So, my question is, where is this mythical 1GB of RAM that's supposed to be in this phone?
In Quick Settings from the Notification Bar, it reads "Total Memory: 803MB", with over half of that memory being used permanently, with no way of freeing it up.
Then, if you go Settings>Applications>Running Services, it shows, at most around 750MB or RAM either being used or available.
I know the OS and HTC skin use a good amount, but I'd really like to be able to see where all my RAM is going off to, and why I'm nearly running out when I don't even have much, if anything going right from the start? Give me my "1024MB of RAM" and then show me all the processes and how to free it up.
I've cleared the cache, and it did squat for freeing up RAM.
Do I need to pick up a third party app just so I can properly monitor the RAM usage?
Last edited by marctronixx; June 26th, 2011 at 08:24 AM.
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No. You do not need to install more apps to find your missing ram. It's not mythical, it's there.
Some of it is simply being used for mapped I/O ports and graphics in a way that application-level tools cannot report. In the same way - and for the same reason - that you can't see a lot of details about your radio firmware.
This situation is by no means unique to this phone, it's quite common. YOU are using that ram yourself by just using the phone.
And I'm guessing you're fairly new to Android.
You don't need to manage your apps yourself in attempts to free ram - let Android do that for you. Constant task killing ideas and ram freeing techniques are snake oil and like a drug for Android - the more you do that, the more you need to do that.
Unlike an iPhone, BB, or Winphone - Android is already designed to do quite well what you think you're looking to do - and it's significantly improved in Gingerbread.
When you exit an app, but it still shows in your task list, it's sleeping - Android has swapped most all of it out already. Left alone, when resources are required, Android will terminate the remnants.
Apps in Android are small and compact because they don't carry their own redundant baggage around - they rely on underlying services that you cannot access with task managers. Constantly fiddling with task management yourself means you're simply chewing up memory and processing resources because user task management tends to go in and munch on the running control process in a bad way.
Use the built in application manager when you find you have an app that's misbehaving. (Sometimes that's a fluke, usually it's a bad app and ought be removed until fixed.)
I'm not really out of it, but just after using the browser, maps, and Music Beta, the phone (via Notifications Bar) has me down to 91MB of free RAM. Just seems really low when not much is going on with the phone.
I remember when I had my Treo, I would have to be constantly restarting the phone just to free up RAM. I understand OSs have come a long way since then, but it is still a little disconcerting.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emblazon
I'm not really out of it, but just after using the browser, maps, and Music Beta, the phone (via Notifications Bar) has me down to 91MB of free RAM. Just seems really low when not much is going on with the phone.
I remember when I had my Treo, I would have to be constantly restarting the phone just to free up RAM. I understand OSs have come a long way since then, but it is still a little disconcerting.
is your phone rinning slow? is it freezing? if not, you are golden
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I'm not really out of it, but just after using the browser, maps, and Music Beta, the phone (via Notifications Bar) has me down to 91MB of free RAM. Just seems really low when not much is going on with the phone.
I remember when I had my Treo, I would have to be constantly restarting the phone just to free up RAM. I understand OSs have come a long way since then, but it is still a little disconcerting.
As you hit the low water marks (there are several on the way down in free ram) Android gets more aggressive in memory clean-up.
And fwiw - there seems to be little going on from your point of view, but under the hood, Android has already pre-loaded stuff based on the stuff you're using so that when you want those services they'll appear to be instantly available.
That all said - do keep an eye on the Music Beta and keep an eye out for updates. It's not the most stable app and needs improvement in how it manages its resources. Like all things Google, I'm expecting them to make rapid improvements there. That's the one I'd be keeping an eye on based on comments from mods and friends who have been profiling it.
Android seems new, but it's really just Linux + the Dalvik Virtual Machine (VM) + Java apps that run within the Dalvik engine. So - all of the maturity of Linux and Java are there - leaving the heavy lifting of Dalvik up to Google and the apps themselves to their own devs.
It's not a perfect OS, but it is pretty darned good.
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From a fresh boot, I'm listed at 453MB of the 803MB used. Doesn't that seem a little high? I would assume the other 200MB that isn't listed is the OS memory, yes?
That all said - do keep an eye on the Music Beta and keep an eye out for updates.
Kind of OT, but where do you check for updates? With most of Google's products, updates come automatically. Is there a spot on the phone that will show you all apps that have updates available? Thanks for the continued info.
From a fresh boot, I'm listed at 453MB of the 803MB used. Doesn't that seem a little high? I would assume the other 200MB that isn't listed is the OS memory, yes?
Not really OS memory per se, but a combination of a part of the OS memory and hardware device management. If you've ever used a PC whose BIOS is partially mapped to ram for faster performance or whose graphics card is sharing ram - it's essentially those things. In the phone's case, you have the whole set of phone chips instead of BIOS, but it's the same principle - memory locations are used to map some of the hardware I/O functions and memory sharing.
The actual memory being used by Android is on the small side - HTC Sense 3.0, on the other hand, is a huge resource user. Not surprising given the sophistication of the eye candy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emblazon
Kind of OT, but where do you check for updates? With most of Google's products, updates come automatically. Is there a spot on the phone that will show you all apps that have updates available? Thanks for the continued info.
(Courtesy of Pyrospoker) Check out the instructions over here for how to ensure you've got automatic updating turned on for apps you've added (including added for you, like Maps) - HTC Mobile Phone Support - HTC EVO? 3D (Sprint) - Help
I tend to visit the Market often - a least a few times a week - to ensure that everything's connected and that updates are really being considered. Just opening the Market and then hitting the Home button is sufficient for that.
PS - Don't sweat complaining - users helping users is way ok here (including complaints). I liked that you re-raised this question so much that I've added this thread to the forum guide.
Last edited by EarlyMon; June 25th, 2011 at 10:35 AM.
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You don't need to manage your apps yourself in attempts to free ram - let Android do that for you. Constant task killing ideas and ram freeing techniques are snake oil and like a drug for Android - the more you do that, the more you need to do that.
Unlike an iPhone, BB, or Winphone - Android is already designed to do quite well what you think you're looking to do - and it's significantly improved in Gingerbread.
When you exit an app, but it still shows in your task list, it's sleeping - Android has swapped most all of it out already. Left alone, when resources are required, Android will terminate the remnants.
I agree with this BUT...
On my EVO 4G I uninstalled all app killers etc and got much better battery life, so I agree.
BUT, then why does the EVO 3d come with a "Task Manager"? Why would killing tasks even be an option if we did not need it for some reason.
Now I'm conflicted again.
Basic android question: If I decide to run LauncherPro, does android know that HTC sense should not be given any RAM?
The old Sense on Eclair let you pre-select your launcher and you could be sure that everything was shut down. I'm not 100% sure that this newer one will ensure no memory is used.
Sense includes the launcher and all of the Sense apps that interconnect and launch each other.
SFAIK (and I hope others with LP will chime in and correct anything I'm about to maybe get wrong) - with just LP, the only process that ought not be running is Rosie. (I think.)
Lots of people do not like Sense - and have found the best option there is simply root(*) and install a non-Sense rom. That way, you've freed up rom as well as ended any doubt about your ram usage. In general, Sense is a heavyweight solution, so alternatives often tend to run more quickly.
At least one dev, flipz, already has a 3vo rom ready to release as soon as root is available. This is likely to be a well-supported phone by independent rom developers.
(*Note - I say simply root, but we're still waiting on root methods for this phone.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by nykbob
I agree with this BUT...
On my EVO 4G I uninstalled all app killers etc and got much better battery life, so I agree.
BUT, then why does the EVO 3d come with a "Task Manager"? Why would killing tasks even be an option if we did not need it for some reason.
Now I'm conflicted again.
That task manager (you can also get to it by displaying memory from the notifications pull-down, Quick Settings tab) is just HTC's idea of a safety net.
I would never use it.
If you're at the point of having things so hosed that you want to kill everything and start over, just do a long-press on the power button and select Restart - much as you would if your laptop got really wonky for some reason.
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i've been playing around with the built in task killer but can't figure out how to ignore the apps that i don't want killed,like launcher pro.is there a hidden option somewhere?? anybody know??
I know this is kind of long, but it will explain why you don't want to kill tasks:
I develop Android apps so I though I'd explain why a task killer isn't needed on an Android system.
Activities
Android apps use activites to preform tasks. For example, if you use a file manager to send a picture via email, the file manager calls the send activity within an email app, passes the file name to it and the email app sends the picture.. not the file manager. This will result in seeing the email app as "running" even though the user didn't actually launch that email app.
Smaller apps
Using activites helps developers design smaller apps. A file manager app that contains every bit of code needed to do everything a file manager does would likely be so large that no one would want to install it. Developers know that an android phone more than likely has an email app so there is no need for the developer to include email code in his/her file manager to send a picture when he/she can call an activity in an existing email app to do the job. This results in a smaller file manager app since there is no need to include email code or any other code for an activity that can be done via an app that is already present on the phone. This also alleviates redundant code. When you install an app outside of the android market, also known as sideloading, the file manager app calls the package installer (already present in Android) to install the requested app.
Running apps vs. cached apps
The "Manage Applications" list included in many android devices lists running apps as well as cached apps. Cached apps don't use any CPU or battery, they're cached so they will load faster the next time you need them. Killing cached apps results in those apps requiring more time to load the next time they are launched.
System management
By default, every android application runs in its own Linux process. Android starts the process when any of the application’s code (activities) needs to be executed, and shuts down the process when it’s no longer needed and system resources are required by other applications.
* Android is hard coded to automatically kill a task when more memory is needed.
* Android is hard coded to automatically kill a task when it’s done doing what it needs to do.
* Android is hard coded to automatically kill a task when you haven’t returned to it in a long time.
* Most services (while possibly running in the background) use very little memory when not actively doing something.
* A content provider is only doing something when there is a notification for it to give. Otherwise it uses very little memory.
* Killing a process when it isn’t ready only causes it to have to reload itself and start from scratch when it’s needed again.
* Because a task is likely running in the background for a reason, killing it will only cause it to re-spawn as soon as the activity that was using it looks for it again. And it will just have to start over again.
* Killing certain processes can have undesirable side effects. Not receiving text messages, alarms not going off, and force closes just to name a few.
* The only true way to prevent something from running at all on your phone would be to uninstall the .apk.
* Most applications will exit themselves if you get out of it by hitting “back” until it closes rather than hitting the “home” button. But even with hitting home, Android will eventually kill it once it’s been in the background for a while.
If you see an app running that you didn't launch, it's most likely because an activity within that app was called by another app to perform a task. If you kill the app you didn't launch, the system has to relaunch that app in order to complete its task, and you run the possibility of data corruption. This is why some people kill a task and then see it immediately running again. Constantly killing that app creates a situation where the user is battling the system resulting in wasted system resources.
Android is Linux
Android is not a Windows-based OS, it is based on Linux. Many of the apps you think are running aren't actually running, they're cached, this is typical with a Linux operating system and is much more efficient than other systems. Cached apps don't use any CPU or battery, they're cached and will load faster the next time they're needed.
Hi everyone, I'm a new Android user. Lovely set of forums you have here, hope I can contribute positively someday.
Anyways, I got the Evo 3D at launch morning, and my how things have changed in the three years I've had the original HTC Touch. Really digging the Android platform but i do have a new concern with task killing.
I see you all say it's a bad thing and will stop. However, I have done it a fair amount in the 2 days I've had my phone. I kept reading about bloatware and other things on how to maximize performance so I thought it would be a good idea to kill tasks. My phone is still quite speedy, my concern is just that you said it is bad for the OS the more you task kill. I couldn't have done any damage or anything in just 2 days, have I? Everything still seems to run fine. Any recommendations on things I can do to check or should I not worry?
Thanks for the help everyone. I just want to get the most out of my phone and learn about Android.
Thanks everyone.
Last edited by Chadwick5000; June 26th, 2011 at 02:14 AM.
Reason: Accidentally posted before finishing
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First off, great breakdown Ardchoille. I think this will help a lot of people and should be added to the guide sticky.
Welcome Chadwick, rest assure you have done no harm to your phone in these past two days. You say things are running fine and fast, so no worries. Just remember what you've read here and limit (or eliminate) your task killing, unless some of the aforementioned happens (mainly defective app). Other than that, play with it like it is the only toy you really wanted on Christmas. Btw this forum is going to be your best friend.
Last edited by hollawood24; June 26th, 2011 at 03:19 AM.
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Well then my work is done here, lol. Great job keeping up with these things Mon! If i didn't know any better i would think y'all are just as fast as my 3vo............... *shakes head* Nah
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Is it a bad idea to have a task killer from market along side the native task killer? I dont see any settings on the native task killer to kill tasks when I turn the screen off like there is on market task killers. Will they interfere with eachother?
Is it a bad idea to have a task killer from market along side the native task killer? I dont see any settings on the native task killer to kill tasks when I turn the screen off like there is on market task killers. Will they interfere with eachother?
Just read the thread about task killers in my sig.....
It took me a little bit to stop looking at the available memory and freaking out because it is low. I was used to the Windows methodology of Available memory being a count down until programs crash. In Android, it's more of a measure of system efficiency. The less available, the more apps that are pre-loaded and ready to go when you need them. If Android needs space, it'll make space. Which is why the phone hitches every so often when you load an app you haven't ran in a while. It's clearing some of the old ones out.
I'd not referenced this earlier because I didn't want to confuse new users to the 3vo as this is from the Evo forum - but it's just as valid today as when it was first posted:
I had a link in the FAQ that went to some article about why task killers should be avoided, but I think that gives a bit more information why and delivers the message a little better.
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Remember archoille is an Android dev, so I'd personally like to see this thread first, it's certainly first-hand info and without doubt, up-to-date, but it's your FAQ, do as think best.
Either way - this is in the forum guide and SirSlayer's thread is referenced. Can't get too much info out about task killing!
Automatic task killer from android market works very good with EVO 3D and i get about 14 hrs now before charge, before i used to get 8hrs and all my freinds allso get better battierry life now also.y
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Automatic task killer from android market works very good with EVO 3D and i get about 14 hrs now before charge, before i used to get 8hrs and all my freinds allso get better battierry life now also.y
Welcome to the forums!
It's a placebo, you have something mis-configured.
Please read this thread and its links.
ATK is the worst thing you could for your 3vo or any phone - friends don't let friends use it.
I'm getting over 50% battery left over after 16 hours of light-medium use - no task killing at all, no special tricks - just sensible configuration.
Nothing personal - but you're doing it wrong.
Last edited by EarlyMon; July 13th, 2011 at 02:49 PM.
Likely all ATK is doing is killing your apps that sync often. You can tell them to not sync often, or control when you sync manually with a widget (that HTC provides). One thing I've noticed with my 3vo is that it loves to sync and use background data. And it doesn't care if it uses 3G to do it, either.
I'm using none of the old Evo data/sync tricks, fwiw, and no power/config-controlling widgets. (I put the sync widget and shortcut on my desktop when I got this thing - have never used it - glad you mentioned it, I'm so used to seeing it on my desktop I didn't notice it was there. Two slots free - w00!)
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I'm using none of the old Evo data/sync tricks, fwiw, and no power/config-controlling widgets. (I put the sync widget and shortcut on my desktop when I got this thing - have never used it - glad you mentioned it, I'm so used to seeing it on my desktop I didn't notice it was there. Two slots free - w00!)
so where is this magic "sensible configuration" you talk about?
It's not magic, just decent practices per Gingerbread.
You are right - we do need a thread on it, but I've been waiting for most of the early return issues to die down.
I have 4G turned off when not in use. I don't use Gmail/push, I use the HTC Mail app and config my many email accounts (including Gmail) to poll at rates that make sense for my use. I've cleared out data on Gmail and set it to NOT sync email from Accounts & settings (and to not sync anything I don't actually use).
I do not let instant messaging apps auto-start and auto-login. That includes twitter, and apps like news-readers that want to take over.
I don't use the stock messaging app, I use Handcent and configure it so it's not wanting to be in my face at all times. (And power re-start after re-configing Handcent, that's a new bug I documented here.)
I don't let every app that can notify me when it can - I check settings in every app I get and pay close attention to that.
I turned off notifications in Google+ because I'll visit it when I please and get notifications from the main screen of the app.
~~~~~
I'm typical of a certain class of user - but not all. I don't need push mail, I don't need constant connection in social networking (those are the real hogs).
When I've downloaded bad apps that weren't that great and correlated to a drop in battery life, I've done a factory reset to clear out every vestige of them if an uninstall / power re-start didn't clear things up.
Otherwise, I've left the phone as-is.
If you're heavy into social networking, 3D gaming or lots of movie watching, expect your battery to drain more quickly.
If you're a heavy nav user, if you're using in a car, use a charger.
And whatever you do - pay close attention to the permissions you give on apps you install. You'd be surprised how many indicate that they might not let your device sleep (when competing apps may not have such an issue).
And I never use a task killer unless I'm trouble-shooting beta software. Otherwise, at the first sign of things being hosed, I do a power re-start and monitor if I've snagged a rogue app.
Otherwise - really, just common sense practices and common-sense expectations based on what I use the phone for.
Last edited by EarlyMon; July 13th, 2011 at 03:26 PM.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by outkast25
Is it a bad idea to have a task killer from market along side the native task killer? I dont see any settings on the native task killer to kill tasks when I turn the screen off like there is on market task killers. Will they interfere with eachother?
I use ATK over the standard task killer that comes with my phone. I think ATK is more efficient, has a do not kill list and will do auto-killing. ATK has really help me in performance and battery life.
We were all new to Android once. Sprint used to insist at many stores not letting you leave until ATK was installed and they even recommended on their support website.
Truth is if you go deeper you'll find ATK is using more power than it's saving you. We're all converts, and I hope you'll follow the links in this thread and join us!
Have to agree with the no task killer people. I have used them and used them smartly but the phone always ran better when left alone. The EVO 3D has the built in task manager which should be enough for anyone and really only needs to be used if an app is acting up. Guarantee that if you quite worrying about which apps are "running" in the background you won't really see a difference between using one and not using one.
Really the best thing you can do is just manage how many times your apps try and connect to something. Almost everything i have is auto refreshed except for GMail which I use with push.
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Not to hijack this (incredibly useful) thread, but as a rookie with Android, I have even more basic questions: Is the 1GB internal memory analogous to RAM on a PC for programs and data and is the 8GB microSDHC card analogous to an external drive?
If I am buying/downloading apps from the Market and I elect to save them to the SD card, does that provide any performance benefit for the phone? Also, if I use the BACK button to exit any app I use before returning to HOME or the APPLICATIONS list, am I freeing up memory that was in use?
NOTE: If all of this is clearly explained somewhere, just point me there. Thanks! Loving this EVO 3D, my first Android product.
This phone has 1 GB of ram, in addition to the internal storage, and the 8th GB sd card is exactly analogous to a hard drive - or - a USB stick.
The SD card and internal storage will perform so closely for load times that I doubt that you could see a difference. Everything executes in ram, regardless of where it started out from, so once loaded, all apps are the same and equal in that sense.
This phone has 1 GB of ram, in addition to the internal storage, and the 8th GB sd card is exactly analogous to a hard drive - or - a USB stick.
The SD card and internal storage will perform so closely for load times that I doubt that you could see a difference. Everything executes in ram, regardless of where it started out from, so once loaded, all apps are the same and equal in that sense.
Thanks for this (and your other very thorough) answer(s). In light of the negligible performance difference:
Is there a recommended place (internal vs. SD) for "frequently used" vs. "infrequently used" apps? Or, big vs. small?
Do I even need to be concerned with where apps and data are located?
Will having them one place vs. another make it easier to switch to the next Android phone?
No worries about where to put your apps on the sd card, that's handled automagically. There is a minor bug right now - apps on the sd card that you place a reference to on your desktop will lose their proper desktop icon but that should be fixed fairly soon, HTC knows all about it. They still work tho.
You can choose whether to put apps on the sd card or not for the most part, although some are restricted to only store internally - not lots tho.
No worries about phone replacements either. If you accepted the default setup to back up your phone to Google, then your apps will download automatically to your new phone. You can check that by desktop, menu settings, Privacy. And you'll find a record of your apps on the the Market on the web. If the auto stuff ever fails or gets buggy some day, you can go to the web Market and push your apps to your new phone from there. Apps you pay for associate with your Gmail id, and those are yours from phone to phone without needing to repurchase.
Last edited by EarlyMon; July 16th, 2011 at 09:30 AM.
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which one is right in telling you how much ram is available cause they both have different numbers. and there seems to be more you can stop in running services than in the task manager so wat giveS?
What gives is the ram report is appropriate and ram is being used by any app reporting it. No two will never agree - they can't.
To see why to stop task killing, read this thread.
Hope that helps.
ah ok. but lets say im playing a game and i press the home screen. its still running in the background right? or if i have the browser open with 3 tabs, dont both use battery even if they are not on?
Play something with your music app. Niw, while music playing change apos. Music still plays.
Now open some YouTube in your browser, while playing, switch to something else. It goes quiet instantly.
Both are using the same audio service to play sound. (Android is way like a PC and way not like other phone systems.)
First point is, programs use resources or not when viewing them or not by design specific to each apo. On that account, you can't just say they'll all behave X way.
Second part is easy and addressed above - most apps sleep when not in active use. Sleep means zero cpu use.
Your battery life will tie to three fundamental things for 99% of what's going on: processing, radio use, and display.
Android is most effective and efficient with processing use and knows more of what your phone needs in real time than a user with a task killer ever could.
Folks coming from other phone types are used to task killing. Don't bother with Android, it's already happening.
PS - try listening to a YouTube in a web window, then switch windows. See what happens - try the same task switching.
By the way, games using juice when in the background - bet you'll find they're configured to notify you when a bud elsewhere moves. Turn that off, watch battery lifetime increase.
Last edited by EarlyMon; July 18th, 2011 at 09:32 PM.
Is there an way to have certain apps exceptions so the native task killer leaves them running when I click kill all? For ex. My I want my widget locker to always be on and running. But when I kill all apps I want it to remain running and let task killer to kill everything else. Thx!
So I just got my HTC Evo, and noticed when I go into task manager that my Total memory is always being used up even though the only tasks are usually settings/people which take up 22 and 14 mb. It says I have used 663 MB with only 145 MB free. Why is it so low? What could be using up all of my total memory? Then, when I go to advanced options it tells me that 231 MB of RAM is being used out of 515 MB, which seems a lot better. Is there a difference between these two? And why is my total memory so low if I have only a few apps and am not running anything? Any help is appreciated.
Purely speculating, I assume the ram is taken up by Android/Sense. How the two (total memory/Ram) correlate, i havent the slightest. Either way, is the lack of memory space noticeable? Ive only once used my task manager, and that was just to force quit facebook. I dont ever really notice any lag or any other reason to use it. Just askin.
Sprint continues their EVO line of Android Phones with what is certainly a first for them - a 3D phone. The HTC EVO 3D boasts 3D technology on a beautiful 4.3-inch screen and get this: you don't even need glasses to enjoy the 3D experience!
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Memory and task management
I liked that you re-raised this question so much that I've added this thread to the forum guide.
.
