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Old June 30th, 2011, 09:48 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Question 3D Photo & Video Best Practices - Discussion

Hopefully this will be pinned.

I'd pretty much forgotten about the 3D camera on the phone. Yesterday I began playing around with it. I'm trying to find the best conditions for shooting photographs and video.

  • How much do the lighting conditions effect it? Do "auto" settings seem to handle this well?
  • The 3D seems to come across with varying levels of depth. Some things jump out, others seem very subtle yet clear and easier on the eyes. What distance is best for shooting if you want to get something to jump out? I believe this would be based upon numbers derived from the distance between cameras.
  • What subjects seem to make the best use of the 3D camera, both from a video and photo perspective?
  • This camera definitely adds to the possibilities of some new alternative techniques. What kinds of things should we try?
  • Editing the photos and videos. Are there any utilities for Gimp, Paint Shop Pro, or PhotoShop that can handle these formats? Download to PC, edit, upload back to the phone for viewing.
  • Sharing our photos. Is there a service or app that 3vo users can share our shots with other 3vo users?

Thanks for any insight. After experimenting last night, I'm a lot more interested in this feature and excited.

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Old June 30th, 2011, 10:36 AM   #2 (permalink)
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waiting for novox to jump in
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Old June 30th, 2011, 10:51 AM   #3 (permalink)
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How much do the lighting conditions effect it? Do "auto" settings seem to handle this well?
For image quality analysis in both bright and dim light, see this thread:
Picture quality analysis (2D)
All of my photos taken in that OP were set to "auto."

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The 3D seems to come across with varying levels of depth. Some things jump out, others seem very subtle yet clear and easier on the eyes. What distance is best for shooting if you want to get something to jump out? I believe this would be based upon numbers derived from the distance between cameras.
There's a rule of thumb in the world of stereoscopic photography called the 30 to 1 rule. Measure the distance between your camera lenses (known as the stereo base) and multiply that distance by 30. That's the ideal placement of your subject. The subject will appear to have depth (rather than look like a flat cardboard cutout) and it will be easy on the eyes. In an ideal setup, the stereo base can be modified depending on the size of your subject, and the distance you want it to be at so it fills your frame in the way that you want. Because the cameras are fixed position on the phone, we are somewhat limited.

I took some shots that demonstrated that the Evo 3D screen is capable of popout, but requires some skill to perceive it. that "skill" is not unlike the cross-eye and parallel viewing stereograms I posted here:
stereo photos (not from Evo 3D)
To achieve pop-out, the subject has to be closer than about 18 inches from the phone. It will appear doubled on the screen, but if you employ parallel viewing, you can merge the doubles, and it will appear to stick out of the screen. Try not to have the subject get cut off by the edge of the screen. This will make your brain freak out. See 3D "Pop-out" clarified and "violations" that lead to discomfort for more details.

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Originally Posted by Groty View Post
What subjects seem to make the best use of the 3D camera, both from a video and photo perspective?
I find that a scene with many subjects at slightly varying distance from the camera make the most impressive shots. And if you try to have these subjects as close to the 30 to 1 rule I mentioned above, they will look very nice.

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This camera definitely adds to the possibilities of some new alternative techniques. What kinds of things should we try?
Unfortunately, Sense doesn't give us a lot to work with. So as of right now, there's not a lot of stuff we can try except experiment with 3D composition. But like I said, without the ability to change the stereo base (distance between cameras), we're limited to subject distance and size. Here's a good brainstorm thread where we discussed what possibilities existed if software wasn't the limitation:
3D camera speculations: what new possibilities?

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Editing the photos and videos. Are there any utilities for Gimp, Paint Shop Pro, or PhotoShop that can handle these formats? Download to PC, edit, upload back to the phone for viewing.
I don't know the encoding the E3D uses for video. I would assume H.264. The container is mp4. So any tool that can handle this encoding and container would work. For pictures, the phone can save as .MPO or .JPS. The .JPS format is most compatible with existing editors. It's just a .JPG file with a renamed extension. Change the extension to .JPG and any photo viewer/editor can open it. You can therefore make your own 3D images by putting butting up left and right images, saving it as a JPG and then renaming the extension to JPS.

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Sharing our photos. Is there a service or app that 3vo users can share our shots with other 3vo users?
Not sure about this one. I'll let someone else field this question
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Old June 30th, 2011, 12:08 PM   #4 (permalink)
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So, by my quick measurements...

1.25 inches x 30 = 0.9525 meters


0.9525 meters = 3.12500 feet


So a little over 3 feet should be optimum distance. Let me know if anyone else's measurement between the lens is different from 1.25 inches.
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Old June 30th, 2011, 12:24 PM   #5 (permalink)
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can't we stick with just English units or metric? lol

Mine is 1.25 inches as well...

So 1.25in x 30 = 37.5in.

37.5in / 12in/ft = 3.125ft

Limitation of the parallax barrier puts the max near distance around 18 inches (the point where the parallax is so great that the barrier can't mask it for each eye properly). I found this distance out through experimentation. It may vary from person to person depending on the distance between your eyes.
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Old June 30th, 2011, 12:35 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Attached is a 3D photo I took of an outdoor table setting. Lots of objects of various distance, most about 3-4ft away from the camera. Note that the corner of the table is close to the camera, so if you look at that area, you might develop some eye strain.

You'll need to rename the attachment as .JPS since the forums didn't recognize .JPS as a valid image extension. Copy the renamed file to your phone's gallery to see it:

/sdcard/dcim/100MEDIA/

-edit-
attached a second picture where I'm closer to the subjects. You'll notice a lot more depth but also more eye strain for those who are sensitive to it.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg novox77-3D-test.jpg (931.0 KB, 36 views)
File Type: jpg novox77-3D-test2.jpg (896.6 KB, 30 views)
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Old June 30th, 2011, 12:54 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by novox77 View Post
It may vary from person to person depending on the distance between your eyes.







To be more on topic:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Groty View Post
  • Sharing our photos. Is there a service or app that 3vo users can share our shots with other 3vo users?
I was thinking about that the other night too. It would be cool to have an in house way that we here on the forum could share non-personal 3D content that is distributable (following copyright laws etc.). I can't say I would participate in sharing necessarily, but it seems like a good service and cool way that could help set this forum apart from others. Its probably not very feasible, I just get wacky ideas sometimes.
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Old June 30th, 2011, 01:05 PM   #8 (permalink)
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that was hilarious!
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Old June 30th, 2011, 01:11 PM   #9 (permalink)
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All,
i applaud the "technical" discussion on how to best take 3D photos.

the 'Vox (my nickname for novox) has really shined in this area and the foundation he has posted here is second to none for the new users to the 3D world.

That said, to answer the OPs question....

there is no "best" practice. 3D works by depth perception. you need as much light as you can on the frame you are wanting to get exposed to the imager.

In order to make the 3D gag work, 3 feet minimum (noted above) betwixt the imager (the handset) and your subject. THEN to get the subject to really stand out, make sure there are some objects in the background at least a few feet away. All in good light. if you have low light the gag will simply not work.

smoke over the 3D photos in the sample folder and look at the composition rather than whats being shot. LOW ISO (100) fast shutter will get you a crisp image.

but by all means, get out and just enjoy the world of 3D. the imager in this handset is really tiny so the resolution is just not there (again look at the 'Voxs' posts/threads on the imager-excellent reading) so do not expect groundbreaking photos.

3D--its a novelty at best right now. IF handset makers continue to add this to new handsets in the future, you can expect the tech to improve.
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Old June 30th, 2011, 01:19 PM   #10 (permalink)
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the 'Vox (my nickname for novox)
can I call you 'Tron?

yeah, in photography, there's the technical aspect, and there's the artistic. It's easy to teach the technical but hard to teach the artistic. The best way to learn is to look at lots of photos (in this case, 3D photos) and take lots of pictures. Analyze your shots and see if you can find patterns. What made this photo really nice? What made this other one really suck? And remember that the key to photography is lighting. Ultimately you're just capturing light. So if you want good pictures, you need good light, regardless of the camera.

Rule of thirds, leading lines, balance, and many basic compositional techniques will apply to 3D as well.
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Old June 30th, 2011, 01:23 PM   #11 (permalink)
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i don't know the encoding the e3d uses for video. I would assume h.264. The container is mp4. So any tool that can handle this encoding and container would work.
3vo-codecs.jpg

H.264 with stereo audio AAC, sampled at CD audio encoding rates. Pretty straightforward.

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  • Sharing our photos. Is there a service or app that 3vo users can share our shots with other 3vo users?
Picassa.

Share directly from gallery view.

I could be mistaken, but I seem to recall that working for yourfriendmat.
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Old August 15th, 2011, 08:31 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Default Shooting in 3D...tips?

Every time I use the 3D feature, I get a a slightly blurry double picture...sort of hologram like.

Any suggestions?
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Old August 15th, 2011, 08:52 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Try moving the phone around a bit until you find the "sweet" spot.. or when the image just appears to pop perfectly. Hold the phone still and try holding the button down half-way then oncethe box turns green press it the rest of the way down.
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Old August 15th, 2011, 10:38 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Every time I use the 3D feature, I get a a slightly blurry double picture...sort of hologram like.

Any suggestions?
Sometimes you just won't get a good 3D shot if certain conditions are right, like proper lighting...at least that's what I've found.
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Old August 15th, 2011, 11:30 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Every time I use the 3D feature, I get a a slightly blurry double picture...sort of hologram like.

Any suggestions?
If you're talking about taking pictures, you need to make sure your subject is at least 18 inches from the phone. Otherwise, you will get a double-image.

Actually, when you get the double image, you can still align them by focusing behind the screen. If you're successful, the subject will appear to pop out of the screen. But most people won't be able to see your image easily.

Subjects 18 inches and farther will require no effort by the eyes to merge the images. The parallax barrier will do that for you.
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Old August 15th, 2011, 07:30 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by novox77 View Post
There's a rule of thumb in the world of stereoscopic photography called the 30 to 1 rule. Measure the distance between your camera lenses (known as the stereo base) and multiply that distance by 30. That's the ideal placement of your subject. The subject will appear to have depth (rather than look like a flat cardboard cutout) and it will be easy on the eyes. In an ideal setup, the stereo base can be modified depending on the size of your subject, and the distance you want it to be at so it fills your frame in the way that you want. Because the cameras are fixed position on the phone, we are somewhat limited.
Stereo Base is often called the Interoccular Separation. And the rule is this: the “1/30 rule” (do not use 30 to 1 rule, it is confusing to some of us, although we likely know what you mean)

The rule says this: the stereo base should be equal to 1/30 the distance of the nearest object (B/I = 1/30).

I suggest that people interested in stereo images, take a look at the photographic sites where us old timers hang out. There is the "p3d" Yahoo group, Dr.Ts web site, and you might have a go at these:

http://www.dashwood3d.com/blog/beginners-guide-to-shooting-stereoscopic-3d/

http://www.berezin.com/3d/

http://www.stereoscopy.com/

To get you started.

I absolutely trust these sites and they will help. No offence to those gathered here, but it isn’t a cakewalk and I read sooooo much bad advice I am glad to point a few diehards in the proper direction.

Also Google terms like stereo photography, Stereo Realist, View master Personal, Steve Berezin and other such terms. You will find all sorts of useful info that applies to film stereo photographers but the general principals’ still stand.

Good 3D is not easy. You must have a great foreground and you must think in 3D, not regular photography. Ironically, many brilliant flat images also consider the 3D world in how they are composed.

As for modifying the Interoccular, you run the risk of miniaturizing or gigantism. Separate lenses too far, and you run the risk of everything looking like a miniature. There are also other oddities like pseudo stereo in which the left eye and right eye views are switched and your foregrounds recedes into the background and the background comes forward.

Not to worry because you can’t really change much that will affect your images because of the phone’s construction.

Very odd, just the same.

Bob
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Old August 16th, 2011, 01:45 AM   #17 (permalink)
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  • Sharing our photos. Is there a service or app that 3vo users can share our shots with other 3vo users?
.
I know only the one service to share 3d photos (phereo.com). Thay have a free android app for evo 3d. You can find it on market by keyword phereo.
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Old October 31st, 2011, 05:55 AM   #18 (permalink)
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By the way the new release 2.0 of Phereo 3d is available on android market!
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Old November 1st, 2011, 04:56 PM   #19 (permalink)
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I listed this in the "Must Have Apps" thread but I'll post it here seeing as 3D pictures are the topic...

You might want to get the app PHEREO. It's an app that allows you to upload and view all sorts of stereoscopic photos. All of the thumbnail images are in 2D, until you click on them and they open up to full view in stereoscopic mode. Some of them are absolutely stunning, while others are just candid shots. And they're catagorized too. I find myself going there daily to see what's been uploaded - which seems to be every couple of hours.

I don't remember how I came across the app, but I've used it daily for about a month now.
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Old November 16th, 2011, 05:23 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Hi, all.
I ask Phereo on there forum forum.phereo.com if they plan to make anaglyph mode in app. How do you think if this option will be useful?
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Old November 16th, 2011, 05:17 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Hi, all.
I ask Phereo on there forum forum.phereo.com if they plan to make anaglyph mode in app. How do you think if this option will be useful?
If I'm correct, most 3D smartphones operate on stereoscopic technology. So what would be the purpose of anaglyph images?
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Old November 16th, 2011, 05:26 PM   #22 (permalink)
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If I'm correct, most 3D smartphones operate on stereoscopic technology. So what would be the purpose of anaglyph images?
Stereoscopic is a term that applies to Holmes stereo, lenticular, shutter, anaglyphic, Vectograph, Xographs, Realist, and all the rest.

Anaglyph is a stereo method using red/green or blue/red viewers. Anaglyphs are stereoscopic.
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Old November 17th, 2011, 03:25 AM   #23 (permalink)
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If u think that anaglyph will be useful option for Phereo app then post this in there forum. I think that if there will be a lot of anaglyph or wiggle requests they will add this possibility in future releases.
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Old November 17th, 2011, 09:49 AM   #24 (permalink)
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I would see how anaglyph modes would help screens that do not have a 3D feature, but I'm confused why you would want anaglyph on a phone that has a native 3D screen?
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Old November 17th, 2011, 03:13 PM   #25 (permalink)
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I would see how anaglyph modes would help screens that do not have a 3D feature, but I'm confused why you would want anaglyph on a phone that has a native 3D screen?
You likely wouldn't. One would require the proper anaglyph glasses which gets away from the idea of a 3D screen in the first place. You would need software to convert the Evo 3D images to anaglyph.

Just easier to use the phone as designed. It is not a great 3D camera and you can't take certain kinds of stereoscopic images, but it works OK.
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Old November 18th, 2011, 01:02 AM   #26 (permalink)
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I don't plan to watch in anaglyph on my evo 3d, but I want to share 3d photos for others who haven't 3d in there andriod smart-phones. Phereo server can convert mpo and jps to anaglyph, so I think it can send anaglyph version of image to app if that option will be chosen in future option section.
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Old November 28th, 2011, 02:57 AM   #27 (permalink)
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The new release of app is now on market!
  1. Completely redesigned full-screen mode:
  2. slider allows moving thru streams smoothly
  3. new view modes (Parallel, Crossed etc)
  4. quick access to image and author info
  5. save on SD card is accessible from the full-screen mode now
So there was a first step to non 3d screens view modes!
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Old August 14th, 2013, 11:11 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Unhappy HTC EVO 3D Portrait mode

I am working on HTC EVO 3D and it seems to me I can experience the depth of three dimensions in landscape mode but the effect is lost while the phone is in portrait. does anyone have any suggeston/code/link how to make that work on portrait mode as well?

any help would be highly appreciated.
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Old August 14th, 2013, 02:25 PM   #29 (permalink)
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I am working on HTC EVO 3D and it seems to me I can experience the depth of three dimensions in landscape mode but the effect is lost while the phone is in portrait. does anyone have any suggeston/code/link how to make that work on portrait mode as well?

any help would be highly appreciated.
The 3D view is achieved with a parallax effect, using active light filtering to send independent images to your left and right eyes.

When you put the phone in portrait mode for viewing, the light from the two parts are sent up and down instead of left and right.

It's not going to happen, sorry, and it's hardware, it's fundamental to how the display is built - you can't change that.
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HTC EVO 3D
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Sprint continues their EVO line of Android Phones with what is certainly a first for them - a 3D phone. The HTC EVO 3D boasts 3D technology on a beautiful 4.3-inch screen and get this: you don't even need glasses to enjoy the 3D experience! B... Read More

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