I couldn't help but wonder what WiMAX 4G was and why I should be interested in it. To understand its significance, I decided to do some Internet searches. What I learned is, WiMAX speeds are generally considered to be 4 to 5 times faster than 3G, but on Sprint’s official site, they indicate WiMAX speeds are up to 10 times faster than 3G.
Ultimately, WiMAX speeds will rival DSL and cable broadband on your desktop computer. Just think of what that could do for streaming video, live TV and video conferencing on your phone.
4G Systems
Within the United States, there are two major systems using 4G mobile technology. One is known as WiMAX and is backed by Clearwire, a firm whose majority owner is Sprint Nextel. They began testing services in Baltimore in 2008 and then expanded into new major markets in 2009. Sprint intends to have 80 cities covered by the end of 2010. The rival system, Long Term Evolution or LTE, is backed mainly by Verizon. They are expected to begin testing LTE this year, but it will not be available for widespread use on Verizon until 2012.
Standards
The term 4G is a broad term which does not meet any standards, but that will change.
Wikipedia 4G Article. A 4G cellular system must have target peak data rates of up to approximately 100 Mbit/s for high mobility such as mobile access and up to approximately 1 Gbit/s for low mobility such as nomadic/local wireless access, according to the ITU requirements.
The world's first publicly available LTE service was opened in the two Scandinavian capitals - Stockholm and Oslo a couple of months ago on the December 14, 2009, and was branded 4G. The Mobile WiMAX (IEEE 802.16e-2005) mobile wireless broadband access (MWBA) standard is sometimes branded 4G. It offers peak data rates of 128 Mbit/s downlink and 56 Mbit/s uplink over 20 MHz wide channels. The IEEE 802.16m evolution of 802.16e is under development, with the objective to fulfill the IMT-Advanced criteria of 1000 Mbit/s for stationary reception and 100 Mbit/s for mobile reception.
Goal
The goal of 4G will be to replace the entire core of cellular networks with a cellular network based on the IP (Internet Protocol) for video, packet data utilizing Voice over IP (VoIP) and multimedia services.
History
Below are a few news articles that go back almost 5 years about Sprint and WiMAX. I only mention these, because some people think Sprint just started working on WiMAX.
6-30-2005 - WiMAX begins to gel at Sprint. Cell phone operator Sprint plans to begin testing next-generation WiMAX handsets and other WiMAX equipment from Motorola, a sign that Sprint's future network plans are falling into place.
12-8-2005 - Mobile WiMAX gets green light. An industry standards group has approved a new specification for WiMAX that includes mobility support, thus paving the way for chipmakers and device manufacturers to start working on new products. The standard, called 802.16e was finalized two months ago, but it was formally ratified on Wednesday by the Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers. WiMAX is considered a promising next-generation wireless technology because it supports high data rates and has a long transmission reach.
8-8-2006 - Sprint to use WiMAX for 4G wireless network. Sprint executives said during a press briefing here that the company plans to spend about $1 billion on the network in 2007. It will spend another $1.5 billion to $2 billion in 2008. The new fourth-generation, or 4G, network is expected to go live in the fourth quarter of 2007. About 100 million people will have access to the network by the end of 2008, the company said.
5-7-2008 - Sprint Nextel and Clearwire detail 4G plans. Sprint Nextel and Clearwire are combining network assets to build a new nationwide 4G wireless network that the companies say has huge benefits for each of them. Until now, Sprint and Clearwire have been on separate paths to build nationwide broadband wireless networks using WiMAX, an IP technology that can blanket entire cities and provides more than five times the speed of 3G wireless networks. Now they are joining forces and creating a new company that will have access to more wireless spectrum than any other company in the entire country.
Quote:
Cable operators Comcast, Time Warner Cable, and Bright House Networks, as well as tech giants Intel and Google have invested a combined $3.2 billion in the new company, which is valued at $14.5 billion.
12-1-2008 - Clearwire-Sprint Nextel unveils new brand. Clearwire and Sprint-Nextel announced Monday they have completed their joint-venture transaction and will offer mobile WiMAX service under the "Clear" brand.
Sprint is the only national wireless network to offer 4G. It is available now in 33 cities and that is expected to more than double this year, to over 80 cities. WiMAX networks are fairly inexpensive and easy to set up, and that’s because the base stations can be installed on current cellular towers and on towers at the top of buildings.
1-12-2010 - A rumor that Wal-Mart and Sprint plan to work together in an effort to grow the nationwide WiMAX network. This includes placing WiMAX towers on the top of all Wal-Mart locations. Many stores overlap each other in a 30-50 mile radius. Essentially, this would be enough to cover a good chunk of the United States. Plus, this would not cost nearly as much as erecting towers and dealing with hassles like zoning permissions.
This is nothing new as I found articles going back to 2004 stating that Wal-Mart wanted to install base stations attached to all of its stores "to bestow broadband Internet access upon a good portion of the US".
Last edited by billsmed; March 20th, 2010 at 01:49 PM.
Reason: To add 3/15/2010 update
No Roddy, it's not a crazy question at all, but I'm not able to prove it one way or the other right now. Guess we'll have to wait until the phone is released to find out. Perhaps someone with WiMAX/VoIP/mobile experience will be able to answer.
My reason for posting this thread is because I'm excited about the HTC Supersonic. I wrote quite a bit tying to stir interest and was hoping people would be able to comment and expound more on the subject.
bill you certainly did your rresearch man! yea sprint CLAIMS 4g is 10x faster, but that is the theoretical max, in order to do this they're range per tower would be much smaller than what they currently have it set it, so in reall application you will prob see 4-5x faster than 3g.
they are the only major carrier going the wimax route, but that would be obvious looking at their past, they want to be the first at things, everyone else is going LTE which is still theoretical in the states, WiMax is deployed and working, they were the first majore carrier in the states to go digital and now they have done it again with 4g, some will claim it was a bad choice going with WiMax but they will still be a few years ahead of other companies.
on that note, if LTE blows WiMax outa the water i have READ where clear has been quoted saying that if necesary all their towers can be switched to LTE via software change? not sure how that is exaclty possible seeing the different bands they use but i have read it in multiple locations, if this is true, then sprint has been well prepared in going about this proccess.
i am certainly excited to see a 4g phone later this year not because i will be getting it but it is progress, and quicker one comes out the quicker more will follow, getting better each generation. and the plain fact that progress is always good.
on that note, if LTE blows WiMax outa the water i have READ where clear has been quoted saying that if necesary all their towers can be switched to LTE via software change? not sure how that is exaclty possible seeing the different bands they use but i have read it in multiple locations, if this is true, then sprint has been well prepared in going about this proccess.
Thanks, Covert. Right now, I don't see LTE blowing WiMAX out of the water, mostly because Sprint has a head start and they have all those tech giants behind them. I've also seen reference to WiMAX2, which I believe is an upgrade to IEEE 802.16m from IEEE 802.16e. WiMAX2, if that's what it will be called, will offer more speed and will do more to match the 4G standard.
If Sprint can upgrade to LTE "via software" as you mentioned, then that's a move they will probably want to make. It seems logical if they want to stay in step with the rest of the world, but only Sprint can make that decision.
yea totaly agree, if i were sprint, this would be my "leep frog" into 4g, if they are the first, they will be the largest for quiet sometime, and when buisnesses end up wanitng 4g speed, where will they look first? sprint. i think it is a smart decision by them, even if it will not be the accepted standard, i dont understand the wimax bashers, atleasts it's something NOW, which is all that is really ever relevant in my mind, the rest are dreams
I know the release date is anyone's guess but do you really think Sprint could roll out a 4G phone by March? I was thinking Q3 but I won't complain lol.
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I know the release date is anyone's guess but do you really think Sprint could roll out a 4G phone by March?
We should know a lot more after the HTC scheduled press event on February 16th at the Mobile World Congress. When I Google "sprint htc supersonic", I get over 600,000 hits. A lot of them are saying the Supersonic will be released in March.
my only question: i know the phone is 4g/3g, but will it also support edge/2.5g, the standard connection. cause 3g is not everywhere yet still so this phone needs to work outside those areas as well...
my family is in dallas so i can buy this phone since dallas has 4g but i will use it MOST of the time in oklahoma, plenty of 3g but still some spots where it's not there yet but 2.5g is, will it work in these areas or ONLY 4g/3g?
I read that the Supersonic works on EVDO/EVDO Rev A, so my guess is, wherever your Instinct works, the Supersonic should also work. I'd say you would have the best of both worlds. When in Dallas, you'd would have 4G broadband type speed like you get on your desktop.
It would be great if the rumor about Wal-Mart putting WiMAX on all their buildings comes true. The following map shows where all their stores are located.
It looks like this would give you coverage at the university as well.
that is the most beautiful map ever, if the rumor turns out true and that would be sprints 4g coverage map i will cry! i'd have 4g for the whole drive back and forth too LMAO.
how much does anyone speculate this phone costing... the N1 is 179, but this has a biger screen, 4g and fm supposedly so HOPEFULLY no more than 250 i don't see myself putting down more than that for a phone
Ok as for voice/data at the same time, I would say yes, if your in 4g coverage. 4g woul be a different radio, and you can use wifi while on a call, so its definately possible. Edge- no. Supersonic is cdma. Edge is gsm.
Wimax to lte via software? Definately possible. Wimax and lte are very very similiar, so I don't see why this would be a problem.
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It would be great if the rumor about Wal-Mart putting WiMAX on all their buildings comes true. The following map shows where all their stores are located.
I was wondering how long it would take Walmart to ink a deal like this... It's exciting. I have 4 Walmarts within 10 miles of me, and they are all over the place in central Pa.
Looks like they gotta map for that too!
Last edited by pequeajim; February 7th, 2010 at 10:30 AM.
I've been trying to nail down where WiMAX 4G is available and where it should be coming soon. Clear/Sprint isn't making it easy to figure out where they're going to deploy next, so this may not be accurate on the "Coming Soon" locations.
California: Chico, Merced, Modesto, Redding, Stockton, Visalia Ohio: Dayton Florida: Daytona, Jacksonville, St. Augustine Minnesota: Duluth, St. Cloud New York: Rochester, Syracuse Oregon: Bend, Eugene, Tennessee: Nashville Texas: Longview Virginia: Richmond Washington: Aberdeen, Grants Pass, Klamath Falls, Medford, Snohomish, Tri-Cities, Wenatchee, Yakima. Washington DC Wisconsin: Eau Claire
Texas seems to be the clear (no pun intended) winner so far where 4G is already operational. As I mentioned above, the cities where the roll-out is underway seems to be somewhat of a secret. I would appreciate any input.
Wow, nice find grimloch! Good to see my old stomping grounds in the WiMAX news. They're saying that Sprint bought iPCS back in October and apparently that's been one of the things holding up WiMAX, because of an impending lawsuit against them by iPCS. Another thing I saw there was that Clear is going to be coming out with their own WiMAX phone, but not until the end of the year. HTC Olympian anybody? At this point, it's unclear how this effects Sprint and the HTC Supersonic which I'm still hoping will be released next month.
Edit: In this article from the Grand Rapids Wireless Home Page was a link to How WiMAX works and it's very good.
Last edited by billsmed; February 11th, 2010 at 12:11 AM.
Reason: Add link
I know the release date is anyone's guess but do you really think Sprint could roll out a 4G phone by March? I was thinking Q3 but I won't complain lol.
I seriously doubt Sprint can even update the Hero to 2.1 by March. Them coming out with a new 4G phone running 2.1 by March is laughable. This wont come out till end of summer at the earliest. Would have heard some solid info on it already if it was launching next month.
Last edited by mbell75; February 11th, 2010 at 05:07 AM.
we never hear anything solid from sprint phones till 2 weeks before, and when you build a phone based around 2.1 it is much easier to get it out quick than it is to take a phone designed around 1.5 and put 2.1 on it
I seriously doubt Sprint can even update the Hero to 2.1 by March. Them coming out with a new 4G phone running 2.1 by March is laughable. This wont come out till end of summer at the earliest. Would have heard some solid info on it already if it was launching next month.
If we don't hear something from HTC about this phone next Tuesday, then I have a tendency to agree with you. In the meantime, I'm trying to stay positive and keep my hopes up.
When you say we "Would have heard some solid info on it already if it was launching next month", if you think about it, the N1 wasn't official until the day it went on sale. The Sprint HTC Hero, the Droid or the Eris weren't officially announced until about a week before they were released. That seems to be the way it's done.
The guys over in the Incredible forum sure have their hopes up, but nothing official has been announced on that phone either. That's not stopping them from talking about it. Some of them are hoping it will be released sometime next month too.
One thing I know for sure, everyone that wants the Supersonic and the Incredible is looking for something to come out of MWC next week and hopefully, we'll have good news.
I seriously doubt Sprint can even update the Hero to 2.1 by March. Them coming out with a new 4G phone running 2.1 by March is laughable. This wont come out till end of summer at the earliest. Would have heard some solid info on it already if it was launching next month.
I just visited Sprint store tonight and looked at both Hero and Moment. The sales rep already mentioned Hero "now comes with 2.1" in the sales pitch...
billsmed - Thanks for the detailed info on Sprint/WiMAX. I guess my choice is now between VZW (N1) vs. Sprint (Supersonic). I am just hoping one of them will finally come out in March...
i just visited sprint store tonight and looked at both hero and moment. The sales rep already mentioned hero "now comes with 2.1" in the sales pitch...
Recently, Verizon has released information that they plan to have a 4G phone summer 2011. Humm... I wounder how much LTE coverage they'll have by then?
I'd love to hear from you guys. What are your thoughts?
Bill: In spite of all the talk about the Incredible, this would be my phone of choice, but not on anything but Verizon. I can't believe that Verizon would not offer something with similar specs at least by the end of the year; then I would be all over it. It seems to be the perfect format for me, size and power...
My plan is to get something on a 1 year contract and hope for news of this phone within a year. I am running WinMo and want to move to the Android platform asap.
I've given some thought of going with Verizon when my contract with Sprint runs out, mostly because Verizon has better coverage in my area, but that was when I was interested in the N1 and before I found out about the Supersonic.
In your case, the Incredible will probably turn out to be the sensible choice. From the specs though, I've had a feeling (and it's only a feeling) that the phone is just a upgrade to the Eris like the Legend is to the Hero. If it is, then it won't be nearly as powerful as those people in the Incredible Forum are hoping for. For those eagerly awaiting the phone, it would be a real letdown, so I hope my feelings are wrong.
I really don't want to go on here too much about Verizon or the Incredible, but I have another hunch. I've already said that phone is likely to be underpowered. I really don't think Verizon wants anything to halt Droid sales just yet. The Incredible will be a nice phone, but it will be more geared to the younger set with flashy colored back plates, etc. It will be a cheaper phone with less memory, less ram and a smaller screen.
On the other side of the coin, I believe there will be a phone even better than the Supersonic coming from Verizon before the end of the year. The rumored Motorola Shadow will have a 4.3" screen with 850 x 484 resolution, an 8-megapixel camera and video capable of 1080p. It's also supposed to have HDMI out.
I would expect even though they don't have their LTE network set up yet that this phone is likely to be LTE ready. I'm sure that Verizon is going to want to best Sprint and that's where the next surprise (might) be. Qualcomm released the Snapdragon 1.3GHz chip to "Limited Manufacturing" (I think that's what they called it) this past January. The reports are indicating this chip will be out before the end of the year, so this makes sense to me. I'm pretty sure that chip is necessary for the 1080p although the 1.5GHz chip might be required for that.
Even though the Shadow will be nice, this next generation chip will really make that phone and will be the next thing everyone wants. So even if the Verizon "Android must-have-it-now fanatics" are a little jealous when the Supersonic comes out, they won't be jealous for long.
I still think Sprint has the advantage. If they come out with the Supersonic soon, it could really help them. That and the fact that they have a big head start on deploying 4G should put them in the driver's seat for quite awhile.
Again, this is all speculation on my part, but I'm really hoping Sprint makes a move soon. For those anxious for a good phone, I don't think you'll have to wait as long for a phone from Sprint as those waiting for a phone to come from Verizon.
Sprint has decent coverage in my area, (central pa), but as always, the big deterrent is the number of family and friends that are already on Verizon. There is potential friction stirring up between Google and Verizon, and the nice phones that Sprint is getting, it might make sense to go with Sprint. Those are the things that I will be evaluating over the next month or so. I am on month to month, so I have some real flexibility.
I can be patient. My 3.5 year old 6800 is still chugging along.
billsmed. Everything from the latest Incredible specs says it will be the best phone on the market specs wise now. The only thing the Shadow (which won't be LTE) has on the Incredible is screen size.
I expect the Supersonic to get the same specs as the Incredible plus 4g and 4.3". The Supersonic will only help those who have good Sprint coverage. I live like 2 blocks outside of their 4G coverage in south jersey, but Sprint has always been horrible in this area for everything.
What latest Incredible specs? Where can I see them besides the Incredible forum? I know everyone there wants something like the N1 with Sense UI, but I don't think that is the Incredible.
To repeat what I said above, this is just speculation on my part and it's my opinion, so take it for what its worth. Since Verizon is still advertising their Droid very heavily, I don't think they're going to bring in a strong competitor to that right now. We know that the Nexus One will be coming to Verizon very soon and that should satisfy a lot of people, but it probably won't hurt their Droid sales.
Come November the Droid will be a year old, so I would expect Verizon to have a new phone by then, possibly the Shadow, to replace it in time for Christmas.
I'm pretty confident about the Supersonic being released soon. If you want a powerful phone, you might consider it. Sprint's prices are better than anyone else, their customer service is good and their coverage is getting better, so I'm real happy with them.
I would ask you to do one thing and that's to look at the WiMAX video demonstration. The link to it is in the top post in this thread. If you look at that, you'll see that the 4G coverage gets stronger as it overlaps with other WiMAX signals. If you don't have good 4G coverage where you're at, just give it some time. From what I'm seeing, they're trying to get WiMAX to blanket entire cities and it will even work in rural areas.
So far, there isn't any WiMAX coverage in Florida, but I'm interested in the Supersonic because it looks like it will have a big screen and it will probably have the Snapdragon 1GHz processor.
Incredible is 1ghz snapdragon with 512mb+ ram, 8gb internal rom, optical track pad with capacitive buttons, fm tuner, 3.7" OLED (rumored not to have the MT issue), side mounted micro usb plug (good for docking like the droid hopefully). All at the Incredible sub forum.
Sprint just has crap coverage all around here. My wife pitched a fit when I was considering TMobile, I got an "absolutely not" when I mentioned Sprint.
Incredible is 1ghz snapdragon with 512mb+ ram, 8gb internal rom, optical track pad with capacitive buttons, fm tuner, 3.7" OLED (rumored not to have the MT issue), side mounted micro usb plug (good for docking like the droid hopefully). All at the Incredible sub forum.
Sprint just has crap coverage all around here. My wife pitched a fit when I was considering TMobile, I got an "absolutely not" when I mentioned Sprint.
I find any of those specs about the Incredible hard to believe, but time will tell. Too bad your wife won't let you consider the Supersonic.
The way I understand it, the data services will run on WiMAX. The beauty is, it will be as fast as your home Internet service and VoIP should work well on the Supersonic. It will work on 3G too, but I imagine it will be a lot better where you have a 4G or a WiFi connection.
Either way, it shouldn't be a problem with Sprint and their Everything plans, since they include both voice and data. Theoretically, with WiMAX, a WiFi connection like at home or a WiFi hot spot, you wouldn't need a voice plan. This is also where Google Voice comes into play.
I find any of those specs about the Incredible hard to believe, but time will tell. Too bad your wife won't let you consider the Supersonic.
Aside from the internal ROM they are basically just the HTC Desire. Verizon's version of the palm pre has an 8gb rom on it too. Those specs were taken from documentation given to testers and confirmed by another tester.
You know what? I'm on this side of the fence and you're on that side. Nothing wrong with that. We can't all like the same thing, that's for sure. Just keep in mind that when the (actual) specs come out and you're feeling letdown, that the Supersonic will be here. It may look super to you then.
That's about all I have to say right now. If someone else has something to add - fine, but I'd like to keep this thread focused on WiMAX and the Supersonic, if possible.
I'm not trying to tell you what to get. I just have a feeling the only difference between the phones will be the screen and 4g (if you have access to it).
The way I understand it, the data services will run on WiMAX. The beauty is, it will be as fast as your home Internet service and VoIP should work well on the Supersonic. It will work on 3G too, but I imagine it will be a lot better where you have a 4G or a WiFi connection.
Either way, it shouldn't be a problem with Sprint and their Everything plans, since they include both voice and data. Theoretically, with WiMAX, a WiFi connection like at home or a WiFi hot spot, you wouldn't need a voice plan. This is also where Google Voice comes into play.
Thanks Bill.
After I asked that question, I did what I should have done BEFORE asking it, a little research. Your links at the top of the page helped a ton.
Like I said earlier, sprint coverage in my area is "ok", but everyone I know in my family is Verizon. Sprint does have free mobile to any mobile, but while free for me, it would burn minutes for the person I am talking to.
I have been on Verizon for over 10 years. This phone is a BIG temptation for me to move over to Sprint. We'll see what happens next week...
For sure, there's no decision to make yet. Let's wait and see what happens with the Supersonic first. As far as the mobile-to-mobile thing on Sprint, you could always tell the person you'd call them back, or just not answer and then call them right away.
When Sprint announced their first ever 4G handset at CTIA in March 2010, they dropped a bombshell on the mobile world. The HTC Evo 4G is a device that introduces a lot of firsts when compared to other North American handsets. This is the first Andr... Read More
WiMAX/4G/3G/CDMA and the HTC Supersonic
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