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Old May 18th, 2011, 02:34 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Is 4GB enough?

I was browsing some other phones today and found that most newer Smartphones tend to have more than 4gb Internal Memory. (Is Internal Memory what they call "ROM"?)

I know you can use the 8gb SD that's included to keep movies, pictures, and music on. I also know that it supports up to 32gb SD Cards too but you can't put some items on the SD Card, right?

So is 4gb Internal Memory enough for a modern Smartphone?
How many GB out of that 4gb is reserved for Applications?

My last question is, does anyone know if the Evo3D's 1gb of RAM is DDR2 memory? I can't find any confirmation on the issue either way.

Thank you.

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Old May 18th, 2011, 02:39 PM   #2 (permalink)
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As I mentioned before - that's plenty of memory if an Android smartphone, as not all smartphone operating systems lay out app memory requirements the same way.

Mr. Ed, super-helpful Evo poster in our forums, remarked he had some 400 apps on his Evo, and the Evo only has 1 GB (and yes, that's the rom).

As for ram - not sure.
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Old May 18th, 2011, 02:42 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Thank you sir!

I'll keep looking about the DDR2 thing... Somebody somewhere has to know...
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Old May 18th, 2011, 02:45 PM   #4 (permalink)
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yea internal memory is where your ROM is stored. I think the evo 3d will come with a 1gb internal memory. The original evo came with 512mb so 1gb will be double that. Should be more than enough space to store your apps. Most of your apps will be stored on your memory card anyways. Now as your memory card. that will depend on how much music, photo's and video's you want to carry on your phone.
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Old May 18th, 2011, 02:46 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Thank you sir!

I'll keep looking about the DDR2 thing... Somebody somewhere has to know...

i thought ddr2 was a memory stick made for desktops.
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Old May 18th, 2011, 02:49 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Um... why DDR2 (if you don't my asking)?
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Old May 18th, 2011, 02:54 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EarlyMon View Post
Um... why DDR2 (if you don't my asking)?
I was wondering the same thing. DDR3 is the newest thing, but I think a specialized form of SODIMM RAM would be more likely in a smartphone than DDR2. But hey, if that's what it comes with, I won't complain.
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Old May 18th, 2011, 03:01 PM   #8 (permalink)
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yea internal memory is where your ROM is stored. I think the evo 3d will come with a 1gb internal memory. The original evo came with 512mb so 1gb will be double that.
4 GB on 3vo - HTC Mobile Phones - EVO 3D (Sprint)

1 GB on Evo - HTC Mobile Phones - EVO Sprint - Overview

Note, Sprint specs only.
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Old May 18th, 2011, 03:06 PM   #9 (permalink)
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AHHH thank you, thank you! Very helpful information thus far. Sorry, I know these are stupid questions probably. I've been a webOS owner unfortunately for the past 18 months and they code and do things differently. It's hard to understand a new OS until you get it in your hands. So a lot of these simple questions are big question marks in my mind.

DDR2 is just a faster way to process and access the RAM. For instance, 512mb of DDR2 might actually run your electronic device faster than 1gb of non-DDR memory. DDR3 runs fairly hot so I doubt they would put DDR3 into a Smartphone until the technology advances.

I build my own computers when the time comes to upgrade them; So things like the type of memory devices run intrigues me. I know of another Smartphone that runs DDR2; So my next logical thought was to try to find out what type the Evo3D runs.
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Old May 18th, 2011, 03:12 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by ArmageddonX View Post
AHHH thank you, thank you! Very helpful information thus far. Sorry, I know these are stupid questions probably.

DDR2 is just a faster way to process and access the RAM. For instance, 512mb of DDR2 might actually run your electronic device faster than 1gb of non-DDR memory.
Yeah - DDR2 is twice as fast as DDR. Has to be, it has higher latency. No such thing as a free lunch.

Outlaw.71 said it best - no one is going to make that one perfect phone with every chip and parameter free of compromise. It would price them right out of the market.

Betcha dollars to doughnuts all of the handset manufacturers the world over have young R&D guys pulling their hair out over how if they'd only changed this... or that...

Truth is, we get what the supply chain can support within the price points dictated by marketing, then R&D backfills to meet targets. In my opinion.

And don't sweat the questions!
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Old May 18th, 2011, 03:16 PM   #11 (permalink)
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More geebee's is always better.
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Old May 18th, 2011, 03:34 PM   #12 (permalink)
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The Samsung Galaxy S used DDR2 but it's not as simple stacking and comparing as you may think - these aren't PCs.

Note this article:

The obsessions of an electronics freak: Mystery (probably) solved; how Samsung pulls off its GPU magic.

Also note that the newer Snapdragons have some form of eDRAM - a capacitive RAM embedded in the SoC.

I saw your comparison in the Android Lounge on the SGS2 and 3vo w.r.t. memory - not sure you're going to go down the path you want and draw meaningful conclusions, so just be sure to research this carefully.

DDR2 <> LPDDR2

I can say that any buzzwords they can throw out on cellphones, they will throw out on cellphones.
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Old May 18th, 2011, 05:53 PM   #13 (permalink)
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As I noted in a different thread, the HTC Sensation also has 4gb of rom, but only 1gb is user accessible for app storage. This is apparently due to the increased size of the new version of sense. While I don't foresee us getting any kind of confirmation on this until someone has the evo 3d in hand, I think it's something to keep an eye on.
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Old May 18th, 2011, 06:09 PM   #14 (permalink)
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That's still a lot for just apps, tho.
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Old May 18th, 2011, 06:20 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I just found confirmation it's DDR1 RAM.
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Old May 18th, 2011, 06:27 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EarlyMon View Post
As I mentioned before - that's plenty of memory if an Android smartphone, as not all smartphone operating systems lay out app memory requirements the same way.

Mr. Ed, super-helpful Evo poster in our forums, remarked he had some 400 apps on his Evo, and the Evo only has 1 GB (and yes, that's the rom).

As for ram - not sure.
I don't know if that would hold true for non-rooted phones. I have less than 100 now because of lack of internal storage for apps. Apps-to-sd didn't help enough for some of my apps that couldn't be transferred to SD. And it also didn't help when Sprint added new bloatware to the last update. And there are some apps, that when you transfer to SD, can't make use of the widgets...then, when you try transferring it back to the phone, the widgets are still unavailable, so you have to re-install in order to get the widgets.

All that said, I do believe that 4GB of internal storage should be enough, provided that Sprint doesn't take up 3/4 of that (like the EVO) w/ bloatware add-ons.
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Old May 18th, 2011, 06:45 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I just found confirmation it's DDR1 RAM.
Source, please?
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Old May 18th, 2011, 06:46 PM   #18 (permalink)
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If there is an entire gb dedicated to app storage it should be more than enough. The evo 4g only ended up with around 500mb (complete guess) after bloatware and os storage. Even though I'll probly never need more than 1gb, I refuse to think reasonably when it comes to my irrational need for better specs. Of course I may be jumping the gun and the memory allotment may be different than than sensation..
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Old May 18th, 2011, 06:52 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
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As I noted in a different thread, the HTC Sensation also has 4gb of rom, but only 1gb is user accessible for app storage. This is apparently due to the increased size of the new version of sense. While I don't foresee us getting any kind of confirmation on this until someone has the evo 3d in hand, I think it's something to keep an eye on.
Well how big was that system dump for the Evo 3D? That should give us an idea how much space will be used up.
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Old May 18th, 2011, 07:00 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Source, please?
"Industry first 1gb Industry first dual channel 1gig DDRRAM"

EVO 3D Full Disclosure | The Bitbag

The list has some other interesting items on it that I have been looking into. It was written by a person who was at CTIA I think.

Is this a parody post? 10MP camera? Night-Vision? I'm having a hard time believing a few of these.
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Old May 18th, 2011, 07:02 PM   #21 (permalink)
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lol @ bsod quote.
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Old May 18th, 2011, 07:02 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Source, please?
Ah - I googled it -- "dual channel LP DDR" was in the blogs around CTIA.

K.

Mobile DDR - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

DDR2 SDRAM - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Note that just specifying DDR2 does not mean superior performance.

Note also that blogs rarely get this sort of thing right.

Dual-channel architecture - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

DDR and dual channel kinda don't mix AFAIK.
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Old May 18th, 2011, 07:05 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArmageddonX View Post
"Industry first 1gb Industry first dual channel 1gig DDRRAM"

EVO 3D Full Disclosure | The Bitbag

The list has some other interesting items on it that I have been looking into. It was written by a person who was at CTIA I think.

Is this a parody post? 10MP camera? Night-Vision? I'm having a hard time believing a few of these.
Yeah - that's taken from a post in this forum by someone (BlueScreen aka BSOD) whose credibility is not looking tip-top to most of us.

So - bottom line - none of these makers are going to tell the whole truth, their tricks for mobile devices are largely proprietary.

See also -

eDRAM - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Expect that, imo.
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Old May 18th, 2011, 07:11 PM   #24 (permalink)
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My apologies if I messed something up. As you know I'm still trying to get on my feet with all the Android stuff. I'm getting better though! (I hope)
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Old May 18th, 2011, 07:17 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Please stop apologizing before you give us complexes! We're just interested users like you!

I think you're asking the right questions - I just don't know if the answers will make sense in this crazy business!
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Old May 18th, 2011, 07:25 PM   #26 (permalink)
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LoL... Ok, ok... I'll try. I do sorta have a complex though

Thank you.
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Old May 18th, 2011, 07:36 PM   #27 (permalink)
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And per the link I posted in your thread from Qualcomm - it's LPDDR2, same as SGS2.
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Old May 19th, 2011, 09:54 AM   #28 (permalink)
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4GB of internal storage will be enough. There's an app called DiskUsage that will tell you how much you have available and what you're taking up for apps. On my DX, bloat and some system apks were listed, too. I used 383 MB of what looks like appox 2.5 GB free.

Here's a screenie of how it looks. If you're space conscious, I'd recommend it. After I saw this, I stopped moving apps to SD card and forced all apps on my SD card back to phone. I just got lazy and didn't uninstall this app.

snap20110519_104449.jpg
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Old May 19th, 2011, 12:24 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EarlyMon View Post
4 GB on 3vo - HTC Mobile Phones - EVO 3D (Sprint)

1 GB on Evo - HTC Mobile Phones - EVO Sprint - Overview

Note, Sprint specs only.
I was going to say something like that as well. Using just CM7 on the device, it appears the Android OS takes up more than half of that 1gb of memory the EVO has, leaving me with 450mb or so for apps. I can't remember what is was with Sense and all of the stock stuff on it, but it was somewhere around 200mb free (anyone like to confirm this).

Even though 1gb is a huge improvement compared to what the EVO had to offer, I still find it "disturbing" that the UI and OS use 75% of the ROM on a device that has 4gb of space...Assuming the OS takes 500mb, that puts Sense (and maybe other added bloatware) at 2.5gb over the current 2-300mb...I just don't see how there can be that many improvements with the UI to constitute that much space, but I'm also not a programmer either so I don't know every little thing that goes on behind the scenes with this.
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Old May 19th, 2011, 12:28 PM   #30 (permalink)
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It may or may not - you'll need to check out your file allocations. You'll probably find you've got a sizable chunk set aside for data.
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Old June 17th, 2011, 11:31 AM   #31 (permalink)
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Slightly off topic, but why the hedoubletoothpics can't most google apps be moved to SD?
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Old June 17th, 2011, 11:57 AM   #32 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Slightly off topic, but why the hedoubletoothpics can't most google apps be moved to SD?
1. You're allowed to say that word. Just don't swear just to swear. I.e.
"Damn, I'm excited for this phone!" - acceptable
"I'm so _____ing stoked for this _______ing ____ beast of a _____ phone! ____!" - overkill
2. I'm actually not sure as to why Google apps aren't able to be moved to SD. I've never really messed with moving stuff between my phone and my SD card. Never found the need, but I have found the need to upgrade this slow POS.
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Old June 17th, 2011, 08:42 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Quote:
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1. You're allowed to say that word. Just don't swear just to swear. I.e.
"Damn, I'm excited for this phone!" - acceptable
"I'm so _____ing stoked for this _______ing ____ beast of a _____ phone! ____!" - overkill
2. I'm actually not sure as to why Google apps aren't able to be moved to SD. I've never really messed with moving stuff between my phone and my SD card. Never found the need, but I have found the need to upgrade this slow POS.
I'm pretty sure Google and carrier apps can't be moved because then if you take out the SD, you could cripple the entire app (or at least some function of it). Google doesn't want user stupidity to cause people to think their product is inferior, and carriers thought they were important enough to include (and not let you remove), so they aren't going to let you move them for similar reasons.
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Old June 17th, 2011, 09:12 PM   #34 (permalink)
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^Pretty smart.
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Old June 18th, 2011, 08:56 AM   #35 (permalink)
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Also, the vast majority of SD cards are slower than then internal flash storages of the phone. Imagine trying to run maps from SD, for example. If you could put parts of the OS on the SD card, you would be slowing down the OS in some ways. Then people would complain that the OS is laggy. et cetera
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Old June 18th, 2011, 02:09 PM   #36 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
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Also, the vast majority of SD cards are slower than then internal flash storages of the phone. Imagine trying to run maps from SD, for example. If you could put parts of the OS on the SD card, you would be slowing down the OS in some ways. Then people would complain that the OS is laggy. et cetera
That's not lagging, that would be considered loading.
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Old June 18th, 2011, 04:01 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Right, but in the circumstance of the typical user, it would probably be called lag
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Old June 18th, 2011, 04:27 PM   #38 (permalink)
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OK, so I got the answer on the SGS2 memory layout from Slug, a proud new owner.

The additional partition on that 16GB internal storage he has: it's /sdcard - and the physical SD card is accessed as /sdcard/external.

I'll see how the SGS2 partitioning stacks up, post in a relevant thread if I find anything - probably the one comparing the 3 dual core phones.

In any case - the idea that phones with arbitrarily large internal memory is there to use however - not true so much.
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Old June 18th, 2011, 06:29 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Right, but in the circumstance of the typical user, it would probably be called lag
Agreed. My niece said the same thing of her music and pics not coming up as fast as she liked and blamed it on lag on her Inspire. I gave her my 16GB class 10 and she said there was very little hesitation any more and told her that it wasn't lag, just a bottleneck.
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Old June 18th, 2011, 06:32 PM   #40 (permalink)
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In any case - the idea that phones with arbitrarily large internal memory is there to use however - not true so much.
If only Ah well. The 1GB available to me with a 32GB class ten uSD is good enough for me till they start making standards for class 10 64GB and above.
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Old June 22nd, 2011, 06:56 PM   #41 (permalink)
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Ok so how do we verify the 4GB of ROM?

Running DiskUseage it appears my ROM capacity is only 1175 MB. I hope I'm just viewing this incorrectly.
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Old June 22nd, 2011, 06:59 PM   #42 (permalink)
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Ok so how do we verify the 4GB of ROM?

Running DiskUseage it appears my ROM capacity is only 1175 MB. I hope I'm just viewing this incorrectly.
You're viewing a single partition. I'm unfamiliar with that tool, but look to see if you can get reports for multiple partitions. Even then, they won't add up to 4 GB, some things the tools can't see.
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Old June 22nd, 2011, 07:03 PM   #43 (permalink)
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This program breaks it down to
App Storage 1175 MB
/mnt/sdcard 7572 MB
/vendor/firmware/misc 199 MB

So my thoughts are no matter how they partitioned the "drive" only 1.1 GB is for storing apps. Still a lot, though.
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Old June 22nd, 2011, 07:19 PM   #44 (permalink)
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This program breaks it down to
App Storage 1175 MB
/mnt/sdcard 7572 MB
/vendor/firmware/misc 199 MB

So my thoughts are no matter how they partitioned the "drive" only 1.1 GB is for storing apps. Still a lot, though.
And that matches our expectation of 1 GB for apps from before.
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Old June 22nd, 2011, 10:22 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Has anyone checked the internal memory yet? I don't see 4GB?
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Old June 23rd, 2011, 07:10 AM   #46 (permalink)
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Has anyone checked the internal memory yet? I don't see 4GB?
The tool you're using is only showing a single partition.

Please see - Is 4GB enough?

Partitioning info here - HTC EVO 3D: Full specs for TECHIES & DUMMIES!
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Old June 29th, 2011, 11:43 AM   #47 (permalink)
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I thought this phone had 4gb of internal storage? I have 1gb, does the os and pre-installed apps really take up 3gb of space?
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Old June 29th, 2011, 11:51 AM   #48 (permalink)
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I thought this phone had 4gb of internal storage? I have 1gb, does the os and pre-installed apps really take up 3gb of space?
4 gb yes, 1 gb for apps. the rest of space is for the 3d and sense 3.0
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Old June 29th, 2011, 11:52 AM   #49 (permalink)
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1.1 GB is reserved for apps (including Sprint/HTC installed apps). 1.1 GB is apparently available, somewhere (according to AndroXplorer), and the rest is system/OS.

I haven't found where this 1.1 GB that is just available, somewhere...
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Old June 29th, 2011, 12:07 PM   #50 (permalink)
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1.1 GB is reserved for apps (including Sprint/HTC installed apps). 1.1 GB is apparently available, somewhere (according to AndroXplorer), and the rest is system/OS.

I haven't found where this 1.1 GB that is just available, somewhere...
Wow that's crazy, thanks
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