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Old June 10th, 2011, 10:55 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default apps restarting themselves after force stop.

why is it that some apps restart themselves without me starting them after i have forcestopped them? things like gmail, maps, gallery... all tend to restart themselves even when i have backround data turned off.. WHY? HOW DO YOU STOP IT?!

furthermore you know what i hate.. theres no end on things. in order to make an app quit you have to force stop it. thats lame.

otherwise i am loving the crap out of my optimus V a week after getting it.

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Old June 10th, 2011, 11:08 PM   #2 (permalink)
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This is why some people run task manager software -- to periodically kill the processes that come up whether you want them or not.
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Old June 11th, 2011, 03:02 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Most of these apps are not actually running. Android keeps them in memory so they are ready when you need them. If they are not actually on screen and being used they don't use any juice. The android system is actually very good about monitoring its on memory. Force stopping those apps and having them start back up will use more juice then just leaving them alone. If the system needs more memory it wil automatically close apps to give you the needed space.
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Old June 11th, 2011, 10:48 AM   #4 (permalink)
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This is why some people run task manager software -- to periodically kill the processes that come up whether you want them or not.
You're right in the sense that people do do that. However, this is not actually advisable. At least the stock apps mentioned by the OP (and the vast majority of apps overall) will do absolutely no harm sitting in the background.

I used to be paranoid about this myself, but am no longer. The simple but effective proof: my wife uses an identical V with identical software and very similar usage patterns. The major difference between our phones: I'd always force-stop apps no longer needed; she doesn't even know what »force-stopping« means. (She even leaves Skype running constantly.)

After a few weeks of this it became obvious: there is no notable difference in battery use between her phone and mine. Nada.

Bottom line: unless you notice specific bad behavior from a buggy app, stay away from task killers and don't worry about force-closing.
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Old June 11th, 2011, 01:46 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I wasn't necessarily advocating using a task killer, just saying that's why they exist.

I myself use Android Assistant, but I don't have it set to kill things automatically. Instead, if I feel like things are getting bloated, I open it manually and do a "Quick Boost," which clears everything out for the time being.
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Old June 24th, 2011, 09:20 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Most of these apps are not actually running. Android keeps them in memory so they are ready when you need them. If they are not actually on screen and being used they don't use any juice. The android system is actually very good about monitoring its on memory. Force stopping those apps and having them start back up will use more juice then just leaving them alone. If the system needs more memory it wil automatically close apps to give you the needed space.
Are you sure about this? I'm seeing battery draining on apps.

Charged my phone overnight. Picked it off the charger and didn't even turn it on until about 2 hrs later. By that point, I was down to about 80% of battery life. According to SETTINGS / ABOUT PHONE / BATTERY USE, 54% of that power had been used by Google Goggles. Hadn't even used it today (ie. since the charging). Used it yesterday for 1-2 shots. Seems like that app IS running in the background and eating battery.

Am I missing something?
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Old June 24th, 2011, 10:14 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Are you sure about this? I'm seeing battery draining on apps.

Charged my phone overnight. Picked it off the charger and didn't even turn it on until about 2 hrs later. By that point, I was down to about 80% of battery life. According to SETTINGS / ABOUT PHONE / BATTERY USE, 54% of that power had been used by Google Goggles. Hadn't even used it today (ie. since the charging). Used it yesterday for 1-2 shots. Seems like that app IS running in the background and eating battery.

Am I missing something?
I agree with Narrow Salvo. Maybe the stock apps that came with the phone are harmless to battery life, but many newspaper and magazine apps seem to search for updates (Bloomberg News is especially bad), and if I don't force close it, the phone gets hot after an hour or two and my battery dies approximately 6 hours away from charging.
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Old June 24th, 2011, 11:43 AM   #8 (permalink)
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If you just have to forcestop an app that keeps restarting,you might try Android App Manager. If I forcestop it with this app manager, it stays stopped until I need to use it.
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Old June 24th, 2011, 01:09 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by intermental View Post
why is it that some apps restart themselves without me starting them after i have forcestopped them? things like gmail, maps, gallery... all tend to restart themselves even when i have backround data turned off.. WHY? HOW DO YOU STOP IT?!

furthermore you know what i hate.. theres no end on things. in order to make an app quit you have to force stop it. thats lame.

otherwise i am loving the crap out of my optimus V a week after getting it.

Read these articles so you can better understand how the Android operating system works (why apps keep restarting), and why it is important to stay away from task killers.

FAQ: Why You Shouldn’t Be Using a Task Killer with Android
Android Task Killers Explained: What They Do and Why You Shouldn't Use Them
AndroidSPIN Why you don’t need a task killer app with Android.

Having said that, you can download Watchdog from the Android Market. Watchdog is not an automated task killer. It will sit silently in the background, watch your apps, and give you a warning should any app begin to eat too much system resources. It will then give you an option to kill the app. This is much, much better for killing apps and gives you more control.

Thus far, the only built in app that came with my OpV to give me issues is the CoolIris Gallery app. I've had to kill that app a few times as it was eating up over 40% of my CPU.
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Old June 24th, 2011, 02:45 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by NoNameFace View Post
Read these articles so you can better understand how the Android operating system works (why apps keep restarting), and why it is important to stay away from task killers.

FAQ: Why You Shouldn’t Be Using a Task Killer with Android
Android Task Killers Explained: What They Do and Why You Shouldn't Use Them
AndroidSPIN Why you don’t need a task killer app with Android.

Having said that, you can download Watchdog from the Android Market. Watchdog is not an automated task killer. It will sit silently in the background, watch your apps, and give you a warning should any app begin to eat too much system resources. It will then give you an option to kill the app. This is much, much better for killing apps and gives you more control.

Thus far, the only built in app that came with my OpV to give me issues is the CoolIris Gallery app. I've had to kill that app a few times as it was eating up over 40% of my CPU.
Thanks. I read those articles. However, frankly, I have to agree with a lot of the comments on the last one. To quote a few of them:

"You are right in that Android devices don't need ATKs for making room for more apps to run, but you miss the point that it is for battery conservation as well..."

"So, plug your ears and stomp you feet while screaming 'task killers are worthless' but, my battery still disagrees with you."

"I agree, android may not care how many tasks are running, but the battery certainly does... "
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Old June 24th, 2011, 03:12 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Narrow Salvo View Post
Thanks. I read those articles. However, frankly, I have to agree with a lot of the comments on the last one. To quote a few of them:

"You are right in that Android devices don't need ATKs for making room for more apps to run, but you miss the point that it is for battery conservation as well..."

"So, plug your ears and stomp you feet while screaming 'task killers are worthless' but, my battery still disagrees with you."

"I agree, android may not care how many tasks are running, but the battery certainly does... "
Killing apps is worthless. You kill them using battery power they reopen using more of your battery and then you kill them and then they reopen. It's just the way it works if you really care about your battery so much use juice defender instead of task killers. They are not actually running they are just hibernating not using your battery.
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Old June 24th, 2011, 03:25 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Killing apps is worthless. You kill them using battery power they reopen using more of your battery and then you kill them and then they reopen. It's just the way it works if you really care about your battery so much use juice defender instead of task killers. They are not actually running they are just hibernating not using your battery.
You can say that, but my own phone says that 54% of my battery used since the last recharge was used by Google Goggles -- an app I hadn't even used since the last recharge. How do you account for that?

I'm open the possibility that I've got some other problem. But, as it stands, my battery would be dead in 10-12 hours - and that's just with the phone being inactive. And, again, over 50% of that power usage on an app I'm not using.

But, ultimately, you're right, the app just starts up again. What do I do about an app that keeps reopening and eating my lunch? Uninstall?
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Old June 24th, 2011, 03:57 PM   #13 (permalink)
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if google goggles is eating so much of your battery that means it's not behaving properly and should be removed
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Old June 24th, 2011, 04:42 PM   #14 (permalink)
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if google goggles is eating so much of your battery that means it's not behaving properly and should be removed
nomnomnomnomnom!

Knowledge is power.
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Old June 24th, 2011, 10:23 PM   #15 (permalink)
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You can say that, but my own phone says that 54% of my battery used since the last recharge was used by Google Goggles -- an app I hadn't even used since the last recharge. How do you account for that?

I'm open the possibility that I've got some other problem. But, as it stands, my battery would be dead in 10-12 hours - and that's just with the phone being inactive. And, again, over 50% of that power usage on an app I'm not using.

But, ultimately, you're right, the app just starts up again. What do I do about an app that keeps reopening and eating my lunch? Uninstall?
yeah.... and as of my last check, Gallery is eating up 45% of my battery, and all i can figure is that it opens automatically when i turn on my camera. so then i have to kill both the camera and the gallery to make it stop doing that.

and yes.. i am running juice defender.

oh wait, i just checked and its 46% now.. despite the fact that force stopped both camera and gallery about 4 hours ago.

phones been unplugged for over 12 hrs, and actually thats only when i plugged in to my usb to transfer a file.
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Old June 24th, 2011, 10:38 PM   #16 (permalink)
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I develop Android apps so I though I'd explain why a task killer isn't needed on an Android system.

Activities
Android apps use activites to preform tasks. For example, if you use a file manager to send a picture via email, the file manager calls the send activity within an email app, passes the file name to it and the email app sends the picture.. not the file manager. This will result in seeing the email app as "running" even though the user didn't actually launch that email app.

Smaller apps
Using activites helps developers design smaller apps. A file manager app that contains every bit of code needed to do everything a file manager does would likely be so large that no one would want to install it. Developers know that an android phone more than likely has an email app so there is no need for the developer to include email code in his/her file manager to send a picture when he/she can call an activity in an existing email app to do the job. This results in a smaller file manager app since there is no need to include email code or any other code for an activity that can be done via an app that is already present on the phone. This also alleviates redundant code. When you install an app outside of the android market, also known as sideloading, the file manager app calls the package installer (already present in Android) to install the requested app.

Running apps vs. cached apps
The "Manage Applications" list included in many android devices lists running apps as well as cached apps. Cached apps don't use any CPU or battery, they're cached so they will load faster the next time you need them. Killing cached apps results in those apps requiring more time to load the next time they are launched.

System management
By default, every android application runs in its own Linux process. Android starts the process when any of the application’s code (activities) needs to be executed, and shuts down the process when it’s no longer needed and system resources are required by other applications.

* Android is hard coded to automatically kill a task when more memory is needed.
* Android is hard coded to automatically kill a task when it’s done doing what it needs to do.
* Android is hard coded to automatically kill a task when you haven’t returned to it in a long time.
* Most services (while possibly running in the background) use very little memory when not actively doing something.
* A content provider is only doing something when there is a notification for it to give. Otherwise it uses very little memory.
* Killing a process when it isn’t ready only causes it to have to reload itself and start from scratch when it’s needed again.
* Because a task is likely running in the background for a reason, killing it will only cause it to re-spawn as soon as the activity that was using it looks for it again. And it will just have to start over again.
* Killing certain processes can have undesirable side effects. Not receiving text messages, alarms not going off, and force closes just to name a few.
* The only true way to prevent something from running at all on your phone would be to uninstall the .apk.
* Most applications will exit themselves if you get out of it by hitting “back” until it closes rather than hitting the “home” button. But even with hitting home, Android will eventually kill it once it’s been in the background for a while.

If you see an app running that you didn't launch, it's most likely because an activity within that app was called by another app to perform a task. If you kill the app you didn't launch, the system has to relaunch that app in order to complete its task. This is why some people kill a task and then see it immediately running again. Constantly killing that app creates a situation where the user is battling the system resulting in wasted system resources.

Android is Linux
Android is not a Windows-based OS, it is based on Linux. Many of the apps you think are running aren't actually running, they're cached, this is typical with a Linux operating system and is much more efficient than other systems. Cached apps don't use any CPU or battery, they're cached and will load faster the next time they're needed.

Let the system manage resources.
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Old June 25th, 2011, 12:35 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Thanks for the detailed explanation, ardchoille!
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Old June 25th, 2011, 11:14 AM   #18 (permalink)
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this explains alot... and thank you very much.
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Old June 25th, 2011, 05:16 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Thanks for explaining it better than I did.
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Old June 26th, 2011, 05:31 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Thanks, ardchoille, that's helpful.

However, is there an explanation as to why some apps seem to use an inordinate amount of power (according to SETTINGS / ABOUT PHONE / BATTERY USE)?

Doesn't seem like Google Goggles should have used 54% of the power on a day (when I didn't even use Goggles). (Had been unplugged for about 3 hrs by then and was down to about 80% battery.) Possibly it downloaded an update to Goggles during that time?
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Old March 10th, 2012, 12:33 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Default LG OptimusV battery getting sucked up

I have the LG OptimusV & find the battery gets sucked up without doing anything, even after doing task killer & force stops on apps. Went to bed one night with full battery & it was dead in the morning. any ideas?
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Old March 10th, 2012, 08:01 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Turn everything off when not in use, EVERYTHING. GPS, Bluetooth, 3G, WiFi, Auto sync, and turn down the screen brightness when you do use it to a level that you can just see the screen ok. Also there is a lot of good info in here as well 3G Drops and Battery Drain Solutions
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Old September 23rd, 2012, 03:07 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Thumbs up thanks a lot !!

thanks a lot it's very usefull
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Old September 25th, 2012, 11:12 AM   #24 (permalink)
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One of the the things that irritates me, is whenever I install or remove an app, a hand full of apps start up like they have business running without me starting them. Available memory drops and some apps are just plain battery hogs. So, whenever I install or remove an app I have the additional task of closing these apps. Run time for any app should occur at my discretion.. If an app refuses to cooperate, it is obvious the logic is missing to behave and it's gone. The OV has limited resources and efficient operation requires proactive maintenance. Using these procedures I get 2 days on a charge with moderate usage. Otherwise, I'd be charging one to two times a day.
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Old September 25th, 2012, 07:02 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Trip.. check out the large post about 5 to 7 posts up from yours. It will explain a lot, and help you understand the Android operating system a bit better.
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Old September 26th, 2012, 07:51 AM   #26 (permalink)
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The system is not perfect. Designers plan a perfect OS and Murphy's Law kicks in. An installed app has no license to run without my permission. My droid works for me.
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Old September 26th, 2012, 12:30 PM   #27 (permalink)
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An installed app has no license to run without my permission. My droid works for me.
There are apps you can get to constantly kill those apps, but keep in mind that it eats your system resources for the apps to keep turning themselves back on. It also eats your battery.
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Old September 26th, 2012, 10:41 PM   #28 (permalink)
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There are plenty if misbehaving apps out there. The best solution is to get rid of them. It's a hard choice sometimes, but after getting rid of some of my apps that keep restarting themselves (facebook) my phone runs so much faster.

People who claim that facebook running all the time and sitting in my memory is a good thing are idiots.

I understand that keeping an app in memory may make it start faster, but your phone isn't that far from your computer. How would your computer perform if you kept every application open? Sure, they would all "open" faster. But each one that refuses to close decreases performance because your processor has to keep an open thread for them. There is absolutely no way a running service will not slow down your phone in some way.

It's the same concept of those programs you see in the bottom right-hand corner of your PC. The ones that have a "quick-start" service running. Sure, one or two will make those start fast, but what if every single program on your PC had one of those little quick-start apps going? Nobody starts faster if everybody wants to start faster.

Android would do a good job of managing memory, if every app played by the rules. But they don't. Lots of them bully the others, telling the OS that their bullshit calculations are more important than the other guys, and by the way "it's so important I can never turn off."

I understand that android has a slightly different architecture from PCs but apps that will not turn off are bad.
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Old September 26th, 2012, 10:56 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Also I want to write a post sometime in the future explaining why an app killer is good if you use it properly. Most people don't use them correctly, hence the contrasting opinions on their effectiveness.
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Old September 28th, 2012, 01:43 PM   #30 (permalink)
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There are apps you can get to constantly kill those apps, but keep in mind that it eats your system resources for the apps to keep turning themselves back on. It also eats your battery.
Don't get me wrong. I have a CS & EE degree with 30+ yrs experience in real time systems. What I'm saying is there are conditions available to autostart apps that programmers use inappropriately. To counter that, there are apps that allow you to override these autostart conditions for individual apps. Of course Google Play store is exempt from autostart overrides and can run whenever... grooveIP will autostart whenever you install an app.

I still get 2 days per charge with a LWP running full time and 177 installed apps.
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Old September 28th, 2012, 11:52 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip9 View Post
What I'm saying is there are conditions available to autostart apps that programmers use inappropriately.

Now that you've reworded it, I understand what you were trying to say.
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Old September 29th, 2012, 09:14 AM   #32 (permalink)
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If you're rooted, you can control the autostart settings for apps. There a couple apps I have found that work rather well. Try "autostarts" or "Gemini App Manager". With either of these apps and a rooted phone you can view and change the individual auto start conditions of each app on your device.
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Old September 29th, 2012, 08:18 PM   #33 (permalink)
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The best app to have to keep an app from auto starting is LBE Privacy Guard.

With it you can control the permissions an app has.
The biggest reason an app auto starts is to communicate with it's developer, or Google, or the spam server the developer used to put money in their pocket. If you do not allow any of these types of permissions then you will have a lot fewer apps auto starting.
Air push Detector is an app that will show you what apps are spamming.

Out of 180 something apps I have only seven that are considered running apps.
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Old December 21st, 2012, 09:52 AM   #34 (permalink)
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New guy here, recently bought my daughter her first tablet and this issue is driving me nuts. Thanks for the discussion and info here folks, there are a lot of posts on this topic on the web with very little information, this has some useful info.

For some its about battery life others think its a memory problem but I have to agree with Trip 9 and AndyOpie150.... It's my device, I should have the control over these things. Privacy is a huge issue but apparently not one of the Android O/S design concerns, how sad.

Ardchoille, thanks to your explanation I understand better how the o/s is supposed to work but as expressed by a couple of other posters, theory and reality don't always go together.

To all the others talking about battery drain it looks like your suspicions have been confirmed. I am new so I can't post the link. However do a web search on:
"The Surprising Reason Your Phone's Battery Life Drains"

There was a study from Purdue university specifically on Android:

It looks like my only option is to root her tablet and try some of the apps mentioned <sigh>.





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