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Old July 29th, 2009, 10:09 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default HTC Hero and PAID apps problem...?

Hi all,

This is really aimed at users on the Orange UK network, but it seems like there might be a problem with accessing *some* paid apps in the market. I previously posted about a problem I had getting to view any paid apps, and Jules kindly helped out by prompting me to set up a Google Checkout account.

This allowed me to see *some* paid apps, but one or two I was after still refused to show up. After a bit of digging about it may be that this may be the problem (post from android market help forum)

"When I try to download paid Apps only some show up (not all) (id. Documents to go) in the market. Also when I try to download my purchaced Apps (from a previous phone), it says download failed. When i try to search for the apps they cannot be found. When i search for the same app on my wifes g1 it shows up. The mytouch is running the out of the box android 1.5. Anyone have any ideas?"

The reply was as follows...

"Many have reported this. Yes, seemingly you have no access to 'copy protected' apps in market. Most paid apps are marked 'copy protected' (few free ones are also flagged so).
On a dev phone (ADP1) these were not allowed. Though a few posts claim that this applies to all unlocked phones, I won't be sure.
Is yours unlocked? Otherwise if many of you talk to your operator things might speed up to give you access to these."


Although the query was about a MyTouch 3G, it seems to be exactly the problem I am having. It may be that for some reason the android market is seeing the Orange UK branded HTC Hero as 'unlocked', and thus blocking access to 'copy protected apps'.

Jules has already confirmed that he cannot see "PicSay Pro" from his phone. Could I ask any other Orange users to search for the following paid apps to see if they can access them. Each has a free version which is available but the 'pro' or paid versions aren't. (I'm sure there are others too)

PicSay Pro
Note Everything Pro
Labyrinth

I may be something to do with Orange's network, or it maybe a problem with the Hero not being a 'Google Experience' phone, and hence the android market thinking it is 'unlocked'.

Either way if it is a widespread problem I will contact Orange, HTC and Google to see if it can be sorted.

Thanks for the help.
J.

PS: Just thought, now that T-Mobile seem to have released their HTC Hero, maybe a T-Mo customer could also check and that might narrow it down to being the phone rather than the carrier, or if they can access the apps, it is an Orange network problem.

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Old July 29th, 2009, 11:35 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Small update,

There seems to be plenty of threads about this on the android market forums and it may be that 'copy protected' apps - which is MOST paid and SOME free ones are blocked because Orange is not a member of the Open Handset Alliance.

Seems that Google have recently put in place an anti-piracy policy that if your handset is a) a developer one, b) unlocked or c) being used through non-OHA carrier then you cannot access 'copy protected' apps.

There seems to be quite an uproar about this and petitions to get Google to change the policy as (as is pointed out) it won't stop your average pirate anyway and only genuine users, such as those of us on Orange are suffering as a result.

Ho Hum....

J.
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Old July 30th, 2009, 04:55 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Hi, I've experienced this problem too, I'm on Orange and have a Hero.

The title I wanted to buy was "Robo Defense", there's a demo version - "Robo Defense Free". Searching fails to find the full version. My friend on T-mobile (G1) has no issue in finding it.

I just did a search for PicSay Pro and could only find a free version of it. Seems to be the exact same problem.

I was under the impression that it might be something to do with the issue raised here:

UK user cannot download US Paid Apps! Help! (only UK made apps) - Android Market Help

But your reason sounds much more likely since I can actually see some apps priced in dollars.

Have you spoken to anyone official about it yet? I'd call Orange but for the fear of speaking to someone who has no idea what I'm talking about and ending up explaining the problem over and over. I might fire off an email or something, can you reveal your sources? Also, where are the petitions?

Thanks!
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Old July 30th, 2009, 05:11 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Yes i have the same issue.

Something to add to the list...
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Old July 30th, 2009, 05:24 AM   #5 (permalink)
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@Wahwah, chrisjenx

Thanks for confirming you have the same issue. From reading more and more threads that are appearing at the android market forums - my source as asked for is...

Technical Help - Android Market Help

it seems that this problem is indeed related to Google's new anti-piracy strategy. Basically if your using a dev phone, an unlocked phone or one from a carrier who is not part of the open handset alliance then you cannot get at 'copy protected' apps.

Apparently this covers most paid apps and some free ones. That explains why some paid apps can be seen.

The only two ways around this that I can see are

1) for Google to remove this policy - which seems to be demanded at the above forums, or
2) for Orange to join the OHA - HTC are alteady members so it's not their fault. Vodafone and T-Mobile are listed as members which is why Wahwah's friend doesn't have the same problem.

The petitions for Google to change their policy can be found in a thread at the above forum.

For me it's not that big a deal, or at least not until a paid app comes along that I *REALLY* want. At the moment it's more of an annoyance.

I've not contacted Orange yet as I was waiting for a few replies to make sure I wasn't the only one with the problem. I'm not sure how to go about doing so, as you said Wahwah, I would imagine that a lot of the support staff won't be able to understand/help - it would take someone at a senior level in the company to get them to join the OHA.

Hopefully if Orange release more Google phones as they have stated, then they will join the OHA at some point.

Anyway, I'll do some more research then fire off an email to see what can be done.

Cheers,
J.
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Old July 30th, 2009, 07:44 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Well Orange should be part of the OHA as a rule of thumb. only reason i would think they don't want to be is if they want to make their own apps which they want to exclusively push to their android phones... which kind of defeats the point of the platform.

Maybe their in talks. But it seems very stupid if they don't want to join.
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Old July 30th, 2009, 09:57 AM   #7 (permalink)
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This is all a bit stupid. If Google want to lock out Orange or if Orange don't want to get into bed properly with Google it just means that we Orange subscribers are potentially going to be unable to get proper use out of our phones. Eventually there'll be some kind of App that comes along that everyone with an Android phone will declare to be the reason to have one and we'll be unable to join in.

I suggest you email gadget/phone websites to get this flagged up, they'll probably be happy to report it and it'll put pressure on Orange to get it sorted. Tell your friends, etc.
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Old July 30th, 2009, 11:01 AM   #8 (permalink)
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If spotify is blocked on the Orange Handset then that will be the killer, and Orange might aswell kiss there contracts good by as the main reason I got an Android phone is because i could dev/use spotify (when released) im sure with some pressure they'll fold. Or loose more money, which they seem to be good at.
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Old July 30th, 2009, 11:15 AM   #9 (permalink)
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I just sent out some mails to some gadget sites, hopefully they'll report on the issue.
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Old July 30th, 2009, 01:40 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I've had a reply from one website who are looking into the story and I've made a group.

If you'd like to join it's here:

Android Orange | Google Groups
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Old July 30th, 2009, 07:36 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Apparently it's a Hero thing... T-mobile users are beginning to report the same thing.

This might be what we get for not having got a full "Google Experience" after all...
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Old July 30th, 2009, 08:31 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Any word on sim-free, unlocked ones - the white ones? I'll be gutted if I can't use most paid apps.

I'll report ASAP, fingers crossed that'll be mid morning - 9 hours time.
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Old July 31st, 2009, 03:15 AM   #13 (permalink)
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I have a Sim Free Hero on O2 and its ok with paid apps as much as I can tell. No problems encountered yet.
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Old July 31st, 2009, 06:25 AM   #14 (permalink)
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I don't think it's a "most" apps problem, it's specifically a problem with apps which are copy protected, which doesn't automatically mean all paid apps.

I'm curious to know if you can find the apps we've listed in this thread, have a search on marketplace and see if you can find these:

PicSay Pro
Note Everything Pro
Labyrinth
Robo Defense

Note that there will be demo versions, but there should be a second, paid for app too, that's the one we're looking for.
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Old July 31st, 2009, 11:29 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Had to call Orange up today to remove Orange Safeguard which was restricting my access to websites which don't feature rudeness at all. I mentioned the App problem at the end, immediately felt a bit embarrassed when I had to say "Robo Defense" out loud but the guy said they'd look into it. As to whether I'll get anything back I don't know, but I thought I'd keep you all posted.

Also, a couple of phone sites have contacted me about this issue and seem to be researching the story so it could end up being written about.
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Old July 31st, 2009, 06:55 PM   #16 (permalink)
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I've had no problems finding the commercial versions of the listed apps:
PicSay Pro
Note Everything Pro
Labyrinth
Robo Defense

I haven't purchased any of them, but they appear, as do their free versions.

Sim-free (white) HTC Hero on 3 UK (PAYG).
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Old August 1st, 2009, 06:03 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I have the same issue with the app Musical Pro. It doesn't appear in the Android Market.

HTC Hero / Orange (Spain)
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Old August 1st, 2009, 07:57 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Another frustrated Orange customer here. Tried over a dozen apps tonight, both paid and free, and every one of them wasn't available via Market (but are listed on the web site and AndroLib). These included File Droid Lite, DroidLive, A Online Radio amongst others. Oh yeah, and defo no full version of Robo Defense either Wahwah 'cos I made a point of checking.
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Old August 2nd, 2009, 12:03 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Heh, thanks for looking, Slug. Good to get updates to the thread. I think we should make a list if what's missing, as it arises and ask Orange about it, at least we'll have specific examples to give. They haven't called me back since I asked so I'll chase that up next week.
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Old August 2nd, 2009, 01:43 AM   #20 (permalink)
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I should be getting the Hero on Tuesday running on Vodafone and I will let you know about the app situation.
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Old August 2nd, 2009, 07:20 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wahwah View Post
I think we should make a list if what's missing, as it arises and ask Orange about it, at least we'll have specific examples to give. They haven't called me back since I asked so I'll chase that up next week.
I'm just off the phone to Orange CS myself. I explained the problem and, although the advisor hadn't a scooby what I was on about at first, she quickly pulled up the blurb about Market and agreed that there's an issue that needs addressing. I've been promised that it will be looked into, and I've also got a contact number for HTC which I'll call tomorrow and see if I can get more info. Tbh though I think the buck is going to stop with Google....
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Old August 2nd, 2009, 10:14 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mansn View Post
I should be getting the Hero on Tuesday running on Vodafone and I will let you know about the app situation.
Really appreciate it if you did give us an update as I'm about to be in the same situation as you.
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Old August 2nd, 2009, 10:44 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Default Apps Issue

T-mobile uk contract -

PicSay Pro
Note Everything Pro
Labyrinth
Robo Defense

Can confirm I am only able to see the demo versions of all of these no full versions. unable to even find Labyrinth
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Old August 3rd, 2009, 07:47 AM   #24 (permalink)
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I've now spoken to an advisor at HTC Europe and basically they're placing the blame on "incompatibility due to customised software". Sounds like a load of guff to me, especially as the issue occurs with phones supplied by official partner providers e.g. Orange and T-mobile. I've got a reference number and the advisor took my email address so maybe I'll hear something back in a few days..... got a feeling it's going to be a game of 'problem ping-pong' though.
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Old August 3rd, 2009, 07:57 AM   #25 (permalink)
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If that's the reason they're giving then surely we should be able to get our phones debranded/have htc's generic firmware applied?

Do HTC have service centres/approved engineers? It would be good to get the go ahead to have them replace the firmware, if everyone can agree that there's a problem (demonstrably there is) then who could argue against doing that?

EDIT: Just checked their website, Malaysia seems to be your best bet for an HTC service centre. If you're in the area, why not pop in... hoho.
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Old August 3rd, 2009, 10:35 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Hi all,

I work for Orange UK. Just wanted to drop you a line to say we are looking into these issues and working with HTC to resolve.

Will update you when I have further info.

Conor
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Old August 3rd, 2009, 12:21 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Good work that man! Thanks for posting, it's good to hear.

Everyone else: I think this proves that moaning gets stuff done. So let's moan like never before.

Also, the full version of Colorix is about 85p at the moment, worth a go I thought.
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Old August 3rd, 2009, 01:54 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConorfromOrange View Post
Hi all,

I work for Orange UK. Just wanted to drop you a line to say we are looking into these issues and working with HTC to resolve.

Will update you when I have further info.

Conor
That's brilliant! Thanks for the update. Let us know as soon as you find out anything new :-)
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Old August 3rd, 2009, 02:26 PM   #29 (permalink)
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@Conor: thanks for letting us know that someone does care.

p.s. confirmed that a colleague's Hero, on a new Orange contract via some online dealer I can't remember the name of, can access apps on Market that mine can't. His handset is black and unbranded.
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Old August 4th, 2009, 05:29 AM   #30 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard diddly View Post
T-mobile uk contract -

PicSay Pro
Note Everything Pro
Labyrinth
Robo Defense

Can confirm I am only able to see the demo versions of all of these no full versions. unable to even find Labyrinth
Same here, I'm with T-mo and can't find any of these apps in the market, only the free/demo versions. Hope this gets sorted soon!
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Old August 5th, 2009, 05:27 AM   #31 (permalink)
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Something has been done somewhere, as I have access to a heck of a lot more in Market today than I had on Monday! The paid version of Power Manager is now available (and was purchased without problems), and FileDroid Lite and DroidLive were also available for d/l.

@Wahwah: Robo Defense (both versions) now also shows as available.

@jeremyabel: PicSay Pro ditto.

This on Orange, btw.
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Old August 5th, 2009, 06:34 AM   #32 (permalink)
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@Slug,

Thanks for the heads up, I have been away for a few days and had given up checking, I now have PicSay Pro bought and working - recommended BTW.

@Wahwah,

Thanks for making some noise with various android sites - seems to have brought it to the attention of those who needed to know. The couple of tries I had with Orange (email and phone call) before I went away got exactly nowhere!

@ConnorFromOrange,

If this was your doing, then thank you for the help! I stated in my original post that it was nothing more than an annoyance, but since then I found a few apps that I really wanted, so I'm glad this has been sorted. It's refreshing to see people from big companies come into the forums and help to sort problems. Hope you'll hang around in case we have other issues?

Now to spend some of my money on a few apps!

Cheers,

J.
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Old August 5th, 2009, 08:21 AM   #33 (permalink)
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Just got my Hero. Tested out a few of the apps named in this thread. All working fine and dandy :-D
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Old August 5th, 2009, 09:09 AM   #34 (permalink)
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Those apps still not showing up for me, I'm on T-mobile, anyone else on T-mobile tried searching for any of these apps yet??

Also can someone post some QR codes with links to the apps (like they have on the androlib or arket websites) so we can search some more apps to see if they show up??

Cheers
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Old August 5th, 2009, 09:38 AM   #35 (permalink)
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Brilliant news that Orange seem to be on the case. Thanks to anyone who helped things along and even if you weren't directly involved, thanks to Connor for the info.

Spider, I don't know how to get qr codes up bit if my experience is anything to go by it's a case of them showing up in searches or not. I guess you're best off talking to T-mobile since it seems to be resolveable by networks.

Edit: btw, thanks for checking for Robo Defense, got it installed now :-)
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Old August 5th, 2009, 10:55 AM   #36 (permalink)
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I mailed T-Mobile UK about this problem last week and got this reply

"Thanks for your email Paul, telling me that there are lot of applications which are missing from the Android Marketplace on the G2 touch and asking us to fix it. I'll certainly look into this for you. Paul, T-Mobile does not support the Android Market and Google is only responsible for the Android Market functionality.
So you'll need to refer to the Market Help Centre on the handset with in the Market menu: Select Market > Press Menu Button > Select Help?
Thanks again for your email Paul , I'm sure once you contact the Android Market this will be fixed.
If you need any further help then please feel free to email me, I'll be glad to help you. Or simply visit our help and support section by clicking here.
Kind regards


XXX
Customer Services Email Team
T-Mobile"

Obviously Orange were capable of fixing the problem so T-Mobile should be able as well but a reply like that claiming that it's nothing to do with them doesn;t exactly fill me with confidence.
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