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View Poll Results: do you swerve
yes 31 70.45%
no 13 29.55%
Voters: 44. You may not vote on this poll

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Old October 24th, 2010, 04:27 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Swerve for dogs on the road?

or any animal?

If I see an animal in the road, I never SWERVE. Swerving leads to losing control potentially and I'd rather take my chances going head on with a dog/cat, or even larger animal like a deer, rather than potentially rolling my vehicle. I do reduce my speed.... but if I realize I can't stop, and I'm going to hit them... straight on is better than nothing.


This is risk reward choice for me. The potential reward for swerving and missing the animal does not outweigh the potential risk associated with swerving.

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Old October 24th, 2010, 04:35 PM   #2 (permalink)
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i would of course... do so with some quick evaluation of dangers and hazards.

i have been in this situations before....

sometimes I swerve.. sometimes I hope to drive over (straddle)... sometimes its got to be...



side note.. what with all these questions ???
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Old October 24th, 2010, 04:36 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Do you have some kind of vendetta against animals? This is your what # thread?

Added: Have you had bad past experiences with pets? Perhaps you should get your own dog... or perhaps not for the sake of the dog.
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Old October 24th, 2010, 04:46 PM   #4 (permalink)
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yeah, like you always have time. You may THINK you have your 3000# vehicle under control, but you don't



my aunt one time sweved to miss a dog.... she lost control and stuck the car in a ditch (about 3 feet deep) She did this with my (then) 2 y.o. cousin strapped in a car seat and the 4 y.o. cousin seatbelted in.

I was about 12 y.o., but I remember my uncle went APESHIT ON HER (after he determined everyone was ok) Minor damage to the car but he went nuts saying "you risked BOTH YOUR KID'S safety to save a MOTHER FUC*** DOG?!?!?!?!" I remember it clear as day.... My aunt started hem-hawing some inconsequential excuse just to try and save some face, but eventually realized my uncle was right.

I had an old band director from highschool die in a few years ago over the same thing. Coming home from a gig he would do during summer times, he was on a long road in the rural part of town (notorious for deer). A deer jumped out and he swerved left onto the shoulder of the road.... he then overcorrected and rolled the truck 6 times, partially ejecting him and rolling with him hanging halfway out the window. Killed him. Ironically, he also still hit the deer and it had to be put down.

I bet he thought he had it under control right up until the point that he rolled it. Vehicles are designed to protect you from head on, even directly from the side. They are not so effective protecting you during rolls
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Old October 24th, 2010, 05:50 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Buy comprehensive insurance.... You don't have to swerve for anything

I have totaled 3 vehicles hitting animals. I consider myself a VERY competent driver (I have a class A CDL) but would never swerve in the name of saving an animal. If you hit a dog in the road, the owner of the dog is at fault, and can legally be prosecuted to pay for the damages. While it may sound unkind, that is the law (at least here in NY). There are leash laws for a reason, least of all the fact that they could get hit... What if it wandered off the property and bit someone? I am a dog lover, but have the firm belief that they need to be trained or contained.
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Old October 24th, 2010, 05:57 PM   #6 (permalink)
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IF I can safely miss the animal, I will. If I can't, that sucks. I'm a decent driver with some competive experience under my belt (3 season of rally-cross), so I'm pretty good at controlling the car in adverse situations, but on the other hand, I'm not going to try to throw it into a sideways 4-wheel drift into the opposite lane to miss the animal either. I like animals (I have 3 cats and volunteer 2 hours a week for the Humane Society), but I'm not going to risk myself or someone else to save an animal.

And yeah, what is with all your animal threads here all of a sudden? Did you recently get raped by your neighbors dog or something? Seems you want to kill and eat everything all of a sudden. Very odd....
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Old October 24th, 2010, 06:00 PM   #7 (permalink)
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just my opinion;
never swerve, slow down if you can, hit it if you cant help it.

ive driven since i was 14 (legally) and im 32 now accident free. (thank God).
ive even run over a little girls puppy in the road right in front of her, was terrible but beats a roll over.
i drove a flatbed semi over the road for two years.

think of two pennys by each of your tires, they represent traction.
if you brake hard then that takes away a penny each from your front tires leaving only one penny at each front tire for traction.
if you swerve that takes away a penny each from the front tires for the traction to turn that fast.
if you do both at the same time, guess what? you just ran out of traction.

top that putting a something thousand pound vehicle into an unexpected, unprepared for swerve shifts weight to fast and asks for a roll over or worse (leaving the road or staying on).
--------------------------
on a different note for rigs;

(involving head ons and not animals).

when i drove a rig (think 80,000 lbs.) they trained us that if someone came into your lane and you couldnt stop, do not swerve, hit them.
sounds bad but if your pulling a trailer with 50,000 lbs. of cargo chained to it its safer for the other people around you not to swerve and throw that trailer or cargo around the roadway.

now of course in this case we're talking about a rig vs. a car/truck.
if i were driving a car/truck i probably would very seriously considering heading off the right side of the road to avoid a head on with another driver.
but i wouldnt go left, the chances are to high of the other driver realizing their mistake and coming back into their lane and still having a head on.
-------------------
anyway, in my opinion; make animal meat.
 
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Old October 24th, 2010, 06:05 PM   #8 (permalink)
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to put this simply;
if you are a swerver; you value the animals life more then your own or other drivers around you.
(in my opinion).
 
Old October 24th, 2010, 06:24 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by faber78 View Post
to put this simply;
if you are a swerver; you value the animals life more then your own or other drivers around you.
(in my opinion).
I swerve if I'm able to and based on extremely quick judgments. Obviously, I'm not going to swerve so much that I roll over and risk dying or swerve into another lane and hit an incoming car, which can definitely get me and the others killed. If I CAN swerve, then why not? It would save the life of a creature.

I value the lives of animals but not more than my own or any other driver around me. It's incorrect to judge that way.

Side note: What would happen if a dog that one loves is in the street? Would one act differently? If you have never loved a dog, then you can't understand.
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Old October 24th, 2010, 06:46 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vihzel View Post
I swerve if I'm able to and based on extremely quick judgments. Obviously, I'm not going to swerve so much that I roll over and risk dying or swerve into another lane and hit an incoming car, which can definitely get me and the others killed. If I CAN swerve, then why not? It would save the life of a creature.
that's probably how my dead band-director justified it too.

Quote:
I value the lives of animals but not more than my own or any other driver around me. It's incorrect to judge that way.
I don't think you value it more, rather, you cross the line of negligence when you THINK you can make a determine the safety of said manuever in a split second.

Quote:
Side note: What would happen if a dog that one loves is in the street? Would one act differently? If you have never loved a dog, then you can't understand.
I have had pets, loved them as pets (did not equate them to a baby or anything) but if I'm in my banddirector or aunt's position.... I would try to stop (decelerate or brake) and drive straight. I had a big dog too.

I will swerve for kids or humans, not animals.
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Old October 24th, 2010, 06:50 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by faber78 View Post
just my opinion;
never swerve, slow down if you can, hit it if you cant help it.

ive driven since i was 14 (legally) and im 32 now accident free. (thank God).
ive even run over a little girls puppy in the road right in front of her, was terrible but beats a roll over.
and beats swerving and running her over because in the split second you have to decide, you don't see her on the side of the road.

Quote:
i drove a flatbed semi over the road for two years.

think of two pennys by each of your tires, they represent traction.
if you brake hard then that takes away a penny each from your front tires leaving only one penny at each front tire for traction.
if you swerve that takes away a penny each from the front tires for the traction to turn that fast.
if you do both at the same time, guess what? you just ran out of traction.

top that putting a something thousand pound vehicle into an unexpected, unprepared for swerve shifts weight to fast and asks for a roll over or worse (leaving the road or staying on).
--------------------------
on a different note for rigs;

(involving head ons and not animals).

when i drove a rig (think 80,000 lbs.) they trained us that if someone came into your lane and you couldnt stop, do not swerve, hit them.
sounds bad but if your pulling a trailer with 50,000 lbs. of cargo chained to it its safer for the other people around you not to swerve and throw that trailer or cargo around the roadway.

now of course in this case we're talking about a rig vs. a car/truck.
if i were driving a car/truck i probably would very seriously considering heading off the right side of the road to avoid a head on with another driver.
but i wouldnt go left, the chances are to high of the other driver realizing their mistake and coming back into their lane and still having a head on.
-------------------
anyway, in my opinion; make animal meat.

makes sense to me
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Old October 24th, 2010, 07:23 PM   #12 (permalink)
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im going to swerve I feel the animal me and any one around me is equal. Now im not talking handbrake flick the car sideways swerve. Im talking slow down as much as possible judge my surroundings and turn to avoid the animal. ill great a few sudden sounds to try and startle the animal.

I dont care if I total my car by running it into a ditch I have insurance for that. if I injure myself thats my fault i take blame.
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Old October 24th, 2010, 08:25 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by mcatdtDROID View Post
that's probably how my dead band-director justified it too.



I don't think you value it more, rather, you cross the line of negligence when you THINK you can make a determine the safety of said manuever in a split second.



I have had pets, loved them as pets (did not equate them to a baby or anything) but if I'm in my banddirector or aunt's position.... I would try to stop (decelerate or brake) and drive straight. I had a big dog too.

I will swerve for kids or humans, not animals.
couldnt have put it better....^
 
Old October 24th, 2010, 08:35 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcatdtDROID View Post
that's probably how my dead band-director justified it too.

I don't think you value it more, rather, you cross the line of negligence when you THINK you can make a determine the safety of said manuever in a split second.

I have had pets, loved them as pets (did not equate them to a baby or anything) but if I'm in my banddirector or aunt's position.... I would try to stop (decelerate or brake) and drive straight. I had a big dog too.

I will swerve for kids or humans, not animals.
Perhaps the death of your band director is an underlying cause of your exhibited dislike for animals? Also I would recommend assuming that is what your band director thought and flying with it. I'm deeply sorry for the death of your band director and your aunt. It's a tragedy that was a mistake.

When it happens, I'll let my instincts and whatever else take control. If I find myself so shocked and surprised that I just try to slam on the brakes, then let that be. If I find myself with plenty of time (as in like seeing the animal from a distance), then I can quickly think of what to do. That is not negligence. Don't underestimate the power of the human brain.

It seems to me that you tend to lack compassion for animals from your posts.
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Old October 24th, 2010, 08:46 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vihzel View Post
I swerve if I'm able to and based on extremely quick judgments. Obviously, I'm not going to swerve so much that I roll over and risk dying or swerve into another lane and hit an incoming car, which can definitely get me and the others killed. If I CAN swerve, then why not? It would save the life of a creature.

I value the lives of animals but not more than my own or any other driver around me. It's incorrect to judge that way.

Side note: What would happen if a dog that one loves is in the street? Would one act differently? If you have never loved a dog, then you can't understand.
i started to write a response, but really the other guy did it perfect.
i hope you reconsider your beliefs in your driving ablility and your ability to predict situations on the road.

i have covered many many miles and im not speaking out my butt, this is experience talking. a lot of it.

ive seen so many accidents that i stopped even looking after a while.
ive seen a lot of crap on the road i dont even want to get into.
your commute to work will be the most dangerous thing you do all week.
please be safe out there.

here are some things to think about that people dont do often enough (again, my opinions; i take no responsibilities).

- signal BEFORE you change lanes. if people dont make room for you, throwing on the signal and swerving over is not the answer. signal ahead of your lane change and come over confidentially but slowly.

-always check your blind spot. laziness causes accidents and kills motorcyclists.

- scan your surroundings constantly. if your eyes arent moving your a lazy driver. look as far down the road as you can and back. side to side. check mirrors. if you go into a curve you should have scanned down your path around the curve as far as you can see already. looking for cars on the shoulder or whatever. your peripheral vision will cover you up close as you look down the road.

-DO NOT be a sheep. stop staring at the bumper of the car in front of you. dont just follow them. i watch people go through our barricades all the time. one will go and the other will follow. you should know better then to think other people have common sense. use your own.

- LEAVE MORE SPACE. you are in a moving vehicle. leave enough space to react between you and the vehicle in front of you. this one is the biggest accident causer.

- dont play with your toys, yell at your kids, fix your hair, put on your make up, talk on the phone. driving is one of those odd tasks that requires more effort then people realize to do right, yet doesnt require much effort to do....and yet a split second of distraction and everyone is going to a funeral.

- speeding and rushing. sorry your late. GET YOUR ASS OUT OF BED SOONER. and get a load of this; i can tell you from experience that even when your driving hundreds of miles....5 mph. will not get you there that much sooner, let alone the distance the normal person is going. top that, oddly enough when your in town....sometime get in the slower lane and when the light ahead of you goes red, let off the gas and just cruize easy to the light....you'll find while everyone else is wearing their brakes and burning their gas stopping and starting fast....you are catching the light they turned green and going on by them or going much easier on your vehicle. and still getting to the same place the same time as they are, if not sooner. (i love taking it easy and passing on by the guy that blew by me in a big hurry and is sitting at the light as it goes green....lol).

- walk around your vehicle before you drive it, kick the tires.
yes, kick the tires. if your gonna be to lazy to check them, kicking them will give you some idea if they are low on air....you can feel a slight difference. plus walking around helps you notice lights out, things behind the vehicle, leaking fluids.

- wear your seatbelt. (sadly, this is where i fail).

im gonna stop now.

if you took anything from this, take these especially;
more space, scan with your eyes on down the road and around...., signal your intentions, slow down (you'll get there the same time- leaving early is the awnser to your tardiness), seatbelt, dont be a sheep.

think i didnt need to say all this cause everyone already knows and so do you? think again.

again, just my opinions. ive been wrong before. you make your own decisions and take this for what you want from it or think about it.
 
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Old October 24th, 2010, 08:50 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Perhaps the death of your band director is an underlying cause of your exhibited dislike for animals? Also I would recommend assuming that is what your band director thought and flying with it. I'm deeply sorry for the death of your band director and your aunt. It's a tragedy that was a mistake.

When it happens, I'll let my instincts and whatever else take control. If I find myself so shocked and surprised that I just try to slam on the brakes, then let that be. If I find myself with plenty of time (as in like seeing the animal from a distance), then I can quickly think of what to do. That is not negligence. Don't underestimate the power of the human brain.

It seems to me that you tend to lack compassion for animals from your posts.
if you had enough time to predict your swerve or carefully drive around....then you had enough time to stop.

i think the question was more stated for the sudden response situation.
 
Old October 24th, 2010, 08:56 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Good post Faber, well put.
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I have not read this entire thread, but here is my .02:

This is one of those questions with no definitive answer. There are a myriad of things that come together in one of these situations that should affect how you react.

1. What kind of animal is it? If it's a squirrel, obviously you're not going to do any damage to your car if you run its tail over. If it's a deer, you risk having an animal come through your windshield, airbag deployment, fire (a friend of mine hit a deer at 60 mph, came to a stop, got out thinking everything was ok, and watched his car burn to a crisp) loss of control as a RESULT of hitting the deer due to damage, etc...

2. What kind of car are you driving? My friend totaled his Dodge Neon hitting a deer. If you drive a truck, you probably aren't going to do that much damage when it bounces off your steel bumper. If you drive a Lotus, you are going to destroy the entire plastic front end and probably end up with a deer in your face.

3. What are the road conditions like? Is it wet out? Is it snowy? Do you have room to swerve around safely? Are you surrounded by cars? Is there a guardrail immediately to your right, and a box-full of kittens on your left? I'd still rather swerve to avoid a dog even if I skid out if all it means is some flat spots on my tires if I have another two lanes on my right.

4. How much time do you have to avoid it?

5. How competent are you of a driver. I realize this, in itself, is a very subjective question, as everyone considers themselves a good driver, but I think you know what I mean. If you are an 80-year-old grandma, I would hope you wouldn't swerve for a dog (assuming your saw it at all...) because that probably wouldn't end well. Pretty sure Michael Schumacher will just go ahead and swerve since he knows he can handle his vehicle. I personally feel comfortable swerving fairly aggressively for something in my own car (not necessarily in a car I don't normally drive.) I make it a point to learn the limits of my car because I feel much more comfortable driving a vehicle when I know what it can do and how it will react.

I could go on and on. To TRY and answer your question, however, most of the time I try and avoid hitting an animal as long as there are no other vehicles in my immediate vicinity. Partly because I feel I can do so safely, and partly because I really don't want squirrel guts in my wheel wells...

Quote:
Originally Posted by faber78 View Post
if you had enough time to predict your swerve or carefully drive around....then you had enough time to stop.

i think the question was more stated for the sudden response situation.
And to add to this, anyone who I would consider a competent driver, should be able to (on a given road surface) swerve and know more or less what to expect from his vehicle. YES, I KNOW, there are other factors to consider (oil on the road, sinkholes, children in strollers and landmines) BUT if you know your car like I believe anyone who drives SHOULD know their car, you should be able to react and swerve around an unexpected obstacle and at least KNOW what your car is going to do. What I mean is, if you were taken to a big open runway, and sent down it at 60 mph and told to swerve at a random point, ignoring any other factors, on this giant empty road surface, I would hope you would be able to have a rough idea of how your vehicle would react.

Unfortunately, by my logic, 97% of people on the road should have their driver's licenses revoked...
...gotta love America's stringent road tests.

LASTLY (and most importantly) this all goes under the assumption that your reaction in the real world will be anything other than instinct. If you suck at driving, your reaction will probably be entirely wrong. If you're a competent driver, hopefully your reaction will be appropriate for the situation. My one friend once told me "I feel as though I am better prepared now. I always though you had to steer in the opposite direction of the skid, but my driving instructor taught me to steer into the skid." All I could think was, "Great. Now, rather than a clueless driver steering the wrong way and spinning out, we are going to have a "skilled" driver steer the right way, snap his car back around and be even more out of control since he really still has no clue what he is doing."
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Old October 24th, 2010, 09:21 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by faber78 View Post
i started to write a response, but really the other guy did it perfect.
i hope you reconsider your beliefs in your driving ablility and your ability to predict situations on the road.

i have covered many many miles and im not speaking out my butt, this is experience talking. a lot of it.

ive seen so many accidents that i stopped even looking after a while.
ive seen a lot of crap on the road i dont even want to get into.
your commute to work will be the most dangerous thing you do all week.
please be safe out there.

here are some things to think about that people dont do often enough (again, my opinions; i take no responsibilities).
Was this lesson just for me? or for everyone? It was great, but I don't understand the intent of this. I could've written all of that out (well besides the kicking the tires... I never do that since my indicator works and I know that I'm not supposed to always trust it).

I already do everything that you mentioned (again, aside from kicking tires) already, especially signaling and checking blind spots. The fastest I go is 5mph above the speed limit because I know that anything faster than that can get you pulled over but for the most part, you wont be if you stay within 5mph above the suggested speed limit.
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Old October 24th, 2010, 09:32 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Was this lesson just for me? or for everyone? It was great, but I don't understand the intent of this. I could've written all of that out (well besides the kicking the tires... I never do that since my indicator works and I know that I'm not supposed to always trust it).

I already do everything that you mentioned (again, aside from kicking tires) already, especially signaling and checking blind spots. The fastest I go is 5mph above the speed limit because I know that anything faster than that can get you pulled over but for the most part, you wont be if you stay within 5mph above the suggested speed limit.
for everyone, including you....
sort of turned into a lesson instead of a response. though spurred by my concern for your possible over security in your driving abilities and thought process as i took it from your response....that you could decide in a split second if it was safe to swerve or not....
but for everyone. (including me).
 
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Old October 24th, 2010, 09:45 PM   #21 (permalink)
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I swerved for a skunk once and lost control of the vehicle. It literally almost killed me and my fiance. I wound up in a coma for 3 weeks. So no, I hit everything now. I do try to slow down though
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Old October 24th, 2010, 09:45 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Was this lesson just for me? or for everyone? It was great, but I don't understand the intent of this. I could've written all of that out (well besides the kicking the tires... I never do that since my indicator works and I know that I'm not supposed to always trust it).

I already do everything that you mentioned (again, aside from kicking tires) already, especially signaling and checking blind spots. The fastest I go is 5mph above the speed limit because I know that anything faster than that can get you pulled over but for the most part, you wont be if you stay within 5mph above the suggested speed limit.

I think in this day and age, people don't understand what a complicated piece of machinery a car really is. We are a service economy, and no one works on their vehicle anymore, and by default don't understand them. His point (I think) was to just be AWARE of your car. It could save your life, or the life of others. I can't count the number of times I have seen a car driving down the interstate at 60+ mph, with a flat, or nearly flat front tire. That scares the crap out of me, because if you don't notice or care that you have a flat, you should not even have your license. Every person who gets their license should be required to spend an afternoon riding around in a tractor trailer. It would be an eye opening experience for a lot of people.
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Old October 24th, 2010, 09:50 PM   #23 (permalink)
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I swerved for a skunk once and lost control of the vehicle. It literally almost killed me and my fiance. I wound up in a coma for 3 weeks. So no, I hit everything now. I do try to slow down though
EXACTLY.... Glad you got the second chance with life.
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Old October 24th, 2010, 10:01 PM   #24 (permalink)
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I think in this day and age, people don't understand what a complicated piece of machinery a car really is. We are a service economy, and no one works on their vehicle anymore, and by default don't understand them. His point (I think) was to just be AWARE of your car. It could save your life, or the life of others. I can't count the number of times I have seen a car driving down the interstate at 60+ mph, with a flat, or nearly flat front tire. That scares the crap out of me, because if you don't notice or care that you have a flat, you should not even have your license. Every person who gets their license should be required to spend an afternoon riding around in a tractor trailer. It would be an eye opening experience for a lot of people.
^so true....
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EXACTLY.... Glad you got the second chance with life.
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if everyone could sit in a semi for awhile and ride a motorcycle, man what a difference it would make....
i dont trust anyone on the road, but i know most semi drivers and motorcyclist have a clue....and i hold them to a higher standard of expectations.
 
Old October 24th, 2010, 10:02 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Perhaps the death of your band director is an underlying cause of your exhibited dislike for animals? Also I would recommend assuming that is what your band director thought and flying with it. I'm deeply sorry for the death of your band director and your aunt. It's a tragedy that was a mistake.

nah, I couldn't stand the prick.... I became the musician I am DESPITE of him, not because of.... My buddy (who became a band director since graduation) asked me if I was going to attend the funeral with him. I laughed. There are about 50 other teachers I have had in my life that I would go to LONG before I would go to my band director's. He had also just been fired for getting pulled over with a joint in his car, they got a search warrant and searched his house and found a mother load. Tragic end to a pathetic life of banging highschool girls, doing drugs, and just being a prick to the kids who didn't do the same. But, with all that said, a lot can be learned from his pathetic demise.... one is, if you're a teacher, don't smoke pot, and if you see a deer in the road while doing 60 mph, you take it on head on.



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When it happens, I'll let my instincts and whatever else take control. If I find myself so shocked and surprised that I just try to slam on the brakes, then let that be. If I find myself with plenty of time (as in like seeing the animal from a distance), then I can quickly think of what to do. That is not negligence. Don't underestimate the power of the human brain.

It seems to me that you tend to lack compassion for animals from your posts.
I simply value human life over animal life. I'm willing to bet my band director's two kids wish he just hit the damn deer head on.

I think you overestimate your driving ability. that you can keep control of your 3000# vehicle at 60 mph on an uneven surface, and that you won't snatch the wheel when you try to come back on the road and shoot across both lanes and hit a telephone pole. And like the guy who just posted his story of almost killing him and his fiance because he thought he could control it while avoiding a skunk.
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Old October 24th, 2010, 10:08 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Swerve, within my capabilities, and in accordance with the road conditions.

Every situation is unique, to have a hard and fast rule that you don't swerve, is as dangerous as swerving regardless.

Judgement and control makes you a good driver, not any pre-conceived plan based on the value of the various objects that might just appear in front of your vehicle.
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Old October 24th, 2010, 10:14 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Swerve, within my capabilities, and in accordance with the road conditions.

Every situation is unique, to have a hard and fast rule that you don't swerve, is as dangerous as swerving regardless.

Judgement and control makes you a good driver, not any pre-conceived plan based on the value of the various objects that might just appear in front of your vehicle.
the most constant thing you can count on is going straight ahead. you can not make sound decisions about road conditions, etc in the blink of an eye. If you do, it's just a matter of time before you get in a wreck.... good luck in your rollover
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Old October 24th, 2010, 10:23 PM   #28 (permalink)
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the most constant thing you can count on is going straight ahead. you can not make sound decisions about road conditions, etc in the blink of an eye. If you do, it's just a matter of time before you get in a wreck.... good luck in your rollover
You sound like the kind of person I do NOT want driving behind me...

As for making sound decisions about road conditions in the blink of an eye, this is something any good driver does many times a second whenever they are behind the wheel... if you just slam on the brakes whenever something pops out in front of your car, you really haven't got a good grasp on the idea of "reacting to the situation at hand."
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Old October 24th, 2010, 10:30 PM   #29 (permalink)
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You sound like the kind of person I do NOT want driving behind me...

As for making sound decisions about road conditions in the blink of an eye, this is something any good driver does many times a second whenever they are behind the wheel... if you just slam on the brakes whenever something pops out in front of your car, you really haven't got a good grasp on the idea of "reacting to the situation at hand."
that assumes you are a good driver.... One thing is for sure.... I have never met anyone that says "yeah, I'm not a good driver" Everyone thinks they are good, no matter how many wrecks they have been in, or how many tickets they have had.



you would rather be in front of me than behind me.... I have never been in any wrecks, never got a ticket and I never tailgate. Plenty of reaction time and that has helped me avoid having to make those split second decisions that have cost my band director his life.


But, I'd rather hit you straight up the ass (dang, now I DO sound like Vihzel) then to hit the shoulder of the road
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Old October 24th, 2010, 10:35 PM   #30 (permalink)
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that assumes you are a good driver
That was my point. If you ARE a good driver, you will be able to judge and react accordingly. People who suck at driving simply slam on the brakes and scream.

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But, I'd rather hit you straight up the ass (dang, now I DO sound like Vihzel) then to hit the shoulder of the road
Really? Because given the chance I will probably put my car into a ditch if it avoids rear-ending someone (assuming the ditch isn't lined with C-4...) Firstly to avoid injuring anyone other than myself, and second because if I was in a situation where I would rear-end someone, odds are I wasn't driving smartly.
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Old October 24th, 2010, 11:01 PM   #31 (permalink)
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That was my point. If you ARE a good driver, you will be able to judge and react accordingly. People who suck at driving simply slam on the brakes and scream.
is that how you really picture it? Far from it... it's just simple understanding that you have the most control going straight forward, on the pavement, not heading off in a 45* angle on an uneven shoulder doing 60 mph.



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Really? Because given the chance I will probably put my car into a ditch if it avoids rear-ending someone (assuming the ditch isn't lined with C-4...) Firstly to avoid injuring anyone other than myself, and second because if I was in a situation where I would rear-end someone, odds are I wasn't driving smartly.

the way I look at it, the telephone pole I hit, the tree I wrap my bumper around has no 'give', the back of your car does.... I also figure you are protected by your vehicle, unlike the little kid on the side of the road I didn't see and ran over.

I don't care who you think you are, you can't control your car like you think you can when you swerve off the road to avoid an animal who very rarely, gives you warning of his impending actions.


I frequently travel the road my band director died on. I periodically see deer on the side of the road. I try to be on the look out for them because of all the deer. I've even seen those on the side of the road. I slow down, sometimes 30 mph, make sure both hands are on the wheel, and foot over the brake... But I'm going straight ahead. I don't flash my lights, or honk, or do anything like that, I just make sure I'm as prepared as I can.


Funny story about my uncle and aunt. I was riding with that uncle, my brother and his gf and we drove by where my aunt did that, so we had my uncle tell the story to my brother's g/f who wasn't around to hear the story prior. My brother was driving and I asked everyone at once "if an animal comes out, do you swerve or hit it head on. Brother and uncle said "HIT IT" (my brother actually said "hit it like Dale earnhart at 230mph but I digress, lol) his g/f said "swerve" that's when they told her the story. But just as soon as they got done telling her the story, an oppossum shot out from the side and shot across the road. My brother ran the bastard over and his g/f started crying and yelling at him. He told her to STFU and asked if she heard any of the story they just told her. I mean, we had JUST got done with the story when it happened.


But, she's like most on here, they think they have everything under control and believe animals have souls based on their cuteness levels
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Old October 24th, 2010, 11:15 PM   #32 (permalink)
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i would swerve for a dog (preferably a golden retriever), but not for a cat. they have 9 lives already.
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Old October 24th, 2010, 11:22 PM   #33 (permalink)
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is that how you really picture it? Far from it... it's just simple understanding that you have the most control going straight forward, on the pavement, not heading off in a 45* angle on an uneven shoulder doing 60 mph.
The problem is you seem to be under the impression that when I say "judge the situation" that I mean "ALWAYS SWERVE OFF THE ROAD." What I mean to say is that you should not have this pre-concieved notion of not swerving. Treat the animal as you would any other object. Sure, you might not swerve for a small deer, but if you don't swerve for a large bear, just because it is an animal, well then pray the Medivac isn't too far off....


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the way I look at it, the telephone pole I hit, the tree I wrap my bumper around has no 'give', the back of your car does.... I also figure you are protected by your vehicle, unlike the little kid on the side of the road I didn't see and ran over.
Again, you seem to be making your statements based on pre-conceived notions of the conditions for this hypothetical crash. Who's to say that there aren't just two empty lanes on your right? Or just some grass. Or maybe just a guardrail you can scrape up against? I'm not advocating that you should always assume you see everything, but a good driver should have a fairly good grasp of what is around them at all times. More than once I have had people move over onto me aggressively on the road. Without even thinking I instinctively swerved into the lane on my other side. I never even checked my blind spot when I swerved. Why? Because given the situation, I did not have time. However, I knew at the time that there was a vehicle tailgating me and nobody on that side because I was aware of my surroundings. Frankly, though, I'd still rather hit a telephone pole (many of which, by the way, are designed to break away) than rear-end someone and potentially injure people.

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I don't care who you think you are, you can't control your car like you think you can when you swerve off the road to avoid an animal who very rarely, gives you warning of his impending actions.
You also seem to be under the impression that this swerve has to be a violent maneuver. I drive a Subaru Outback. It's not a Lotus, but it can handle a fairly severe swerve without getting too bent out of shape. This is because A. I have decent tires on the thing, B. I have sport struts, and C. I've done enough swerving in my car to know just how much I CAN swerve without things going horribly wrong. This isn't because I am a super-awesome-best-in-the-world driver. This is merely because I have a decent grasp of basic physics and some experience of extreme maneuvers in my car.


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I frequently travel the road my band director died on. I periodically see deer on the side of the road. I try to be on the look out for them because of all the deer. I've even seen those on the side of the road. I slow down, sometimes 30 mph, make sure both hands are on the wheel, and foot over the brake... But I'm going straight ahead. I don't flash my lights, or honk, or do anything like that, I just make sure I'm as prepared as I can.
Lol, try driving through NJ. It's terrifying. We have something like 3 deer per square foot... and that's almost not an exaggeration. It's stupid.


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Funny story about my uncle and aunt. I was riding with that uncle, my brother and his gf and we drove by where my aunt did that, so we had my uncle tell the story to my brother's g/f who wasn't around to hear the story prior. My brother was driving and I asked everyone at once "if an animal comes out, do you swerve or hit it head on. Brother and uncle said "HIT IT" (my brother actually said "hit it like Dale earnhart at 230mph but I digress, lol) his g/f said "swerve" that's when they told her the story. But just as soon as they got done telling her the story, an oppossum shot out from the side and shot across the road. My brother ran the bastard over and his g/f started crying and yelling at him. He told her to STFU and asked if she heard any of the story they just told her. I mean, we had JUST got done with the story when it happened.


But, she's like most on here, they think they have everything under control and believe animals have souls based on their cuteness levels
*sigh*

Nobody on here claims to have everything under control. But many people on here value an animal's life enough that they are willing to try and avoid squishing them as long as it does not require an insane maneuver.

I should mention that I have run over two rabbits and hit a deer with my car. One rabbit came out of the side so fast and so last-minute that I barely had time to react before I heard "THUMP! THUMP!" The second one also lept out in front of me - a bit further ahead - but at the time the road was wet and I couldn't do much other than swerve gently to the right - and the rabbit decided to go back to the right as well and... "THUMP! THUMP!"

The deer I hit was at night. It came out of a bush on the right of my car at full tilt JUST ahead of me. I was on a narrow road with trees/bushes/jungle on both sides and I simply didn't have any room to swerve so I simply laid on the brakes and managed to clip it with my left front corner (no damage to the car even though I hit it at like 30 mph.)

I have also avoided running over countless other animals with a quick swerve - swerves that never even produced a chirp from the tires - which means I was not at the limit of what the vehicle could handle.
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Old October 25th, 2010, 08:33 AM   #34 (permalink)
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One thing that I feel any driver who thinks they are good/competant in the least bit should do, is that a track course with your daily driver. and take one of those devensive driving courses. Basically get as much experience as possible in thier car they are going to own in as many extreme conditions as possible. I drive a Front wheel drive Cobalt SS, but I still take it up to the lakes every winter and do a few ice races not for the fun but so I can get used to my car in extreme conditions, and since tons of things will change from year to year I do it every year.

During the summer Ill take my car to the strips, and tracks for fun, then maybe the next week ill go with my street tires, again to get a feel for how my car is handling in potentially dangerous ROAD conditions.

Now i'm not a good drive by any means I leave that to the people who drive for a career, I would say im above average but for me its a hobby and a means to get from point A to point B, I do most if not all maintenence and repairs on my car so I can learn it as well as know whats actually done.


with that said. I am still going to "swerve" to avoid an animal. You can throw all these situations at me, but end of the day I am still going to drive the way I do and am comfortable doing so.
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Old October 25th, 2010, 09:36 AM   #35 (permalink)
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One thing that I feel any driver who thinks they are good/competant in the least bit should do, is that a track course with your daily driver. and take one of those devensive driving courses. Basically get as much experience as possible in thier car they are going to own in as many extreme conditions as possible. I drive a Front wheel drive Cobalt SS, but I still take it up to the lakes every winter and do a few ice races not for the fun but so I can get used to my car in extreme conditions, and since tons of things will change from year to year I do it every year.
You are the first person I've ever heard say this. I have always believed that whenever someone purchased a new car, they should be required to spend an hour or two on an autocross track practicing maneuvers to learn the limits of their vehicle. I do this whenever I drive a rental car - a quick swerve on the road when nobody is around and a quick panic stop. Same is true on snow. Anytime you go out on snow-covered roads, you should have a little bit of "fun" just to get used to how your car reacts in this kind of snow with your tires at their current wear level. This is defensive driving at the most basic level.
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Old October 25th, 2010, 09:47 AM   #36 (permalink)
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I think its finland (not 100% on that) that has a very intense and strict driving test, wet skid pads, slalom etc.
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Old October 25th, 2010, 10:28 AM   #37 (permalink)
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I think its finland (not 100% on that) that has a very intense and strict driving test, wet skid pads, slalom etc.
Yup! Was featured in a Top Gear episode. Finland knows how to stay alive.
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Old October 25th, 2010, 10:38 AM   #38 (permalink)
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Yup! Was featured in a Top Gear episode. Finland knows how to stay alive.

yup thats where I saw it.

/end thread hijack, now back to our regularly scheduled program
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Old October 25th, 2010, 11:04 AM   #39 (permalink)
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I don't swerve to miss animals. I will however move around them when the situation sees fit. In other words, sometimes it would be more dangerous to slam on your brakes or just hit an animal rather than cut to the left a bit and avoid it.


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I have never met anyone that says "yeah, I'm not a good driver" Everyone thinks they are good, no matter how many wrecks they have been in, or how many tickets they have had.
i know plenty of people who admit they are bad drivers


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But, I'd rather hit you straight up the ass (dang, now I DO sound like Vihzel)
WOW. That was rude, even for you.

My thread about music players gets moved to "Incredible support and troubleshooting", but that post hasn't been edited for offensive material. The mods have been a touch disappointing lately.
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Old October 25th, 2010, 12:28 PM   #40 (permalink)
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you can not make sound decisions about road conditions, etc in the blink of an eye. If you do, it's just a matter of time before you get in a wreck.... good luck in your rollover
You shouldn't HAVE to make decisions about road conditions and traffic and everything in a split second, you should be paying attention and already know all that stuff before anything happens. Scan your mirrors, know what the road you are on is like, know if there is a shoulder to drive onto, or where the nearest emergency exit from where you are is so you can get to it in an emergency. I've driven professionally for a few years, did a little amatuer off-road racing (rally-cross) and ride a motorcycle. Riding a motorcycle really makes you pay more attention to other drivers and conditions, because you HAVE to. ALWAYS make sure you have an out if you need it. If you know what you are going to do in an emergency situation, that removes the panic response.

I've been driving for 18 years and riding a motorcycle for 5. I had one speeding ticket 16 years ago, and the only real accident I've been was one where the people behind me didn't leave enough space and rear ended me. Traffic in front of me stopped quickly, and I was able to stop safely. The car behind me was able to just barely stop before hitting me, but then got pushed into the back of my car when the person behind him slammed into him.
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Old October 25th, 2010, 12:28 PM   #41 (permalink)
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If you have to have a blanket "don't swerve because otherwise I'll lose control" policy, you are just another member of the inadequately-trained driving public. If you can manage it without putting your car in a ditch, get yourself to a car-control clinic like has already been suggested, or at the very least find an empty parking lot to practice in.

If you're paying attention to your surroundings and aren't lounging with just one hand resting on the wheel you should easily be able to make very fast decisions about if a swerve is even called for, if it can be safely done, which direction it should be, and what action might need to be taken after the swerve. Take the time to find out just what your car can do without losing traction, what happens when it does lose traction, and what you need to do to regain it. If you don't feel safe doing anything but driving straight ahead I can only hope that the inevitable accident you get into involves only you and an inanimate object, not another car or pedestrian you couldn't wouldn't avoid because you were too frightened of turning your steering wheel with any vigor.

Going ahead and just plowing straight into anything in your path because you're afraid that your car has the rollover stability of a high chair is a dangerous habit to get into. One day that dog, rabbit, or deer you see out of the corner or your eye that you've already decided to go ahead and run down lest you tip over is going to be an inattentive child running after a ball.

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it's just simple understanding that you have the most control going straight forward, on the pavement, not heading off in a 45* angle on an uneven shoulder doing 60 mph.
My idea of control is being able to head of in 45* angles on uneven shoulders while still maintaining control over where I'm going. Sounds like your idea of "control" matches the cause of many airplane fatalities. The technical term is "CFIT", or Controlled Flight Into Terrain. By insisting on going straight ahead vs venturing into more unstable terrain/vehicle attitudes, all you're doing is controlling yourself right into the situations "control" is supposed to let you avoid.
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Old October 25th, 2010, 12:37 PM   #42 (permalink)
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/\ This is what I'm trying to say, he just said it better! Know your car, know the conditions around you at all times, and know how to control your car, and making a snap decision won't cause a panic.
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Old October 25th, 2010, 12:56 PM   #43 (permalink)
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I know my car... it handles taking a deer head on MUCH better than it handles a telephone pole or flipping multiple times.


I know my car... it handles rear-ending you MUCH better than it handles a telephone pole or flipping multiple times.


YOu are completely ignorant if you think you can ALWAYs prevent a rollover. It's what my band-director thought... that he could control it.

It's what the girl last summer who tried to avoid a dog thought right before she flipped her car killing herself instantly and leaving her best friend in a vegatative state

it's what my aunt thought right before she stuck her car in the ditch with her 2 infant sons while avoiding a dog.

Insurance fixes my car, your car. We are not going to die with me going straight ahead.

However, I could die if, while trying to avoid giving you whiplash, or saving a soul-less animal's life. It could kill everyone in the vehicle with me.

no chance of dieing and killing a deer or dog or rearending you vs a chance to die taking unsafe, evasive manuevers. hmmmmm, wonder which one I take
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Old October 25th, 2010, 01:09 PM   #44 (permalink)
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Yeah, I just reread my earlier post and realized it reads like I wouldn't even try to avoid an animal. Not true at all. I would do everything possible WITHOUT endangering myself or others so as NOT to hit the animal in question. The three times I did hit deer and total my cars, I was dive bombed from the side of the road. Twice they jumped from hills next to the road, and I never saw anything until my headlights were blown out. The other was during a snowstorm, and I actually wasn't driving. My friend, who was giving me a ride home, swerved sharply with a couple inches of snow on the road, lost control, spun out and went cruising into the ditch backwards at 50 mph. THAT is why I don't do anything drastic to miss animals....
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Old October 25th, 2010, 01:28 PM   #45 (permalink)
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[QUOTE=mcatdtDROID;1793225]
flipping multiple times.


flipping multiple times.


QUOTE]


how fast and reckless are you driving where your flipping multiple times?

if you are following the rules of the road you shouldnt roll more than once maybe 1.5 times.
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Old October 25th, 2010, 01:45 PM   #46 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcatdtDROID View Post
I know my car... it handles taking a deer head on MUCH better than it handles a telephone pole or flipping multiple times.

I know my car... it handles rear-ending you MUCH better than it handles a telephone pole or flipping multiple times.

YOu are completely ignorant if you think you can ALWAYs prevent a rollover. It's what my band-director thought... that he could control it.

It's what the girl last summer who tried to avoid a dog thought right before she flipped her car killing herself instantly and leaving her best friend in a vegatative state

it's what my aunt thought right before she stuck her car in the ditch with her 2 infant sons while avoiding a dog.

Insurance fixes my car, your car. We are not going to die with me going straight ahead.

However, I could die if, while trying to avoid giving you whiplash, or saving a soul-less animal's life. It could kill everyone in the vehicle with me.

no chance of dieing and killing a deer or dog or rearending you vs a chance to die taking unsafe, evasive manuevers. hmmmmm, wonder which one I take
Your way of thinking truly terrifies me.

Let me ask you this: What kind of a car do you drive?
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Old October 25th, 2010, 01:52 PM   #47 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcatdtDROID View Post
I know my car... it handles taking a deer head on MUCH better than it handles a telephone pole or flipping multiple times.


I know my car... it handles rear-ending you MUCH better than it handles a telephone pole or flipping multiple times.
You and your car both handle "none of the above" or a skid much better than either of your options, so start paying more attention to what's around you and learn how to handle a car better.


Quote:
YOu are completely ignorant if you think you can ALWAYs prevent a rollover. It's what my band-director thought... that he could control it.

It's what the girl last summer who tried to avoid a dog thought right before she flipped her car killing herself instantly and leaving her best friend in a vegatative state

it's what my aunt thought right before she stuck her car in the ditch with her 2 infant sons while avoiding a dog.
And you are completely ignorant if you think every maneuver results in a rollover or slamming into a ditch. Using the results of inexperienced drivers as an excuse to not even attempt the thing that they screwed up is poor justification at best. Before you even bring up your band director or aunt's years of driving, that doesn't matter. There are many people with 40 years of driving under their belts that are completely and utterly inexperienced in actual car control. These are the driver that find themselves choosing between running into things or swerving wildly and then having no idea how to recover.

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Insurance fixes my car, your car. We are not going to die with me going straight ahead.
Are you sure? What if you're cruising along at a legal 55 mph and an inattentive driver pulls out of a driveway right into your path? Your "no swerving -ever" policy will likely kill them and probably seriously injure you and any passengers. A driver with decent car-control skills and situational awareness would know where they could go to minimize damage or even avoid it completely.

Quote:
However, I could die if, while trying to avoid giving you whiplash, or saving a soul-less animal's life. It could kill everyone in the vehicle with me.
Only if you are not aware of your surroundings and/or have no car-control skills.

Quote:
no chance of dieing and killing a deer or dog or rearending you vs a chance to die taking unsafe, evasive manuevers. hmmmmm, wonder which one I take
Driving isn't a True/False test, there are far more options than that; most of them much better. On top of that, if you are in a position to possibly rear-end my car, you were following too close. The option I've taken personally many times over my driving career is: Swerve in the direction I know there are no obstacles and go on with my day.
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Old October 25th, 2010, 02:04 PM   #48 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcatdtDROID View Post
I know my car... it handles taking a deer head on MUCH better than it handles a telephone pole or flipping multiple times.

I know my car... it handles rear-ending you MUCH better than it handles a telephone pole or flipping multiple times.
you think rear ending someone is better than hitting a telephone pole? that's just ignorant


Quote:
Originally Posted by mcatdtDROID View Post
Insurance fixes my car, your car. We are not going to die with me going straight ahead.

However, I could die if, while trying to avoid giving you whiplash, or saving a soul-less animal's life. It could kill everyone in the vehicle with me.

no chance of dieing and killing a deer or dog or rearending you vs a chance to die taking unsafe, evasive manuevers. hmmmmm, wonder which one I take
hmm. soooo if someone was on your side of the road coming at you head on, you would just plow right through them? sometimes swerving would be safer than just hitting something. Different circumstances call for different actions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcatdtDROID View Post
We are not going to die with me going straight ahead.
I hope you're not being serious, for the sake of all drivers who share the roads with you
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Old October 25th, 2010, 02:17 PM   #49 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcatdtDROID View Post
or any animal?

If I see an animal in the road, I never SWERVE. Swerving leads to losing control potentially and I'd rather take my chances going head on with a dog/cat, or even larger animal like a deer, rather than potentially rolling my vehicle. I do reduce my speed.... but if I realize I can't stop, and I'm going to hit them... straight on is better than nothing.


This is risk reward choice for me. The potential reward for swerving and missing the animal does not outweigh the potential risk associated with swerving.
I live in the country. My average off interstate speed is 55. I swerve to miss animals on a nearly daily basis.

I've never had an accident.

I've never hit anything big enough to damage my vehicle.

It's all about situational awareness.
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Old October 25th, 2010, 02:25 PM   #50 (permalink)
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It really depends on the person, vehicle, conditions, and situation.
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