Go Back   Android Forums > Android Community > The Lounge > Literature

Get excited for the Samsung Galaxy S5! Find everything you need and discuss it in our Galaxy S5 Forum!

test: Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old October 13th, 2010, 01:21 AM   #1 (permalink)
Member
Thread Author (OP)
 
n0ct3m's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 419
 
Device(s): Samsung Fascinate
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 9
Thanked 60 Times in 40 Posts
Send a message via AIM to n0ct3m Send a message via MSN to n0ct3m
Default Getting ready to write a book

I'm getting ready to start writing my own book. At first it was going to be a movie script, but I decided to go the novel route instead. My only fear, however, is that I really won't be any good at coming up with several different ideas that I can form into one book. Any of you ever tried writing before and have tips on keeping the creative juices flowing?

__________________
Quote:
Your opinion is irrelevant.
n0ct3m is offline  
Reply With Quote
sponsored links
Old October 13th, 2010, 01:36 AM   #2 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
eyebeam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Richfield MN
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,419
 
Device(s): Me - Evo 3D, Nexus 7 - Wife - Evo 3D, Galaxy Tab 10.1"
Carrier: Sprint

Thanks: 2,095
Thanked 3,099 Times in 2,147 Posts
Default

Best advice I have is to buy up some Kramer stories about falling in the mud while returning some pants. DO NOT use any Newman bunion ones! (any Seinfeld fans here?)

Seriously, I tried myself a few years ago, and quickly figured out that I am not a writer, so my advice would be of limited value. But best of luck to you. Maybe when you get some stuff down, you'd like to let the folks here read a rough draft or a chapter or two to get some feedback.
eyebeam is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old October 13th, 2010, 09:55 AM   #3 (permalink)
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 77
 
Device(s): Samsung Galaxy Nexus
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 1
Thanked 11 Times in 9 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by n0ct3m View Post
I'm getting ready to start writing my own book. At first it was going to be a movie script, but I decided to go the novel route instead. My only fear, however, is that I really won't be any good at coming up with several different ideas that I can form into one book. Any of you ever tried writing before and have tips on keeping the creative juices flowing?
I've actually written two novels and a handful of screenplays and TV shows, none of which I've tried to get published but just for fun.

They are different animals so here are a few tips:

For a screenplay, you don't have to say as much because you have the visual element to allow the audience to see and understand things. Also there are a handful of very active and supportive screenwriting message boards out there. When I wrote my screenplays it was only after outlining individual scenes on index cards, very broadly, and then when I sat down to write each scene, just expanding on what I had written on the card.

For a book, I would go into it with a pretty firm idea of how it's going to end and going backwards from there. You don't need to prepare index cards as much as an outline of at least several pages where you explore the characters, main plot points, and any ideas you have that you feel should be in the book.

It never hurts to ask for advice about this kind of thing and I found it to be a very rewarding experience. The idea of creating a world entirely out of your own imagination can be incredible.

Good luck!
Potvin63 is offline  
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Potvin63 For This Useful Post:
flowers4u (November 15th, 2010)
Old October 14th, 2010, 04:06 PM   #4 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
ElasticNinja's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Cork City, IMF, EU
Posts: 4,488
 
Device(s): Galaxy S3 Mini, ZTE Blade
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 811
Thanked 460 Times in 408 Posts
ciaranhurley0@gmail.com
Default

Well I would try write a few short stories on different themes first.
Find one you like - stick with it
__________________
Sign up for Minus online storage and get 10 GB of Free Space today! Sign up Here!
ElasticNinja is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old October 14th, 2010, 06:04 PM   #5 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Bob Maxey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 4,837
 
Device(s):
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 381
Thanked 811 Times in 641 Posts
Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by n0ct3m View Post
I'm getting ready to start writing my own book. At first it was going to be a movie script, but I decided to go the novel route instead. My only fear, however, is that I really won't be any good at coming up with several different ideas that I can form into one book. Any of you ever tried writing before and have tips on keeping the creative juices flowing?
Forgive the sloppy post. It is copied and pasted from several documents and I do not want to proofread. I think I can help, however.

First, a question: Do you want to try to sell your book to a traditional publisher, or a subsidy/vanity/POD publisher? There is a big difference in your approach. Traditional publishers wont take everything that comes over the transom, and rejection is par for the course. Other kinds of publishers will print damn near anything, regardless of the quality.

Understand that publishing via the vanity approach is generally worthless in the world of legitimate publishing. Sorry, but there is no respect there and that is generally how it must be. Writing a book is a huge undertaking and no wanna be novelist with nothing to say, selling his slop on Lulu Press is likely to be worth the same as a book that a big publisher wants and eventually publishes. Sorry, I like to paint with broad strokes.

Published authors absolutely know this, as do legitimate publishers, agents, and editors. This is not opinion, it is a simple fact that every new author damn well needs to know. Start thinking differently, start thinking I exaggerate, and you run the risk of becoming a "PublishAmerica" victim. Google that PARTICULAR company and dig deep, well past the top returns where everything is happy and perfect. Your vanity means nothing at all and you will not be taken seriously by anyone that matters.

When anyone can publish anything, there is usually very little quality.

Forget wanting to write because it is a calling. I write because I am afraid of the calling. That is to say, Visa, and Master Card calling me. I know your goal is to sell your book; it is the Great American Dream. And trust me on this, there are ways that help you possibly get a contract and things that will slowly screw the life out of you as you struggle uphill against a battle you might loose, because of your inattention to basic and fundamental publishing truths. This is a business, after all.

For fun, try this site: Travis Tea - author of Atlanta Nights. Before you visit, try saying the site name and think about bad publishers. I hope someone gets it.

For the record, I use Lulu Press for some stuff I want to distribute to interested parties. And it is terrible crap. I am not a great writer and I struggle like hell. Just a technical writer with hopes.

To Continue:

You can't join certain writers guilds or associations like the WGA unless you have credits. They will not let everyone in, regardless of how many books you have self-published. Try Writers Guild of America, West and do a little research. They maintain a list of reputable agents and they are quite serious. By the way, there is a Writer's Guild of America - East and West. There is also a Writer Guilds of America. The WGA is a legitimate guild and they have represented writers for a very long time.

The Agent Question:

No, the circular argument that says you cant get an agent unless you sell and how can you sell without an agent? is not valid; Thousands of unagented books are sold every year. Agents do have value in that they fight for you because they more you make the more they make. STAY AWAY from any agent that wants a fee. By the way, visit a few agent sites and you will discover that getting an agent is not as impossible as the general public thinks. NO Friggin Book Doctors!

If you sell a book to Random House, for example, the process can be slow. You work with great people and editors to help you shape your work. If you have an agent -easier to get if RH wants to see your work- he or she will also help you. Publishing contracts are not for the beginner and you might want to keep some of the rights you might not be aware of at this point. This is where agents help. Stay the heck away from Work For Hire deals. You loose far too much.

Suppose J.K. Rowling gave away movie or merchandising rights?

There are a few places like LULU Press that do not claim to be legitimate publishers; places like "Author House" seem to suggest they are. Lulu Press is a Print on Demand (POD) Publisher that does not offer services that are almost always offered by a traditional publisher. You upload a manuscript, some cover art, and thats it. They handle printing and shipping. Fair and honest because they do not pretend to be something they are not.

Also, largely forget getting a self-published work into the book stores. Most buyers will not touch you. Amazon dot com, yes; then again, that is a no brainer, because most anything can be sold on Amazon. Not a legitimate big deal achievement to be sure.

I will assume you want a traditional publisher. First and this IS VERY IMPORTANT: Learn the differences between vanity, subsidy, POD, and traditional publishing. Research your market and READ THE WRITERS AND AUTHORS GUIDELINES FIRST. Visit a few publisher's web sites and look for author information. They are often called 'Writer's Guidelines.'

The writer's Guidelines tell you everything you need to know -from what to write (most publishers will tell you what they are interested in and not interested in) to how to format your manuscript, to what supplemental info is required. For example, some publishers/editors want a detailed chapter-by-chapter outline, an author's bio, a list of previous works published by you, any competing books on the market, (their publisher name, date, etc) and how you intend to help market the book. Yes, this is expected.

They also tell you about fonts, line spacing, indents, margins, and the purely mechanical aspects of that pile of pages. Typically, 1" to 1-1/2 inch borders, double spaced, printed on a single side of the bond stock paper, in black and white and clipped together, not stapled.

All that is left for you is the quality of your writing.

NEVER pay a book doctor. A huge scam in the business. NEVER pay for publishing; no upfront fees will be required by a legitimate publisher. MONEY ALWAYS FLOWS TO THE AUTHOR NOT FROM THE AUTHOR. You would due well to never forget that line. Repeat it... go on, I'm waiting, good. REPEAT IT TWICE!

Run like hell if they want ANY MONEY AT ALL! If a legitimate publisher wants your book, they will send you an advance and they will send you a contract. This is an advance against royalties. If you receive an advance of ten grand and your royalty is a buck a book, you do not see anything past the advance until ten thousand copies are sold. Advances are basically zero interest loans to be paid from the sales of books. And you likely never repay the advance, so perhaps it is not really a loan.

My suggestion is to visit the WGA web site and pick up a few basic books about writing your first novel. Look for books published by Writer's Digest. Subscribe to "Writers Digest Magazine," "Book Magazine," "The Writer." If you want to follow the market, try "Publisher's Weekly." Very pricey, though.They are generally great reads and they tell you exactly how it is. Also, visit some industry sites like Publisher's Weekly and join a local writing group for help.

Finally, try writing a few magazine articles. Real paper and ink publications.

Cheers,

Bob Maxey
Bob Maxey is offline  
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Bob Maxey For This Useful Post:
dan330 (November 25th, 2010)
Old November 4th, 2010, 11:02 AM   #6 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 108
 
Device(s):
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 21
Thanked 9 Times in 7 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by n0ct3m View Post
I'm getting ready to start writing my own book. At first it was going to be a movie script, but I decided to go the novel route instead. My only fear, however, is that I really won't be any good at coming up with several different ideas that I can form into one book. Any of you ever tried writing before and have tips on keeping the creative juices flowing?
I'm currently editing my first novel (and hopefully sending it to agents soon). Writing is hard work and keeping the creativity going can be difficult sometimes. It comes and goes for me. Basically, if it's there I write, if it's not I go play Xbox or watch a movie. A lot of writers will tell you to write through the rough days just to get the words on the page even if they're crap, but I've never liked that piece of advice since they are usually writers who work without an outline (they call it organic writing). I use an outline and know where my story is going, so if my creativity is off one day I walk away from the work. Every writer is different.

I highly suggest you hang out on the absolutewrite forums. Especially the "basic writing" and "novel" forums. There's quite a few published authors on there. The members are incredibly helpful and love writing. You'll learn a lot about the craft.
Wordslinger is offline  
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Wordslinger For This Useful Post:
dan330 (November 25th, 2010)
Old November 11th, 2010, 01:19 AM   #7 (permalink)
johnmac1
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
 
Device(s):
Carrier: Not Provided

Default

Hey..writing novels is not an easy task. Gathering ideas at one place and making them in a good format is not easy. When everything will be ok and you have completed your book with mind blowing ideas the problem occurs at the next stage. If the printing design is not good and it is not printed in a good format than it will destroy everything.

My advice to you plan for printing also that which printing company you will hire so that the book is a complete package for sale with not only ideas but also with the design which usually attract the readers.
 
Reply With Quote
Old November 11th, 2010, 03:26 AM   #8 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 202
 
Device(s):
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 0
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Default

i like your book
ArthurIhde is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old November 11th, 2010, 08:09 AM   #9 (permalink)
Junior Member
 
StephenJSweeney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: England
Posts: 17
 
Device(s):
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 3
Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post
Default

I second everything that Bob Maxey has said. Getting published is a tough game, and my one word of advice to anyone who wants to write is: Do it because you love it.

Enjoy writing the story, inventing the world, the scenes and the characters.

Last year I used Lulu to print a book that was quite well received, and managed to get store placement (Waterstone's in the UK). It's now on Kindle and Apple's iBookstore. I'm also making an Android quiz for it, so that people who have read the book can answer questions on it.

It's good fun. Do enjoy the writing.
StephenJSweeney is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old November 11th, 2010, 04:47 PM   #10 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Bob Maxey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 4,837
 
Device(s):
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 381
Thanked 811 Times in 641 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnmac1 View Post
Hey..writing novels is not an easy task. Gathering ideas at one place and making them in a good format is not easy. When everything will be ok and you have completed your book with mind blowing ideas the problem occurs at the next stage. If the printing design is not good and it is not printed in a good format than it will destroy everything.

My advice to you plan for printing also that which printing company you will hire so that the book is a complete package for sale with not only ideas but also with the design which usually attract the readers.
I think there needs to be a little clarification. First, if you are planning to write a book destined for traditional publishing, do not worry about formatting. Your publisher will handle the formatting and layout of your book. You will NEVER submit a formatted book to a traditional/legitimate publisher.

If your book is destined for self-publishing, Vanity, Subsidy, etc., yes, perhaps formatting is a concern. Someone mentioned Lulu Press and yes, formatting is up to the author if using Lulu Press.

Bob Maxey
Bob Maxey is offline  
Reply With Quote
sponsored links
Old November 11th, 2010, 04:56 PM   #11 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
ElasticNinja's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Cork City, IMF, EU
Posts: 4,488
 
Device(s): Galaxy S3 Mini, ZTE Blade
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 811
Thanked 460 Times in 408 Posts
ciaranhurley0@gmail.com
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnmac1 View Post
Hey..writing novels is not an easy task. Gathering ideas at one place and making them in a good format is not easy. When everything will be ok and you have completed your book with mind blowing ideas the problem occurs at the next stage. If the printing design is not good and it is not printed in a good format than it will destroy everything.

My advice to you plan for printing also that which printing company you will hire so that the book is a complete package for sale with not only ideas but also with the design which usually attract the readers.
Hey a fellow corkonian!

What Bob posted made a lot of sense
I know someone who got a book published and you have to be really careful with who you choose.
ElasticNinja is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old November 11th, 2010, 05:00 PM   #12 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Bob Maxey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 4,837
 
Device(s):
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 381
Thanked 811 Times in 641 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by StephenJSweeney View Post
I second everything that Bob Maxey has said. Getting published is a tough game, and my one word of advice to anyone who wants to write is: Do it because you love it.

Enjoy writing the story, inventing the world, the scenes and the characters.

Last year I used Lulu to print a book that was quite well received, and managed to get store placement (Waterstone's in the UK). It's now on Kindle and Apple's iBookstore. I'm also making an Android quiz for it, so that people who have read the book can answer questions on it.

It's good fun. Do enjoy the writing.
Here in the United States, and I HAVE NOT ASKED about various store policies in over a year, but a self-published book will likely never make it into a store. I know that several years ago, our group did a survey and discovered that most buyers ignore all self-published efforts. One retailer here in Utah would consider self-published local books from local authors about local Utah places, but for all other genres, forget it.

I have not read your book, so do not think I am talking about you specifically, StevenJSweeny, but for the most part, self-published books are terrible. Not all, but most. This is to be expected when anyone can write, print, and deliver a book to a customer.

Email me a manuscript, and it will be for sale, printed and bound, in about one hour or less. Places like Lulu Press make the effort meaningless.

The reason is simple: terrible plotting, horrible editing, and errors of every stripe are often overlooked by the author.

This also explains why there is sooooo much crap on the Internet. It is getting worse, too. These days, lots of sites want free content or they want to pay the writer little to nothing. Many of the writers do so, not because they can, but because the net will gladly accept terrible crap that no traditional publisher –book or serial publication—would ever consider. We are worth more than nothing, and it is sad indeed.

Traditional publishers offer (generally speaking) a better product because they have editors that can fix many of these issues. And yes, terrible traditionally published books arrive daily in bookstores across the nation.

Publishing is a hard game.

Bob Maxey
Bob Maxey is offline  
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Bob Maxey For This Useful Post:
EsmereldaPea (September 23rd, 2011), flowers4u (November 15th, 2010)
Old November 11th, 2010, 05:28 PM   #13 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Bob Maxey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 4,837
 
Device(s):
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 381
Thanked 811 Times in 641 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowninty View Post
Hey a fellow corkonian!

What Bob posted made a lot of sense
I know someone who got a book published and you have to be really careful with who you choose.
Unless you are going the self-publishing (and all of the variants) route, remember this: Money must ALWAYS flow to the writer, never from the writer.

So avoid those publishers that want money for various services, and absolutely stay away from book doctors. Never required if you are publishing traditionally.

Bob
Bob Maxey is offline  
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Bob Maxey For This Useful Post:
flowers4u (November 15th, 2010)
Old November 15th, 2010, 01:01 PM   #14 (permalink)
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 21
 
Device(s):
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 6
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Default

This is a really good idea! Go for it … live out your dream :-) I also love writing – in fact reading and writing are my favorite occupations. I'm also planning to write an ebook. However to be on the safe side I'm blogging some of the material and when I feel the time's right and I'm ready for it, then I'll compile and edit all my blog posts into a proper book.
This is my 2 cents worth …
flowers4u is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old November 15th, 2010, 01:14 PM   #15 (permalink)
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 21
 
Device(s):
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 6
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Potvin63 View Post
For a book, I would go into it with a pretty firm idea of how it's going to end and going backwards from there. You don't need to prepare index cards as much as an outline of at least several pages where you explore the characters, main plot points, and any ideas you have that you feel should be in the book.

It never hurts to ask for advice about this kind of thing and I found it to be a very rewarding experience. The idea of creating a world entirely out of your own imagination can be incredible.

Good luck!
First of all your advice has inspired me to give it a try with fiction writing. Up to now I've only done essay writing, reporting, and biographical sketches on special people who have had a major influence on my way of thinking.
Indeed writing is exceedingly rewarding! I was really walking on air when I published my first blog posts. I put a lot of effort into my writing and when I finally found the courage to publish my posts, I felt so good about it.
flowers4u is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old November 15th, 2010, 01:29 PM   #16 (permalink)
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 21
 
Device(s):
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 6
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Maxey View Post
Unless you are going the self-publishing (and all of the variants) route, remember this: Money must ALWAYS flow to the writer, never from the writer.

So avoid those publishers that want money for various services, and absolutely stay away from book doctors. Never required if you are publishing traditionally.

Bob
You've hit the nail right on the head – I couldn't have worded it better! Thanks for giving us this sound piece of advice. My friend had some ugly experiences with publishers. So I learnt from witnessing her experience to keep away from publishers. As I already stated in a previous post I use my personal blog for publishing and getting constructive feedback from various pen-friends. When I feel the time's right I'll do the publishing myself, Please God.
flowers4u is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old November 15th, 2010, 06:27 PM   #17 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Bob Maxey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 4,837
 
Device(s):
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 381
Thanked 811 Times in 641 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by flowers4u View Post
This is a really good idea! Go for it … live out your dream :-) I also love writing – in fact reading and writing are my favorite occupations. I'm also planning to write an ebook. However to be on the safe side I'm blogging some of the material and when I feel the time's right and I'm ready for it, then I'll compile and edit all my blog posts into a proper book.


This is my 2 cents worth …
Queries:

1- To be safe? What do you mean exactly.
2- Can you please send me a link to your blog?
3- Why wait? No time like the present time to begin
4- Remember timeliness. Are you sure people will care about your blog contents enough to buy the book?
5- Self or traditional publishing?

Bob
Bob Maxey is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old November 20th, 2010, 04:37 PM   #18 (permalink)
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 21
 
Device(s):
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 6
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Maxey View Post
Queries:

1- To be safe? What do you mean exactly.
2- Can you please send me a link to your blog?
3- Why wait? No time like the present time to begin
4- Remember timeliness. Are you sure people will care about your blog contents enough to buy the book?
5- Self or traditional publishing?

Bob
"To be safe" means not to invest money in something which in the end doesn't sell. Publishing blog posts doesn't cost anything (no printing expenses, etc.). From the feedback I get for my blog posts I can then see whether people like what I write and if they find it interesting. Publishing articles on my blog is essentially the first stage towards publishing my book. When I've got all the material ready, Please God, I'll publish an e-book on my website and have an option for print on demand. The whole project will be self-published.
flowers4u is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old November 22nd, 2010, 05:55 PM   #19 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Bob Maxey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 4,837
 
Device(s):
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 381
Thanked 811 Times in 641 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by flowers4u View Post
"To be safe" means not to invest money in something which in the end doesn't sell. Publishing blog posts doesn't cost anything (no printing expenses, etc.). From the feedback I get for my blog posts I can then see whether people like what I write and if they find it interesting. Publishing articles on my blog is essentially the first stage towards publishing my book. When I've got all the material ready, Please God, I'll publish an e-book on my website and have an option for print on demand. The whole project will be self-published.
Do not get too excited. Regardless of how many positive comments you receive, you still need to convert those readers that like your blog into customers that will shell out the cold hard cash for your book.

Bob Maxey
Bob Maxey is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old November 25th, 2010, 10:56 AM   #20 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 9,599
 
Device(s):
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 1,697
Thanked 1,936 Times in 1,499 Posts
Default

great info....
and the great advice...
and forum.


i am trying my hand at writing a children's book for 3-6yr olds. I have a rough draft for an 18 page book. I was a pretty good artist in my earlier years. I think I have a good idea in my mind how it will look. I might be able to get out a very good rough draft of the book.

it is a simple.

do I really need an editor?

where would I start with publishers for this type of book?
dan330 is online now  
Reply With Quote
sponsored links
Old November 25th, 2010, 01:12 PM   #21 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Bob Maxey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 4,837
 
Device(s):
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 381
Thanked 811 Times in 641 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dan330 View Post
great info....
and the great advice...
and forum.


i am trying my hand at writing a children's book for 3-6yr olds. I have a rough draft for an 18 page book. I was a pretty good artist in my earlier years. I think I have a good idea in my mind how it will look. I might be able to get out a very good rough draft of the book.

it is a simple.

do I really need an editor?

where would I start with publishers for this type of book?

Yes, you need an editor. The first editor is you. You know your content better than anyone else, so polish it well and make it shine.

However, should you hire an editor is a question often asked. There is no short answer except this: at some point, your book will be edited. You would be surprised at how many well known and over paid authors are edited by highly skilled editors.

When you sign that fat contract, you will be dealing with an editor. He or she will do much for you because publishers want great books. If you find an agent, again, your book will be edited.

Do not hire a freelance editor or a Book Doctor, however. Begin by finding a publisher or an agent that will consider your efforts and go from there. Search the web for publishers or look in the children’s book section of your local book store for books you like and find their publisher(s) on the web., Read the guidelines and go from there.

Bob Maxey
Bob Maxey is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old November 25th, 2010, 02:10 PM   #22 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 9,599
 
Device(s):
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 1,697
Thanked 1,936 Times in 1,499 Posts
Default

Bob M...

so editors do more than just check for my technical skills...
they also help edit the style and flow? add to the feel and movement of the story?

again this is going to be mostly a picture book.. the picture will tell 60 - 70% of the story. Can the editor help with the illustrations too? I would guess if they dont like the art work... they will hire an illustrator to do it for me?
dan330 is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old November 25th, 2010, 02:53 PM   #23 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Bob Maxey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 4,837
 
Device(s):
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 381
Thanked 811 Times in 641 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dan330 View Post
Bob M...

so editors do more than just check for my technical skills...
they also help edit the style and flow? add to the feel and movement of the story?

again this is going to be mostly a picture book.. the picture will tell 60 - 70% of the story. Can the editor help with the illustrations too? I would guess if they dont like the art work... they will hire an illustrator to do it for me?
Editors look for spelling and punctuation problems, flow, consistency, etc. They know what mistakes to avoid and they generally help make your book great. They shape your book and a good editor does a considerable amount of hand holding. They are experts in the Children’s Genre; again, I do not write for kids. I think there are several associations you can look into joining that are well respected and legitimate and it seems likely that they have forums in which to post questions.

If you can join, however. Some organizations like the WGA/East and WGA/West will not consider a writer for membership until he or she has a book under contract with a legitimate publisher or has already been published. It keeps the Riff Raff out.

Visit the library for books about writing for children. Any of the books published by “Writer’s Digest” are a safe bet.

Illustrators: not sure if they will hire an illustrator for you. I think they will match you with someone that suits your book. Most will have access to illustrators with experience illustrating children’s literature. I write technical crap and I produce my own drawings because they are very specific to my topic.

Bob Maxey
Bob Maxey is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old December 3rd, 2010, 04:15 PM   #24 (permalink)
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 77
 
Device(s): Samsung Galaxy Nexus
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 1
Thanked 11 Times in 9 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by flowers4u View Post
First of all your advice has inspired me to give it a try with fiction writing. Up to now I've only done essay writing, reporting, and biographical sketches on special people who have had a major influence on my way of thinking.
Indeed writing is exceedingly rewarding! I was really walking on air when I published my first blog posts. I put a lot of effort into my writing and when I finally found the courage to publish my posts, I felt so good about it.
I totally forgot about this thread and that I had posted a reply until now. Thanks for the kind words. I think now more than ever there are great ways for people who want to write to put their words and voice out there into the universe. I had several kinds of blogs years ago myself but after a few years it started to feel time consuming and as I moved on to longer length projects it appeared doubtful that anyone would read a blog containing entire chapters or full length screenplays.

Write the kind of material that makes you happy and as some of the other excellent comments in this thread have pointed out the more you write and edit your own material the better your own writing will become. It has been too long since I've been able to write and I fear that if I don't set aside time each week to write that I never will.

Best of luck in your writing Flowers.
Potvin63 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old January 7th, 2011, 07:43 PM   #25 (permalink)
Junior Member
 
Borat38's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 47
 
Device(s): HTC Desire A8181
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 16
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Default

I just finished a 600-page novel. My best advice would be to lay off the manuscript once in a while when recharging for ideas. The best parts of my novel (as per my editors' rating) I realized came to me when I wasn't working or thinking about the book: while driving, in the shower, watching TV, etc.

Also, keep a notebook for ideas. I scribbled down everything in mine: half-developed thoughts, plot devices, sketches of scenes that I wanted to happen, doodles, conversations between characters that I knew could later be put to use in a yet-unwritten part of the book, etc.

Good luck! And don't forget to hire a professional editor/s when you're done. I found this to be the most valuable advice I received as a first-time novelist.
Borat38 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old January 7th, 2011, 09:50 PM   #26 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 9,599
 
Device(s):
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 1,697
Thanked 1,936 Times in 1,499 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Borat38 View Post
I just finished a 600-page novel. My best advice would be to lay off the manuscript once in a while when recharging for ideas. The best parts of my novel (as per my editors' rating) I realized came to me when I wasn't working or thinking about the book: while driving, in the shower, watching TV, etc.

Also, keep a notebook for ideas. I scribbled down everything in mine: half-developed thoughts, plot devices, sketches of scenes that I wanted to happen, doodles, conversations between characters that I knew could later be put to use in a yet-unwritten part of the book, etc.

Good luck! And don't forget to hire a professional editor/s when you're done. I found this to be the most valuable advice I received as a first-time novelist.

congrats to the great personal achievement!
dan330 is online now  
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to dan330 For This Useful Post:
Borat38 (January 11th, 2011)
Old January 9th, 2011, 03:21 PM   #27 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Bob Maxey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 4,837
 
Device(s):
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 381
Thanked 811 Times in 641 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dan330 View Post
great info....
and the great advice...
and forum.


i am trying my hand at writing a children's book for 3-6yr olds. I have a rough draft for an 18 page book. I was a pretty good artist in my earlier years. I think I have a good idea in my mind how it will look. I might be able to get out a very good rough draft of the book.

it is a simple.

do I really need an editor?

where would I start with publishers for this type of book?
Be very careful when it comes to editors and book doctors; another term often applied to freelance editors.

For this discussion, let us assume the book will be traditionally published. That is to say, a legitimate publisher, not self-publishing or its variants. You will deal with an editor at the publishing company. His or her job is to make sure your book flows and is well written. He or she will hold your hand and further your book along, from galleys to the final product.

And many well respected authors are edited.

All too often, beginners seem hell bent on hiring an editor because they think they need to do this. Not at all true.

Remember this all caps: MONEY MUST ALWAYS FLOW TO THE WRITER AND NEVER FROM THE WRITER! If you have something worth publishing, it will likely find a publisher.

Bob Maxey
Bob Maxey is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old January 10th, 2011, 02:04 PM   #28 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Bob Maxey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 4,837
 
Device(s):
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 381
Thanked 811 Times in 641 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Borat38 View Post
I just finished a 600-page novel. My best advice would be to lay off the manuscript once in a while when recharging for ideas. The best parts of my novel (as per my editors' rating) I realized came to me when I wasn't working or thinking about the book: while driving, in the shower, watching TV, etc.

Also, keep a notebook for ideas. I scribbled down everything in mine: half-developed thoughts, plot devices, sketches of scenes that I wanted to happen, doodles, conversations between characters that I knew could later be put to use in a yet-unwritten part of the book, etc.

Good luck! And don't forget to hire a professional editor/s when you're done. I found this to be the most valuable advice I received as a first-time novelist.
Not to put a damper on things, but 600 pages? Are you sure you can sell it to a publisher? Consider most editor's mechanical requirements: they typically want 1.5 to double spaced and set with 11 to 12 point type. If your manuscript is set like that and still 600 pages, you will likely never sell it. That would be a huge pile of pages, after all.

I once tried to convince a silly writer that her 2500 page (single space, single side, 10 point set masterwork will NEVER EVER EVER sell because it is too damn big.

I suggest that if your goal is traditional publishing, read the guidelines odffered by the publisher. See if they will consider a manuscript that is more than a ream high.

As for paying for an editor, not a great idea and almost never a requirement. No serious publishing house I am aware of suggests writers pay for a freelance editor. Those chores are most often handled by the writer or your publisher.

You submit a proposal and if they say yes, all you will deal with as far as money is concerned is cashing the advance; hopefully, the royalty checks.

Bob Maxey
Bob Maxey is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old January 11th, 2011, 09:39 PM   #29 (permalink)
Junior Member
 
Borat38's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 47
 
Device(s): HTC Desire A8181
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 16
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Smile What about e-book format?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Maxey View Post
Not to put a damper on things, but 600 pages? Are you sure you can sell it to a publisher? Consider most editor's mechanical requirements: they typically want 1.5 to double spaced and set with 11 to 12 point type. If your manuscript is set like that and still 600 pages, you will likely never sell it. That would be a huge pile of pages, after all.

I once tried to convince a silly writer that her 2500 page (single space, single side, 10 point set masterwork will NEVER EVER EVER sell because it is too damn big.

I suggest that if your goal is traditional publishing, read the guidelines odffered by the publisher. See if they will consider a manuscript that is more than a ream high.

As for paying for an editor, not a great idea and almost never a requirement. No serious publishing house I am aware of suggests writers pay for a freelance editor. Those chores are most often handled by the writer or your publisher.

You submit a proposal and if they say yes, all you will deal with as far as money is concerned is cashing the advance; hopefully, the royalty checks.

Bob Maxey
Yeah, a prospective agent in New York I spoke with pretty much said the same thing: that 600 pages is gonna be tough to sell for a new author like me. But the manuscript's already been whittled down from its previous 800 pages. It's long because it's a historical novel (WWII & 1200 AD--in one novel).

What about publishing it in e-book format? I mean, 600 pages doesn't feel like 600 pages when it's inside a Kindle.
Borat38 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old January 11th, 2011, 09:51 PM   #30 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 9,599
 
Device(s):
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 1,697
Thanked 1,936 Times in 1,499 Posts
Default

why not break it down.. to 3 books.. a trilogy.
dan330 is online now  
Reply With Quote
sponsored links
Old February 1st, 2011, 08:30 AM   #31 (permalink)
Junior Member
 
mycaermita's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 57
 
Device(s): LG Optimus One P500
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 6
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Default

I get struck by a Writer's Block too! But I found that the best way to counter this is to simply gather what you can from whatever there is around you. For example, if you're writing a romance, you'd take some inspiration from your girlfriend or relationships of people around you.

Sometimes, I tend to get some of the juice from other authors. I don't think this is a bad technique. Whatever you like to read, sometimes some of the style gets transported into your own and that's not illegal. "A writer is only as great as his inspiration" can be a good one here. Also, don't fall asleep before you finish your rough draft. Sometimes pausing makes it harder to gather whatever you want to write. Let it flow. Don't think about grammar, spelling or "Is this good? Will people like this?" just yet. When you let your hands type whatever pops into your brain, good things come out.

You can add whatever else you want when you edit it for the first time. At least, that's what I do. Don't forget to take quick breaks in between though! A brain (or our optical nerves) can only take as much from computer radiations. Haha

Allot a significantly long time in your day to finish your book. Around 4 hours or so is a good length of time to write. Try to do it an hour or two after you eat your breakfast. A fresh day brings out fresh ideas. Writing before you sleep only makes you groggy.

Anyway, good luck! Let us know what happens to your book. ^^
mycaermita is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old March 4th, 2011, 11:58 PM   #32 (permalink)
Member
 
ScottColbert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 159
 
Device(s): LG Optimus F3
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 10
Thanked 38 Times in 24 Posts
Default

As a published writer and publisher (though I DO NOT publish my own work), I suggest two books to be close at hand at all times:

1. Strunk and White's Elements of Style.
2. Stephen King's book, "On Writing".

Every writer I know, the ones worth reading anyway, swear by those two books and so do I.

As a small-more micro really-press publisher, I can tell you I read a lot of crap when I had an open reading period. So much so, that I've pretty much decided to just go with people I know-whose writing I know will be good. Some I've found on other forums that had nothing to do with writing-others I've known for years.

My advice for what it's worth is fairly simple and straightforward: Just write. Don't edit along the way-you'll never finish. don't write with the idea of being published-you're going to hamstring your creativity. When I started writing my novella due out this year, I did that, and it really showed. When I said, screw it, and wrote the story the way I really wanted to write it, the difference was night and day.

Read as much as you write. It's like on the job training. Read everything-even genres you don't like. You never know when you you may end up writing in that hated genre. Example: I hated westerns-I just never liked them, so imagine my surprise when the first novel I wrote was a western!

Don't be lazy: do research. If you're writing a period piece, make sure you get the details right. Readers will know when you're fudging. So will editors.

Talk to other writers, go to conventions. Network. Make yourself known. No one will EVER understand you except another writer. Don't believe me? Try talking shop with a non writer and watch their eyes glaze over.

When you get ready to send something out, GOOGLE THE PUBLISHING COMPANY. It's just as important you find out as much about the publishers as they know about you. If a publisher has submission guidelines follow them! We put them up for a reason. If you don't you'll more than likely get rejected without even being read. It's what I do. If someone can't bother to double space their submission as I ask, how are they going to take editorial critiques?

And most important of all, HAVE FUN!
ScottColbert is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old March 19th, 2011, 11:51 PM   #33 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
A.Nonymous's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 7,061
 
Device(s): Motorola Razr M, Galaxy Tab 10.1 I/O edition
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 66
Thanked 970 Times in 704 Posts
Default

I just stumbled across this thread. I was in the process of writing a book that ended up getting shelved. It was actually a mystery based on a nightmare I had. I am madly in love with the two detective main characters and horrified by the general evilness of the villain, but the plot itself ain't moving at all. I may end up scrapping it or large parts of it.

I then started on another book that is much more promising and I'm really enjoying writing, but there is so much background material and research to be done for it. I really want to self publish it by August or so.
A.Nonymous is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old March 23rd, 2011, 04:57 PM   #34 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Bob Maxey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 4,837
 
Device(s):
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 381
Thanked 811 Times in 641 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by A.Nonymous View Post
I just stumbled across this thread. I was in the process of writing a book that ended up getting shelved. It was actually a mystery based on a nightmare I had. I am madly in love with the two detective main characters and horrified by the general evilness of the villain, but the plot itself ain't moving at all. I may end up scrapping it or large parts of it.

I then started on another book that is much more promising and I'm really enjoying writing, but there is so much background material and research to be done for it. I really want to self publish it by August or so.
Why self-publish? You should try the traditional approach because the benefits are greater.

Bob
Bob Maxey is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old March 24th, 2011, 11:56 AM   #35 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
A.Nonymous's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 7,061
 
Device(s): Motorola Razr M, Galaxy Tab 10.1 I/O edition
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 66
Thanked 970 Times in 704 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Maxey View Post
Why self-publish? You should try the traditional approach because the benefits are greater.

Bob
How are the benefits better? I confess I honestly don't know. I know if I self-publish then I can promote the book as I want to promote it. I can price it how I want to price it. I don't lose the rights to my book or my name. I have the potential to make more money if the book is quality. I read an article recently where some author who has published a couple of books already turned down a half a million dollar deal for his next book in order to self publish. It seems like a huge, gigantic hassle to do traditional publishing. If I do self-publishing, I can publish right after I'm done instead of waiting several months and maybe even a year before publishing.
A.Nonymous is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old March 24th, 2011, 01:21 PM   #36 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Bob Maxey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 4,837
 
Device(s):
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 381
Thanked 811 Times in 641 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by A.Nonymous View Post
How are the benefits better? I confess I honestly don't know. I know if I self-publish then I can promote the book as I want to promote it. I can price it how I want to price it. I don't lose the rights to my book or my name. I have the potential to make more money if the book is quality. I read an article recently where some author who has published a couple of books already turned down a half a million dollar deal for his next book in order to self publish. It seems like a huge, gigantic hassle to do traditional publishing. If I do self-publishing, I can publish right after I'm done instead of waiting several months and maybe even a year before publishing.
There are those stories about self-published books going mainstream but do not count on a publisher finding you and making an offer.

Compared to traditional publishing, yes, it is a "hassle." But the rewards are far greater and you do not loose any rights to your book or your name. It depends upon the contract you sign. Lots of things in those contracts you might find objectionable, like loosing merchandising or movie rights and the potential that comes with that end of the deal.

But those contracts are not set in stone. Once you sell your book to a publisher, you will find little problem finding an agent. And remember this, you do not absolutely need an agent to sell a book; they are there to help you create a great book and avoid being screwed or taken advantage of by a publisher.

For example, JK's 'Harry Potter' books generated hundreds of millions of dollars from action figures, games, and movies. So those rights were important.

As for earnings potential, who is to say. A very tiny fraction of self-published boos go anywhere. And to be fair, not every traditionally published book does gangbusters, either. Lots of failures with both methods. You are often able to get an advance which industry averages put at about 8-15 grand. That is far more profit than the vast majority of self-published books earn.

There are far more issues and problems and dangers with self-publishing than I have time to discuss. Just think about both methods.

Bob
Bob Maxey is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old March 24th, 2011, 01:46 PM   #37 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
A.Nonymous's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 7,061
 
Device(s): Motorola Razr M, Galaxy Tab 10.1 I/O edition
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 66
Thanked 970 Times in 704 Posts
Default

Personally, I would enjoy a discussion of the pros/cons of self-publishing. I think it could net some valuable information.

I'm not expecting to get rich off my book. I'm not expecting to sell more than a few hundred copies to be honest and that's probably being ambitious. I just want to get my work out there where people can read it. From what I have read, publishers get literally hundreds of submissions every single day. If I submitted a draft to them today, it might literally take 6 months to a year before they even read it. Even then, there's no guarantee it's going to be what they are looking for and that's fine. I don't want to wait a year to find out if I'm going to be published or not. Even if they accept the draft, the editing process could easily drag on 6-8 months. It might be a year and a half from the time I submit to the time the book comes out. Are publisher's going to promote a brand new author very heavily? I doubt it and I can't blame them. I can self-publish for next to nothing. I would be extremely interested in knowing the pros/cons of both. I'm far from an expert on the subject.

My goal is simply to get the book out there at minimal cost to me in terms of hassle. I'm not expecting to sell 50 million copies or make any sort of best seller's list. I don't want my name plastered on billboards. I simply want to write something that will make a reader, any reader think.
A.Nonymous is offline  
Last edited by A.Nonymous; March 24th, 2011 at 02:13 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old March 28th, 2011, 02:28 PM   #38 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 121
 
Device(s): Bionic
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 40
Thanked 17 Times in 15 Posts
Default

Edit: lol, Just noticed OP's date. Oh well.

Here's some general advice.


1. Write till you finish your first draft. Set a realistic word count goal for every week and finish it. Write at your own pace, but keep writing.

2. Don't worry so much about cliches, grammar, whether or not it makes any sense. Focus on getting the words down.

3. Let it sit for a while until you can look at it again with fresh eyes, then edit or rewrite depending on its needs. Repeat as necessary. Do not dare send off a first draft to an agent or publisher, expecting it to be accepted.

4. Make sure you keep in mind your genre word counts when revising your manuscript. For instance, publishers don't like seeing anything above 120k for an epic fantasy. Yes, yes, many epic fantasies break that, but it's better to stick with the rules until you understand how to break them.

5. Once you no longer see any problems with your work, it might be wise to get a few beta readers. You can find them at the Absolutewrite forums posted above.

Things to keep in mind.

1. If you are going the traditional commercial publishing route, then do not post any of your work online. Sure, you can probably get away with a chapter, but I simply wouldn't do it. That first chapter would be considered published, so if you posted the whole book, then you just published your work. Why would any commercial publisher want to publish something you can get for free or elsewhere?

2. Get an agent. This way you don't have to worry about Publisher's slushpiles and submitting rules. AgentQuery :: Find the Agent Who Will Find You a Publisher and http://querytracker.net/ are good places to start.

3. Stay away from Publish America.

4. Don't worry about copyright. The moment you put the words on paper, it all belongs to you.

Self-Publishing:

1. If you've been denied for a while, then this might be the route to go, at least for one of your manuscripts. Don't expect to sell more than 100 though and don't expect for any publisher to touch your work if it's already been published (whether by your or publisher).

2. It's benefits are mainly for already established authors, who have a fanbase that will stick with them.

3. If you want to simply get your book out there, then I would still try traditional publishing first, and only self-publish once I've exhausted every single agent in my genre. You have nothing to lose.

Traditional publishing:


1. Expect around a 10k advance (money the publisher gives you up front) for one book in a popular genre. Of course this works out in different ways. If you write a trilogy for instance, you may get a 30k advance. Or you may get 6k. It depends on how big the publisher is, and how much they like your book, along with other factors.

And that doesn't take into account royalties, which is your percentage of books sold. But before that, you have to earn out your advance (as in, if you get a 10k advance, you have to earn that back from the books sold). I'm pretty sure most authors don't earn back their advance, but I may be wrong.

Of course you won't know what your advance will be until you're offered one.

2. Get an agent. A lot of publishers, when submitting directly to them, require that you don't submit to anyone else. An agent can bypass that. Basically, having an agent doesn't mean your work will be accepted by a publisher, but it definitely increases the odds.

3. Don't pay your agent anything. Money flows to the writer.

4. By going the traditional publishing route, your book will end up in stores such as B&N, Walmart, etc. And that is still where the majority of books sold comes from.

Good luck. Writing is hard. Getting published is hard. But if you understand that, then you're better off than most who finish that first draft and think it's the next Harry Potter. :P

Oh, and one last thing. A good book on writing, my fav at least, is Self-Editing for Fiction Writers. After you finish your first draft, get it, devour, apply.
GeekClass is offline  
Last edited by GeekClass; March 28th, 2011 at 02:34 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to GeekClass For This Useful Post:
Snedd (April 3rd, 2011)
Old March 31st, 2011, 11:59 PM   #39 (permalink)
Member
Thread Author (OP)
 
n0ct3m's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 419
 
Device(s): Samsung Fascinate
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 9
Thanked 60 Times in 40 Posts
Send a message via AIM to n0ct3m Send a message via MSN to n0ct3m
Default

Wow, my thread is still around. I never would have guessed that. Anyway, I'm torn at the moment and maybe you guys can help. I really would like to get something written (not necessarily to try and publish or anything, I just want to be able to say I did it) but my issue is that I can come up with a beginning and an end, but it's filling in all the in betweens that has proven to be...problematic. Perhaps I just lack the creativity to do it. Who knows /shrug.
n0ct3m is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old April 3rd, 2011, 04:57 AM   #40 (permalink)
Member
 
Snedd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 172
 
Device(s): Nexus S, Disgo Tablet
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 17
Thanked 46 Times in 37 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeekClass View Post
Get an agent. This way you don't have to worry about Publisher's slushpiles and submitting rules. AgentQuery :: Find the Agent Who Will Find You a Publisher and Free Database of Literary Agents and Publishers - Query Letter Statistics - QueryTracker.net are good places to start.
Thanks for the links. My wife's made some progress in that she's had one story published in a UK magazine (paid) and another in a flash fiction horror anthology (unpaid, writer's copy) but hasn't had any luck finding an agent.

[She has some stories here if anyone's interested]
Snedd is offline  
Reply With Quote
sponsored links
Old April 3rd, 2011, 05:04 AM   #41 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
TheCompBoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Sweden
Posts: 591
 
Device(s): Samsung Galaxy S w DarkyROM v10.1
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 4
Thanked 56 Times in 51 Posts
Send a message via Skype™ to TheCompBoy
Default

Ď am not good writing i remember in school you had to write small stories but all i remember was to sometimes take a few brakes like lie down in the couch and just try make something up and when you found the perfect one go for it! and also read the whole story through from time to time and maybe you find something you can make better!
__________________
Please check out my blogg: www.thecompboy.blogspot.com
If you want to support me please subscribe / follow the blogg!
TheCompBoy is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old April 8th, 2011, 02:26 PM   #42 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 121
 
Device(s): Bionic
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 40
Thanked 17 Times in 15 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by n0ct3m View Post
Wow, my thread is still around. I never would have guessed that. Anyway, I'm torn at the moment and maybe you guys can help. I really would like to get something written (not necessarily to try and publish or anything, I just want to be able to say I did it) but my issue is that I can come up with a beginning and an end, but it's filling in all the in betweens that has proven to be...problematic. Perhaps I just lack the creativity to do it. Who knows /shrug.
That can be such a hard question, so all I have is advice.

1. Remember that conflict is what drives a plot and character development. Your MC wants something, she doesn't get it, conflict. Your bad guy wants something, your MC doesn't want him to get it, conflict. Resolution of course being when your MC gets what she wants.

2. Don't forget the natural progression of a story. If you have bad guys running around (whether evil companies or evil wizards or a sick priest), they're going to have lives and continue being a thorn in your PoV's side when they're not being seen.

3. You may want to try outlining. It seems to work for a lot of writers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snedd View Post
Thanks for the links. My wife's made some progress in that she's had one story published in a UK magazine (paid) and another in a flash fiction horror anthology (unpaid, writer's copy) but hasn't had any luck finding an agent.

[She has some stories here if anyone's interested]
Does she only write short stories and flash fiction or is she trying to get an agent for a novel length manuscript?

Here are a few things to keep in mind if the latter is the case.

1. You need a good query. The AW forums has an area that will help her there.

2. You need to send a lot of them out. Once again, check AW to see how other people do it, but it usually starts with making a top five or ten list of your 'best' agents (those who've made sales for your type of book, etc) and sending to them first.
GeekClass is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old April 9th, 2011, 01:09 AM   #43 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Bob Maxey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 4,837
 
Device(s):
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 381
Thanked 811 Times in 641 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeekClass View Post

1. You need a good query. The AW forums has an area that will help her there.

2. You need to send a lot of them out. Once again, check AW to see how other people do it, but it usually starts with making a top five or ten list of your 'best' agents (those who've made sales for your type of book, etc) and sending to them first.
A few comments (and not everything listed is required, read the Writer's Guidelines and consider your genre):

You don't just need a good query, you need a great package.

Some things you might require is a cover letter, a chapter by chapter outline in detail, a list of prior publishing credits (NO, you do not need to be previously published, they like to know as much about the potential author as possible. If they ask, do not fret if this is your first book) a list of competing books, ideas for marketing, a list of photos and illustrations (again, it depends upon the book)

You must read the writers/contributors guidelines. These are available from your publisher and agent. And, you DO NOT need an agent to sell a book. And, the agent will likely have his or her own set of printed guidelines. You must provide whatever they want and no excuses for imperfections.

Bob
Bob Maxey is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old April 9th, 2011, 06:40 AM   #44 (permalink)
Member
 
Snedd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 172
 
Device(s): Nexus S, Disgo Tablet
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 17
Thanked 46 Times in 37 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeekClass View Post
Does she only write short stories and flash fiction or is she trying to get an agent for a novel length manuscript?
She's looking for an agent for a horror/fantasy novel which we thought had been accepted, but after working with one of the publisher's editors for a few months they lost interest. We never found out why.
Snedd is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old April 9th, 2011, 12:44 PM   #45 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 121
 
Device(s): Bionic
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 40
Thanked 17 Times in 15 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Maxey View Post
Some things you might require is a cover letter, a chapter by chapter outline in detail, a list of prior publishing credits (NO, you do not need to be previously published, they like to know as much about the potential author as possible. If they ask, do not fret if this is your first book) a list of competing books, ideas for marketing, a list of photos and illustrations (again, it depends upon the book)
A cover letter may or may not be necessary, a list of previous published works can easily go into a query letter (or pitch if you're a writer's conference), and you definitely want to write a synopsis and chapter by chapter outline before you start querying.

But you certainly don't need, nor do agents or publishers ask for, photos and illustrations.

Publishers have their own illustrators. And if you're talking about picture books, then that goes off into it's own odd world of some publishers only wanting text, others wanting dummy books (separate from the text only manuscript), and so on.

But once again, you don't need one single picture in popular YA and adult fiction, nor is it expected and I'll even go out on a limb and say that the extreme majority of publishers don't want it.

Of course the only rules that exist are those that your agent or publisher has set out, and the norms that apply to all the various methods of getting your work published.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Maxey View Post
You must read the writers/contributors guidelines. These are available from your publisher and agent. And, you DO NOT need an agent to sell a book. And, the agent will likely have his or her own set of printed guidelines. You must provide whatever they want and no excuses for imperfections.
I said above you don't need an agent. But if you do go straight to the publisher by snail mail submissions, expect two things and you won't be disappointed.

1. A slushpile that can go on for eternity.
2. The strong possibility that you can't submit anywhere else while your manuscript is in that slushpile.

And then there are writer's conferences. Costly, but possibly effective.

My original advice was only meant to see what exactly Snedd's wife has done and what she could possibly do.
GeekClass is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old April 9th, 2011, 01:15 PM   #46 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 121
 
Device(s): Bionic
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 40
Thanked 17 Times in 15 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snedd View Post
She's looking for an agent for a horror/fantasy novel which we thought had been accepted, but after working with one of the publisher's editors for a few months they lost interest. We never found out why.
OK, good. I asked that question because I was wondering if she was trying to get a collection of short stories published or something like that.

Well here's my two cents.

1. Keep writing new books. I don't recommend continuing a series for a book that's unpublished/unagented unless you're in it just for fun.

2. If an agent isn't biting the query, then chances are the query simply isn't good enough. So rewrite, get it critiqued, rewrite, get it critiqued, rewrite, so on.

But it could be because the story sounds cliche, or for any other number of reasons.

3. If you have the cash, she may want to check out writer's conferences. It's not a requirement by any means, but I just heard of an AW friend being accepted by an Publisher at one of these things, plus there are other benefits (talking to fellow writers, agents, editors, workshops, etc).

But seriously, if she's not a member at AW forums right now, she needs to be. Loads of published and writers with agents are there who can help. JA Konrath is a famous horror author (nowadays self-publishing) I can think of off the top of my head who's a member at the forums.

I even know a YA writer who had a Publisher's intern read her query in the critique section and asked for the full (this is not the norm though).

I'm not saying the forum is magic. But it's definitely a good resource.

Oh, and my whole perspective may be marred by the fact that I write YA and it's been a booming genre since Twilight. ;P

Good luck!
GeekClass is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old April 9th, 2011, 03:04 PM   #47 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Bob Maxey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 4,837
 
Device(s):
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 381
Thanked 811 Times in 641 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snedd View Post
She's looking for an agent for a horror/fantasy novel which we thought had been accepted, but after working with one of the publisher's editors for a few months they lost interest. We never found out why.
Can you tell us who this editor and his/her publisher is?

Bob
Bob Maxey is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old April 11th, 2011, 11:33 AM   #48 (permalink)
Member
 
Snedd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 172
 
Device(s): Nexus S, Disgo Tablet
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 17
Thanked 46 Times in 37 Posts
Default

Thanks for the good advice everyone. I've passed on the message about the AW site and forums.

I don't really want to get into mentioning names, or saying such and such a company did this or that, my wife knows the detail much better than me and you never know who's reading! I'm sure that whatever happened the people involved acted with the best of intentions at the time, but for one reason or another things didn't work out.
Snedd is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old September 12th, 2011, 07:37 PM   #49 (permalink)
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 21
 
Device(s):
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 2
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

stay away from tv? i think you just have to step away from writing like crazy at some points and do some outdoor activity or something, then return. everybody has creative juices flowing, it's just that most people don't have the talent to channel that into writing. g'luck!
SuaveFrog is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old November 8th, 2011, 01:08 PM   #50 (permalink)
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Macomb, MI
Posts: 19
 
Device(s): Samsung Movement, Motorola Photon 4
Carrier: Not Provided

Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Default

wow there is some really great stuff in here! I'm writing a screenplay at the moment for fun and I picked up tons of tips and great resources from reading this discussion.

i love these forums!
aldal12 is offline  
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to aldal12 For This Useful Post:
dan330 (November 9th, 2011)
Reply


Go Back   Android Forums > Android Community > The Lounge > Literature
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:25 PM.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.