Go Back   Android Forums > Android Phones > HTC Evo 4G LTE

New Forums: Nexus 6 | Nexus Player | Nexus 9
Like Tree5Likes
  • 1 Post By PattiCakeUS
  • 1 Post By PattiCakeUS
  • 1 Post By PattiCakeUS
  • 1 Post By 3vodroid
  • 1 Post By 3vodroid

test: Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old June 13th, 2012, 06:49 PM   #1 (permalink)
Member
Thread Author (OP)
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 105
 
Device(s):
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 25
Thanked 30 Times in 24 Posts
Default Screen Flicker

I have been experiencing a light screen flickering on some of the lighter colors, most notably lighter grays. I saw where Novox77 had mentioned having a similar issue in another thread but didn't see if he had any sort of resolution for the problem. After some searching I saw that the One X was plagued with this issue and that HTC had released an OTA that seemed to have fixed the issue for them. Info on that can be found here:

Screen Flicker - Response from HTC - Page 89 - xda-developers

Is anyone else experiencing this problem, or heard of any sort of solution? I hesitate to just swap it out because otherwise the device is perfect. If it is just software related I can hold off since it isn't horribly noticeable.

Advertisements
diestarbucks is offline  
Reply With Quote
sponsored links
Old June 13th, 2012, 07:08 PM   #2 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 147
 
Device(s):
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 2
Thanked 112 Times in 64 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by diestarbucks View Post
I have been experiencing a light screen flickering on some of the lighter colors, most notably lighter grays. I saw where Novox77 had mentioned having a similar issue in another thread but didn't see if he had any sort of resolution for the problem. After some searching I saw that the One X was plagued with this issue and that HTC had released an OTA that seemed to have fixed the issue for them. Info on that can be found here:

Screen Flicker - Response from HTC - Page 89 - xda-developers

Is anyone else experiencing this problem, or heard of any sort of solution? I hesitate to just swap it out because otherwise the device is perfect. If it is just software related I can hold off since it isn't horribly noticeable.
I haven't seen it. Is there a certain website that you notice it on, that I can goto to check it out. I haven't noticed anything, but I certainly haven't put the phone through any rigorous use and could have missed it.
omiller315 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old June 13th, 2012, 07:21 PM   #3 (permalink)
Member
Thread Author (OP)
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 105
 
Device(s):
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 25
Thanked 30 Times in 24 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by omiller315 View Post
I haven't seen it. Is there a certain website that you notice it on, that I can goto to check it out. I haven't noticed anything, but I certainly haven't put the phone through any rigorous use and could have missed it.
Noticeable every time I open market, and in all the gray boxes inside of the market. More noticeable when brightness is set above 60-70 percent or so. Noticeable on the orange wallpaper that comes already set, along with a couple of others with lighter tones to them, mostly when the homescreen is blank. Some other places as well, but those are the more easily noticeable ones.
diestarbucks is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old June 13th, 2012, 07:46 PM   #4 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 147
 
Device(s):
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 2
Thanked 112 Times in 64 Posts
Default

I bumped my brightness to 100% and wasn't seeing anything on the orange home screen or the market. I do know everyone's eyes refresh differently. Had a co worker swear her screen was flickering. I couldn't see it nor a bunch of other people .. Hopefully some others here will notice it as well, so you don't think you got a lemon . Like you said though if there is an issue like the One X, a software update will fix it. I would only ever return a phone over hardware . Software is easily fixed..
omiller315 is offline  
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to omiller315 For This Useful Post:
diestarbucks (June 13th, 2012)
Old June 13th, 2012, 07:51 PM   #5 (permalink)
Member
Thread Author (OP)
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 105
 
Device(s):
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 25
Thanked 30 Times in 24 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by omiller315 View Post
I bumped my brightness to 100% and wasn't seeing anything on the orange home screen or the market. I do know everyone's eyes refresh differently. Had a co worker swear her screen was flickering. I couldn't see it nor a bunch of other people .. Hopefully some others here will notice it as well, so you don't think you got a lemon . Like you said though if there is an issue like the One X, a software update will fix it. I would only ever return a phone over hardware . Software is easily fixed..
I agree. Like I said it isn't horrible, and the rest of my phone is just perfect, I love it. Hopefully it is just a software issue like the One X. Thanks for checking
diestarbucks is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old June 13th, 2012, 08:34 PM   #6 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 147
 
Device(s):
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 2
Thanked 112 Times in 64 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by diestarbucks View Post
I agree. Like I said it isn't horrible, and the rest of my phone is just perfect, I love it. Hopefully it is just a software issue like the One X. Thanks for checking
No problem. Do other people see it flicker on your phone?
omiller315 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old June 13th, 2012, 08:46 PM   #7 (permalink)
Member
Thread Author (OP)
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 105
 
Device(s):
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 25
Thanked 30 Times in 24 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by omiller315 View Post
No problem. Do other people see it flicker on your phone?
Yeah, my wife can see it, as well as a friend.

Edit: Wife only noticed when I pointed it out. It's faint, not enough to induce a seizure or anything It does flicker rapidly.

Edit 2: I'm really not trying to be picky here. I do really love this phone, it is not so awful that I can't live with it, I'm more worried if it is not something that can be a software fix of some sort, that it would potentially get worse.
diestarbucks is offline  
Last edited by diestarbucks; June 13th, 2012 at 08:55 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old June 14th, 2012, 08:56 AM   #8 (permalink)
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 22
 
Device(s):
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 7
Thanked 4 Times in 2 Posts
Default

I've got it. I noticed it a few days ago. It's very faint, but I can definitely see it when Google Play is loading and among other times as well.

I also have a dead pixel, which I could probably live with, but not both issues. I'll give HTC until next week to fix the flicker (if it's possible) or at least say the problem will be fixed or else I'll be exchanging the EVO.
Softgel97 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old June 14th, 2012, 09:10 AM   #9 (permalink)
Member
Thread Author (OP)
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 105
 
Device(s):
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 25
Thanked 30 Times in 24 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Softgel97 View Post
I've got it. I noticed it a few days ago. It's very faint, but I can definitely see it when Google Play is loading and among other times as well.

I also have a dead pixel, which I could probably live with, but not both issues. I'll give HTC until next week to fix the flicker (if it's possible) or at least say the problem will be fixed or else I'll be exchanging the EVO.
I did send an inquiry to HTC last night asking if they were aware of it and if there could be a software fix like for the One X. Not sure how HTC support is since I have never used that method of communication before, but I will let you know if I hear anything. If you have a spare moment, maybe shoot them an email as well. I'm sure that wouldn't hurt to bring awareness to the issue.
diestarbucks is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old June 14th, 2012, 12:19 PM   #10 (permalink)
The PearlyMon
 
EarlyMon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: New Mexico, USA
Posts: 46,612
 
Device(s): M8, LTEvo, 3vo, and Shift - Evo retired
Carrier: Sprint

Thanks: 42,832
Thanked 57,358 Times in 23,082 Posts
Default

novox77 resolved his by exchanging it for a new unit. When comparing to mine (no flicker) it was visible in Play Store/Market dialogs, so it's not just you.
EarlyMon is online now  
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to EarlyMon For This Useful Post:
diestarbucks (June 14th, 2012)
sponsored links
Old June 14th, 2012, 02:58 PM   #11 (permalink)
Leeeroy Jennnkinnns!
 
novox77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,968
 
Device(s): Evo 4G, 3D, LTE
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 1,190
Thanked 3,270 Times in 1,410 Posts
Default

yep, this was exactly the problem I had. The grays in the Play store flickered.

Another good way to reproduce the issue is to go to the brightness setting. The gray area around the brightness dialog window flickers.

The problem came and went. It wasn't consistent. It is subtle, but it was driving me nuts (kinda like PenTile). I spent an entire evening with EarlyMon trying to find out if it could be correlated to anything, a setting, the multitasking issue, etc. Nothing seemed to line up.

I went back to the store and looked at their two display units. They both flickered as well. So I asked for an exchange, not keeping my hopes up, since it seems like the store received a bad batch or something. But my new phone had no issues at all. I got lucky.
__________________

The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it. -Neil deGrasse Tyson

Help me out: Sign up with Dropbox and we both get 500MB extra space. Thanks!
novox77 is offline  
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to novox77 For This Useful Post:
diestarbucks (June 14th, 2012)
Old June 14th, 2012, 03:10 PM   #12 (permalink)
Member
Thread Author (OP)
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 105
 
Device(s):
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 25
Thanked 30 Times in 24 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by novox77 View Post
yep, this was exactly the problem I had. The grays in the Play store flickered.

Another good way to reproduce the issue is to go to the brightness setting. The gray area around the brightness dialog window flickers.

The problem came and went. It wasn't consistent. It is subtle, but it was driving me nuts (kinda like PenTile). I spent an entire evening with EarlyMon trying to find out if it could be correlated to anything, a setting, the multitasking issue, etc. Nothing seemed to line up.

I went back to the store and looked at their two display units. They both flickered as well. So I asked for an exchange, not keeping my hopes up, since it seems like the store received a bad batch or something. But my new phone had no issues at all. I got lucky.
Thanks for the response. It seems it could be the same sort of issue as the One X. Hopefully it is just software. I really would rather not play roulette with another phone.
diestarbucks is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old June 19th, 2012, 10:58 PM   #13 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: USA ese
Posts: 100
 
Device(s): HTC EVO 4G LTE
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 3
Thanked 11 Times in 8 Posts
Slash3040
Default Screen flashing

A little problem I've noticed was sometimes when looking at a photo, or even something like the Play Store's gray background when it's loading, the screen will somewhat flash different tones of that color. It almost looks like the phone is having a mini seizure, but it happens so quickly. Anyone else notice this?
Slash3040 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old June 26th, 2012, 01:18 PM   #14 (permalink)
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 22
 
Device(s):
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 7
Thanked 4 Times in 2 Posts
Default

Update on this... I noticed the screen flickering shortly after receiving the device. I just received a replacement from Wirefly (after a long battle) and the flickering is gone on the new screen and the colors are definitely brighter and more vivid. I'm glad I decided to exchange it and I would advise others experiencing the flickering to do the same. It appears to be a manufacturing defect affecting a certain number of phones.
Softgel97 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old June 27th, 2012, 08:41 AM   #15 (permalink)
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 32
 
Device(s):
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 2
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Default

Is it time to share Hardware versions?

I have the flicker, HW 0003.
I also have WiFi dropouts, although the signal icon shows full wifi bars.
photostu is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old June 27th, 2012, 08:58 AM   #16 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
PyroSporker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,598
 
Device(s):
Carrier: ):

Thanks: 815
Thanked 1,155 Times in 639 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Softgel97 View Post
Update on this... I noticed the screen flickering shortly after receiving the device. I just received a replacement from Wirefly (after a long battle) and the flickering is gone on the new screen and the colors are definitely brighter and more vivid. I'm glad I decided to exchange it and I would advise others experiencing the flickering to do the same. It appears to be a manufacturing defect affecting a certain number of phones.
Quote:
Originally Posted by photostu View Post
Is it time to share Hardware versions?

I have the flicker, HW 0003.
I also have WiFi dropouts, although the signal icon shows full wifi bars.
I believe that all handsets so far are Hardware Version 0003. (Please only post if you have 0002 or 0004 - we don't need a whole thread of people all saying 0003)

This is the best attempt I have seen at figuring out hardware differences:
A Tale of Two EVO 4G LTEs: Yellow Screens, Light Leakage, and Stickers - xda-developers
(See Post # 22 for a video of the flicker - I couldn't get it to play on my computer)

I have had a whiter display and yellower display in hand at the same time. Each with different box styles like the poster above had noticed. I personally have only seen flicker on the phones with the yellower display.
It also seemed that the yellower display handset had a slightly worse signal (totally unscientific observation - could have been a number of different factors at play.)

For those with flicker, do you have automatic brightness on?
PyroSporker is offline  
Last edited by PyroSporker; June 27th, 2012 at 09:01 AM.
Reply With Quote
Old June 27th, 2012, 02:47 PM   #17 (permalink)
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 32
 
Device(s):
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 2
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Default

Have flicker, did not have auto-brightness set.

Set it, still have flicker when screen is brighter.
photostu is offline  
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to photostu For This Useful Post:
PyroSporker (June 27th, 2012)
Old August 14th, 2012, 09:13 AM   #18 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
3vodroid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: New Jersey
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,174
 
Device(s): Rooted EVO 4G LTE ( MeanRom 4.6),Rooted Toshiba THRiVE (Dalepl's ICS)
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 1,561
Thanked 695 Times in 373 Posts
Send a message via Skype™ to 3vodroid
Default

Anyone else noticing their screens flickering on greys, photos and other random times? You have to adjust your eyes to notice it, but it is there no doubt. A good way to test if you have this issue is to go into the play store and look at the greys closely. Or open your pictures.
3vodroid is offline  
Last edited by 3vodroid; August 27th, 2012 at 05:15 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old August 27th, 2012, 05:14 PM   #19 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
3vodroid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: New Jersey
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,174
 
Device(s): Rooted EVO 4G LTE ( MeanRom 4.6),Rooted Toshiba THRiVE (Dalepl's ICS)
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 1,561
Thanked 695 Times in 373 Posts
Send a message via Skype™ to 3vodroid
Default

* SEE ABOVE POST* Is anyone else noticing this? I'm really curious.. It is NOTHING like what the one x crowd is seeing.. In fact you really have to look to see it... It is very subtle.. And it happens mostly with Grey colors and I noticed when viewing pictures also . Easier to see when screen brightness is higher. Just want to know if this is happening to anyone else.. I can definitely live with it.. I'm just anal about this stuff.. Lol
3vodroid is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old August 27th, 2012, 05:19 PM   #20 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
3vodroid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: New Jersey
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,174
 
Device(s): Rooted EVO 4G LTE ( MeanRom 4.6),Rooted Toshiba THRiVE (Dalepl's ICS)
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 1,561
Thanked 695 Times in 373 Posts
Send a message via Skype™ to 3vodroid
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3vodroid View Post
* SEE ABOVE POST* Is anyone else noticing this? I'm really curious.. It is NOTHING like what the one x crowd is seeing.. In fact you really have to look to see it... It is very subtle.. And it happens mostly with Grey colors and I noticed when viewing pictures also . Easier to see when screen brightness is higher. Just want to know if this is happening to anyone else.. I can definitely live with it.. I'm just anal about this stuff.. Lol
This issue was there when I was unrooted and now while rooted.. On meanROM and Viper.


I've searched "screen flicker" on YouTube and my phone does not do anything near that. I'm not sure how to explain it correctly... Or if it's just my eyes.. I've asked a co worker to look at my phone he said he didn't see anything

It doesn't flash different tones of color.. No artifacts.. Nothing that really stands out as "wow this screen is f-ed up"... Ugh sometimes I wish I wasn't such a perfectionist.. I always have to analyze and tinker... Lol


Go to the play store and get" screen tester" tap the screen a few times to get to the Grey scale screen that's the perfect test to see if you have what I'm experiencing. Make sure to set your brightness to max. If a couple people could run this test I would appreciate it
3vodroid is offline  
Last edited by 3vodroid; August 27th, 2012 at 05:53 PM.
Reply With Quote
sponsored links
Old August 27th, 2012, 05:57 PM   #21 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
PattiCakeUS's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Minnesota
Gender: Female
Posts: 511
 
Device(s): LG G2, Motorola Xoom
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 1,873
Thanked 269 Times in 173 Posts
Send a message via MSN to PattiCakeUS
Default

No flicker here.
3vodroid likes this.
__________________
When I was in grade school, they told me to write down what I wanted to be when I grew up. I wrote down happy. They told me I didn't understand the assignment. I told them they didn't understand life. - Unknown

http://androidforums.com/computers/818420-lets-cure-cancer-our-phones.html
PattiCakeUS is offline  
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to PattiCakeUS For This Useful Post:
3vodroid (August 27th, 2012)
Old August 27th, 2012, 06:03 PM   #22 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
3vodroid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: New Jersey
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,174
 
Device(s): Rooted EVO 4G LTE ( MeanRom 4.6),Rooted Toshiba THRiVE (Dalepl's ICS)
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 1,561
Thanked 695 Times in 373 Posts
Send a message via Skype™ to 3vodroid
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PattiCakeUS View Post
No flicker here.
Did you download that app and look very closely on the Grey shades screen? Thank you
3vodroid is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old August 27th, 2012, 06:10 PM   #23 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
PattiCakeUS's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Minnesota
Gender: Female
Posts: 511
 
Device(s): LG G2, Motorola Xoom
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 1,873
Thanked 269 Times in 173 Posts
Send a message via MSN to PattiCakeUS
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3vodroid View Post
Did you download that app and look very closely on the Grey shades screen? Thank you
No I didn't.... but if I do and then I see flickering I'm going to be annoyed. I'd rather just not see any flicker now and be happy

Oh wait, maybe I should have just said "yes" in answer to your question
3vodroid likes this.
PattiCakeUS is offline  
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to PattiCakeUS For This Useful Post:
3vodroid (August 27th, 2012)
Old August 27th, 2012, 06:21 PM   #24 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
3vodroid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: New Jersey
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,174
 
Device(s): Rooted EVO 4G LTE ( MeanRom 4.6),Rooted Toshiba THRiVE (Dalepl's ICS)
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 1,561
Thanked 695 Times in 373 Posts
Send a message via Skype™ to 3vodroid
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PattiCakeUS View Post
No I didn't.... but if I do and then I see flickering I'm going to be annoyed. I'd rather just not see any flicker now and be happy

Oh wait, maybe I should have just said "yes" in answer to your question
Lmao! I see what you did there.. Yeah please.... Do not be like me and analyze everything.. Sometimes I feel like I'm looking for problems.. And you know what happens when you keep knocking on the Devils door...

I guess if it turns out to be my screen I'm going to have to buy the white conversion a little sooner.. I'm going to keep the black unibody but install the silver kickstand.. An white digitizer... Someone on xda has his setup like that. It looks amazing
3vodroid is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old August 27th, 2012, 06:25 PM   #25 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
PattiCakeUS's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Minnesota
Gender: Female
Posts: 511
 
Device(s): LG G2, Motorola Xoom
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 1,873
Thanked 269 Times in 173 Posts
Send a message via MSN to PattiCakeUS
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3vodroid View Post
Lmao! I see what you did there.. Yeah please.... Do not be like me and analyze everything.. Sometimes I feel like I'm looking for problems.. And you know what happens when you keep knocking on the Devils door...

I guess if it turns out to be my screen I'm going to have to buy the white conversion a little sooner.. I'm going to keep the black unibody but install the silver kickstand.. An white digitizer... Someone on xda has his setup like that. It looks amazing
OK... I set my brightness to max and downloaded this, no flickering. Good thing too or I'd have been mad at you!
3vodroid likes this.
PattiCakeUS is offline  
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to PattiCakeUS For This Useful Post:
3vodroid (August 27th, 2012)
Old August 27th, 2012, 06:37 PM   #26 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
3vodroid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: New Jersey
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,174
 
Device(s): Rooted EVO 4G LTE ( MeanRom 4.6),Rooted Toshiba THRiVE (Dalepl's ICS)
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 1,561
Thanked 695 Times in 373 Posts
Send a message via Skype™ to 3vodroid
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PattiCakeUS View Post
OK... I set my brightness to max and downloaded this, no flickering. Good thing too or I'd have been mad at you!
Lol! I'm glad you don't have any issues its really not enough to need to be replaced or anything bc it doesn't really effect anything.. But perfectionism is a real problem for me. Lol
PattiCakeUS likes this.
3vodroid is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old August 28th, 2012, 08:08 AM   #27 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
3vodroid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: New Jersey
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,174
 
Device(s): Rooted EVO 4G LTE ( MeanRom 4.6),Rooted Toshiba THRiVE (Dalepl's ICS)
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 1,561
Thanked 695 Times in 373 Posts
Send a message via Skype™ to 3vodroid
Default

At this very moment I have zero flicker ive been trying to find it all morning... so weird..
PattiCakeUS likes this.
3vodroid is offline  
Last edited by 3vodroid; August 29th, 2012 at 11:48 AM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

HTC EVO 4G LTE
Current Rating:
Rate this Phone:

The HTC EVO 4G LTE is Sprint's version of the HTC One X. It comes with all the same specs, except for the processor, internal storage and radios (includes LTE). And aesthetics are also significantly different. While many users have complaine... Read More



Go Back   Android Forums > Android Phones > HTC Evo 4G LTE
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:20 AM.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.