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Old February 19th, 2013, 06:52 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Camera (and motion video) talk - the Ultrapixel and more (tips/discussion)

The new 4.3 megapixel camera has 300% more light-gathering than conventional cameras and double last year's One X.

This means less digital noise but less to zoom in on and blow up - an interesting trade-off.

Thought we could use a thread to discuss that as well as the various features.

Also - image stabilization comes to the front facing camera (FFC) - another first so far as I know.

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Old February 20th, 2013, 03:39 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Camera talk - the Ultrapixel and more

Personally I'll always applaud any manufacturer prepared to challenge the megapixel marketing myth. I have an ancient 2MP Canon lying around the house that still takes better pictures than most 8MP phones, and am regularly disappointed by phone cameras that reduce all low-contrast detail to mush with a mixture of compression and noise reduction. So whether this lives up to the claims or not they are in my favour for trying.

I suspect that most people don't crop phone camera shots heavily, and I'd guess that most are viewed only on the phone screen (2MP even on this device) or social networking sites that limit the image size further. So I think HTC are right that 4MP is good enough for most people's real needs, though there will always be the odd time when you'd prefer more.

Will they be able to persuade a public who are being fed the megapixel myth by everyone else?
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Old February 20th, 2013, 05:13 AM   #3 (permalink)
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The most interesting thing is the camera: 2 micron pixels as opposed to 1.4, allowing them to capture 300% (i.e. nearly 2 stops) more light. Great to see someone actually putting their money where their megapixels-aren't-everything mouth is.
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Old February 20th, 2013, 01:11 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Camera talk - the Ultrapixel and more (Keep thread on topic)

That's per side. One article claimed that they were square so the area difference was 4 vs 1.96 sq. microns. Either way, a nice change.

For those unfamiliar with f-stops - http://www.uscoles.com/fstop.htm

Having an f/2.0 setup is great, the One X proved that.

I got big improvements with my LTEvo by rooting and using a modified camera that reduced the stock jpeg compression (bigger files, less noise and color artifacts) and that also included a 20 Mbps video rate.

If they do this right, they won't need to overcompress for file size, and I believe that the AnandTech article said that the stock One is already unthrottled to 20 Mbps for video.

The Ultrapixel marketing doesn't bother me. I don't care for it, but it doesn't bother me. Hopefully this camera produces photos that will dispel the megapixel myth with pictures instead of math.
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Old February 20th, 2013, 02:32 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Well I am the last person you will ever see walking around with a dedicated camera but I do love taking pictures with my phone so I really hope this camera's performance lives up to the hype.
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Old February 20th, 2013, 03:29 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I haven't ever been a real big picture taker, though recently, I've gotten more into it. The pics on the 3VO are OK, at best, though I had Viper3D flashed and REALLY liked the panoramic pics (they made for GREAT scrolling wallpapers). While trying to video my girls at their cheer comp a couple of weeks ago, I discovered how weak my "camera" was. So now, I'm determined to get a decent one. I'm keeping my eye on this thread!
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Old February 20th, 2013, 04:02 PM   #7 (permalink)
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The One X camera was a _big_ leap over the 3vo, and then a leap again with custom software.

If this lives up to the claims, you're going to be more than pleasantly surprised.
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Old February 20th, 2013, 04:20 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Camera talk - the Ultrapixel and more (Keep thread on topic)

Quote:
Originally Posted by EarlyMon View Post
The One X camera was a _big_ leap over the 3vo, and then a leap again with custom software.

If this lives up to the claims, you're going to be more than pleasantly surprised.
Agreed. Htcs recent camera advances rock
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Old February 20th, 2013, 05:49 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Ok, hold the freaking phone.

At about 25 minutes into the launch-day video (in the reviews thread), they compare the 2 micron/side UltraPixel to "conventional" phone camera pixels of 1.13 microns/side - or 1.27 sq. microns vs. 4 sq. microns.

That's where the 300% comes from - it's 200% compared to the One X.

OP updated accordingly.
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Old February 20th, 2013, 08:15 PM   #10 (permalink)
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here is a bunch of info on the new camera HTC ZOE™ CAMERA WITH ULTRAPIXELS

on the left side of that site you can look through the menus
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Old February 22nd, 2013, 02:14 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Some of the features of the "Zoe" thing look great, the sequence shot thing looks useful in creating interesting pictures, and some of the editing tools look very useful as well, looking forward to trying it out when i get mine.
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Old February 22nd, 2013, 12:03 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I've seen these floating around the net already but this site was the first I saw in high/full rez.... Not bad for a very low light event. I was watching some vids of the event and given the light movement and low light areas these are pretty darn good.

The comparison with a Nexus 4 is nice and the over all picture size is a lot bigger than what some sites believe they should be? I was on pocketnow and one article suggested that it would only take 2560×1600 photos, but these are 3264 x 2448 which is a pleasant surprise.
***** My mistake I was looking at the Nexus 4 image details ******

anyways here is the link... HTC One Photo and Video Samples Available Online - Softpedia
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Old February 22nd, 2013, 12:43 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Default Re: Camera talk - the Ultrapixel and more (Keep thread on topic)

2560x1600 = 4,096,000, aka 4 MP
3264x2448 = 7,990,292, aka 8 MP

Something is off there.

PS - I checked info on two of the pix on that site, they came back with: 2688px × 1520px
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Old February 22nd, 2013, 02:44 PM   #14 (permalink)
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HTC One vs. iPhone 5 camera shootout - Crave - Mobile Phones - CNET Asia

Rather than zoom to 100% to see the detail loss he complains about - zoom both of the polka-dot girl pictures to the same physical size (iow - the usual browser default) and look at the details in the background, especially the blue accents on the housing in the northeast (sorta middle upper right) of the girl/statue.

HTC wins.

As for final loss of detail, I'd really like to see what this does with less compression, something I'll expect from the dev community.

All in all - worth a look at the article. (Asia Cnet is so much better than ours, seriously.)
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Old February 22nd, 2013, 05:01 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Yeah, at common size the HTC at least holds its own in all of those and wins most. You can pixel-peep details (e.g. the dress fabric in the portrait, where the iPhone wins), but even at full res it's not always clear cut (the iPhone has really mushed most of the grasses in the rooftop shot).

Not bad at all.
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Old February 22nd, 2013, 05:25 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EarlyMon View Post
HTC One vs. iPhone 5 camera shootout - Crave - Mobile Phones - CNET Asia

Rather than zoom to 100% to see the detail loss he complains about - zoom both of the polka-dot girl pictures to the same physical size (iow - the usual browser default) and look at the details in the background, especially the blue accents on the housing in the northeast (sorta middle upper right) of the girl/statue.

HTC wins.

As for final loss of detail, I'd really like to see what this does with less compression, something I'll expect from the dev community.

All in all - worth a look at the article. (Asia Cnet is so much better than ours, seriously.)
I really do like the HTC photos better overall. I do miss not being able to "zoom in" more because I have gotten used to taking photos and cropping out what I don't need instead of getting in closer to the subject, but those photos full size none zoomed, the HTC photos are very clear. The only down side I see from the 2 is that the iPhone tends to have more things "in focus" where the HTC seems to have more of a focal point?
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Old February 22nd, 2013, 05:35 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Default Re: Camera talk - the Ultrapixel and more (Keep thread on topic)

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I really do like the HTC photos better overall. I do miss not being able to "zoom in" more because I have gotten used to taking photos and cropping out what I don't need instead of getting in closer to the subject, but those photos full size none zoomed, the HTC photos are very clear. The only down side I see from the 2 is that the iPhone tends to have more things "in focus" where the HTC seems to have more of a focal point?
Yep. We don't know if that's software (prerelease), software (compression artifacts), hardware (the iPhone lens is tops), or software/hardware (image stabilization at prerelease).

Point being, some of that may be addressable.

Also, three is a depth of field (focus range) trade-off with an f/2.0 setup. I can say with confidence that that's not an issue with mine.

Tell you what though - I'll decide on something that I can shoot as a reference, and show you the difference between standard HTC compression and and what happens without it. I think two pictures will be worth a thousand words on what I've been going on about.
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Old February 23rd, 2013, 04:32 AM   #18 (permalink)
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A buddy at work, a long time Nokia user, sent me this link yesterday
Its good to see some actual photos and comparisons coming out and not just hearing more marketing hyperbole from the press conference.

Cameras: HTC One vs Nokia Lumia 920 - Neowin
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Old February 23rd, 2013, 09:36 AM   #19 (permalink)
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I'd like to see the Nokia comparison done with more info. In the first, the cameras are pointed in different directions, greatly affecting the lighting. I'm not sure how to draw comparisons.

In the second, the humans seem more naturally colored on the One, but I don't know how to gauge his praise of vibrant colors because they were evidently under colored lights. Anyway, check out the building color outside, right background.

In the third, I'd conclude that the Nokia took a longer exposure. That one the Nokia shot looks far sharper to me and much more pleasing.

Fun comparison, thanks Pyro!
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Old February 23rd, 2013, 10:21 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Anandtech have just posted a short article on the design of the One's camera. No images, though includes a few comments on the results.

AnandTech - How the HTC One's Camera Bucks the Trend in Smartphone Imaging
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Old February 23rd, 2013, 03:55 PM   #21 (permalink)
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For all (ok, maybe a lot) of those pesky tech questions on cameras -

AnandTech - Understanding Camera Optics & Smartphone Camera Trends, A Presentation by Brian Klug
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Old February 23rd, 2013, 06:12 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Here is an analysis of the HTC One vs. iPhone 5 photos snapped by CNET Asia done by Gsmarena:

http://www.gsmarena.com/htc_one_vs_iphone_5_camera_shootout_surfaces_we_co mpare-news-5590.php

Basic summary:

They up and downsize photos to compare the amount of detail in the images and the effects of compression & noise suppression software on them. Conclusion: No significant advantage with the HTC One camera, though the sample images were not ideal.
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Old February 23rd, 2013, 06:21 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Default Re: Camera talk - the Ultrapixel and more (Keep thread on topic)

Biased rehash of the photos used here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EarlyMon View Post
HTC One vs. iPhone 5 camera shootout - Crave - Mobile Phones - CNET Asia

Rather than zoom to 100% to see the detail loss he complains about - zoom both of the polka-dot girl pictures to the same physical size (iow - the usual browser default) and look at the details in the background, especially the blue accents on the housing in the northeast (sorta middle upper right) of the girl/statue.

HTC wins.

As for final loss of detail, I'd really like to see what this does with less compression, something I'll expect from the dev community.

All in all - worth a look at the article. (Asia Cnet is so much better than ours, seriously.)
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Old February 24th, 2013, 05:00 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EarlyMon View Post
I'd like to see the Nokia comparison done with more info. In the first, the cameras are pointed in different directions, greatly affecting the lighting. I'm not sure how to draw comparisons.

In the second, the humans seem more naturally colored on the One, but I don't know how to gauge his praise of vibrant colors because they were evidently under colored lights. Anyway, check out the building color outside, right background.

In the third, I'd conclude that the Nokia took a longer exposure. That one the Nokia shot looks far sharper to me and much more pleasing.
I was noticing this stuff too. It would be nice if all comparisons were of as close to exactly the same shot as possible and included extra info, even if it was put under the {hide} tags so only interested people had to look at it if they wanted. Some EXIF data and a summary of the settings used within the phone's camera application? Maybe even some external light meter readings?

Its quite alot to ask for for an impromptu camera comparison though, especially from most unconcerned journalists, all at a press conference event like this.

Hopefully we will see some better comparisons, with more consistency and some supporting data, coming up before release
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Old February 28th, 2013, 01:35 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Default HTC ONE ZOE & Camera Video Demonstration

I looked around & didn't find this posted elsewhere in ONEDERLAND,so,here ya go,from CNET:

HTC One Zoe mode and camera software in video walkthrough | CNET TV | Video Product Reviews, CNET Podcasts, Tech Shows, Live CNET Video
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Old February 28th, 2013, 03:53 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KOLIO View Post
I looked around & didn't find this posted elsewhere in ONEDERLAND,so,here ya go,from CNET:

HTC One Zoe mode and camera software in video walkthrough | CNET TV | Video Product Reviews, CNET Podcasts, Tech Shows, Live CNET Video
"ONEDERLAND" why didn't I think of that?!?!? I love it!

If the ZOE software comes through like the promos are saying, this ONE might be the phone of my wife's dreams (she'll probably like Blinkfeed). And definitely an upgrade over my 3VO (3D??? what's that??? )
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Old March 1st, 2013, 11:11 PM   #27 (permalink)
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On this website it says its a 13 megapixel. On other websites it says there is no megapixel count. On most websites it says anything from four to five megapixels. All websites say the camera is great. I could see why there is confusion, because they completely changed the game (which I think was needed), but could someone please explain this a little bit more to me
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Old March 2nd, 2013, 12:07 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Default Re: Camera talk - the Ultrapixel and more (Keep thread on topic)

It's fan comments gone wild.

In one slide, HTC showed a picture of a Bayer filter. That was by the marketing guys, and it was a concept graphic to sell the camera. I expect that that was a first for many people.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayer_filter

It's a 4.3 MP camera, according to good sources (4, 4.3, whatever, same thing for marketing).

Eager fans looked at the Bayer filter picture and decided somehow that it had 4.3 MP each of red, blue and green and 4.3MP times 3 colors = 12.9, aka 13 MP.

The math and the rest of the Ultrapixel briefing confirms that it's a 4 MP camera.
With every new phone feature, the blogosphere scrambles until fan assertions become facts, whether true or false.

That's my opinion.
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Old March 2nd, 2013, 07:15 PM   #29 (permalink)
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How does the HTC One camera compare to the HTC One X+ camera?
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Old March 2nd, 2013, 09:11 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Not easy to say from specs: the One X+ camera is 8M smaller pixels and a slower lens, the One is 4.3M larger pixels and a faster lens (in the context of photography, "slower" means "narrower maximum aperture" i.e. less light to the sensor in low light conditions or when focussing).

But there's always more to it - sensor capabilities, lens quality and the image processing algorithms. So as I say, you can't tell from the spec sheets. We need to wait until proper tests are available. My own guess, from what I've seen, is that you might get marginally less detail if you pixel peep (zoom to full resolution of the camera), but will probably get a nicer image at camera or computer screen resolution. It then also depends on what independent developers can do with it (if you are into rooting and modding).

I'd think that for most purposes, unless you like to zoom in as far as you can go, the One's images will be better. But like everyone we only have a few samples to work on, and no controlled comparisons.
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Old March 2nd, 2013, 09:37 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Default Re: Camera talk - the Ultrapixel and more (Keep thread on topic)

So far as I knew, all One X variations came with an f/2.0 lens aperture, same as the One.
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Old March 3rd, 2013, 05:29 PM   #32 (permalink)
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I was lucky enough to get my hands on the HTC one at the launch event. I can say that in low light conditions, the camera beats the one x and iPhone hands down.
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Old March 3rd, 2013, 11:31 PM   #33 (permalink)
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On this website it says that the phone shoots video @60 fps, which is very hard to believe. Is this just a typo, or what, because 60 fps is crazy for a smartphone.
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Old March 3rd, 2013, 11:47 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Default Re: Camera talk - the Ultrapixel and more (Keep thread on topic)

Which website?

Other cell phones have hit 60 fps, it depends on the resolution and the available lighting, this one does it at 720p according to the spec.

http://www.htc.com/www/zoe/specifications/
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Old March 4th, 2013, 07:31 AM   #35 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EarlyMon View Post
So far as I knew, all One X variations came with an f/2.0 lens aperture, same as the One.
I'm sure you're right. I had f/2.2 in mind, but I'd probably read some misinformed blogger at some point (not BGR though - I have some standards )
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Old March 14th, 2013, 01:24 AM   #36 (permalink)
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Per the Verge, results are mediocre. They give it a 6 out of ten. There are trade-offs.

HTC One review | The Verge
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Old March 14th, 2013, 01:30 AM   #37 (permalink)
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Default Re: Camera talk - the Ultrapixel and more (Keep thread on topic)

Check out today's posts in the review thread, lots of interesting camera perspectives there.

And their complaint was the fear I'd voiced earlier - post-processing compression. I don't expect that to be an issue for the root community, but I wish they'd lay off that.
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Old March 14th, 2013, 11:22 AM   #38 (permalink)
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Engadget's review is saying the HTC one takes superb pics and the fact of getting past the 4megapixel count will be a non issue...I'll leave that up to me though when I get a hands one. IMO its the person taking the photo that makes the difference, not necessarily the camera it self.

I can take great pics with my nexus 4, does it have the best camera on the market? Not by a longshot...However I'm still able to grab really good pics when people I know with the same phone or even an iphone 5 can't top the same pic at the same time standing right next to me. Theres more to taking good pics then just having a ton of megapixels!
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Old March 14th, 2013, 12:40 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PyroSporker View Post
A buddy at work, a long time Nokia user, sent me this link yesterday
Its good to see some actual photos and comparisons coming out and not just hearing more marketing hyperbole from the press conference.

Cameras: HTC One vs Nokia Lumia 920 - Neowin
Theres been a few more comparisons in the past few days
Not a lot of science here, but I always enjoy looking through these no matter what. I tend to ignore the commentary and try let the photos do the talking

UltraPixel vs PureView: HTC One & Nokia Lumia 920 Camera Shoot-Out | Pocketnow
Still photography comparison - HTC One vs Nokia Lumia 920


HTC One vs iPhone 5 vs Nokia Lumia 920


Camera phone comparison; HTC One, BlackBerry Z10, iPhone 5, Lumia 920, and Note II | ZDNet



Quote:
Originally Posted by Hadron View Post
My own guess, from what I've seen, is that you might get marginally less detail if you pixel peep (zoom to full resolution of the camera),
This is pretty spot on ^
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Old March 15th, 2013, 12:07 PM   #40 (permalink)
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Samsung Galaxy S 4 Vs HTC One - Quick Camera Comparison | TechnoBuffalo

The One looks pretty damn good!

Here's another camera comparison....HTC One vs quite a few other cameras.
Look's pretty good to me.

HTC One vs. The Latest Smartphones - Camera Comparison | TechnoBuffalo
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Old March 16th, 2013, 02:43 AM   #41 (permalink)
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Saw a video on youtube where the HTC One's camera easily beats the Droid DNA's camera.
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Old March 17th, 2013, 03:39 PM   #42 (permalink)
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Some stunning pics here from the One Ultrapixel camera.....

HTC ONE - ULTRAPIXEL PHOTO CAMERA TEST - FULLHD 1080p - YouTube
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Old March 18th, 2013, 01:09 AM   #43 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by craftycarper View Post
Some stunning pics here from the One Ultrapixel camera.....

HTC ONE - ULTRAPIXEL PHOTO CAMERA TEST - FULLHD 1080p - YouTube
Yippppppy...I was a little worried about some rumblings of the camera not taking such great shots! Looks like those rumblings were wrong
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Old March 19th, 2013, 08:28 PM   #44 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craftycarper View Post
Some stunning pics here from the One Ultrapixel camera.....

HTC ONE - ULTRAPIXEL PHOTO CAMERA TEST - FULLHD 1080p - YouTube

Definitely good enough for me and quite the upgrade from my 3VO!
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Old March 20th, 2013, 03:41 AM   #45 (permalink)
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Here's a few more pictures. Not as artistically put together as Thomas Van Welt's pics and video above and with an annoying soundtrack but still a reasonable selection of landscape shots.

HTC ONE Camera images - YouTube
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Old March 23rd, 2013, 07:28 PM   #46 (permalink)
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Rather than start a new thread I thought i'd post a question here. On my One, when I have the camera app open and I tap on the screen to set a focal point, the camera makes a very short squeak that sounds like a tiny electric motor is actually moving an aperture. I've never experienced that on a smartphone before, can anyone else confirm if their camera does the same please?
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Old March 23rd, 2013, 08:04 PM   #47 (permalink)
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Default Re: Camera talk - the Ultrapixel and more (Keep thread on topic)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scootmien View Post
Rather than start a new thread I thought i'd post a question here. On my One, when I have the camera app open and I tap on the screen to set a focal point, the camera makes a very short squeak that sounds like a tiny electric motor is actually moving an aperture. I've never experienced that on a smartphone before, can anyone else confirm if their camera does the same please?
That's been standard on the HTC camera for a while - it's obviously not real, just a sound effect to provide you with feedback.
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Old March 23rd, 2013, 08:28 PM   #48 (permalink)
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The Verge weighing in on the One's Camera against the competition

Top Shelf: What's the best smartphone camera today? - YouTube
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Old March 23rd, 2013, 09:19 PM   #49 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EarlyMon View Post
That's been standard on the HTC camera for a while - it's obviously not real, just a sound effect to provide you with feedback.
Yeah the HTC phone's have had that subtle little noise with the cameras for some time...
I bet it sounds like a diesel motor on a dump truck with BoomSound though
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Old March 23rd, 2013, 10:33 PM   #50 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sean76 View Post
The Verge weighing in on the One's Camera against the competition

Top Shelf: What's the best smartphone camera today? - YouTube
Interesting comparison video. First time I've seen someone not care for the pics from the Lumina. Not surprising the guy preferred the iPhone pics, as I believe one the Verge reviews I read seemed like it should be coming from iVerge. I really thought the line "it looks like a cell phone camera picture..." was brilliant .... I mean, really. I want a better camera than my 3VO, but am under no illusion that a phone can take the place of a point and click... Seems like I'm going to be happy with it.
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The HTC One is the manufacturer's flagship device for 2013. The device's specs put it in the top of the smartphone pyramid, featuring a 1.7 GHz quad-core Snapdragon 600 processor, 2 GB of RAM, a 4.7-inch 1080p display and Android 4.1.2. Its... Read More

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