing a chip limited to GSM band.
Keep in mind you can unlock a BB Storm 1(probably others too but I only have firsthand experience with the Storm 1) and use an AT&T or T-Mobile SIM card in it. Seeing as AT&T is getting a N1(in the form of the Desire), and T-Mobile already has it, makes you wonder why Verizon would omit this for international use since there really is no point to omitting it for domestic use.
The problem with that is- it's still slated as a "Verizon phone"... Why isn't there an option for a truly unlocked phone that can be used on any network anywhere?
It's like Ma Bell before anti-trust... they owned the phones and the network- afterwards you bought your own phones and you started to see more options and lower prices for those options due to true market competition. ATT, Verizon, TMo, etc all do the same things now, and it keeps the consumers from having access to products because they are getting the best coverage with a given provider.
What we all want is the option to choose the phone we want- incredible, desire, n1, iphone, dumbphone, etc. Why aren't companies like HTC, Google, Apple... selling their own phones unattached to providers that have the capability to work with any provider... Off topic somewhat, but a little valid in terms of current discussion of the snapdragon processors.
The reason they don't do this is because they alienate the carriers as far as subsidies on phones. If HTC made Phone A and it worked on Verizon, Sprint, AT&T, T-Mobile and others then what motivation would Verizon have for paying HTC a subsidy on the phone to sell it to their subscribers? They wouldn't.
That and they would have a harder time attracting subscribers because people would be forced to pay full price on phones. The solution is the opposite like what Europe does. You want a Desire, its free. You pay a higher monthly cost though and you end up paying them back for the phone. Sounds good to me.
person a gets a table, it is a good sturdy table, but table interface is bland.
person b gets a table and puts a vase full of flowers on top of it. this has all the same functionality of the table, but it is just more pleasing to use. the downside is the vase takes up some of the tables space.
What if person A is male and prefers the simplicity and the fact that the table does what it is supposed to, hold stuff.
What if person B is female and thinks the table needs some "sprucing up"(no offense to Oak or Mahogany tables)?
Do you like flowers on your table? I don't like flowers on mine. I prefer a plate with some food on it and a beverage.
Plus WTF flowers take up so much space that the table's surface area is noticeably reduced and you then can't put some "thing" on it because of the missing area. Be it food, beverage, tv remote, htc incredible, laptop with androidforums.com open in the browser, utensils, napkins, etc.
If the flowers take up that much space, buy a bigger table!
The MSM-series needed to be kicked to the grave a while ago. Now I must endure with this inferior processor until the Incredible comes out. FML!!!
Yeah, the MSM7600 in my TP2 (along with the resistive screen, which isn't bad but...still resistive) is the reason I want the Incredible. And since I'm due for an upgrade as of 2 weeks ago, I can't wait. Though I can't really blame Qualcomm for the MSM's. They're not THAT bad, but WinMo makes them really look terrible. They generally run Android fine (hell the G1 was originally a 528MHz MSM7200 clocked down to 384MHz, and it ran fine).
That and they would have a harder time attracting subscribers because people would be forced to pay full price on phones. The solution is the opposite like what Europe does. You want a Desire, its free. You pay a higher monthly cost though and you end up paying them back for the phone. Sounds good to me.
I agree except you end up paying for the phone like 3-4 times over the course of 2 years
That's my point- why aren't these phones sold by the manufacturers unlocked for use on any network. With NKT's report that there is no SIM slot in the Incredible- I just started thinking and searching for any answers- and there aren't any that I could find. A bunch of explanations on the differences between GSM and CDMA, but nothing conclusive as to why (since the technology has existed for a number of years) there aren't a ton of true world phones on the market. It stands to reason that an open source system like Android might finally open the market to some awesome phones for all of us- but so far it's the same song and dance.
I can't wrap my head around the idea that technologies as advanced as the current slate of smart phones are being used as pawns in an advertising game to sell a service. It would be great to choose mobile service based on quality of coverage and not based on the number of cool phones a service provider sells. It would be even better to choose a phone based on the specs and design rather than choosing between limited offerings of a single provider because you are tied to them based on service.
I want my cake, and I want to eat it too. That said- the Incredible is coming to Verizon so I can't b*t*h too much.
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I'm gonna try to kick this back on topic..
So the fellas at AndroidandMe have re-updated their story that they got from us regarding the Incredible, and have now included a screenshot of the supposed "6 GB ROM"
Quote:
Update 2: The original iPhone shipped with 4/8 GB of internal memory, but the second an Android phone has that kind of storage everyone goes crazy and instantly tries to discredit it. I don’t know how much internal phone storage the Incredible will ship with, but I do know that Android phones need more than the 512 MB ROM we normally get.
Android hacker Stericson tweeted the following screen grab he claims came from the Incredible. It shows a device that has an internal storage greater than 6 GB and memory around 1 GB. These figures are close to the numbers I was emailed earlier, so I will let you guys decide what to believe. I don’t think it is out of the question for an upcoming Android phone to have 1, 8, 16, or 32 GB of internal storage.
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Even if this phone stays at 768MHz, I'd bet the software is optomized for it, and Incredible will kick serious ass! NKT ran it side by side with the N1 and said both were faster than the Droid, and both were equally as fast as one another. Not bad at all considering that Incredible was running Sense UI and N1 was just running plane old Android 2.1!
