I'm not sure if this has been done before (I had a brief search and couldn't find it) but I don't see any harm in having an up to date version of this thread.
We all know that battery power is an important issue with the HTC Hero. I just wondered what people had discovered in the way of apps and using their phones to optimise usage.
I've included things which I like, and which I don't because I find it useful to read about applications which aren't so good, so I know to avoid them, but feel free to try them for yourselves.
Close everything
I installed this from the market, after reading it suggested on a blog, but I'm not convinced its the best to be honest. I've "closed everything" and yet still seen tasks running in the background I'm going to remove this pretty soon unless someone points out a reason not to.
TasKiller
Worked fine for the first week but I've now removed this as I prefer Taskpanel
TaskPanel
I like this a lot and have used for a few weeks. It tells me all the applications which are running and allows me to stop them all. If I want to keep something running (eg scrrebl) in the background then I can set it to ignore "kill all background tasks" for specific applications. It also tells me how much available memory I have.
finally a couple of apps that I find useful for increasing battery usage although not task killers in themselves are.
screebl
This little app turns the screen off very quickly (after about 10 seconds) unless it looks like you're using the phone. It thinks you're using the phone if you're holding it at a certain angle (which you can set).
Graphical Battery Stats Monitor
I installed this yesterday. It takes a while to collect data, but its telling me that it i'm using 5% battery an hour, which would explain why I need a daily recharge.
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The fundamental problem here is that most people don't have a clue about Linux, which is essentially Android. You DON'T need a task manager for any of the applications, as the memory is managed by the system. Anyone who has used a linux system knows that even on a system with 64GB of RAM linux will use 99% of the RAM, if you ran the same linux on a system with 128MB of RAM it will use 99% of the RAM, this is called Caching and makes linux very efficient with memory. So don't waste your time with a task manager.
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This is what I am trying to explain to the OP, Bhav, linux Caches, and in a linux system if you have available memory, something is wrong, the system isn't well tuned :-D
The fundamental problem here is that most people don't have a clue about Linux, which is essentially Android. You DON'T need a task manager for any of the applications, as the memory is managed by the system. Anyone who has used a linux system knows that even on a system with 64GB of RAM linux will use 99% of the RAM, if you ran the same linux on a system with 128MB of RAM it will use 99% of the RAM, this is called Caching and makes linux very efficient with memory. So don't waste your time with a task manager.
Funny, when phone starts to slow down a bit, i use task manager and wow speeds back, its not as effective as you say it is which is why these things are made in the first place. When memory gets down to about 23mb that's when I start noticing slow down.
Tottaly agree with the posts about Linux's use of memory & it's management. My Ubuntu system utilises my 8GB of RAM (kernel option) better than my Windows system..
However.. with Android I find "killing" some processes that are in the background (apps that you want to close as you are no longer using them) sometimes slow down the phone. Or be it 'seem to' slow down the system.
So as soon as I kill the unwanted processes the phone seems to be faster..
Just like on a PC..killing a process will free up memory..but as you've pointed out Linux's memory management means unused memory is somewhat wasted..
Funny, when phone starts to slow down a bit, i use task manager and wow speeds back, its not as effective as you say it is which is why these things are made in the first place. When memory gets down to about 23mb that's when I start noticing slow down.
Very good point! Now I haven't had any slow downs as such, so don't know about it personally. Is it possible for you to describe them?
Is it taking say 1 minute, 10s etc for the browser to open? Is it 50% slower? What is slower? Does the call quality go into the drugged slow motion effect?
What happens as far as I know on a linux system is that the system caches a lot of things into RAM, say you use the albums a lot to show pics to your mates. And since all the data is in RAM the pics load faster, but say you want to flick through all your mp3s, then linux kicks out the cached pics, and starts caching the mp3s, so that you can flick through them. The slow downs are transient, a bit like a DSG gearbox ;-)
Funny, when phone starts to slow down a bit, i use task manager and wow speeds back, its not as effective as you say it is which is why these things are made in the first place. When memory gets down to about 23mb that's when I start noticing slow down.
No..these things are made because people used to windows feel they need a ctrl alt del equivalent as soon as there's any slowdown. In reality, you should try to find the app that's causing the slowdown and uninstall it
A task manager is as the name suggests a way of managing tasks (processes). You can thus kill a process..but the program which the process belongs to will still be installed on your phone and therefore the process will/can run in the background..[I find some apps automatically run in the background even after I have killed them earlier on]... (unless you have it blacklisted..if the task manager allows you to do so). Therefore it does not uninstall the program that causes the lag.
I'm not sure how advanced the taskkillers out there are (I have not tried them all) but if one of them allowed you to uninstall an application via its GUI then yes.. your statement is correct.. otherwise no.
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bhav ......In reality, you should try to find the app that's causing the slowdown and uninstall it....
Quote:
Originally Posted by RemArcs
I'm no techie and learnt something by reading this thread but reading the above quote wouldn't a task killer help you do just that?
It would be nice if a task killer incorporated graphical charts to show CPU usage / memory usage etc for each process. I know there a separate apps that allow you to monitor this but I have not used a task manager which incorporates both.. may be someone can suggest one..
Last edited by jUsT2eXy; January 10th, 2010 at 12:35 PM.
....program which the process belongs to will still be installed on your phone and therefore the process will/can run in the background....
Yes yes yes I do realise a task killer will not uninstall a program. My point was that this thread sort of concludes that android does not need a task killer but the way to stop lag was to find the offending program and uninstall it. So a layman could use a task killer to find the offending program by process of elimination and the uninstall in the usual way.
Yes yes yes I do realise a task killer will not uninstall a program. My point was that this thread sort of concludes that android does not need a task killer but the way to stop lag was to find the offending program and uninstall it. So a layman could use a task killer to find the offending program by process of elimination and the uninstall in the usual way.
The only time one single program will cause a memory leak (and cause your phone to become slow) would be when it is improperly coded and buggy or what not. [Saying that though..a 3D game that requires additional graphics memory..which some Android phones may not have would also cause lag on a phone that does not have sufficient hardware etc] ..When I download apps from the market place I do so by checking its popularity / ratings and reviews.
Therefore after doing all this it is unlikely one application by itself would cause a memory leak / cause your phone to lag.
Usually you use a task manager because the phone seems slow. So you want to kill processes to free up memory and Voila.. the phone is faster/
smoother.
After using many apps and closing them the phone does seem to slow down because in effect the apps are still running and have not been killed.
This uses memory. More memory means less memory is available to use. More used = slow. Well, this works with other phones / windows. But we know about the Linux memory management so ....
Therefore what your saying is true somewhat because obviously any process you kill will be one less process out of the many that will be running in the background. Therefore almost immediately you will probably notice a performance increase with your phone.
Therefore scientifically using a task manager solely to see what is making the phone lagg will not help...unless as stated before the task manager showed you the memory / cpu usage for a process.
====
The only way you could do what you said (process of elimination) would be this way:-
1) Use any task manager to kill every app running.
2) Start your 1st app
3) Is phone lagging? (Probably not because it is running solely by itself)..
Now if you kept on doing this experiment without killing the apps in the background before starting the next app for testing... you will experience some sort of sluggishness.. and then you will say THIS APP IS CAUSING ME TO LAGG... this would be an unfair test..
You would have to kill any background tasks before testing the next app to see if it was lagging..
I hate it when I can't explain things properly.. but I have tried to give it a go.. please do contest what I have said as I know I am not always right like everyone else and I do make mistakes and I too want to learn.
thanks.
Last edited by jUsT2eXy; January 10th, 2010 at 01:22 PM.
ok. I've been careful and read the reviews before downloading an app. Everything works well. but say one day my phone lags what should I do? Is there a easy answer or does it depend on the reason for the lag?
This is very simple;
The Task Manager is not written by GOD, it uses the same API and system calls. If the linux (android) kernel can't see the memory leak or a runaway thread, then 99% is that the task manager won't see it.
The task manger simply consumes more resources and slows the phone down.
A process can be running in the background using 0% CPU, what point is there killing it? By default apps are installed in RAM, so what difference does it make if they are running at 0% CPU??
How much "free" memory do you need, 100MB, 30MB?? if you have enough for the biggest app, that's all you need. If a thread is using CPU, in linux the system is re-niced to make it nicer to others, that is given lower priority. This is done by Linux you don't need to do it manually, but you can if you are root, a pointless exercise.
I have astro file manager, and it has a task manager, I launched it out of curiosity and it is just a nice geek tool, no use except for knowledge. The people who can't understand why they don't need a task manager, are the ones who will download one, use it and break their system and winge and cry, like the ones who complain their alarm has stopped etc
"The fundamental problem here is that most people don't have a clue about Linux, which is essentially Android. You DON'T need a task manager for any of the applications, as the memory is managed by the system. Anyone who has used a linux system knows that even on a system with 64GB of RAM linux will use 99% of the RAM, if you ran the same linux on a system with 128MB of RAM it will use 99% of the RAM, this is called Caching and makes linux very efficient with memory. So don't waste your time with a task manager".
I am actually a linux user and have been for a couple of years. I've used ubuntu, linux mint, fedora, musix and debian amongst others. Sorry to get pedantic but Linux isn't essentially Android - what you mean is that Android is an operating system that is based on (or even is) linux. Furthermore I have no idea how linux systems manage RAM and I've never had to. None of my laptops suffer from untimely battery drop or from lag.
Anyway this isn't productive. What I want to try and do is make sure that I can go a day or two without having to plug in my phone. I could take my old Nokia away for a weekend and not need to worry about taking a charger because I knew that with full charge Friday morning it would easily last till Monday.
If task killers aren't the solution, then what should be done.
Furthermore has anyone else tried using this.
Graphical Battery Stats Monitor
It's supposed to collect data about battery usage for various applications which could well be the holy grail for which we're searching, but so far I haven't had it running enough for it to display any data.
PS I'm amazed by the quick response to this and the number of responses. Many more to any question that I've posted in ubuntu or linux mint forums. So big well done to all you folks and thank you
Task killer will indicate the programs that are using processing cycles, but i'm coming to the line of thinking that memory plays a huge part in this aswell. It also highlights the point that the hero needed a bit more juice under the hood, unless they can optimize the hell out of the OS, have more memory or and reduce your amount if apps on the first generation of android phones (and i doubt that will make much of a difference) running a few tasks in the background are likely to cause problems.
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Sorry to get pedantic but Linux isn't essentially Android - what you mean is that Android is an operating system that is based on (or even is) linux. Furthermore I have no idea how linux systems manage RAM and I've never had to. None of my laptops suffer from untimely battery drop or from lag.
What I want to try and do is make sure that I can go a day or two without having to plug in my phone. I could take my old Nokia away for a weekend and not need to worry about taking a charger because I knew that with full charge Friday morning it would easily last till Monday.
If task killers aren't the solution, then what should be done.
I think you may be right. I'm not sure if I want my phone to be larger, but that may be the price I have to pay.
The other solution, and I am going to try before splashing out on a bulky battery is to buy a spare battery and keep it in my wallet for emergencies.
If I install the app that lets me store all my store card bar codes onto my phone then I can remove my store cards from my wallet and replace with battery.
I'll keep you posted as to how successful this is.
I'm no techie and learnt something by reading this thread but reading the above quote wouldn't a task killer help you do just that?
Yes, and for the purposes of troubleshooting a task killer is useful.
However, most people just use task killers to end all apps that they think shouldn't be running anymore, rather than actually trying to find the one that's causing an issue in the first place.
This is another interesting thread, as I learn more about my phone.
I downloaded Taskiller, as recommended in the sticky at the start of this section of the forum, together with a number of other apps.
The phone ran slowly very quickly after they were installed.
I noted from the 'manage application' task that there were some quite large (relatively) apps.
I removed some.
I have now let Taskiller work in its auto mode and things seem to have speeded up again.
Um...why not kill one app at a time and then see if there's an improvement after each one?
I tried reading your post but didn't really understand it :S
But like I said in the post.. after you kill that 1 app... you will be like OMG THIS APP WAS CAUSING THE LAGG because obviously killing any app when there are many open will result in memory being free'd up followed by the phone becoming faster.
So unless (like I said in my post above) you quit every app that's open then select an app individually and see if it is making the phone lagg could you properly (scientifically) single out one app that causes lagg.
Did that make sense?
But like I said in the post.. after you kill that 1 app... you will be like OMG THIS APP WAS CAUSING THE LAGG because obviously killing any app when there are many open will result in memory being free'd up followed by the phone becoming faster.
No! That's exactly the point...free memory does not equal everything else being faster!! That is not how things work on Android. Free memory = wasted memory!
Even if lots of apps have been opened, once memory runs low new apps will simply replace "older" ones (that is, those that have been asleep the longest).
No! That's exactly the point...free memory does not equal everything else being faster!! That is not how things work on Android. Free memory = wasted memory!
Even if lots of apps have been opened, once memory runs low new apps will simply replace "older" ones (that is, those that have been asleep the longest).
At least, that's my understanding of it.
As I have said in my previous post(s) I do not disagree with the ideology that Android/Linux has good memory management. But the very fact that the phone is more responsive and smoother when processes / apps are killed via taskmanager do little to support the claim. May be on paper.. but .. visually...not in this case IMHO.
Another thing that has to remembered is in a multitasking system there isn't really real multitasking, just process slicing. Even if an app is doing nothing it still maybe checking things or doing something in the background. The OS has to jump between these tasks constantly. Less programs running less jumping , how that affects the system is hard to tell.
But as i said before in previous post I seem to notice when I feel the need to to use taskkiller and check the memory values it almost always seem to be at around the 23mb mark.
It would be interesting to know what exactly is going on. linux may purported to work it a certain way and though that may work well for Pc's doesn't mean the same is true for mobiles.
So is it memory, multitasking processor slicing, bad app programming or a combination of the three?
Ok I've just got rid of my taskpanel. And seriously Woah!!!
Before today just about the best I got on moderate use (little if any wifi or gps) was 20 hours.
Today with no taskpanel and no Graphical Battery Stats Monitor I've just gone 24 hours and still have 70% battery left.
My misgivings are that it takes an age to open up the market and a few other apps.
If android / linux uses 99% of the memory, whatever amount is in the system, then why do I have different "available memory" readings from time to time? Sometimes I have 60mb free, other times I have 30mb free.
I know nothing and am not saying the people espousing the 99% theory are wrong, I just do not understand. Please educate me.
NYL, that is because it is a running system, linux if I may rephrase attempts to use all the memory, but this simply is not possible as the system is runnig if that makes sense.
you can read this to understand further, by the way Android uses the 2.6.xx kernel
of Linux
NYL, that is because it is a running system, linux if I may rephrase attempts to use all the memory, but this simply is not possible as the system is runnig if that makes sense.
you can read this to understand further, by the way Android uses the 2.6.xx kernel
of Linux
Hey guys, I've been reading up on the forum as to what is the best/your favourite task killer/manager thingy,
basically just want to stop background tasks that stay open and consume cpu and battery.
what do you think is the best? been running advanced task manager free and that was great but had to reset phone cos HTC sense and system kept force closing, so i think that might have something to do with it.
@Steelie, I have been running a couple of different ones to get a feel for it. Advanced Task Manager Free is what I am using, but for the issues your having, what you have to do (and this is with most task managers) is after you install it, reset your phone, start any apps you would usually want running (just go in and back out of them) and then open ATM from the All Programs screen, and click every app running and select "Exclude", then do the same under the Service tab.
Now anytime you wanna free your mem without messing up what you usually run (or what's vital) you can now happily hit that kill widget on your home screen
There should really be a sticky for this or it's probably in the tips and tricks section because it's what you should do with any task killer.
Hey guys, I've been reading up on the forum as to what is the best/your favourite task killer/manager thingy,
In my case - none.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steelie
basically just want to stop background tasks that stay open and consume cpu and battery.
Have you verified they consume significant amounts of your CPU and battery or just guessing and simply don't like the fact they're there? If the latter, I would recommend you to just get over the fact that someone smart designed it that way and there's a reason. If former, just find out which app doesn't play nice and get rid of it. If it ain't broken... But that's me.
Last edited by Zbig; April 13th, 2010 at 07:41 AM.
Search the for the "task killer thread" The android platform does better without the programs installed.. I was a nonbeliever until i actually tried it for a while. Phone actually operates smoother. Check it out bro.
The to-kill-or-not-to-kill app debate seems to go round and round, with no discernible proof of which is the best way.
I use the free TasKiller app, which you can set to ignore certain apps (mine is set to ignore all the startup apps, assuming that they are necessary and Android can manage them on its own) and has a handy 1x1 widget to kill all other apps, which I use only if things slow down.
This to me seems like the best of both worlds. Android can manage most apps the way it wants to and I have the ability to kill all other, potential phone-slowing, apps with one tap of the screen.
Whilst I agree that using a task killer aggressively is counterproductive there is still a need for one to kill the odd laggy app (stock browser comes to mind).
I personally use ‘Process Manager’ mainly because it’s quick and easy for killing those apps like the stock browser that do not have a quit button and cause my home screens to lag.
Device(s): HTC Hero (FroydVillain),
Sony Ericsson Xperia Arc
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I agree with bluenova: you shouldnt need one on a day-to-day basis, but it is occasionally useful in certain scenarios (i use it to kill some of the crap that loads on bootup, e.g. footprints).
I've found Taskpanel X to be pretty good for this purpose.
If youre going to install one then you should set up an extensive ignore list for it, and any auto-kill functionality is a definite no-no IMO.
__________________ Sony Ericsson Xperia Arc : GiffGaff : UK
Last edited by daveybaby; April 13th, 2010 at 12:04 PM.
It lets you control how aggressive android's own task killer is. I set it to optimum when I downloaded it and have never had to bother with task killers again
I like Auto Process Killer the best. The free version even includes Auto Killing but the paid version auto starts on reboot and has a great kill now widget with status information!
Question: What's the best taskkiller (manager) for the HTC phone (or any linux based phone)?
Answers:
Task managers usually do more harm than good.
The reason is, Linux attempts to use all memory (RAM) no matter what, [even if you have 64GB verse 128MB]
and Free memory = wasted memory.
Lag is not caused by lack of memory. Lag is caused by a faulty app (Ex. apps made for better hardware, apps with faulty coding, apps that uses too much cpu that with faulty coding, etc…)
The same goes with battery life. The battery is not effected by memory, but by CPU usage.
So technically, a task manager could help troubleshoot the faulty app that's wasting power or causing a lag.
Such a task that could cause such a huge decrease in the battery (according to bzzzzz) is "taskpanel". Per bzzzzz, before removing "taskpanel" the HTC battery would last 20hrs with little wifi and gps usage. The next day [after removing taskpanel] he went 24hours with still 70% remaining.
And lastly, multitasking is not multitasking. It's more correctly "process splicing". This means the OS jumps from app to app very quickly, not simultaneously.
So the remaining question is:
Does more running apps = More OS jumps? If so does this effect CPU usage? Does CPU usage effect lag? [i know it effects battery life] If it does, then this post will be completely wasted [although i learn a lot!]. Why?
Answer: Task killers end apps. Multitasking causes OS jumps. Less apps = Less OS jumps = less CPU usage = better battery life, maybe even less lag.
Please help, I just would like to know if my theory is correct! =]
[off the subject, but i'm learning Italian in 90 days. Wanna follow me? ask and ill post a link if its not agains rules =]
None.
They tend to cause more problems than they solve.
I uninstalled the task manager I was using and noticed absolutely no difference in battery life or lag.
Fair point, i disagree to a degree, the autotask killer does speed up my phone at times and task killer is usefull if you've jumped through a large number of apps in quick succession (looking for a game you feel like playing....)
What i am looking for is a log of apps auto killer to let me know what tends to open from time to time thus allowing me to weed out apps that slow the phone
For tech lovers dreaming of a magical phone, HTC's 3rd Android Phone - the HTC Hero - seems poised to rescue the masses from mobile phone boredom. The design is a more sleek, sexy version of the HTC Dream and HTC Magic and both hardware and sof... Read More
Best task manager/killer
May I present to you;
